Mini 507: Big Brother Mafia - Game Over

[pablito]

Skruffs and ckillor prodded

[Skruffs]

Gah! This game got dropped from my watch list over the weekend, haven't even checked into it. All I know is Distad got evicted, and I am still around. Thanks, I intend to prove myself, if I can.

[pickemgenius]

Chaos: Didn't you also nominate trabony/Skruffs on Day 1?

That's half right. I nominated trabony. Afterwards, Skruffs replaced in and I found him less suspicious than trabony. You, however, have said Skruffs is one of the most scummiest people in the game, but I never really saw any reasons by you for that claim.

i'm gonna go out on a limb and call BS.

skruffs=trabony.

if you thought trabony was scummy, just because skruffs replaced in doesnt erase trabonys scumminess.

NOMINATE: CHAOSOMEGA

[Skruffs]

Okay.

I would nominate Ryan. Not just because he claimed to not be a townie (which he adamantly denies) but also because the instigation that because Distad was a townie, I am scum, and that everyone who voted Distad should be looked at.

However, with it going 4-5, that means every single player that could vote, had to, which is interesting. Even if you want to say I am scum, and DoS is scum, that's still a minimum of 4 scum voting between me and Distad. So looking at the reasons people used behind their votes is worth considering.

Personally, I think that the people who voted distad had thebetter reasoning, but since I was the other choice, I can understand why others would be skeptical. He was a townie, but he was also blaise and not much threat to the two scum alliances which are (right now) in the majority. I on the other hand came out swinging, and I got some PRETTY CRAPPY votes because of it.

If I was to nominate, I would definitely nominate Ryan and probably nominate Faerie Lord. He *said* that I was doing a good job adn then tried to evict me for it because "Trabony's play sucked". I personally think that ignoring a player who is active to focus on their predecessor who was replaced in the first place becasue they were lurking, that is scummy and avoidant. I think FL was hoping a noisy town (or at least not his team, in his eyes) voice would be eliminated.

KSc0pe not only avoided posting reasoning but then defended that with the old "it's day 1" excuse. I'm sorry, but ignoring the information you DO have to defend a reason based on OLD information and then saying you don't have the NEW information is scummy, in my eyes, too. Plus, he attacked me for being upset that I got two votes for NO DEFENDABLE REASON AT ALL, in fact, the votes were based on things I had absolutely NO control over, so it was OBVIOUS that KSc0pe (and Faerie Lord) didn't WANT there to be discussion about it.


Mneme - from what I see, you haven't really looked at the reasons people used behind their votes in deciding your nominations. What do you think about everyone? Why are you choosing to nominate DOS



Ryan - you didn't post a single thing with your vote on me. Why not? And why are you badgering Chaos - who had to choose between a tie - and not the person who put Distad at equal footing with me in possibility of being lynched? Isn't it more likely that someone was trying to protect me by making it easier for Distad to be lynched than it is that Chaos waited until there was some sort of known tie before deciding to hammer 'the townie'? And why are you so sure I am scum? The reason I am asking these questions is because you are choosing who to attack in, what I see as, a biased manner.
Also - the whole "People who hammer a townie should be looked on the next day" doesn't mean anything if two townies are the only choices. That was the case. Every one had to vote between TWO options, me or distad. One of us HAD to be lynched. After DOS made his decision to nominate those players, one of them had to go. If there are other game mechanics in here, they were not used. You can say that is how you have seen plenty of games played, but that is ignoring the mechanics of THIS game. I just really don't like you attacking Chaos for basically being the last person to VOTE and not anyone else.
Also, and this is very strange... do you think Mneme is town? If so, why would you want him to be nominated? The idea of nominating someone to 'prove they are town' only really works if the person is lynched and shown to be town. I know that can't be what you are suggesting.

I like Pug89's Post 374. Reason. Pug seems kind of townish to me.

Pickem:
I like how you are playing this game, but the post you made just above mine... confuses me. (BTW I dropped out of Jathan's BB game. I didn't like it.) Why would you attack CHaos for changing his opinion of a player after they have been replaced? That is like saying that you can't change your mind abuot someone after you've FOSsed them. Or something along those lines.

Epilogue:
Personally, if Chaos was scum and had to choose between one of his scum buddies and someone not on his team, week one.... then evicting his scum buddy would put a HUGE "Townie" beacon over his head that could not be touched for Weeks.

Congrats on your win vel rahn koon. I hope you nominate smartly. More than listening to me, I hope you develop your own opinions about why you are nominating who you are nominating, because you can't actually vote (unless there is a tie)

[Skruffs]

I guess rather than just saying "Nominate this person!" I am going to instead analyze and posit the reasons why I think people should be nommed.

