Mini 523 - Game Over!

[liamcool]

Vote: Charter

Might as well get on a bandwagon, I suppose, considering we really don't have anything to go on yet.

[liamcool]

Actually, in regards to your post, Nudude, it's made me kinda suspicious about Infinitive. Not wanting people to vote means the scum get an obvious advantage. Yes, I know, this probably doesn't make a ton of sense, but eh.

[liamcool]

One of the things that plays out differently on SA is the opening, where a few jokevotes get thrown around for the hell of it and people start posting actual stuff within a few hours or so. This game's been just the opposite: everyone plunks down a vote and nothing else, disappears, and things start to stall (because a jokevote is contributing, amirite?). Normally I'd be a bit more chatty, but you need something to work with.

To be fair, this game started just before the weekend. Weekends tend to be slow online in general, in my experience ... and they're definitely slow on Mafiascum.

Actually, in regards to your post, Nudude, it's made me kinda suspicious about Infinitive. Not wanting people to vote means the scum get an obvious advantage. Yes, I know, this probably doesn't make a ton of sense, but eh.

No, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Everyone wants people to vote, it's just that scum want people to vote for townies. How does not voting give scum an advantage?

If people don't vote, the people who are voted against can't defend themselves (because they're not voted for, obviously), and then the town doesn't have as much information as they might possibly have.

[liamcool]

Question (which may show my ignorance): How many Mafia are there? Do we know?

[liamcool]

Couldn't we just vote the people who aren't posting at all out or something, if it's bugging you all that much?

[liamcool]

@laimcool.

You haven't really done any scumhunting and I'd like your opinion. Who do you find most suspicious? Why?

Based off the last page or so (the new conversation), I have a fairly strong suspicion (about 60%) or so that deepthought is scum. He seems to want Shotgun Kitten to be killed rather than replaced, which is kinda suspicious. Also, he apparently knows that there are three mafia. He stated that with a lot of convinction and knowledge. For all we know, this might be a non-standard game with 2 or 4 mafia, or even a bastard mod game with screwed up roles. Highly unlikely for the second instance though.

You can tweak the exact split of roles or screw with the mix by adding third parties, but it's basically useless to speculate about that without any cardflips.

Not neccesarily. Speculating might bring up more conversation which brings up more leads which helps uncover scum, which i highly suspect you to be right now.

I know, I don't have many leads right now but I'm trying the best that I can.

Unvote: Charter

FOS: Deepthought

[liamcool]

Okay, it seems blaringly obvious due to his nature and all the evidence piling up. I'm probably going to regret this, but I'm going to join on the bandwagon..

Vote: deepthought

[liamcool]

Please just end this arguement, we're getting nowhere as long as you two continue bitching.

[liamcool]

Actually, I've made the mistake of typing deepthroat at least five times, being so used to that.

As for his doctor claim, I think it's totally false, it seems very desperate in trying to get out of being lynched by saying "ooh, look at me, I'm the doctor".

Now that I've said that, though, look at him be the doctor. *laughs*

[liamcool]

I feel that it damns DT as scum, the evidence, in my opinion, is just too strong. His attempts at trying to convince people he's the doctor are pretty pathetic and just a desperate attempt at saving his life.

[liamcool]

Can I ask who believes DT is the doctor and who doesn't?

[liamcool]

Vote Count

deepthought (5)

- Nudude, liamcool, Thanatos, charter, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (3) - Gorgon, Hang'em High, deepthought
Thanatos (1) - VampyreLord

Not Voting (3) - Infinitive, Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Insurgent

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deepthought- The pink gorilla in the room being...? I suspect that you're referring to Liam, but I want to hear these things out of your mouth.

I think he was referring to you, myself.

quote tags fixed

[liamcool]

hmm..I did a short re-read over some things, and noticed that it was insurgent that pushed me over the edge about the the DT lynch. If there was a vig, that might be a reason.

If there was a vig, a SK

and

mafia (with our doc dead), shouldn't there have been 3 NK's?

I think he means if there's no SK.

[liamcool]

Or maybe the mafia get to kill two people a night for whatever reason (one for the godfather and one for the grunt/grunts)

[liamcool]

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

Could you clarify what you mean here? I haven't got an idea what you mean, based off the second sentence, which could change the entire meaning.

(sorry for not posting more guys, I expected to get an opportunity to during work experience this week but didn't, I'll try and be more active)

[liamcool]

Vote Count

Thanatos (2) - Gorgon, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (1) - charter
Disciple Slayer (1) - Thanatos

Not Voting (5) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, liamcool, Infinitive, Nudude, VampyreLord

Which comment would that be?

And...yeah, your right.

I usually am.

