ThAdmiral – 2 (mcpaltp, Bookitty)
mcpaltp – 1 (TheHermit)
Bookitty – 1 (Elias_the_thief)
Boggzie - 1 (neko2086)
Zakarum - 1 (hasdgfas)
Not voting: Boggzie, ThAdmiral, Zakarum, opie
Fixed. If you want to avoid more mistakes in the future, please only use bold in your posts for voting and for getting my attention. If you want to emphasize something in your posts, I would suggest italics.Bookitty wrote:correction to votecountIn post 230 I unvoted mcpaltp and voted for ThAdmiral.
Thank you.
As I've said before (Post 119), I don't think Boggzie's assumption was unreasonable. Further, that assumption alone (incorrect as it was), in my opinion, is not scum behavior. Following this claim, I can't find a post were Boggzie behaves in a suspicious manner. He largely is only responding to ryan's posts.Boggzie wrote:Now, being that Ryan and I havenoconnection other than this game, why would he PM me out of the blue? I believe the answer is pretty simple; he PM'd the wrong name from the list - he's scum.
And not to be the second to ressurect the ghost of Spider Jerusalem, but I agree completely with what he was says in this post.Spider Jerusalem wrote:If this is the case it is a series of amazing coincidencies. First is that is the existence of the PM itself. Either by pure chance Boggzie got a PM at just the correct time to try and use it against ryan, or hey took a chance and made it up whole cloth but ryan has told is that there is every possibility that he did send it. what a stroke of luck that would be. Secondly, at the exact same time that the previous event occurred ryan just happened to be already under some amount of suspicion here for other behavior, giving the opportunity for the PM bombshell to have extra effect. This just seems overall unlikely to me, if ryan had denied flatly the existence of the PM I would give this option a lot more weight. In the light that ryan has said he may have sent a PM but can neither confirm nor deny it, and has not made any denial in regards to potentially having retracted said PM. The luck necessary to stumble into this situation just seems to be to great for me to believe it happened...
I'm here, I stand by this post. I'll try to post what I think of some others players later tonight, but for now my vote stays.Elias_the_thief wrote:This logic still holds true, especially since Ryan was town. So I'll put my vote back where it was yesterday.Elias_the_thief wrote:I as a player have nothing against lynching townies for the gain of the town, though I dont want to get into that debate right now. However, lynching another townie to clear your own name is in no way a good reason to lynch someone that you don't think is scum. First, you're assuming that you are more valuable to the town. Second, you're assuming that by doing this youre actually clearing your name, and I feel that youre doing quite the opposite. So yeah. Scummy post. Also, if Bookitty is scum, theres lots of motivation to lynch a townie and clear herself. Not to mention her inconsistency on whether or not she got a pm from ryan.vote: Bookitty, with an fos for Boogzie on the side based on yesterdays logic.Also, combined with the fact that he never responded to my question or my logic in defense of Ryan,Elias_the_thief wrote:Boggzie:I don't know what scumtells you're believe in, but I don't understand how you can think someone is scum based on an unopened pm. Pushing this case based on that is fairly ridiculous. I also dont like this post:I dunno. It just sounds...off. Like he's trying to inflate a weak case by claiming to be a steller scumhunter. I always find people who claim to be great at finding scum to be suspicious, unless they have completed games to back it up (do you?).Boggzie wrote: The others will come to light, like they do in every game.And pushed for a mislynch on little evidence (in fact, no evidence. There was no proof of what that pm was about). So Boggzie is a close second to Bookitty on my LOS.Elias_the_thief wrote: I do not suspect Ryan much either. Ryan has a decent excuse for sending a pm in the first place, and it is completely unverifiable whether or not it was for replacement. Also, last time I saw him get this defensive, he was town (and quoted his pm, but we won't get into that). This isnt to say I think he's town; This is just to say that I dont think he's scum for either of the major tells on him so far.
Though I really can't believe that Ryan would do this AGAIN. He's done it so many times now. *shakes head*.
Relax - I still have no i'net at home.neko2086 wrote:Boggzie, I would really like a response from you.