Ryan, you are seriously floundering.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I did not avoided posting, I simply had a short time to make up my mind. At the time I replaced in, I knew I had little time for a reread as I had to work that night and the next day. So yeah, maybe your right that my post insinuated that there was no discussion possible, because there wasn't any for me. I replaced in to late for that.

As for the day 1 argument: it's perfectly valid and I still stand by it. Also, just because you were in the position that your opinion didn't really matter doesn't make it valid to call out on other people who have to. If I compare my reason to vote someone to some other peoples, especially the way the votes went, I'm inclined to believe people were mostly voting the player not to stand out, just to keep the voting close to each other.

As for my big post I wrote before: I still stand by that, aside from the part that I was unaware that unvoting is impossible.

With that being said, I do believe there is a significant chance that DoS is scum, considering he got the first HoH. It would make sense and I wouldn't be opposed to a nomination of him, neither am I for Ryan. I think it's too early to already put Faerielord on the bank, because I think he was in the same position as me, though he handled it different. He yet has the time to prove himself. I think Skruffs should be left outside of the nominations today, simply because he needs a chance to play the game, though I'm not feeling very comfortable with his play. I'd also be happy with ckillor on the nomination list. I think he said very little productive, considering he is in from the start.

So

Nominate: Ryan and Ckillor

.
I could live with a DoS nomination, but it's more a hunch because of the first HoH election.

[ryan]

Ryan - you didn't post a single thing with your vote on me. Why not? And why are you badgering Chaos - who had to choose between a tie - and not the person who put Distad at equal footing with me in possibility of being lynched? Isn't it more likely that someone was trying to protect me by making it easier for Distad to be lynched than it is that Chaos waited until there was some sort of known tie before deciding to hammer 'the townie'? And why are you so sure I am scum? The reason I am asking these questions is because you are choosing who to attack in, what I see as, a biased manner.

Also - the whole "People who hammer a townie should be looked on the next day" doesn't mean anything if two townies are the only choices. That was the case

. Every one had to vote between TWO options, me or distad. One of us HAD to be lynched. After DOS made his decision to nominate those players, one of them had to go. If there are other game mechanics in here, they were not used. You can say that is how you have seen plenty of games played, but that is ignoring the mechanics of THIS game. I just really don't like you attacking Chaos for basically being the last person to VOTE and not anyone else.

WIFOM argument there Skruffs and you know it. How do we "know" you are town? We don't. All we do know is that distad was a townie, that is the only thing we know for certain. I don't "know" you are scum, but I have a good feeling that you are trying to steer the town in your direction and to follow you and normally I would see that as a decent town play, in this instance I don't trust you. I also don't like the fact that you don't want to look at Chaos for being possible scum for eliminating a townie but I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about it because it's obvious you don't find anything scummy about it (which is your opinion and most certainly not mine) With that.....

2nd nomination: ChaosOmega

Just because a few others (probably the other scum group) don't want to see you pressured for taking out a townie doesn't mean I'm going to.

[FaerieLord]

As promised, Chaos Omega, this is why I chose to nominate Skruffs.

[quote="trabony"]Yeah I'm quite confused too, i know our votes count after the HoH nominates but now I thought we're just kind of joking around getting some discussion going.

The other thing I'm a bit confused about right now is mneme's "random but is it truly random?" vote (I'm seriously confused where in the thread does he give his reason!?)

Help a dumb irish person out here![/quote]

Playing the dumb and confused card too early, admitted not paying attention to the rules AND the game

[quote="trabony"]There is really little to go on, all votes are just random. So I don't nominate anyone unless someone majorly slips up![/quote]

Staying on the fence

[quote="trabony"]Just a really wild theory but ryan's whole "here is a list of lurkers/non lurkers" action, just after discussions about voting out lurkers make it look like ryan is trying desperatly to create a reson to save himself. In otherwords it seems like he is saying "look at how many times i posted don't vote for me!"

As well, the "im voting for someone who has posted alot" vote seems like he is trying to cover this up.

Just a wild theory!

I FoS: Ryan though.[/quote]

Crappy reasons to nominate ryan, and remained in silence until skruffs replaced

[quote="trabony"]Before I defend myself I want to know how I'm hurting things, as far as I'm concerned I've only been hurting myself so far in this game. [/quote]

Appeal for emotion (this was the last post)

Now, my opinions on players

ChaosOmega

- Using pickem too much as a leaning shoulder

ckillor

- Not much of a read on him, very neutral vibe

DragonsofSummer

- The nominations seemed reasoned out to me. The most voted and a lurker

mneme

- Contributed a lot, albeit kind of led the town

pickemgenius

- Best player IMO in the game atm

Pug89

- Certainly trying, though the same vibe as that I get with ckillor

ryan

- Im really confused about him. At times he is totally town in my eyes though some of his posts suck.

