Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Kappy]

First!
VOTE: Kappy
He bothers me.

[Kappy]

VOTE: Sickofit1138
For following a wagon. Obvscum move.

[Kappy]

For self voting.

Don't judge my votes!

[Kappy]

I don't like RVS wagons because it's too easy for someone to accidentally hammer if they come in and don't read the thread.

[Kappy]

RVS is fun, though!

[Kappy]

I am voting for sickofit, not myself.

[Kappy]

I am voting for sickofit, not myself.

Derp. My bad.

Don't do that in the future.

[Kappy]

And...

Spoiler: Wait for it...

Pagetop!

[Kappy]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Sickofit1138
For following a wagon. Obvscum move.

lol i thought i was first post but to each his own...

first to post at all. i didnt know i was hopping on a wagon

i saw them and didnt chage it

If you saw them, you did know you were hopping on a wagon. But, you claimed you didn't know you were hopping on a wagon.

VOTE: sick

Maybe he just didn't feel like changing it.

[Kappy]

VOTE: Chumba
For not realizing I changed my vote.

[Kappy]

VOTE: Chumba
For not realizing I changed my vote.

There were two people that didn't realize your vote

before

that. Why change your vote now?

because this is RVS and I'm lazy.

[Kappy]

mod, my vote is on sick

Please review the rules of the game

Voting and day end

1. Voting shall use an automated Vote Counter. Please post all votes inside vote tags or bold tags on their own line. I will make an attempt to accommodate nicknames and other names, but this is a courtesy and not necessarily going to occur. It is your responsibility to make your votes readable to the counter, not visa versa.

VOTE: Persivul
For being stupid.

[Kappy]

because this is RVS and I'm lazy.

So, what is the point of the vote change? If you're lazy, it's much easier to keep your vote where it is.

It's like split personality syndrome. I'm too lazy to change my vote, but RVS is fun and I like to move my vote around.

[Kappy]

Kappy, what do you hope to achieve by moving your vote around?

Absolutely nothing. This is RVS.

[Kappy]

@kappy

Going back a bit. Why did you self vote?

To be funny.

[Kappy]

Actually Percivuls general misunderstanding and not reading the thread spells s-c-u-m-m-y to me at least

You have that backwards. People tend to be more careful as scum than as town.

You knowing that though just means you can play messy as scum and use that to your advantage

Yes, this is why people can't point out why they're town. It shows they knew they were playing like that, so they could've been scum playing like that on purpose. You have to let others point out why you're town.

[Kappy]

I think Sick was just confused.

[Kappy]

I can't speak to what he was thinking. I'm just saying that's how I interpreted it.

He told us what he was supposedly thinking. You don't need to guess at it or interpret it.

Either way I don't think it's that damning.

There are lots of issues on D1 that aren't that damning. Small issues can lead to bigger ones. Is it your policy to defend anyone against a charge that you don't find that damning? I doubt it, so...why are you defending in this case?

I'm not defending him. I'm just providing my opinion on a game relevant conversation. Otherwise known as playing the game...

[Kappy]

{}
{Goomba, Snork}
{Persivul, Mizzy, qubixes, karnos, species}
{Chumba, Sickofit} - Sick was originally strong scum read, but once explained himself it made sense.
{}
No strong reads atm. Most ppl are in null because they haven't posted much, or, in Persivul's case, just posted many short posts.

[Kappy]

you have your rod in the wrong hole.

That's what she didn't say.

[Kappy]

{Percy, Mizzy} - I know some people don't like him, but Percy seems towny. Mizzy's posts 123 and 128 struck me as great.
{Goomba, Chumba} - Chumba was originally moderate scum for his constant defense that seemed like trying to escape suspicion, but recently he's been helping town.
{qubixes, karnos, Dierfire, Shady, Snork} - Dierfire if you have connection issues we understand. Just try to post something meaningful sometime. I feel qubixes has a lot more thoughts that he's not posting. I'm not sure why my read on Snork changed, rereading I don't know why I had him as moderate town.
{species} - species has posted throughout today and yesterday, and his only helpful post was 101.
{Sick} - Sick's 152 bothers me. 134 seemed like an excuse not to scumhunt.

On Mizzy vs karnos: I feel like this is nothing major. While 123 did point out some mistakes on karnos's part, and it was good noticing (is that correct grammer?), I feel like it is actually nothing important.

Percy vs Sick will merit it's own post.

[Kappy]

Scum? just taking a wild guess here.