My reaction to this was at the time, and still is, wow, that didn't take long for her to spring a vote on him. Yes, his use of quotes is questionable, but this is more or less an OMGUS vote since she didn't first let him explain himself at all.Bookitty wrote:I never said this. You put it in quotes as if I did, but that's not true. I've put up the relevant quotes. So why imply that I said that by putting it in quotes? It's not even a good fabricated quote, considering that I definitely know how to spell definitely. Anyway, a quick reread of my posts will prove I NEVER said what you quoted me as saying.ThAdmiral wrote:I also didn't like how bookitty said a town ryan would "clear my name", although I think this has already been gone over. Also your setting up of chain lynches ("if ryan is town, i'm definately voting boggzie tomorrow") has also been noted.
unvote; vote ThAdmiral
She never explained why his vote seemed forced to her, and I was never impressed by her I-know-I'm-innocent-so-you-must-be-wrong argument (not direct quoting you, don't kill me).Bookitty wrote:Yes, that's right, in part. I know my alignment, so if you think I'm scum, then your reasoning is faulty. It looks like tunnel vision, and at this point, it seems a little forced to me.Elias_the_thief wrote:Could you explain why? It seems to me that the main reason you' dont like my reasoning is that it is against you.Bookitty wrote: I think Elias's reasoning is faulty, and a bit forced
which caused quite a commotion. But I just have to wonder, if she were scum, would sheBookitty wrote: I'm about to do something I never expected to do, which is place a vote on someone hoping that they are town. I see no way to clear my name otherwise.
unvote; vote ryan
And immediately after:mcpaltp wrote:Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryanmcpaltp wrote:If I was scum, I'd bus him.
Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*
And after ryan's death:mcpaltp wrote:Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.
Ok, so maybe he just feels bad, but maybe this is just a cop-out to avoid the suspicion that would fall upon him after having voted for ryan (which surprisingly hasn't really come up).mcpaltp wrote: If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.
OK, now you're sounding like you just want to go with the flow. Is that a stretch? Well...mcpaltp wrote:Considering how well the last time I thought boggzie's arguments were apt went, I don't know if I should say this, but,Boggzie wrote:The spirit?ThAdmiral wrote:I quoted what I felt was thespiritof the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point youwereattempting to set up a chain lynch.
I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.
I agree, here. I don't like the lurking combined with the whole misquoting thing. I put my vote on as an exploritory measure, and I think I'll keep it on pending more contributions from ThAdmiral.
OK, I know I started this, but you seemed to like the opportunity to jump on it (while making it look like it was an afterthought).mcpaltp wrote:Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.
It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.
If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.
And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?
What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.
##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie
Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.
I definately wouldn't go as far as to say that I'm begging to get a Bookitty lynch, or even that I'm anxious for one. I've expressed suspicion on more then just Bookitty, but I focus most of my attention on Boo, because I feel that she has given off the strongest tells, and is most likely to be scum. Also, her lynch would tell a lot about Zaks unconsistency on her wagon. In terms of who I find scummy besides Boo, boggzie is second for his essentially evidenceless lynch hunger on Ryan, and I'm also looking at Zakarum for his inconsistency about the Boo wagon, and also the Opie-Has connection that I touched on earlier.neko2086 wrote: The next obvious question then, is, why is Elias so anxious to get Bookitty lynched? He's almost begging us to do it. Do I think he's scum, then? Well, I don't know yet. I can't find enough evidence for a FOS. Maybe the fact that he's getting anxious, but, there aren't that many votes on her. IGMEOY for now.
Most of that stuff seems like wierd play to me rather then scummy play. Like, what advantage does scum have in being hypersensitive in offending people? The main point I see in there is the quick move to vote Ryan on little evidence. Now that I think about it, I'd probably rank MC higher for his jump on Boggsies case then I would rank Boggzie for presenting it.neko2086 wrote: What really caught my attention while looking back was mcpaltp's role in the ryanhunt. First of all, it took him a mere 48 minutes and 3 posts after the revelation of the pm to launch a vote on ryan. Then, he does this:
And immediately after:mcpaltp wrote:Please disregard, that was kind of dickish. Now I feel bad-- sorry Ryanmcpaltp wrote:If I was scum, I'd bus him.