Skruffs (r/trabony)

- Trabony left me with a bad taste in my mouth, though skruffs is trying his best to remedy this.

KaleiÐoscøpe (r/Untrod Tripod)

- Tripod gave me that neutral vibe as well, though kalei is sounding town to me.

If I had to choose right now, my nominations would be ChaosOmega and....Ryan I think. Not sure about the latter though, though the fact that Chaos called me out for repeating what kalei said while during the whole debacle he was agreeing with pickem, just adding small thoughts, really struck me as off.

[Skruffs]

KaleiÐoscøpe - I may not have had a vote last round but that doesn't make my opinion useless NOR did it prevent me from playing the game.

FaerieLord - Do you feel that I, Skruffs, was playing dumb and confused, wassitting on the fence, or was was using crappy reasons? If not, than your vote was based entirely on trabony and not me. Which means you were avoiding my nomination - or me - entirely.

Ryan:
"I don't "know" you are scum, but I have a good feeling that you are trying to steer the town in your direction and to follow you and normally I would see that as a decent town play, in this instance I don't trust you. "
- THis statement tells me you have no inclination to change your mind about me, regardless of my actions and/or what I do.

"I also don't like the fact that you don't want to look at Chaos for being possible scum for eliminating a townie but I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about it because it's obvious you don't find anything scummy about it (which is your opinion and most certainly not mine) With that...."
I am the only person in the game who KNOWS that ChaosOmega had two townies to choose from. It doesn't make him automatically scum for choosing one townie over another. If he had voted for you, would you be accusing Vel of the exact same thing?

Also, you are accusing me of WIFOM, but you are trying to get ChaosOmega nominated for the exact same "WIFOM". "How do we "know" you are town? " WHy are you so "Sure" that I am not, that you would think CD was voting distad to save me?

[ryan]

Skruffs: Listen, both of us are claiming town ok? Let's get that out of the way first. Because that is essentially what we are doing, going back and forth with you saying that only you KNOW that Chaos had two townies to choose from (if you are indeed town) which is basically the same as me stating town. You know your role and I know mine. You claim to be town, I claim to be town. Period. Alot of your "role" was characterized by the power you replaced, I got extremely scummy vibes from him and although you have done a decent job trying to deflect that I don't lynch the player, I lynch the role and that is why I'm still pressing you on if you are town or not (which you have to admit is fair) I'm not 100% set on you being scum as I'm not dumb enough to not give you a chance to prove your towniness, I just find it strange that Chaos was not given much heat at all for being the deciding voter as a townie was lynched, but apparently that's just me.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem:
I like how you are playing this game, but the post you made just above mine... confuses me. (BTW I dropped out of Jathan's BB game. I didn't like it.) Why would you attack CHaos for changing his opinion of a player after they have been replaced? That is like saying that you can't change your mind abuot someone after you've FOSsed them. Or something along those lines.

well you see... i'm saying basically that if you find X to be scummy and nominate them. then just because Y replaces X, and looks pretty good doesn't mean you should totally forget X's actions.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem:
I like how you are playing this game, but the post you made just above mine... confuses me. (BTW I dropped out of Jathan's BB game. I didn't like it.) Why would you attack CHaos for changing his opinion of a player after they have been replaced? That is like saying that you can't change your mind abuot someone after you've FOSsed them. Or something along those lines.

well you see... i'm saying basically that if you find X to be scummy and nominate them. then just because Y replaces X, and looks pretty good doesn't mean you should totally forget X's actions.

EBWOP: The nominate is being used as the terms of our voting before the actual nominations are chosen.

[Skruffs]

Ryan, pickem, Faerie, ksc0pe:
Okay - the four of you have stated prettty strongly that the person I replaced was scummy in some how, but the only quote I have seen is from Faerie. The reasons were that he did not understand the rules of the game, that he was a fence sitter, and that he had crappy reasons for nominating Ryan.

Well, my reasons for nominating Ryan are not that crappy. I have misunderstood aspects of the game (I thought evicted players acted as HoHs on leaving. I was wrong.. that and some other things). Fence sitting, I don't see that as a scum tell, especially on a day one before any real information is revealed.

