1526 is exactly why Wing not voting Math makes no sense. Why would you not be willing to lynch someone you are just assuming is scum? Especially before my lack of Elyse vote when you weren't sure on Elyse.
Wing wrote: you've been in the game from the beginning and Elyse crafted her game around you to get you to townread her, and possibly because I spent a good portion of D3 pushing you.
I wasn't even a threat to hypothetical Elysescum early in the game. I wasn't active and I haven't played a ton with her. Why would she craft her entire game specifically to me? You can't possibly believe half the shit you're spewing.
Wing wrote:Look at the game from an unbiased standpoint. If you're trying to decide which way you are leaning between me and Elyse, look at the amount of sheer man-hours I put into reading you. Calling you scum, then second-guessing my read based on your responses, scumreading you again for that claim to vote yourself, finding a scumgame where you did just that, then reading over two hundred posts of an ISO you linked me, seeing that the catchup mode and calling scumteams is a feature of your townplay, then re-assessing that and deducing that you a) wouldn't so blatantly tie your buddy Masq to a townie, and b) you wouldn't show up with Blank at five votes and ask what's the case on him if you were scum with him, and then finally coming down to you as town and Mathblade/Elyse as a scumteam. I doubt any scum player on site would be able to fake that level of read development. Even now, I had misgiving about your posting until I saw Elyse's response to me and concluded that it was Elyse/Mathblade.
This is a fair point. You've done a shit ton of research and why bother as scum? I mean for town cred obviously, but still. That's a ton of work just for "lol towncred".
Wing wrote:Contrast that with Elyse's read on you.
She's just reading you as town because she needs you as an ally.
When I posted my case on you, she pretended that I had some good points but kept townreading you encouraging me to bring up more points so it's set as a you vs me without Elyse committing to the argument. It's the easiest read ever.
You tell me to be unbiased and then say things like the bolded...
Wing wrote:Now, she's pointing out nonsensical stuff like "scumslips" when it was extremely obvious from context that I was trying to figure out which of was Mathblade's partner and that your non-hammer showed me that it was Elyse.
Scumslip is a ridiculous phrase to use there. I don't disagree with that. But the point she was making is that the only person who should see me as confirmed town is Elyse if she's even town. So saying you know I'm town is hyperbole and she matched it with hyperbole of her own. That's why I'm so frustrated. One of you (hell possibly both) is probably town and using manipulative persuasion techniques and can't own up to it. I mean it's too late now but if one of you had been like "yeah that's what I was doing, sorry", I'd probably town read that.
Elyse wrote:If you are so sure that MathBlade is scum and BB/kts are town that you're willing to consider Egg conftown by not hammering me, you should've been voting MathBlade this entire day.
^this. 100% this. Like if you (Wing) were a cop and came in with a guilty and were like "but let's lynch someone else", everyone would tell you you're bat shit crazy. Well, that seems to be about the level of confidence you are claiming with your mathblade read and yet you want to lynch Elyse.
Elyse wrote:
@EggI am willing to lynch MathBlade over Wingback today BUT Wingback scumslipped and there's a 1% chance it could be like BB or something.
I don't know. I haven't ruled out you being scum yet and I think bbmolla has more than the 1% chance you mention. Is no lynching still worth it? I feel like there's still info to be gained as much as Wing is trying to make sure there isn't (whether intentional or not). At the very least, I feel like you and I are on the same page with how late game should be played and no lynch is very standard here. I'd rather have the extra info to work with than lose the game because whoever is town in this mess can't get organized and work together.
Wait. I just realized something skimming those meta links. Were none of those games where Elyse was town? Has she not been to LYLO as town or did Wing specifically pull scum games?
To Wing's 1531:
1) Nah, you're trying too hard to fit your narrative here. It's hard to say for sure because I wasn't there, but the "one game" arguement sounds better than your "meta match" arguement. Either way though, I didn't say Elyse was town for this. Simply that I felt she was winning the arguement. And the only reason we're discussing this is because you said you needed it to read me so it's even more pointless now than it was then.
2) All semantics and as pointless as point 1.
3) Oh, ok, yeah. I get you now. But you're assuming you know what killthestory would do which I still don't like. But you seem to believe it enough that maybe you're being honest here. Hmm... If our disagreement is strictly playstyle, which I'm not ruling out, you really need to convince me of that. Don't use hyperbole or talk to me like I'm dumb because I don't want to mislynch you for the loss just because we can't see eye to eye. It's not an easy decision. Don't pretend it is.
I don't like anything about Wing's interactions with killthestory on page 62 for what it's worth. Predicting where killthestory will vote sounds like scum mindset and the "blacklist" arguement is more semantics. Even when killthestory votes Wing, the reaction to the vote is very caught off guard and it feels like scum who thought they were in control until then.
Wing, I think everyone knows what you are saying as far as lynching Elyse before Math. What Elyse, myself, and now killthestory are trying to figure out is why the hell you think it's a good idea and can't comprehend that it's not.
Killthestory's 1562 is actually a very good point. Why would mathblade make that post as scum with Elyse? I also agree with 1564 that 1563 makes no sense. And the obvious answer to 1565 is that scum opportunism exists and momentum matters.
Wing wrote:
I'm equally certain Elyse and Mathblade are scum. In fact, slightly more certain on Elyse given the N1 shenanigans where cmit tried to target her and failed. I think it could point to a scum ascetic role of some sort. Roleblocking cmit of all people seems unlikely.
Night 1 is actually worth revisiting. I forgot about it. Didn't cmit, masq, and grendel ALL claim failed N1 actions? Or was it just masq and cmit. If it was just the two, cmit being blocked does actually make some sense, especially if he said something that made it obvious he's a power role. It feels like this was all months ago for some reason and I'm very fuzzy on it.
Wing wrote:Talk to me about your read on Elyse.
I'm not willing to lynch Elyse at this time.
Wing wrote:Hoopla'a premise of a rolestopper may not be completely wrong (in which case Math would have to be that rolestopper given it would have been used on Elyse N1). In that case, lynching Math might be more optimal.
Rolestopper actually makes as much sense as roleblocker and if mathblade were to flip that, cmit's intended target (was is Elyse?) would have to be scum, right? That would make tomorrow easy.
Elyse wrote:
@EggI use hyperbole all the time. It's a habit I should probably shake. But Wingback declaring you town by not voting me uses the assumption that MathBlade must be scum. If he's making this assumption as town, then there's no reason for him to not be voting MathBlade at first. Or he knows that we are not scum together because he's scum, meaning his declaration of you as town is correct.
Hey look, the exact thing I said in this very post I'd townread if one of Wing/Elyse said it. Hmm.
So conclusion tl;dr stuff is I want to either no lynch or lynch mathblade.
Preview edit:
wing wrote:
@Egg, if you are incapable of distinguishing between someone trying to read you and someone buddying you, you need to re-assess how you are developing your reads.
If you are incapable of speaking to me like I'm a human being with a functioning brain, you need to re-assess how you are attempting to persuade me to work with you.