Did he just say that? Oh snap! *joke* *joke* *seriously joke*
And after ryan's death:mcpaltp wrote:Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.
Ok, so maybe he just feels bad, but maybe this is just a cop-out to avoid the suspicion that would fall upon him after having voted for ryan (which surprisingly hasn't really come up).mcpaltp wrote: If there is a consensus that I was acting inappropriately/too aggressively in pursuing someone who I thought was scummy, I'll ask to be replaced. I really don't want to ruin the fun for everyone else/break the game. Even if there is not a consensus, I'd like everybody to weigh in on maybe how I should have done that differently, if at all. I'm feeling guilty about the whole mess.
Then:
OK, now you're sounding like you just want to go with the flow. Is that a stretch? Well...mcpaltp wrote:Considering how well the last time I thought boggzie's arguments were apt went, I don't know if I should say this, but,Boggzie wrote:The spirit?ThAdmiral wrote:I quoted what I felt was thespiritof the first of your two highlighted posts.
And even though you later backtracked on this, the fact still remains that at one point youwereattempting to set up a chain lynch.
I know I'm probably the last person to be tossing accusations around, but, uh - "the spirit"? I haven't played that many games, but I've been in enough to know you can't quote "the spirit" of a post. Either someone said it, or they didn't. Your "quiet time" and this worries me. And frankly, anyone defending me right now, even to me, looks scummy.
I agree, here. I don't like the lurking combined with the whole misquoting thing. I put my vote on as an exploritory measure, and I think I'll keep it on pending more contributions from ThAdmiral.
OK, I know I started this, but you seemed to like the opportunity to jump on it (while making it look like it was an afterthought).mcpaltp wrote:Personally, I think that getting suicidal as town is obnoxious (see:ryan). I've also seen it used as a scum ploy on several occasions (appeal to emotions, etc.). I'll tell you one thing about it though.
It is annoying and not a little scummy. Hey Boggzie: if you are town, cut it out. We've already had one pointless townie death. Townies are better alive than dead.
If you are scum: Keep it up! I'll vote for you. "Emo" sacrificing for the town's sake just hurts us.
And for that matter, you have all of one vote on you. Why are you trying to be so distracting?
What the heck. I'm putting my vote on you after all. I'll decide weather or not to take it off after I see your responses.
##Unvote:ThAdmiral
##Vote: Boggzie
Oh yeah, Admiral. I'm still not very confortable with you either. If Boggzie wasn't pulling this crap, my vote would still be on you.
I don't feel like I have enough for a vote on you yet, mcpaltp, but definitely a bigFOS
And this bit of wishywashy nonconfrontation:ThAdmiral wrote:Hasdfags voting for boggzie was a little weird, I felt. If I got a pm from someone during the mafia-talking time in a game I was in, that was unsent before I could read it, I would definitely go after them. To say that he is making something of nothing is a bit strong.
which looks like distancing to me, attacking and then withdrawing the attack in the same post.ThAdmiral wrote:Last night: spider jerusalem was killed by the mafia. This is understandable since he had a few good posts. If anything this may incriminate mcaltp as he did mention that he rather liked sj's posts (post 103), but this praise could have easily just been read by the mafia.
Parroting of an argument by Zakarum, and never justified by either of them, despite requests to that effect. I find that more evidence of a connection than either has presented on their "opie-hasdgfas" connection.ThAdmiral wrote:I am intrigued by the opie-hasdgfas connection, as I am uneasy on both of these two, and am also following elias' attack on bookitty as she is under my suspicion as well.
And then this:Zakarum wrote:QFT Very nice read Elias good call.
which argues to me that he's not following any of the arguments, since he can't figure these out for himself. He's just trailing whoever is making the loudest arguments.Zakarum wrote:Well.... does this mean Bookitty is off the hook or could she just have been trying to cover for herself by outing ryan.
