Mini 515 - The Pine Barrens - Game Over!

[Rishi]

Fifth Vote Count - Day 2

ThAdmiral – 2 (mcpaltp, Bookitty)
mcpaltp – 1 (TheHermit)
Bookitty – 1 (Elias_the_thief)
Boggzie - 1 (neko2086)
Zakarum - 1 (hasdgfas)

Not voting: Boggzie, ThAdmiral, Zakarum, opie

10 alive. 6 votes to lynch.

Deadline: November 19, 11:59pm

Five votes will be enough to lynch at deadline.

[Bookitty]

correction to votecount

In post 230 I unvoted mcpaltp and voted for ThAdmiral.

Thank you.

[neko2086]

Elias and Hermit, are you still around?

[Rishi]

correction to votecount

In post 230 I unvoted mcpaltp and voted for ThAdmiral.

Thank you.

Fixed. If you want to avoid more mistakes in the future, please only use bold in your posts for voting and for getting my attention. If you want to emphasize something in your posts, I would suggest italics.

[opie]

In response to neko2086 and his vote for Boggzie:

My opinions are based on the following assumptions:

I assume ryan

did

send Boggzie a PM.
I assume that the PM was

withdrawn

before Boggzie could read it.

I could not find in ryan's posts were he flatly denied either of these claims, therefore I assume them to be facts.

This was all revealed in Post 63. Based on these facts Boggzie made the following assumption:

Now, being that Ryan and I have

no

connection other than this game, why would he PM me out of the blue? I believe the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum.

As I've said before (Post 119), I don't think Boggzie's assumption was unreasonable. Further, that assumption alone (incorrect as it was), in my opinion, is not scum behavior. Following this claim, I can't find a post were Boggzie behaves in a suspicious manner. He largely is only responding to ryan's posts.

If

Boggzie were scum, as Spider Jerusalem noted in Post 87:

If this is the case it is a series of amazing coincidencies. First is that is the existence of the PM itself. Either by pure chance Boggzie got a PM at just the correct time to try and use it against ryan, or hey took a chance and made it up whole cloth but ryan has told is that there is every possibility that he did send it. what a stroke of luck that would be. Secondly, at the exact same time that the previous event occurred ryan just happened to be already under some amount of suspicion here for other behavior, giving the opportunity for the PM bombshell to have extra effect. This just seems overall unlikely to me, if ryan had denied flatly the existence of the PM I would give this option a lot more weight. In the light that ryan has said he may have sent a PM but can neither confirm nor deny it, and has not made any denial in regards to potentially having retracted said PM. The luck necessary to stumble into this situation just seems to be to great for me to believe it happened...

And not to be the second to ressurect the ghost of Spider Jerusalem, but I agree completely with what he was says in this post.

What Boggzie got us all into on Day 1 turned out to be anti-town, but I'm not quite sure it was scummy. I think the lesson we can learn from Day 1 is not to overreact or act too quickly. Therefore, I'm not comfortable lynching Boggzie based on a misplaced assumption. His behavior that day was not otherwise scummy. I could vote for Boggzie in the future, but I would need more evidence to feel comfortable doing so. We've already lost two towns thanks to all this nonsense, I would hate to lose a third.

[TheHermit]

I am still here. However, I've been having a little trouble on my end so I haven't been able to devote time or energy to this game. Give me a day and I'll post my thoughts.

[opie]

Before someone calls me out on it. I know I have ignored Boggzie's Post 169. I'm still trying to figure out what I make of it. My opinions in Post 254 are based primarily on his conduct from Day One.

[Elias_the_thief]

I as a player have nothing against lynching townies for the gain of the town, though I dont want to get into that debate right now. However, lynching another townie to clear your own name is in no way a good reason to lynch someone that you don't think is scum. First, you're assuming that you are more valuable to the town. Second, you're assuming that by doing this youre actually clearing your name, and I feel that youre doing quite the opposite. So yeah. Scummy post. Also, if Bookitty is scum, theres lots of motivation to lynch a townie and clear herself. Not to mention her inconsistency on whether or not she got a pm from ryan.

This logic still holds true, especially since Ryan was town. So I'll put my vote back where it was yesterday.

vote: Bookitty

, with an fos for Boogzie on the side based on yesterdays logic.

Boggzie:

I don't know what scumtells you're believe in, but I don't understand how you can think someone is scum based on an unopened pm. Pushing this case based on that is fairly ridiculous. I also dont like this post:

The others will come to light, like they do in every game.

I dunno. It just sounds...off. Like he's trying to inflate a weak case by claiming to be a steller scumhunter. I always find people who claim to be great at finding scum to be suspicious, unless they have completed games to back it up (do you?).

