Mini 507: Big Brother Mafia - Game Over

[pickemgenius]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Which could have resulted also in a townie lynch.

The only thing it might prove is that chaos and skruffs are buddy's, but nothing more then that, really

.[/quote]


would the bolded statement not be fucking ideal?

that's like best case scenario.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

[quote="pickemgenius"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Which could have resulted also in a townie lynch.

The only thing it might prove is that chaos and skruffs are buddy's, but nothing more then that, really

.[/quote]


would the bolded statement not be fucking ideal?

that's like best case scenario.[/quote]

Sure that would be the best case scenario, but that's not really "proof" is it. It would definitely

suggest

that they may be buddies, as scope pointed out with the qualifier might, but it's not going to be definite. Let's not jump to anything too soon.

[mneme]

As promised:

Nom: Ryan, DoS

Ryan for his craptastic play yesterday (and slip); DoS for reasoning yesterday, plus a bit of a hunch.

Re wagons:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town. OTOH, the wagon on scruffs was pretty craptastic, so I don't blame necessarily Chaos for going with the Scruffs wagon.

That said...yes, proving a buddy relationship would be a -huge- advantage to the town, as it would knock two scum out in the open.

[FaerieLord]

ryan-there was a misunderstanding

kscope-..... you basically fucking followed him, and agreed with him, and said exactly the same thing he said. So you saying kscope shouold be nommed is kind of like saying you want to nom yourself...

Sorry for taking my time to read. It just happened that kscope was a bit faster with his read:/

[ryan]

As promised:

Nom: Ryan, DoS

Ryan for his craptastic play yesterday (and slip); DoS for reasoning yesterday, plus a bit of a hunch.

Re wagons:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town

. OTOH, the wagon on scruffs was pretty craptastic, so I don't blame necessarily Chaos for going with the Scruffs wagon.

That said...yes, proving a buddy relationship would be a -huge- advantage to the town, as it would knock two scum out in the open.

What does this prove? The only thing I can think of is you're thinking we should find you innocent because you "probably thought at the time he was town" that is craplogic at it's highest and you're not blaming Chaos for hammering a townie? Are you screaming that you're scum or is it just me?

[ChaosOmega]

Nominate: ryan and FaerieLord

I will explain more after I return from class.

[ryan]

Nominate: ryan and FaerieLord

I will explain more after I return from class.

Guess I should have figured that posting suspicion on you would draw out a nomination. Oh well.

[pickemgenius]

[quote="Vel-Rahn Koon"][quote="pickemgenius"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Which could have resulted also in a townie lynch.

The only thing it might prove is that chaos and skruffs are buddy's, but nothing more then that, really

.[/quote]


would the bolded statement not be fucking ideal?

that's like best case scenario.[/quote]

Sure that would be the best case scenario, but that's not really "proof" is it. It would definitely

suggest

that they may be buddies, as scope pointed out with the qualifier might, but it's not going to be definite. Let's not jump to anything too soon.[/quote]


The word might is in the bolded statement. so yes.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Limited Access. Reread has to wait.

[ChaosOmega]

FaerieLord:

[quote="FaerieLord"]Sorry for taking my time to read. It just happened that kscope was a bit faster with his read:/[/quote]
So you're saying that with this extra time you used to read, you posted pretty much the exact reasoning as KaleiÐoscøpe, just changing words around, and posted it only a little bit of time after his.

Well, let's look at your reasoning for it:

[quote="FaerieLord"]I wasn't talking about the defense. I was mostly talking pre nomination. I'll get to that soon enough.[/quote]
Now let's look at what KaleiÐoscøpe said a bit before:

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]It isn't about trabony's defense that made me suspicious of him, it was mainly his play before DoS nominated him.[/quote]
You sum it up perfectly:

[quote="FaerieLord"]Rereading it, it does sound like barning kscope[/quote]
I agree.

2 questions for you:

1. You said you would get to talking about the pre-nomination stuff that caused you to vote, but you haven't as of yet. So what did you see before nominations that made you more suspicious of trabony than of Flare?

2.
[quote="FaerieLord"]May I ask why me, not ryan or kscope?[/quote]
Why would you suggest KaleiÐoscøpe, considering that you said yourself your last few posts have been similar to his?

ryan:

All you get are questions.