Watch the egotism, it's not nice for anyone to read, it just makes people think you're an arsehole and makes the game unpleasant for everyone.

I just gave a PBPA and you FOS me for quoting the words of a dead townie? I think your reasoning is flawed. Here's a vote to pressure you into more information.

Vote: Thanatos

Now watch as DLS rushes to defend him in her next post.

I'm actually pretty suprised nobody picked up on this, while it's true we need more information, this seems a little drastic.

Post a good reply to my third and longest HeH quote and I might unvote you if you convince me. My vote was initially a pressure vote, but gut instinct tells me your reaction smells rather odd.

Blackmail, it appears that Disciple Slayer is taking a very aggressive approach, in my view, similar to what deepthought took, which obviously led to his death. Even if it is unlikely, I hope you realise this may lead to your own demise.

If this makes no sense, it's due to me not getting enough sleep recently. If you need to enquire about anything in it, feel free to ask me in about 12-14 hours from this post.

[liamcool]

Also, due to recent evidence:

Vote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

What evidence?

Ditto. What evidence?

Thirded, what evidence?

[liamcool]

(please note, this post is likely to be a huge mess)

Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time for

him

That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,

Unvote, Vote:Liamcool

h
We don't know you're a townie. You do seem suspicious, even if your intentions are good and true. (yes, that sounds cliched.)

Your vote seems a bit spur of the moment, so I won't comment on it for now, but I might come back in a later post.

Ooops, hadn't read page 25 when I made that last post, after reading it I do think nudude could be scum as well.

This is a pretty idiotic and spur of the moment thing too, but I'll let it go as maybe you were rushing to make a post or something.

As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.

However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let im survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.

I think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people. Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me. In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.

Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.

Hmmm, now that I go back and reread around 430, I can't find where infinitive voted for liamcool at all. I was basing it off of DTs post 431 and infinitives 429 where I guess I just infered it from infinitive's saying he's 90% sure DT is scum and I must of assumed this meant he would be voting for DT.

(more to come later as thoughts continue to come to my head. Is double posting under these circumstances accepted or not?)

[liamcool]

First, I'm gonna role-claim as cop. I'm doing this because I inspected liamcool last night and he was innocent. People look like they're close on lynching him, and I don't want to lynch another town.
And Thanatos, where'd your vote move? The top of 26 says it's on DS, and it hasn't been changed since then as far as I can see...

While I appreciate you sacrificing yourself for me, I would have preferred you not to have done that, for the good of the town. Seriously, it wasn't really a good move, it pretty much guarantees we're both dead during tonight.

[liamcool]

Unvote: Thanatos

, for the reason that I never voted him to begin with and the game added my vote anyway.

[liamcool]

Why are you so sure you'll both get killed? VL will get killed for sure if he's the real cop ... but in order for you to get killed, there would have to be an SK, or two scum groups. I'm not sure that's the case ... there may easily just be a careless vig out there, since I don't see Insurgent as a particularily obvious target for scum.

Ah, alright, I apologise, I was making the assumption that there's two scum groups.

[liamcool]

Charter brings up a very good point, and the exact thing I was going to bring up, actually.

Mod, are we allowed to vote No Vote in this game or not?

[liamcool]

Vote Count

Dark_Lady_Shaiann (3)

- Disciple Slayer, Thanatos, charter
Thanatos (2) - Gorgon, VampyreLord

Not Voting (4) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Infinitive, liamcool, Nudude

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Mod, are we allowed to vote No Vote in this game or not?

What exactly do you propose to accomplish with lynching no one? The only thing that happens is that tomorrow, we will have one or two dead people ... probably the people who are most helpful to the town. Lynching yields valuable information every time ... not lynching yields no information.

However, no lynch is sometimes an option. I'm not just sure this is a situation where it's justified ...

This said, I'm hard pressed to pick anyone I would definitely want to lynch at this point ...

Actually, it was just a theoretical question.

[liamcool]

Hmmm...I wonder if any one has actually ever read over the flame war, or has every one simply dismissed it for whatever reasons.

I read it but haven't drawn any points from it, I might work on it later.

[liamcool]

So....me voting Infinitive is defensive of myself......how?

Let's say theoretically that you and Thanatos are scum buddies. (not accusing you, just play along.) If one of your scum buddies dies, it puts you in a much weaker position the next day.

[liamcool]

So....me voting Infinitive is defensive of myself......how?

Let's say theoretically that you and Thanatos are scum buddies. (not accusing you, just play along.) If one of your scum buddies dies, it puts you in a much weaker position the next day.

Yeah.....but I probably wouldn't have to ask Thanatos that question..... Not to mention we were both mistakingly talking about different things, and that his vote is on me and it doesn't really look like it's moving anytime soon......