Also, combined with the fact that he never responded to my question or my logic in defense of Ryan,

I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.

And pushed for a mislynch on little evidence (in fact, no evidence. There was no proof of what that pm was about). So Boggzie is a close second to Bookitty on my LOS.
Though I really can't believe that Ryan would do this AGAIN. He's done it so many times now. *shakes head*.

I'm here, I stand by this post. I'll try to post what I think of some others players later tonight, but for now my vote stays.

[ThAdmiral]

@ bookitty: your recent post was very illuminating. I think I have more of an understanding of why you said what you did, and as a result, am inclined to believe there may not have necessarily been any malevolent intent involved.

However I would like to correct you on one point.
When I first mentioned that I thought you may have been setting up chain lynches (in post 227) it wasn't an attempt to set up a case against you, per se, but was just something of interest that I had noted from the happenings of day one. I may or may not have pursued a line of questioning in that area if not for the rather heated response to it.

[neko2086]

Boggzie, I would really like a response from you.

[Boggzie]

Boggzie, I would really like a response from you.

Relax - I still have no i'net at home.

I don't have a defense. Keep your vote on me. If you look back it was my first or second post on D2 asking the town to vote for me because the scum will use the D1 debacle to muddy the waters and use it against us later on. I'm town, I got a PM that seemed to be for no other reason than related to this game. I wasn't Mafia, so I assumed ryan had made a mistake, and was scum. Quite clearly I was wrong.

What do I think regarding the scum's current strategy?

I think they're laying back and making cases elsewhere

besides

me because I'm an easy lynch later. "

Look what he did to us! We would have a fighting chance if it wasn't for him, he has to be scum!

" All along to that point leading folks in the wrong direction. I think the scum are the ones, currently, pushing cases on anyone except me.

I'm 100% comfortable taking the lynch to clear the minds of everyone and take a ploy, sure to be played later, out of the hands of the scum.

[opie]

My thoughts on Boggzie, in light of Post 169 (and now Post 260):

The way I see it, there are four likely scenarios:

1. Boggzie is town. He is sincere. He thinks that being lynched today really is in the best interest of the town.

2. Boggzie is town. He is disingenuous. These two posts are a reverse pyschology gambit: By claiming that the correct thing to do is to lynch him, he hopes that such a claim will cause others to hesitate in casting their votes.

3. Boggzie is scum. He made a bold claim against a townie in Day One. It worked. He is now employing a reverse pyschology gambit.

4. Boggzie is scum. He made a bold claim against a townie in Day one. It worked. He is now bussing himself, lest he implicate his fellow scum. To that end, he claims town so that he can cast suspicion on those defending him, while his scum buddies lie low.

Scenario Four is unlikely because it is very poor play. By making such a bold Day One move, a scum must presume that they will be a Day Two lynch target. I've said it before in may Day One posts, I just don't believe scum would make themselves so vulnerable on Day One. But the addition of claiming town further makes this scenario puzzling and unlikely. While this strategy may be effective for Day Two, when Boggzie is lynched all benefit is lost.

I also find Scenario Three unlikely because (and I'm being repetitive here) such a bold move is unlikely for scum to make on Day One. In addition, if Boggzie is scum, he would have to have known that he would be a lynch target in Day Two based on that actions of Day One. He is taking a gamble with the reverse pyschology gambit. Put all together, it just doesn't seem to be smart scum play.

[I've argued that a bold move on Day One by scum is unlikely. I know it's not impossible. Venturing down that road however is getting into WIFOM territory that could make my head explode. Therefore I'm sticking by the presumption that bold moves are unlikely.]

That leaves Scenario One and Two. Boggzie is town in both scenarios. I don't really know which is correct. I feel at this point both are equally likely. For voting purposes however, the result is the same.

As I've said before, I don't think Boggzie acted scummy in Day One (see my Post 254). Boggzie's Post 169 and 260 definately seem suspicious but given my analysis above, for now my suspicion is not focused on Boggzie.

Did I leave anything out? Am I glancing over something? Is there an angle I didn't include? I'd like to know.

[mcpaltp]

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.

It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.

If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.

And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?

What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie

Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.

[opie]

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan).

Agreed!!!

[ThAdmiral]

I tend to agree with something that was said earlier regarding the unlikelihood of boggzie being both scum and also receiving a pm from a townie, giving him an absolute gift of a play to use to lynch town day one.
Another thing I was thinking about is that scum generally get a town lynch day one anyway, so I don't see why a mafiate would think he would need to use such a risky gambit in the first place.