1.[quote="ryan"]I still find Skruffs to be one of the scummiest in the game and will probably be nominating him here in Day 2.[/quote]
Why? I went back through the entire thread, and I didn't find anywhere where you stated reasons for it. So I'm curious.

Another question later. Stupid work.

[ryan]

Chaos: Didn't you also nominate trabony/Skruffs on Day 1?

[mneme]

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town

.

What does this prove? The only thing I can think of is you're thinking we should find you innocent because you "probably thought at the time he was town" that is craplogic at it's
[/quote]
Uh-huh.You said it; I didn't. But I think I was the only one on the Scruffs wagon who actually had posted reasoning. Supporting a townie for in-thread reasons is pro-town.

You might get some of that too, except that you 1. didn't post reasoning, and 2. are still really scummy.

What's most interesting, though, is that this contradicts:

Actually distad was a townie, so people on his wagon should be looked at, don't ya think?

Not to mention your comment on chaos below.

confirm Nom: ryan

highest and you're not blaming Chaos for hammering a townie? Are you screaming that you're scum or is it just me?

No, I'm not supporting craplogic like "Chaos, as last voter, voted the townie like 4 other people, rather than the guy of unknown alignment the other four people voted, so we're going to blame him for the lynch rather than DoS (who nominated a townie) and the other four people who voted for distad". Why do you ask?

[ryan]

mneme: Honestly tell me that somebody who hammers a townie is NEVER looked upon the next day. Good lord, it's not craplogic it's the way I've seen plenty of games played on here. I have no problems looking at the others who voted distad but I also can't say that I don't look a little closer at somebody who casts the deciding vote, how can you not?

By the way that first comment you quoted (in 386) is YOUR comment and not mine, although your lack of quoting skills has made it look that way

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Current nominees:

Ryan - 2 (mneme, ChaosOmega)
DoS - 1 (mneme)
FaerieLord - 1 (ChaosOmega)

I will be announcing my nominees, unofficially, by 10/25. That will give us 2 days for people to refute my chosen nominees, so that I can make changes and get the official nominations done by 10/27. 2 days left folks.

[mneme]

ryan: you don't seem to understand what a hammer is. I'd feel worse about that if I thought you were town, but I don't.

Hint: it's not "the person who makes the deciding vote."

The quoting was messed up, but clear enough given the closequote. Should be:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town

.

What does this prove? The only thing I can think of is you're thinking we should find you innocent because you "probably thought at the time he was town" that is craplogic at it's

[ryan]

ryan: you don't seem to understand what a hammer is. I'd feel worse about that if I thought you were town, but I don't.

Hint: it's not "the person who makes the deciding vote."

The quoting was messed up, but clear enough given the closequote. Should be:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town

.

What does this prove? The only thing I can think of is you're thinking we should find you innocent because you "probably thought at the time he was town" that is craplogic at it's

The hammer is the LAST vote on somebody, exactly what Chaos did, he hammered distad. How is this so hard to understand? How is it NOT the person who makes the deciding vote?

[FaerieLord]

@Chaos Omega.

1. I'll get a detailed analysis about trabony tomorrow. Half day at school, will surely have the time

2. Because KScope reread in a very short time, while I actually took my time

[DragonsofSummer]

I will

nominate mneme and ckillor

Mneme will probably call my nomination of him omgus, but he was my top suspect yesterday, and I really don't like the posting he has done so far today. Post 377 reeks of scum trying to make the town believe they are town by saying that they thought distad was probably town yesterday. Anyone can make that statement, and I don't like how he made it.

ckillor because he has still posted nothing of content, and keeps checking in to let us know he is here. He keeps saying I will post something later, but never does.

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos: Didn't you also nominate trabony/Skruffs on Day 1?

That's half right. I nominated trabony. Afterwards, Skruffs replaced in and I found him less suspicious than trabony. You, however, have said Skruffs is one of the most scummiest people in the game, but I never really saw any reasons by you for that claim.

As for the other question, are you just making this whole hammering issue to get suspicion off of yourself? Because I had to vote, and if Skruffs is a townie, you could have made the same argument, so it just looks like you're trying to find a way out from people suspecting you.

[ryan]

Chaos: Didn't you also nominate trabony/Skruffs on Day 1?