[Kappy]

Looked it up myself. it's true!
VOTE: karnos
By saying hiding players are scum, a scum player implies that they, by posting, are town.
Percy, thank you for that meta analysis. I'm generally too lazy to check meta.

[Kappy]

Looked it up myself. it's true!

What exactly did you look for?

I looked for karnos saying about the hiding in that open game. I had to see it myself, not saying I don't trust you or anything, but I don't trust anyone in mafia.

[Kappy]

Scum - Open 638 - "I don't like the hiding... it makes me think you have something to hide."

Yes, and as town...

1700 In my (brief) experience playing here, I've noticed scum are often the quiet players who post the minimum amount to keep suspicion off, without trying to draw attention to themselves.

1692 Of course, I also find the quietest players are often that because they are mafia trying to keep a low profile, and the annoying talky players are sometimes just poorly playing townies, so you may yet be innocent.

It's part of my general thought process every game.

Also, FYI, 638 was multiball. While I was scum, I was also scum hunting to kill the other scum team.

I see kappy is sensing weakness and pouncing. I'm feeling better about re-voting him.

I may unvote once I look at these games. Right now, I don't have much time, though.

[Kappy]

What is the difference between Mizzy vs. Karnos and Percy vs. Sick that makes you dismiss one out of hand but do an in-depth analysis on the other?

Completely different things. Mizzy vs Karnos seemed unimportant. I have a lot to say about Percy vs Sick, tho. Expect a big post from me later. Right now I have to run.

[Kappy]

I will UNVOTE: as promised.

Kappy certainly has an interesting relationship with Sickofit1138. It goes something like this: vote in 5, defending Sickofit1138 in 28 (shortly followed by moving the vote to Chumba in 30), vote for Persivul (who is voting for Sickofit1138) in 41, defending Sickofit1138 in 71, saying that Sickofit1138 was a strong Mafia read until he explained himself in 103 (I saw no evidence of a strong Mafia read and nothing from Sickofit1138 that should have soothed someone with such a strong read), reading Persivul strongly as Town in 181 while reading Sickofit1138 as Mafia

(yet still has a vote on Persivul)

, jumping to a wagon on karnos in 192, claiming to have looked into those previous games

(apparently still drafting that post about Persivul and Sickofit1138)

. The rapidly bouncing read looks strange to me, and I'm certainly interested in the post that Kappy promised.

I completely forgot I was voting Persivul. Sorry about that, Percy.
I was also on mobile last night. I had ideas for my Percy/Sick post, but wasn't able to type it up.

---

If Mizzy vs. Karnos seemed unimportant, then what was it that convinced you to jump onto the Karnos wagon? Just Chumba's comment?
Did you look at 638 prior to voting Karnos? If so, then why do you have to look at 1700 and 1692 before unvoting?
Are you still planning on posting a Percy vs. Sick analysis now that Percy is no longer voting Sick?

1. Yes, purely Chumba's comment. I tend not to do meta analysises (sounds like I should start) so I take it very seriously when someone else does.
2. Yes, I looked at 638. I had to look at 1700 and 1692 because he claimed he also talked about hiding there, and I had not reviewed those two.
3. Absolutely. Think of it this way, if someone votes for someone for being scummy, then changes their vote because someone else is scummier, do you forget all about the first person being scummy? No. So:

Spoiler: Lots of Stuff

MultiISOing Percy and Sick, here's what I found.

lol i thought i was first post but to each his own...

first to post at all. i didnt know i was hopping on a wagon

i saw them and didnt chage it

If you saw them, you did know you were hopping on a wagon. But, you claimed you didn't know you were hopping on a wagon.

VOTE: sick

This is where it all starts. Sickofit claims to have think he was the first poster, and didn't know he was on a wagon. Then he claims he saw the previews of the other posts, but didn't change his vote. Percy presses him for this, as if he saw the other posts, he knew he was on a wagon. I think this was just a misunderstanding and Sick should've worded it like this:

I originally intended to be the only vote on Kappy, but when I saw the other two posts, I decided to leave my vote where it was, even though I didn't intend to jump on a wagon.

Looking at it, even when it was cleared up, Persivul continued to push the issue. Not sure what to make of this.

---

Actually Percivuls general misunderstanding and not reading the thread spells s-c-u-m-m-y to me at least

You have that backwards. People tend to be more careful as scum than as town.

I just picked up on this.
Persivul according to this reasoning I would be town.

Uou are only using abject ice tells when they suit your case.
You reasoning is not solid and therefore you are my biggest scum read.