[Elias_the_thief]

It's starting to get aggravating that no one sees the sense in a Bookitty lynch...I think her scumminess is pretty obvious. I'm starting to think a Boggzie lynch may be just as good however. Honestly, whats with his defeatist attitude. "I'd be willing to take the lynch"? You had 1 vote. It's ridiculous to be talking about "taking a lynch" at that point.

[neko2086]

First of all, I'm going to

unvote Boggzie

for now, assuming that he'll want to cooperate. Also, Admiral's point about mafia getting an easy lynch on the first day makes sense. IGMEOY Boggzie, but I feel like you're a waste of time (for now anyway).

Elias has asked that we look into Bookitty's lynchability, and so I did because frankly, she's caught the attention of more than a few. First I looked at this:

I also didn't like how bookitty said a town ryan would "clear my name", although I think this has already been gone over. Also your setting up of chain lynches ("

if ryan is town, i'm definately voting boggzie tomorrow

") has also been noted.

I never said this. You put it in quotes as if I did, but that's not true. I've put up the relevant quotes. So why imply that I said that by putting it in quotes? It's not even a good fabricated quote, considering that I definitely know how to spell definitely. Anyway, a quick reread of my posts will prove I NEVER said what you quoted me as saying.

unvote; vote ThAdmiral

My reaction to this was at the time, and still is, wow, that didn't take long for her to spring a vote on him. Yes, his use of quotes is questionable, but this is more or less an OMGUS vote since she didn't first let him explain himself at all.

Then this looked a bit strange:

I think Elias's reasoning is faulty, and a bit forced

Could you explain why? It seems to me that the main reason you' dont like my reasoning is that it is against you.

Yes, that's right, in part. I know my alignment, so if you think I'm scum, then your reasoning is faulty. It looks like tunnel vision, and at this point, it seems a little forced to me.

She never explained why his vote seemed forced to her, and I was never impressed by her I-know-I'm-innocent-so-you-must-be-wrong argument (not direct quoting you, don't kill me).

But then, I looked back at this:

I'm about to do something I never expected to do, which is place a vote on someone hoping that they are town. I see no way to clear my name otherwise.

unvote; vote ryan

which caused quite a commotion. But I just have to wonder, if she were scum, would she

really

do something that stupid? The same sort of question came up with Boggzie but I figured that seeing how much support he had, he could easily get away with that. I don't see that with Boo.

The next obvious question then, is, why is Elias so anxious to get Bookitty lynched? He's almost begging us to do it. Do I think he's scum, then? Well, I don't know yet. I can't find enough evidence for a FOS. Maybe the fact that he's getting anxious, but, there aren't that many votes on her. IGMEOY for now.

What really caught my attention while looking back was mcpaltp's role in the ryanhunt. First of all, it took him a mere 48 minutes and 3 posts after the revelation of the pm to launch a vote on ryan. Then, he does this:

If I was scum, I'd bus him.



Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryan

And immediately after:

Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.

And after ryan's death:

If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.

Ok, so maybe he just feels bad, but maybe this is just a cop-out to avoid the suspicion that would fall upon him after having voted for ryan (which surprisingly hasn't really come up).

Then:

I quoted what I felt was the

spirit

of the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point you

were

attempting to set up a chain lynch.

The spirit?

I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.

Considering how well the last time I thought boggzie's arguments were apt went, I don't know if I should say this, but,

I agree, here. I don't like the lurking combined with the whole misquoting thing. I put my vote on as an exploritory measure, and I think I'll keep it on pending more contributions from ThAdmiral.

OK, now you're sounding like you just want to go with the flow. Is that a stretch? Well...

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.

It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.

If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.

And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?

What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie

Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.

OK, I know I started this, but you seemed to like the opportunity to jump on it (while making it look like it was an afterthought).

I don't feel like I have enough for a vote on you yet, mcpaltp, but definitely a big

FOS

[Elias_the_thief]

The next obvious question then, is, why is Elias so anxious to get Bookitty lynched? He's almost begging us to do it. Do I think he's scum, then? Well, I don't know yet. I can't find enough evidence for a FOS. Maybe the fact that he's getting anxious, but, there aren't that many votes on her. IGMEOY for now.

I definately wouldn't go as far as to say that I'm begging to get a Bookitty lynch, or even that I'm anxious for one. I've expressed suspicion on more then just Bookitty, but I focus most of my attention on Boo, because I feel that she has given off the strongest tells, and is most likely to be scum. Also, her lynch would tell a lot about Zaks unconsistency on her wagon. In terms of who I find scummy besides Boo, boggzie is second for his essentially evidenceless lynch hunger on Ryan, and I'm also looking at Zakarum for his inconsistency about the Boo wagon, and also the Opie-Has connection that I touched on earlier.