That's half right. I nominated trabony. Afterwards, Skruffs replaced in and I found him less suspicious than trabony. You, however, have said Skruffs is one of the most scummiest people in the game, but I never really saw any reasons by you for that claim.

As for the other question, are you just making this whole hammering issue to get suspicion off of yourself? Because I had to vote, and if Skruffs is a townie, you could have made the same argument, so it just looks like you're trying to find a way out from people suspecting you.

No, I'm irritated because of this argument of hammering. Hammering=the last person to vote somebody who is lynched and for some damn reason it's being argued that ISN'T what it means. I was saying that in games I've played on this site when a townie is lynched the last person is always seen as suspicious (apparently not here) All I asked was a little reasoning and something that made sense and instead I'm getting a ton of craplogic. I've had two nominations on me, hardly a reason to panic

[ryan]

Nominate: mneme

Call it OMGUS or whatever you want but this argument you and I are in, is completely stupid. I'd much rather see you under some pressure from the game to prove you are innocent.

[mneme]

DoS: Call it OMGUS? It -is- OMGUS. Can you point to any posts yesterday that indicated you were most suspicious of me? Any before I fingered you for nomination today?

Ryan: I'll explain it to you slowly.

A "hammer" is the vote that turns a bandwagon into a lynch.

The -reason- the person who drops a hammer is treated with suspicion, typically, is because they are the one who turned a bandwagon into a kill -- until they voted, the bandwagon could turn on anybody else in the town. As such, there's a chance that rather than being a townie looking to find out who the "right" person to lynch is, they're a scum who wanted to finish the lynch while it was on the right person (ie, someone who wasn't their buddy). Effectively, each vote for someone has a higher weight toward that person's lynch, because each is producing a greater increase in the probability/ease of that person being lynched, so the hammer has the highest weight, and therefore is due the most suspicion (all things being equal). An early hammer is even worse, as it demonstrably hurts the town unless it hits scum (and even then, you're often better off with a bit more discussion before lynching scum rather than a bit less).

In this game, however, bandwagons cannot turn (no unvotes), and everyone is required to vote for one of the two candidates. In the end, everyone is going to vote for one of two people, and -has- to choose one of the two people. An "early hammer" is possible -- if someone places the majority vote on a nominee long before the deadline, it cuts off discussion early (though in fact, the best time for discussion is pre-nomination, ie the time we're in now). But once you get near to the deadline and people start dropping votes down, there's no real difference between the first vote and the majority vote; waiting on your "hammer" vote isn't going to make the bandwagon shrink, so if discussion is basically done and you know who you're going to vote for, you vote. (if anything, its votes -past- the majority one on the winner that are suspect, particularly if they turn out to be scum, since scumbuddies might very well hold off in a tough election to see which way things will swing before deciding whether to pile on their buddy or save her). Completely different dynamic, and votes have a completely different weight.

Now, one can reasonably complain that a player didn't seem to -care- who they lynched (or cared too much). But that's as true for the first vote as the last, since people (who weren't DoS) were making a binary decision, not the complicated N-way timing-dependant decision more typical in a more traditional game.

Basically, if you're going to use terminology from more traditional games in this game, you're going to have to understand what it means and why it's important, because this manifestly -isn't- a normal mafia game, and must be taken on its own merits.

[ryan]

mneme: Listen, if you don't find Chaos suspicious or worth questioning for "casting the deciding vote on a proven townie" fine, I think it's foolhardy to not at least question him on why he thought distad was a better candidate than Skruffs. No matter what wording you want to use that's my argument.

[DragonsofSummer]

Wow... you sure proved me wrong...

First I didn't talk about my suspects as the day went on until Skruffs asked me. Just because it came after your post saying I should be on the block today just on principle doesn't mean anything, and you can try to twist it all you want, but thats just the way it is. Since I did not talk about suspicions of mine at all after my nominations until I was asked about it your trying to say I didn't mention you as scummy before you said anything is null.

[Pug89]

Nominate: ryan & mneme

ryan: because of the whole floater incident yesterday and because I don't like his continual insistance on the hammer issue. I think it should be taken into consideration, but without knowing Skruffs alignment ChaosOmega placing the hammer on distad is not particularly condemning.

mneme: I don't like his nomination of DOS nor when he says:

I told y'all that Distad was (probably, at the time) town