Which makes no sense, and is NEVER explained (unless some halfhearted comment, much later, about hasdfgas claiming Elias never defended ryan is considered an explanation). However, there is this:Zakarum wrote:Very defensive hasdgfas im starting to see the connection between you and opi.Elias_the_thief wrote:um, yeah. this bandwagon is moving WAY too fast for my liking.
As far as I see it, there is no proof of whether the PM was for replacement purposes or for the purpose of PMing a buddy. Personally, I'm inclined to think its the former, seeing as
1) He IS searching for a replacement in a game, and
2) Sending a pm to his buddy now would be daytalking, and I'm assuming we have no cheaters here. Obviously, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
That being said,unvote.
Also, Boo, PLEASE don't do that. He may be scum, he may not, but the fact that he sent a pm to someone that MAY have been intended for you is certainly not enough for me to think you're scum, and if the rest of the town thinks otherwise, then the quality of play in this town is kind of questionable. (aka, you should NOT get lynched based on that alone).
More later.
FOS: Hasdfas and opi
And yet he never calls out ThAdmiral for not posting, nor does he even seem to notice hasdgfas's questions.Zakarum wrote:I told you Neko i check the forums to much and I'm used to fast games on a different site. SO when someone goes a whole day without talking about it that to me is a long time. I did read his posts and if you look regardless if ryan was scum or not SJ was giving him a chance to explain himself like a townie should instead of pushing him and potentially fabricating a story. I'm just saying at this point we have very little to go on and this is what is standing out.
Zakarum wrote: If you read what I said was that I mean no offence I am just trying to see what kind of a rise we can get see if anyone feels the same way or has something they wanted to add. I didn’t mean to look like I was backing off I meant to just say don’t take it personally I am just putting it out there for discussion.
Zakarum wrote:I thought he was being a to apologetic. Ryan offed himself couldn't handle the pressure plus before I wrote that it had already been mentioned that it was coming off scummy by others I was just showing my agreement.
Which are wishywashy and seem designed to distance even from his own expressed opinions. He defends ThAdmiral, albeit weakly, and criticises others for similar behaviours without ever noticing the inconsistency in his own position.Zakarum wrote:I agree with this very strongly although i will wait until Boggzie has a chance to defend himself before I place my vote. I also don't like the attacks on Thadmiral. I feel he is just a scapegoat because of so little information. Although he hasn't posted much I don't think he is scum and i think the quote was just a mistake.
[i]In Post 229[/i] ThAdmiral wrote:I am intrigued by the opie-hasdgfas connection, as I am uneasy on both of these two, and am also following elias' attack on bookitty as she is under my suspicion as well.
Then this, which just seems a little odd:mcpaltp wrote:This is day one. It would be not so bright to claim so strongly on someone unless it's a gambit or you have really great proof. This, admittedly WIFOM-y logic, coupled with ryan's OMGUS response makes me suspicous of ryan.
Elias already pointed out the directing of town opinion. Not a strong tell, but still a scumtell.mcpaltp wrote:Yeah, seriously. Listen, everybody: you should never, ever vote for someone unless you think that they are scum. It's like pointing a gun at someone. This is what scum do. If I didn't think that ryan was scum, I'd be voting for you in a heartbeat.
I wish I had two votes.
Oh, and ryan may be right, but I still think he's scum.
Then mcpaltp makes a pretty mild joke, under the circumstances, and has a fit of overreaction about it.mcpaltp wrote:Seriously, are you a jester or something? I wish I could vote for you more than once. If you flip town, I'll have egg on my face, but as of now I am super confident in my position. I am 99.9% convinced you are scum at this point.
Which seems a bit extreme, considering the level of vitriol ryan was sharing around to everyone, and seems a bit forced to me, "like the elaborations of a bad liar", to quote someone very smart. This was before we knew ryan was innocent, and it nearly bespeaks a knowledge that ryan would come up town, and a fear that this would be seen as townie-baiting in retrospect.mcpaltp wrote:Oh god, what have I done. I'm really really sorry, and if everyone thinks that was too mean I'll asked to be replaced. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I've just had a bad day and I'm kind of on edge.