What really caught my attention while looking back was mcpaltp's role in the ryanhunt. First of all, it took him a mere 48 minutes and 3 posts after the revelation of the pm to launch a vote on ryan. Then, he does this:

If I was scum, I'd bus him.


Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*

Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryan

And immediately after:

Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.

And after ryan's death:

If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.

Ok, so maybe he just feels bad, but maybe this is just a cop-out to avoid the suspicion that would fall upon him after having voted for ryan (which surprisingly hasn't really come up).

Then:

I quoted what I felt was the

spirit

of the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point you

were

attempting to set up a chain lynch.

The spirit?

I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.

Considering how well the last time I thought boggzie's arguments were apt went, I don't know if I should say this, but,

I agree, here. I don't like the lurking combined with the whole misquoting thing. I put my vote on as an exploritory measure, and I think I'll keep it on pending more contributions from ThAdmiral.

OK, now you're sounding like you just want to go with the flow. Is that a stretch? Well...

Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.

It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.

If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.

And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?

What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.

##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie

Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.

OK, I know I started this, but you seemed to like the opportunity to jump on it (while making it look like it was an afterthought).

I don't feel like I have enough for a vote on you yet, mcpaltp, but definitely a big

FOS

Most of that stuff seems like wierd play to me rather then scummy play. Like, what advantage does scum have in being hypersensitive in offending people? The main point I see in there is the quick move to vote Ryan on little evidence. Now that I think about it, I'd probably rank MC higher for his jump on Boggsies case then I would rank Boggzie for presenting it.

I'm not really that suspicious of Admiral either. He was trying to get (or at least I believe he was) the gist of the posts, but got it wrong. I guess its a weak tell, but all of the people I've posted above rank higher then Admiral for me.

[neko2086]

Like, what advantage does scum have in being hypersensitive in offending people?

TheHermit actually pointed this out awhile back, but it is an appeal to emotion. If he can get sympathy, he can avoid suspicion for being so aggressive against ryan.

[Elias_the_thief]

I guess, but I still dont think it's too strong a tell. Combined with his quick jump on the Ryan wagon, he's climbed up a few spots on my LoS. I'll still keep my vote where it is however.

[TheHermit]

Right. Unfortunately, thanks to ryan, we have a Day 1 amount of information on Day 2. That sucks a lot, especially because I'm not very good at the early game. Hence all the lurking.

There have been a couple weak tells, but not anything that I can really question. For what it's worth, my gut is telling me Boggzie is town. I think ThAdmiral just made a newbie mistake. But I don't trust mcpaltp.

[Bookitty]

I'm in the process of analysing, in order, my primary scum suspects:

I will start with ThAdmiral. That's where my vote is, that's obviously my primary suspect. Missed nearly all of the Day One drama. I didn't like his manufactured quote, and there are other things that don't ring quite true:

(Note that this is AFTER we know that ryan was town)

Hasdfags voting for boggzie was a little weird, I felt. If I got a pm from someone during the mafia-talking time in a game I was in, that was unsent before I could read it, I would definitely go after them. To say that he is making something of nothing is a bit strong.

And this bit of wishywashy nonconfrontation:

Last night: spider jerusalem was killed by the mafia. This is understandable since he had a few good posts. If anything this may incriminate mcaltp as he did mention that he rather liked sj's posts (post 103), but this praise could have easily just been read by the mafia.

which looks like distancing to me, attacking and then withdrawing the attack in the same post.

And this:

I am intrigued by the opie-hasdgfas connection, as I am uneasy on both of these two, and am also following elias' attack on bookitty as she is under my suspicion as well.

Parroting of an argument by Zakarum, and never justified by either of them, despite requests to that effect. I find that more evidence of a connection than either has presented on their "opie-hasdgfas" connection.

[Bookitty]

Next up, Zakarum:

Follows Elias's vote without much comment:

QFT Very nice read Elias good call.

And then this:

Well.... does this mean Bookitty is off the hook or could she just have been trying to cover for herself by outing ryan.

which argues to me that he's not following any of the arguments, since he can't figure these out for himself. He's just trailing whoever is making the loudest arguments.