This is not a good post. By you pointing out that you are town, that could be WIFOM. You could be purposely careless scum being careless for the sole purpose of pointing that out. If someone else pointed out you were towny, rather than you yourself, I would be more likely to believe it.

---

Btw the reason I haven't been scum hunting as much as I would like us because I've been busy trying to explain some kind of "contradiction" in the RVS.

I just got started scum hunting, and someone interrupted it bringing up old news.

You can still reply to other people and also scumhunt. Before the person you are talking to replies, stick a quick reads post in there. This just seems like an excuse not to scumhunt.

---

I have a pitch.

We lynch persivul today: here's why:
If I am lynche today and flip town, persivul can weasel his way ou of a lynch tomorrow.
If Percy is lynche today and flips town, I won't be able to work my way out of tomorrows lynch.

I think everyone is picking a side in this argument, I think we will all agree this is not a TvT.

Lynch persivul today.

If he flips town:
If there is a jail keeper, jail me and kill me if you chose.
If there is cop, cop me.
If neither, I am a viable lynch tommorrow.

If he flips scum:
Then we get a d1 scum lynch. Youre welcome.


If you decide to lynch me today:
You Better lynch Percy tommorrow.

First of all: "tomorrow" only has one "m". Stop typing it "tommorrow"!
"If I am lynched today and flip town, persivul can weasel his way out of a lynch tomorrow" - Yes he can because he is already townier today. Why would we lynch the townier person first?

---

At this point, Sick posts a lot less and Persivul pushes Chumba instead. But this post:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

WTF?

---

You're not helping town by forcing yourself to be the center of attention. You should know that.

he's not hurting town either though. If anyone is hurting town atm it's the people who is making a mountain out of a molehill.

did you address your own contradiction yet? I haven't seen it if you did.

Oh my god thank you.

Sick, would you mind saying exactly what Persy's contradiction is? I don't see anything of the sort in his ISO, and you don't seem to have said anything about it. The only thing like a contradiction is that he missed Kappy changing his vote, and, um, that is entirely NAI.

I believe it's that I said that town is more likely to be sloppy than scum, and I was pressing him on a contradiction which he claims was just sloppiness.

As Percy points out, this contradiction is the "town are more likely to be scum" post. I think it's stupid how Sick still wants this addressed. Sick's pointing out why he was scum, could have been, as I pointed out earlier, WIFOM. It seems like Sick wants to trick Percy with this and have him admit Sick is town.

[Kappy]

VOTE: Sickofit1138

[Kappy]

and then there are the seven ancient swords

[Kappy]

oh whoops did i post that here i meant to say that in site chat

[Kappy]

Also, Kappy, I would like to point out that this from Persivul:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

That's just him talking about the NHL playoff game between the Sharks and the Penguins. I'm assuming he's a Penguins fan.

Oh. I don't watch hockey.

[Kappy]

Also, Kappy, I would like to point out that this from Persivul:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

That's just him talking about the NHL playoff game between the Sharks and the Penguins. I'm assuming he's a Penguins fan.

Oh. I don't watch hockey.

Neither do I. I just saw the ice part and googled like a champ.

Good Job!

[Kappy]

just announcing I'm leaving to go to Kansas: everyone expect posts even more rarely. I should have Internet, though, so I won't V/LA

[Kappy]

Sorry guys, but I am now in Kansas. I'll do my best to try to keep up.

[Kappy]

Oh, I guess that I could comment on 235 by Kappy.

@Kappy

Your read on Sickofit1138 in 181 sounded much stronger than the evidence that you presented in 235. In particular, you had cited his 134 and 152 when you first changed your read, but when you finally made the longer post your objections seemed to be that 134 was "an excuse" and that 152 is nonsensical. Are you able to further elaborate on why those things made you swing your read so strongly?

I called 134 an excuse in both posts. To clarify, I had said 152 bothered me, and I meant it bothered me for the reason I stated in 235, he seemed to be trying for an extra town lynch. Oh, and also that he mispelled tomorrow.

kappy

started off very weird in RVS. started to develop a significant wagon from those suspicious of his weird behavior, and predictably calmed down and started posting read lists and taking the game more seriously. I'm not too happy though that it seems once his wagon started to fade away so did his posting- A staggering 20 posts Wednesday, 6 Thursday, 7 Friday, final one explaining that he going away and will be posting even less frequently, and nothing yet today. More damning is the fact that his last 5 or so posts are totally game irrelevant, stuff like miss-posts and talk about hockey. Almost sensing that he was only acting town long enough to break away from a wagon- of course that didn't fully work, as he still has several votes to his name.