It's a way to distance yourselves from each other. If you're both taking different views on different things, it means you obviously don't talk at night...or do you? And even if his vote is on you, it may serve to further distance you two.

[liamcool]

As I mentioned in my last post, I thought I was putting him at L-2, not L-1. Please, read the explanations I've given before you ask for one.

Simply put, IMHO, the town stands to gain more from a Than lynch than a DLS lynch. Show me how this is not the case and I'll unvote.

1) That's not a very watertight alibi. You stated very obviously in 804

Okay. Well, given the length of day 2, I'm gonna throw my vote out.

Vote: Thanatos

Which means that you wanted to speed the game up...maybe lynch someone you know is a guaranteed townie?

2) That's totally false. If we lynch DLS, we kill someone who hasn't contributed that much, who has kinda been hanging around on the sidelines. If we kill Thanatos, we kill someone who, even if he is scum, does investigate and help a lot with the town.

I'm tempted to drop the hammer right now but I'll let you have a chance to defend yourself before I do.

[liamcool]

He's not at L-1, Liam.

So he's not, I can't count. Thanks.

But if I vote, I do put him there, no?

[liamcool]

Hey guys, unfortunately, I'll be forced to go on holidays from late Saturday night (AEDT - GMT +11), for about a week or so (don't know at this time). So if something happens, that's cool, I don't mind.

[liamcool]

Posting will commence on the 18th. I've got a busy weekend and a flight immediately after.

Then

Posting after Christmas.

It could be for legitimate reasons, or it could be he's trying to use IRL excuses to avoid getting lynched. We aren't going to lynch someone who's had a reasonable chance to defend themselves. I'm not saying we SHOULD, but I think we should put off lynching untill after we've had a good chance to hear more from him.

In the meantime, no reason we can't continue discussing things.

Infinitive, your pushing for a lynch, when I don't feel we really have had a look at some very important facts, namely:

-DS comes out all guns blazing D2, then drops of the face of the Earth as we all point fingers at each other. It works very well on newbie townies, but I think we're all intelligent people.

-charter seems to have also dropped off the face of the Earth. I want to see if he gets replaced, and if so I want to have a chat to his replacement.

-Gorgon has been very inactive as well, and in fact when I pointed this out he attacked me for, essentialy, being suspicious of lurkers. That is extremely suspicious to me, because we all know that lurking is bad for town no matter how you spin it. I want to put some pressure on him so I can hear from from him, so

VOTE: Gorgon

-Infinitive seems to be leaning toward a lynch. It could simply be he wants to get on with the game, or he could be scum. You even described lynching Thanatos as our "Best bet". Maybe, maybe not, but I want to push the odds in town's favour as much as we can be we throw the dice, and it seems we've got yet to do that, so

HOS: Infinitve

Nudude brings up a good point with charter and Gorgon - they seemed to agree a lot on points before and now have both practically fallen off the planet at the same time.

[liamcool]

In fact, I'm gonna try and speed this up with a pressure vote, just to get information.

Vote: Gorgon

If you can contribute, I'll take this off.

[liamcool]

Thanks.

Unvote

Will reply to you calling me out in a few days, ya dirty bastard.

[liamcool]

You're very bad at being scum, DS.

Vote: Disciple Slayer

And Nudude, both DS and Infinitive's L-1's scream scum to me, because the reasoning to both is nearly identical ("the day's been going on too long".)

[liamcool]

Not investigating is a ploy? What possible agenda could I forward by not investigating DS?

That you two are alligned in some way?

[liamcool]

.

- As Infinitive points out, no counterclaim. I'm not counterclaiming, so that leaves only liamcool and charter (or his replacement) as possible counterclaimants.

I'm not counterclaiming either, so we need Charter now to counterclaim to prove Than as a liar. If we can't until his replacement comes, I think Than is pretty much cleared for now, although we should still look at the possibility of him lying.

Infinitive has made careless mistakes, due to either merely misreading the reading the thread, or merely playing the role of sloppy scum and only reading the thread to see which bandwagons people join, as to pick the most obvious choice in terms of suspicion building for the nightkill.

I would throw a vote on Infinitive, but come night, if he's town, and there are four mafia, we lose. Voting right now due to these mistakes and his eagerness to end the day is tempting but I'm not going to.

FOS: Infinitive

As for Insurgent....I was convinced we would kill Liamcool yesterday. Beyond him, I wasn't really sure what to do. I didn't want to pass up my kill, because I had read that, statistically, a jumpy Vig helps the town. I also gave some reasons yesterday, when I talked about how Insurgent was the one who convinced me to stay on DT, and I was pretty suspicious of him, albeit for a bad reason. He also seems like something of a useless townie, and realistically, as good a kill as any. In hindsight, I should have gone with my initial person I wanted to kill, DS, but I chose to let him live.