Quotes Elias in this post and then inexplicably points a finger of suspicion at two other people:

um, yeah. this bandwagon is moving WAY too fast for my liking.
As far as I see it, there is no proof of whether the PM was for replacement purposes or for the purpose of PMing a buddy. Personally, I'm inclined to think its the former, seeing as
1) He IS searching for a replacement in a game, and
2) Sending a pm to his buddy now would be daytalking, and I'm assuming we have no cheaters here. Obviously, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

That being said,

unvote

.
Also, Boo, PLEASE don't do that. He may be scum, he may not, but the fact that he sent a pm to someone that MAY have been intended for you is certainly not enough for me to think you're scum, and if the rest of the town thinks otherwise, then the quality of play in this town is kind of questionable. (aka, you should NOT get lynched based on that alone).

More later.

Very defensive hasdgfas im starting to see the connection between you and opi.

FOS: Hasdfas and opi

Which makes no sense, and is NEVER explained (unless some halfhearted comment, much later, about hasdfgas claiming Elias never defended ryan is considered an explanation). However, there is this:

I told you Neko i check the forums to much and I'm used to fast games on a different site. SO when someone goes a whole day without talking about it that to me is a long time. I did read his posts and if you look regardless if ryan was scum or not SJ was giving him a chance to explain himself like a townie should instead of pushing him and potentially fabricating a story. I'm just saying at this point we have very little to go on and this is what is standing out.

And yet he never calls out ThAdmiral for not posting, nor does he even seem to notice hasdgfas's questions.

And this series of quotes:

If you read what I said was that I mean no offence I am just trying to see what kind of a rise we can get see if anyone feels the same way or has something they wanted to add. I didn’t mean to look like I was backing off I meant to just say don’t take it personally I am just putting it out there for discussion.

I thought he was being a to apologetic. Ryan offed himself couldn't handle the pressure plus before I wrote that it had already been mentioned that it was coming off scummy by others I was just showing my agreement.

I agree with this very strongly although i will wait until Boggzie has a chance to defend himself before I place my vote. I also don't like the attacks on Thadmiral. I feel he is just a scapegoat because of so little information. Although he hasn't posted much I don't think he is scum and i think the quote was just a mistake.

Which are wishywashy and seem designed to distance even from his own expressed opinions. He defends ThAdmiral, albeit weakly, and criticises others for similar behaviours without ever noticing the inconsistency in his own position.

I think with some degree of confidence that ThAdmiral and Zakarum are likely scumbuddies.

I'll post more later, I hope.

[opie]

Wow, a couple of long posts since my last. I'm just giving everyone a heads up that I might not be able to substantively until Monday. Bookitty, neko2086, and Elias_the_thief have given me a lot to ponder over and posts to re-read and I want to be able to devote enough time to what they are saying. I'm going to try to stay active through the weekend, but it's shaping up to be a busy one, so I just wanted to give everyone fair notice.

Just a quick question for ThAdmiral. I don't think I asked it earlier and Bookitty's post just reminded me of it:

I am intrigued by the opie-hasdgfas connection, as I am uneasy on both of these two, and am also following elias' attack on bookitty as she is under my suspicion as well.

I'm not sure if you were implying this or not, or if I'm reading this wrong, but were you "uneasy" on me

before

Elias_the_thief's comments in Post 181? If so, why?

[Bookitty]

Third in a series:

The case against mcpaltp isn't quite as strong as the previous two, in my view. He makes some fairly wishywashy statements at first, seemingly leaving himself an out regarding the ryan situation:

This is day one. It would be not so bright to claim so strongly on someone unless it's a gambit or you have really great proof. This, admittedly WIFOM-y logic, coupled with ryan's OMGUS response makes me suspicous of ryan.

Then this, which just seems a little odd:

Yeah, seriously. Listen, everybody: you should never, ever vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do. If I didn't think that ryan was scum, I'd be voting for you in a heartbeat.

I wish I had two votes.

Oh, and ryan may be right, but I still think he's scum.

Elias already pointed out the directing of town opinion. Not a strong tell, but still a scumtell.

A great deal of justification of his vote on ryan. More justification than I would have thought necessary, really. And then this:

Seriously, are you a jester or something? I wish I could vote for you more than once. If you flip town, I'll have egg on my face, but as of now I am super confident in my position. I am 99.9% convinced you are scum at this point.

Then mcpaltp makes a pretty mild joke, under the circumstances, and has a fit of overreaction about it.

Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.

Which seems a bit extreme, considering the level of vitriol ryan was sharing around to everyone, and seems a bit forced to me, "like the elaborations of a bad liar", to quote someone very smart. This was before we knew ryan was innocent, and it nearly bespeaks a knowledge that ryan would come up town, and a fear that this would be seen as townie-baiting in retrospect.

Then we're into the mea culpa stuff that's been well covered. I don't see anything really scummy lately.

I think that's enough from me for now. I have a couple of other minor suspicions, but these were the most serious. As always, please correct me if I'm wrong.