I tend to do that. After RVS, I find it's hard for me to maintain a high post count. It seems like there is no reason to post much, besides answering people's questions and posting reads. I wasn't able to post yesterday because I was going away. Now that I have successfully reached "away", I will hope to continue posting until I return from "away" next Saturday.

---

I feel like there was someone addressing me that I missed. I think it was either Persivul or Saru. Can you repost any questions for me, because I cannot find the old post for the life of me!

[Kappy]

On rereading, one thing that jumped out at me was that, when Kappy was wagoned, he became less active.

Karnos's 359 mentions that Kappy was much more active on Wednesday. However, he then says that Kappy had more of a wagon then than he does now. This is wrong. Check GreyICE's ISO for the votecounts; the maximum wagon Kappy reached Wednesday was 3 players, and it disintegrated quickly. For most of the past few days, Kappy has had 4-5 players on his wagon.

Now, I personally feel that that's more likely to come from apathetic town, but I went and looked at his first newbie game and

he did the exact same thing there.

Do with that what you will.

I tend to do that. After RVS, I find it's hard for me to maintain a high post count.

[Kappy]

I tend to do that. After RVS, I find it's hard for me to maintain a high post count.

I have an idea that will increase your post count, how about answering my questions?

Good idea!

Also, seeing as you're at L-2, care to post your thoughts about the people who are voting for you? What do you make of them and their reasons(if any) for voting you?

Saru:

It seems like he is voting for me because he doesn't like the content of my posts. I don't really know what to say to this.

Mecha:

He just doesn't like 235, since he claims it is all recycled. That may be true, but I was placing my opinion on it, since I hadn't mentioned my opinion before.

Dierfire:

He just commented on the weird association between me and Sick. I just want to point out that I scumread Sick, but I have to UNVOTE: for now to give his replacement a chance.
Is that what you want?

[Kappy]

I tend to do that. After RVS, I find it's hard for me to maintain a high post count.

I have an idea that will increase your post count, how about answering my questions?

Good idea!

Also, seeing as you're at L-2, care to post your thoughts about the people who are voting for you? What do you make of them and their reasons(if any) for voting you?

Saru:

It seems like he is voting for me because he doesn't like the content of my posts. I don't really know what to say to this.

Mecha:

He just doesn't like 235, since he claims it is all recycled. That may be true, but I was placing my opinion on it, since I hadn't mentioned my opinion before.

Dierfire:

He just commented on the weird association between me and Sick. I just want to point out that I scumread Sick, but I have to UNVOTE: for now to give his replacement a chance.
Is that what you want?

Yes. Also, give me your read list.

I don't exactly have one at the moment... I am in Kansas, you know, so my focus isn't exactly on Mafia.

[Kappy]

You'll be in Kansas until next Saturday, right? That means you won't be focused on this game for a whole week. The deadline is in 9 days from now. Don't you think that calls for a replacement? Not even kidding. Not contributing for a whole week while you have a good amount of suspicion on you will either lead to a policy lynch or replacement. I really prefer the latter at the moment.

I'm sorry. I didn't meanI wouldn't be focused at all, I just meant Mafia isn't my

main

focus. I still expect to be active enough not to need a replacement.

[Kappy]

Actually I missed exactly what you quoted, I thought you were posting the other part of his message.

"there aren't that many scum in the game"

is incredibly specific, when I only indicated 4 potential scum. It means there are 3 or fewer scum in the game.

I think you're reading it the wrong way. He says that you need more town reads than scum reads, because there are more town than scum in the game. You had 4 scum reads and 3 town reads, so I don't see this "scum slip". He doesn't say here that there can't be 4 scum in the game (though unlikely).

Yes, he meant "there aren't that many scum" referring to there not being enough scum to have more scum than town.

[Kappy]

w/e. I can see I am in the minority on this thought. All the same, I was reading him as scummy before and after that post for other reasons,

even if the slip isn't as telling as I think it is I am still voting him.

If there's no actual slip, just your misinterpretation, why would you vote for him? I don't understand that.
VOTE: karnos

[Kappy]

w/e. I can see I am in the minority on this thought. All the same,

I was reading him as scummy before and after that post for other reasons

,

even if the slip isn't as telling as I think it is I am still voting him.

If there's no actual slip, just your misinterpretation, why would you vote for him? I don't understand that.
VOTE: karnos

WTF dude, he addresses that in the very post you quote.