Why didn't you go ahead, even though you now know I'm town? If I was your major suspicion during N1, why kill someone else? Insurgent might have convinced you to stay on DT, but there were seven people on that bandwagon, why pick him of all people?

Also, while I'm thinking of it, a fairly obvious (I would hope) but still worthwhile suggestion: Than, if you are a vig, and we get town on the lynch today (god forbid), do not vig on N3. While the chances of getting scum will be 1/3 under those circumstances, I don't like the 2/3 chance of a loss in that case.

[liamcool]

Actually, if he's wrong, and you are a vig, and you don't kill tonight, we have another day for lynch (unless we have a 4 scum mafia, which is highly unlikely at best).

Two notes

1) Than, if I was your most suspicious person on D1, why didn't you kill me? (I may have asked this earlier, if I did, just redirect me, slap me around the head and call me an idiot)

2) Infinitive, the chance of me being a godfather is 1/7 (roughly 14% if my maths is correct). The odds are greatly stacked against me being godfather, if there even is one.

[liamcool]

Vote Count

Thanatos (1) - Nudude
Nudude (1) - Thanatos

Not Voting (5) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, liamcool, Infinitive, Gorgon, charter

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

We had a big case against him as scum early on day 2, influenced heavily by DT. That derailed as a result of VL's investigation, but I'd like to bring it back to life now, of people don't mind.

Feel free to. If you wish you waste your time on investigating a townie instead of targeting someone who's allignment hasn't been confirmed, you can go right ahead. You're welcome to ask questions, make statements, whatever, I don't mind, but note in advance you're wasting your time.

[liamcool]

Gorgon: A canny fellow. He's added useful stuff to the game on a pretty steady basis; only recently has he gone AWOL. Still, he was a part of the DT lynch and (I think) was not a part of the Liam lynch.

Totally wrong. Gorgon was on the bandwagon to lynch me for something like ten pages. He only jumped on the DT wagon in order to end day 1.

[liamcool]

You'll get a post in 12-24 hours, just about to go out with friends for now, you will get it.

[liamcool]

Charter, Liamcool and Gorgon are townies.

I don't like this one bit. Nudude, why are you so bloody certain that we're townies?

If I'm a misguided townie, then it is becuase you have misguided me.

You lied to us in D1. How can any of us believe that you are not trying to misguide us yourself?

Gorgon, I really don't like how you waited for Infinitive to make a post before commencing your case on me. You seemed to have it fairly well fleshed out: if it was prepared earlier, why not post it back then?

And yes, to answer your question, I'm a fairly quiet player. I will readily admit that a lot of my posts tend to be stream of consciousness, first idea that pops into my head, etc. etc. In fact, I'm not really happy with this post, but my personal life takes precedence. Sorry.

Mod, when are we getting a replacement for charter? I want a full deck to play with, we need another opinion on this, a lot of the opinions so far have been firmly entrenched for a bit.

[liamcool]

P.S. I'm still waiting on liam to explain what the heck he meant when he said that DLS lied D1.

I haven't had a chance to reply to this yet - yeah, it was what DLS mentioned a page or two back, I've reread it and understand now.

The 'lynch Than tomorrow if he survives' is therefore a dangerous line of thought, and one that I warn strongly against.

I do agree with this though, we should wait for night actions, et cetera before night 3 goes off.

Guys, don't expect any in depth posting before Friday morning my time (GMT +11) - busy doing studying etc today, Dream Theater concert tomorrow, back to school on Thursday. Apologies.

[liamcool]

Why don't / won't you roleclaim?

[liamcool]

Looks like I'm claiming then.

I'm the other one.

Breadcrumb in the post where DLS refers to it as my longest post so far (on Day 3) and also posts on day 1 and day 2.

In hindsight, yes, I did act weird.

[liamcool]

Damn it liam - why did neither of you claim yesterday?

God knows. If we're allowed to post night conversations (waiting for a ruling) I'll throw them up.

[liamcool]

Okay, cool.

I'm gonna be reasonably low activity for the next week or so (schoolwork) and not on at all from next Monday-Wednesday (GMT +11). I'll be able to get the mason convos up by then at least, hopefully.

[liamcool]

Personally I think Infinitive is leaning towards scum, because he's made a lot of sloppy mistakes (in the past) that make me think he hasn't been reading the whole way through, just picking what suits him.

I'm putting the mason convos up because people want to read them, and I have no problem with it.

[liamcool]

Will not be here for at least 36 hours: Have a massive Modern History paper to write.

[liamcool]

See, I told you charter and Gorgon were both mafia! Come on guys. *laugh*