You guys can continue to hold this against me, for the rest of the game if you want... or you can do as pickem is saying and let it go but keep it in mind... or you can really look if someone should really be accountable for that on a day one. If you want to continue to scrutinize people like that, maybe you should scrutinize other players in the game, too, then, to avoid being hypocritical.

Ryan - Saying that you are going to claim townie does not make mine and your situations similar. It doesn't. Sorry.

[pickemgenius]

Ryan, pickem, Faerie, ksc0pe:
Okay - the four of you have stated prettty strongly that the person I replaced was scummy in some how, but the only quote I have seen is from Faerie. The reasons were that he did not understand the rules of the game, that he was a fence sitter, and that he had crappy reasons for nominating Ryan.

i haven't said who you replaced was scummy.

choas did and then voted to evict distad.

that is my problem.

[ryan]

Ryan, pickem, Faerie, ksc0pe:
Okay - the four of you have stated prettty strongly that the person I replaced was scummy in some how, but the only quote I have seen is from Faerie. The reasons were that he did not understand the rules of the game, that he was a fence sitter, and that he had crappy reasons for nominating Ryan.

Well, my reasons for nominating Ryan are not that crappy. I have misunderstood aspects of the game (I thought evicted players acted as HoHs on leaving. I was wrong.. that and some other things). Fence sitting, I don't see that as a scum tell, especially on a day one before any real information is revealed.

You guys can continue to hold this against me, for the rest of the game if you want... or you can do as pickem is saying and let it go but keep it in mind... or you can really look if someone should really be accountable for that on a day one. If you want to continue to scrutinize people like that, maybe you should scrutinize other players in the game, too, then, to avoid being hypocritical.

Ryan - Saying that you are going to claim townie does not make mine and your situations similar. It doesn't. Sorry.

Actually it does, because that is your defense, that you are townie and it's not your fault that the person you replaced acted scummy. So the situations are alike whether you want to see it or not

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I gave postnumbers. There's no difference between that and quotes.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Current nominees:

Ryan - 4 (mneme, ChaosOmega, pug89, KScope)
mneme - 3 (DoS, ryan, pug89)

DoS - 1 (mneme)
FaerieLord - 1 (ChaosOmega)
ckillor - 2 (DoS, Kscope)
ChaosOmega - 2 (peg, ryan)

As of now, I would be sending mneme and ryan to the block. They've been at each other's throats for almost all of day 2, and I think most of us have suspicions of one or the other of them. Please comment. I will not be posting official nominations until right up until the deadline, because I want everyone to give as much information as possible.

[ryan]

Eh, do what ya gotta do Vel, I have no problem pointing out mneme's flaws and why he should be voted. I still go with my top choices of Chaos and mneme to be nominated but if I'm the leader than so be it, I'll fight like hell to stay on and find scum.

[FaerieLord]

@Skruffs. Ignoring me again? I said that You and Distad were playing good, so I had to see a way to get something out of this, so since you were both replaced, i went to predecessor.

Also, remember that once I entered I only had the choice between two people, you and distad, I had to choose one. Read above to see why I chose you. At this point, I'd rather

Nominate: Chaos Omega

Replace Mneme with chaos in that list vel, and I can live with it

[mneme]

DoS was my default for today, but he hasn't done much (aside from the HoH nom and the OMGUS) to push my suspision, while others have, so I'll background that for now(plus I haven't had any traction there).

unnom DoS
Nom: Chaos Omega

Chaos is a lurker, OMGUSed ryan, changed his mind on trabony/Scruffs, and is linked to distad (which is itself interesting).

Plus, IMO, Chaos/Ryan makes for a much more interesting debate than me/ryan. We've already -had- that debate.

[FaerieLord]

Mneme, I don't like that post.

At all.

It seems to me that you are only trying to get more votes on the chaos nom-wagon

[ryan]

Mneme, I don't like that post.

At all.

It seems to me that you are only trying to get more votes on the chaos nom-wagon

It seems? Looks exactly like it to me.

[mneme]

Well, duh. This is a special case of "why would I vote for myself?"

But the reasons are still sound.

[mneme]

Also, ryan? You've got some ground to stand on, given where your votes are.

(both people voting for you; both the two strongest bandwagons that aren't yours).

[Skruffs]

Vel, I'd like you to post your opinions as well.
Nominate: ryan, mneme.

Ryan's false dilemma that chaos voted out a townie (while ignoring everyone else on distad's vote count) is a baseless reason to nominate co. He thought trabony was scummy, but not me. Saying that's scummy is just validating the votes I had on me that were based entirely on trabony's play (and more likely from scum imo)