Now I feel stupid. UNVOTE:

[Kappy]

All these huge posts, it's hard to follow. Trying to catch up.

[Kappy]

Now I feel stupid. UNVOTE:

Why? Do you think his other reasons are good?

I didn't see these other reasons, I was voting on the basis that there were no other reasons.

[Kappy]

Welcome, Johnny!

[Kappy]

My responses are in green.

312 MechaGoomba quotes a massive wall of quotes, just to reply "I have no idea what you're saying. Please try again with more explanation and fewer typos."

He used an EBWODP to explain he had not meant to quote. I think that is fine, since the phpBB quote feature can be unreliable.

324 MechaGoomba "OK you see that post at the top of the page? Go read it. If you've already read it, reread it. Then make a coherent response to it.

Whats wrong with this? Mecha was just telling them to read his post again.

[Kappy]

Oh, I forgot.
VOTE: karnosVOTE:

[Kappy]

Oops.
VOTE: karnos

[Kappy]

NOTE: Karnos is currently at L-2.

You're welcome.

[Kappy]

My responses are in green.

312 MechaGoomba quotes a massive wall of quotes, just to reply "I have no idea what you're saying. Please try again with more explanation and fewer typos."

He used an EBWODP to explain he had not meant to quote. I think that is fine, since the phpBB quote feature can be unreliable.

324 MechaGoomba "OK you see that post at the top of the page? Go read it. If you've already read it, reread it. Then make a coherent response to it.

Whats wrong with this? Mecha was just telling them to read his post again.

Individually, neither is bad. But then you have this

"Communication is a two way street. Both the speaker and the listener bear blame when miscommunication happens. To blame the listener ("you're not reading") when you're the speaker and blame the speaker ("creating confusion") when you're the listener is untenable."

.

Basically, I see Mecha REFUSING to communicate because of typos or poor writing, and then refusing to repeat an argument, because.. why? he is lazy? Whatever, it's okay.

But then he goes on to make some big point about how communication is critical and trying to throw blame around is unacceptable... WHAT? He is just being a huge hypocrite, I don't see any other way to read it..

So the last post is bad. Okay. I agree. But the doesn't make the other two bad.

[Kappy]

scum with GreyICE and when GreyICE attacked you

Yes, GreyICE actually is scum. He's not part of the Mafia, though. Because he's the mod, he's part of the Modafia!

[Kappy]

So many replacements!

[Kappy]

I don't really have anything to add right now. I can reiterate- I will claim if we get to L-1 with intent to hammer, but I'd rather not have to claim for obvious reasons.

I would expect you to wait till L-1 with intent.

[Kappy]

@Kappy

Your read on Sickofit1138 in 181 sounded much stronger than the evidence that you presented in 235. In particular, you had cited his 134 and 152 when you first changed your read, but when you finally made the longer post your objections seemed to be that 134 was "an excuse" and that 152 is nonsensical. Are you able to further elaborate on why those things made you swing your read so strongly?

I called 134 an excuse in both posts. To clarify, I had said 152 bothered me, and I meant it bothered me for the reason I stated in 235, he seemed to be trying for an extra town lynch. Oh, and also that he mispelled tomorrow.[/quote]
This one isn't quite an answer to my question. My point is that your stated reasons in 235 do not match the strength of your stated suspicion in 181. Are you able to further elaborate on why those reasons are stronger than I think, or why your read was weaker than I think?[/quote]
I don't think 181's reasons were paticularly strong. Yes, Sick was a strong scumread, but I thought 235 was sufficient explanation.

[Kappy]

@Mecha -- Assuming Karnos is scum, who do you think is scum with him?

I know this question isn't for me, but I feel that if karnos is scum, he has done a good job avoiding implicating his scum partner. I have no idea who it might be.

[Kappy]

@Mod: I will be V/LA 6/20 to 6/24

[Kappy]

I'm a flavor cop.

By this, do you mean you determine the flavor of a player's role PM?

A Neopoliton is a cop who determines whether someone is a vanilla townie or not.

[Kappy]

EBWODP: Neapolitan

[Kappy]

since scum have daytalk

Um, what? The rules say nothing about daytalk. In fact, the Normal Game page specifically says that daytalk can only exist if the rules say so, or if there's an Encryptor.
Does anyone else see this as a scumslip or am I just being paranoid?

This looks scummy.
VOTE: Masquerade

[Kappy]

Oh... didn't see that. Now I feel stupid. UNVOTE: