New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Ircher]

Seth's ISO (part of Kop's ) is really bugging me right now.

I'd also prob. be able to see that I see a pretty strong association between him and Copper.....

[SirCakez]

Zakk, Liger_zero and projectmatt have been prodded.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.5

The Empire State Building in the United States!

zakk (4) - Lowell, Titus, Shaziro, Ircher
projectmatt (2) - Aneninen, cytheflyguy
Aneninen (1) - projectmatt
cytheflyguy (1) - Kop
copper223 (1) - Nahdia
MagnaOfIllusion (1) - copper223
Kop (1) - Expedience
Ircher (1) - drmyshottyizsik
Titus (1) - zakk

Not voting (4) - Liger_zero, MagnaOfIllusion, Egg, Nosferatu

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-06-21 09:44:00) remain until day end.

[Shaziro]

Seth's ISO (part of Kop's ) is really bugging me right now.

I'd also prob. be able to see that I see a pretty strong association between him and Copper.....

What part of it?

[Ircher]

The beginning.

[Shaziro]

So mostly Seth? He was off to me too but I was told he was just a troll account.

[Ircher]

I'll have to look further too, but there are so many off things in his ISO.... (And I meant the beginning if Seth's ISO)

I suggest everyone rereads those two guys ISOs.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Seth and Kop ISO - DAY 2 - JUNE 12

1. 174 - "If I am scum that would be a serious problem, accidentaly lynching your own teammates or the sk, effectively reducing the kills per night in a large game will lead to your demise" -

No matter how many times we talk about it, it is a very weird statement to make that seems like a scumclaim by itself. Looking at the context, it seems to be in reference to Copper's 172: "My my, AtE for the rest of town to quick lynch me and possibly an attempt to tilt me in the same sentence? How evil. If you are scum you will also laugh hard no? I can see why that would be funny." which references Seth's 170 - "RVS is fair and just, because we will laugh hard if you flip scum.". Looking at those quotes, I don't see what prompted Seth to imply or even put up the if statement about Seth being scum; in fact, the entire thing seems worded in a way so as to appear like an accidental towntell. The post just seems unprompted and seems to serve only to garner towncred by appearing to be a towntell. -

Very Scummy (-4)

2. 178 - "Don't take it seriously Copper, I'm not like those idiots that chase at you with ropes for hanging just because you're Copper. This is getting too stupid, why can't we just get along, the adventure haven't started yet and we are already quarreling and sending death threats just because, all that preparations for nothing." -

If 170 was an RVS vote on Copper, then what does Copper say in 172 that makes Seth change his mind so quick? It must be related to the joke, but I get the feeling that Seth for some reason took 172 as serious where as I saw it as a continuation of the joke. Possibly, it could be in response to Copper's OMGUS in 177, but I don't see any town reasoning for just backing out of an OMGUS like that. Tbh, the whole Seth-Copper Interactions here feel like SvS and distancing of some sort. -

Scum (-3)

3. 182 - "I can't make my play based on what I honestly think, especially in a large game, you can say that "A" must be hanged because of "B" but the majority factor that influences the Day 1 lynching is luck, scumreads may not work all the time as everyone has different playstyles and personalities which makes it impossible to be always right with a scumread, the only thing we can do right now is to maximize that chances of flipping scum, I'm not confident yet in my reads to do that, it's all up to you my fellow town on this day and I will post my thoughts sometimes." -

Ugh... Another weird-sounding post that again really feels out of place. It's in response to 181 which states, "Alternatively you can tell me which one, if any, of {Robert, I am Innocent, Magma} is also scum.". Copper's question is really off (I'm pretty sure none of those people posted yet, or if they did, only one post which really doesn't say much), but so is Seth's response. Why does Seth need to type such a complex and confusing response when he could just state he's not sure at this point or something like that... Just doesn't make sense to me honestly and I feel the scum motives are more likely than town vibes (not to mention some big Seth/Copper association tells) -

Scum (-3)

4. 183 - "Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk as a mafia goon early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia." -

I find so many things wrong here. First, Seth is stating that Copper is a goon yet unvoted Copper like 5 or so posts ago. Second, Seth is assuming {Copper is assuming Seth is an SK} -- Where did you get that assumption? Why can't Copper think you're main-faction scum? Also, why do you assume SK over other scum faction? Too many bad assumptions being made here. -

Scummy (-2)

5. 646 - "I said lynching sk as a mafia goon, not me lynching sk as a mafia goon, I did not mention who is the mafia goon, therefore it couldn't be anyone in this game." -

Yes, you did implicitly say who was the goon: Since you were talking to Copper, it can be implied you were refering to Copper was the goon and you yourself was claiming SK. I looked at your join date and I find it hard to believe either 1) You're an alt of a person who's normally extremely confusing or 2) You're new to the site yet for some reason, get along EXTREMELY well with Copper. You two get along better than just banter, you two look like teammates. Getting back on-topic, your statement is more backtracking than anything; maybe you truly did think you weren't refering to anyone specific, but don't be trying to turn the tables when someone does make that (reasonable) assumption. -

Scum (-3)

6. 646 - "We should drop the cytheflyguy's wagon, he's a bad lynch, he's obviously new to the game and doesn't know that what's he saying will certainly lead to him being perceived as scummy." -

The way it's worded looks like scum whiteknighting a townie (There aren't enough scum in this game for Cy to be scum rn, you know, PoE) and it's a big distancing attempt from the Cy wagon that started to pick up steam. Seemed a convenient time to jump off the wagon. -

Scum (-3)

7. 649 - "Look at his join date and his posts and you will get the conclusion that he's unfamiliar with forum mafia yet, therefore new." -

Ok I guess, but you avoided the question altogether. Just because a player is new does not mean they cannot be scum, so your argument is invalid. -

Null-Scum (-1)

8. 811 - Votes TBG -

I don't buy the vote's reason (sure, I vote TBG at one point, but whether or not TBG was scum is beyond the point I'm making here) - Your vote occurred while TBG is your counterwagon and your reason sounds more like buzzword soup than anything. If this was coming from a town motive, then I would have likely seen more hesisitance or some form of evidence & not just buzzwords and a convenient jump. This alone perhaps wouldn't be a big deal except you've been flailing all day long and doing stuff that's scum-motivated. -

Null-Scum (-1)

9. 2452 - "If and when shotty flips scum, we can lynch his partner, zakk" -

I'm not impressed. Your last few posts were over why scummy newbies should be investigated rather than scumhunting. Now, this post in particular strikes me as scum - Rather than say "If", you state "If and when" implying you know more about Shotty's alignment than we do. But wait! You throw in Zakk as the partner..... The only thing that makes sense here imo is that you are indeed the SK and Seth accidentally slipped that info. -

Scummy (-2)

10. 2479 - "I am half aware there is a wagon. But right now I just feel that's it's more of a pressure wagon that will probably disintegrate. I however feel shotty Is the best wagon that will paint a picture better than zakk. On the off chance zakk is town then it is obviously pointing harder towards shotty but we can't afford to drop numbers over night." -

Ooh... Totally forgot about that, but Titus brought up a good point in the quoted post. What makes you think Zakk's wagon will disintegrate? How come Shotty is scum regardless? Why and how will Shotty pain a better picture than Zakk? I could perhaps see a Shotty, Kop, Copper team right now. -

Scum (-3)

Seth is attrocious and Kop doesn't look that great.

[zakk]

Lynch Titus

[Nahdia]

i almost feel like i should just do a fresh re-read of this game to actually figure out my reads.

[zakk]

don't reread. just be ignorant and vote random people

[projectmatt]

I actually have a day off tomorrow.

So, stuff then.

[Expedience]

I'm very sorry for being useless, I hope I can help when I get time later but my hold on this game is slipping.

[drmyshottyizsik]

getting to this

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, back in the saddle …

I’ve been reading along (as well as can be done) on my phone. I’ll be re-reading from the start of Day 2 and commenting over the next few days. But first thing’s first – my recap of the Night discussion in the Neighborhood QT which I’ve seen several requests for.

Copper opens saying the big question is if Titus is scum or not and suggesting he didn’t want to bother wasting time on paranoia regarding if anyone in the QT was scum or not. He wanted to come to a concensus on who to attack today and get reads that way.

Liger says he didn’t read Titus or either of us as scum. He also suggests there is a second Neighhborhood because someone mentioned it but due to my crap connection I didn’t get to ask him about that. Liger also shared some secondary information that isn’t worth mentioning directly at this point.

Copper says he would have pushed the counterwagon on KTS if Nahdia hadn’t lol hammered despite the fact that he thought the KTS lynch was BS due to Kill being a troll. Says Nahdia may be scum and Nos is almost too scummy to be scum but that Nos is still super suspicious. Calls Seth / Kop likely scum. Lastly says ETL is possibly scum for her reaction to Copper calling out her play and that something is off about Expedience.

Liger says he has similar thoughts about Expedience but it may be playstyle and has a soft-Town read on ETL.

I post that I don’t think either Titus or Expedience is scum. I have concerns about what I perceive to be possible buddying from ETL to me at the end of day that is ringing my gut alarm. I say Kill needs vigged as he purposefully plays to be unreadable regardless of alignment. I say Brawl and Shotty are scum and Kop maybe but that I think Seth is a Kill style Troll. Finally I am thinking of retracting my solid Town read on Egg due to his end of day posts which were all “too many page” prod dodging.

Copper suggests Brawl WKing his Counterwagon (Copper claims to be Pers) is a stretch.

--

If there is scum in the Neighborhood it is Copper. I’ll revisit his posting but to my recollection his play Day 2 has not lined up very closely with his claimed stances in the QT. His vote analysis posting as others have pointed out isn’t analysis but junk.

Liger is Town. Not changing this read.

[copper223]

His vote analysis posting as others have pointed out isn’t analysis but junk.

Change "others" with teammates, that is a collection of the votes that have been made this game, like I asked lowell and PM, are you claiming voting is not alignment indicative?

Now my interpretation may be junk, although since you're all so firm in the belief that it's junk when you supposedly wouldn't know anything about it as town it's probably spot on.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now my interpretation may be junk, although since you're all so firm in the belief that it's junk when you supposedly wouldn't know anything about it as town it's probably spot on.

No, it's junk because the premise itself is faulty and garbage. Garbage in, garbage out. Feel free to keep lobbing empty assertions to support your junk but that in a nutshell is the story.

[Lowell]

VOTE: cytheflyguy

I think this is scum. Looked through his ISO and I can't get a read that says town. And that vote seems more opportunistic than a genuine vote.

Here's an opportunistic vote. And whoa do I know opportunistic votes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kop

Still happy to vote zakk if we can. But since it's going nowhere, here's another idea. This reads very much like "shit who can I find who is a plausible vote, but not a current bandwagon, and isn't likely to come back at me." Even the way it is worded "I can't get a read that says town" is equivocal as whoa. It looks vaguely like coaching, but I don't think it is. I think just kop is scum.

[Ircher]

Ok, I cpuld do a Kop wagon.

Also a Copper wagon if anyone is up for it.

VOTE: Kop

[copper223]

No, it's junk because the premise itself is faulty and garbage. Garbage in, garbage out. Feel free to keep lobbing empty assertions to support your junk but that in a nutshell is the story.

The premise is that voting patterns are alignment indicative (relevant for those that did not get a scum PM).

[zakk]

I actually have a day off tomorrow.

So, stuff then.

I'm very sorry for being useless, I hope I can help when I get time later but my hold on this game is slipping.

getting to this

Excuse

after

Excuse

after

Excuse





Same, tho. This game got very boring and I'm demoralized af

[drmyshottyizsik]

I actually have a day off tomorrow.

So, stuff then.

I'm very sorry for being useless, I hope I can help when I get time later but my hold on this game is slipping.

getting to this

Excuse

after

Excuse

after

Excuse





Same, tho. This game got very boring and I'm demoralized af

Pretty much,
VOTE: titus
can we do this yet?
also this post actually looked pretty town

[drmyshottyizsik]

I actually have a day off tomorrow.

So, stuff then.

I'm very sorry for being useless, I hope I can help when I get time later but my hold on this game is slipping.

getting to this

Excuse

after

Excuse

after

Excuse





Same, tho. This game got very boring and I'm demoralized af

Pretty much,
VOTE: titus
can we do this yet?
also this post actually looked pretty town

[Egg]

Page 82:
Nos might actually be town for the comment about deathtunneling himself if Persivul is town. It shows a genuine belief in the read I think.

Ircher's extremely quick move from "someone explain the Persivul wagon, I don't have time" to "he's flailing, time to claim" doesn't feel natural. Who mentioned trajectory earlier? Was it Titus? This is bad trajectory right here. Remember Ircher's reads list? Persivul was listed as his top town read at 90% (unless you count his 100% on himself).

Page 83:
Shaziro calling ETL's Titus vote opportunistic is horse shit. Like what is the arguement for "ETL jumped off the lead wagon to start a new wagon because loldeadlineopportunism"?

Cy keeps reminding me why I was scumreading him earlier...

Page 84:
Lol at Liger's hammer. The lynch was inevitible at that point anyway.

Page 85:
Oh. I was sure it was hammer that time.

Expedience, what do you mean "everyone is a neighbor"?

Not sure what to make of Liger's unvote, but it stands out. I can see scum who just saw Persivul call out Expedience for changing position on the wagon and freaked out and I can see town who second guessed his read. Sorry for a non-read here, but I just can't tell what is more likely. I think I lean the town one because Persivul implied that Expedience was improving his position by being late on the wagon.

Page 86:
Noting that before being killed, ETL stated scum reads on drmy, copper, cy, myself, and huer (Shaziro). Not sure if Kop gets included there or not because of thewording. Bet we find a couple of scum in that list.

Page 87:
I don't know why we've gone into cop theory, but no you don't check scummy players or check people based on their experience level. You check ANYONE who is hard to read and who you think COULD be scum but isn't likely to be wagoned even though they aren't obvtown. Basically, the under the radar types but with some educated guesswork. You're trying to hit scum, but town results help because those are the players who live longer.

[cytheflyguy]

Ok, doe, as of NOW I am going to try to take this game seriously lol.

I only have one real reason why I'm voting Titus, but I feel it's an important one: She is too much in a leadership position for two people to be killed by non town to kill her.

The only way I can reasonably see that she is town is if someone attacked her, but they were either roleblocked, she had a bulletproof vest on, or the doctor healed her.

Wait-oh.
There were THREE Nightkills. More than enough for a Night.
The bolded part suggests that you actually

know

about a fourth Nightkill which went to Titus and it's missing now.
WTF?!

You're misinterpreting what I was saying lmao. I said

if

. Like, how can she be a powerful town player and someone not try to kill her? That just doesn't seem right imo.

That sort of night analysis, esp. if Titus is off in her reads, is stupid.

Just cuz you're leading the tiwn does not mean you are always right, and simetimes scum keep a town leader alive for that reason. I also don't get the 4 kill assumption either.

So if this is correct, and by tomorrow night she is still not dead, could it be safe to assume that her scum reads are wrong?