Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Saru]

And actually this is unrelated to this game but unfortunately I need to

request replacement

I realize this site isn't the right place for me. Good luck everyone.

Guess my questions won't be answered now.
Good luck.

[Dierfire]

All right, I'm back online and reading now.

[Sickofit1138]

Fosing Percy, mecha and species/Kappy.

Mecha has been acting like he has been reading th thread and isoing and whatnot but has missed something I posted like twice.

[Dierfire]

Here are some thoughts. Actually, this is a long post, so I'm breaking it in half.

I'm reading Persivul as Town. Striking against the seeming contradiction by Sickofit1138 (27) and sticking to that line (64, 137) helps advance the game. More importantly, updating the read (150) is consistent with an attempt to read Sickofit1138 (and accords with some of my impressions, see below). Also, the read on ShadyHood (151) is good (and how many Mafia players look up the ages of other players?) and the use of previous games to read players (Sickofit1138 in 150, karnos in 185 and 190) requires a degree of effort that I'd say reflects an attempt to read other players.

I'm reading Chumba as Town. The vote on Kappy in 29 is fine; ideally Town players would never do what Kappy did there. Following that push in 43, 46, and beyond feels strong. I believe her when she says that she interpreted Sickofit1138 as being open to a future wagon rather than trying to create one (60), especially given her rather specific definition of a wagon. It's difficult for me to explain exactly why, but in 70 and 74 I do not read her as trying to defend Sickofit1138. Rather, I read her as commenting on a major feature of the game at that point (and so I specifically disagree with MechaGoomba in 76 and subsequent pushes, but I don't believe that he's Mafia there because he revises his read in 88). Her more recent encounter with Persivul (162, 163, 167, 170, 173, 178, 179) feels like Town/Town to me, both because I'm reading them as Town individually and because their positions (Persivul says Chumba is incorrect while asking how his vote factors into her read, Chumba acknowledges Persivul's points but maintains her read) are logical and appropriate responses to each other. I'm leaning toward saying the same about her encounter with Saru on the last page, but haven't thought it through fully yet.

I guess that I'll tack on the miscellaneous section to this half:

I agreed with posts by qubixes (33) and Snork (95, 96). I haven't settled on whether I'm reading them as Town, but probably I will be.

I didn't look into the previous games that karnos played that a few other players discussed. Mostly this seemed like a distraction to me but I'll get to it eventually just to make sure.

[Dierfire]

Sickofit1138 is a difficult read for me. Certain posts (73, 126, 134) are the sorts of things that I don't want to read as Town, but do. I think that most posts to the effect of "only Mafia would be pushing me here" come from Town players, and certainly fit the exaggerated emotional tone that Sickofit1138 is showing. On the other hand, posts like 152 feel

too

exaggerated, especially with Persivul backing off in 150. I might be able to make this read dependent upon Kappy.

Kappy certainly has an interesting relationship with Sickofit1138. It goes something like this: vote in 5, defending Sickofit1138 in 28 (shortly followed by moving the vote to Chumba in 30), vote for Persivul (who is voting for Sickofit1138) in 41, defending Sickofit1138 in 71, saying that Sickofit1138 was a strong Mafia read until he explained himself in 103 (I saw no evidence of a strong Mafia read and nothing from Sickofit1138 that should have soothed someone with such a strong read), reading Persivul strongly as Town in 181 while reading Sickofit1138 as Mafia (yet still has a vote on Persivul), jumping to a wagon on karnos in 192, claiming to have looked into those previous games (apparently still drafting that post about Persivul and Sickofit1138). The rapidly bouncing read looks strange to me, and I'm certainly interested in the post that Kappy promised.

Snork also noted a possible associations between these slots, and MechaGoomba raised an objection.

This is kind of funny if it's what I think it is.

You are of the opinion that 2 scum are voting the towniest-looking player in the game, start of day 1, and no one else is?
I'm afraid I have to ask why scum would ever do such a thing.

The answer that comes to my mind is that Kappy and Sickofit1138 each had three votes with no other major wagons (as of 27), so the desire to move votes away and perhaps open another wagon should be fairly strong. On the other hand, Kappy is suspicious even if Sickofit1138 is Town here.

VOTE: Kappy

My count agrees with Persivul's; this is the fourth vote for Kappy.

That's all for now.

[ShadyHood]

I am going to vote Kappy if he doesn't try to defend himself. His recent posts are inappropriate for his situation, like he's not playing to win, if he is that problematic a lynch is reasonable here, more than Persivul.

[Mizzytastic]

I'm not going to be around today. I've been spending too much time on this site to the detriment of other stuff since I found it and I feel ill so taking a 24 hour break.

[MechaGoomba]

Mecha has been acting like he has been reading th thread and isoing and whatnot but has missed something I posted like twice.

Would you mind telling me what it is, please? If I'm missing something important, then the pro-town action is to tell me so I can update my thought process, not to use it as a weapon.

Kappy certainly has an interesting relationship with Sickofit1138.

I pretty much agree with your analysis, and, combined with his continual question dodging, I'm going to VOTE: Kappy until explanations materialize.

The answer that comes to my mind is that Kappy and Sickofit1138 each had three votes with no other major wagons (as of 27), so the desire to move votes away and perhaps open another wagon should be fairly strong.

I don't understand this. Percy is at the top of a lot of people's townlists, and, without really good arguments, that doesn't seem likely to change. Why not push the wagon on karnos instead? They had plenty of opportunity to, since it was a pretty viable wagon, but they both ignored it until there was seemingly-damning evidence, and then only Kappy jumped on.
For that to make sense with Sick and Kappy both being scum, karnos would also have to be scum, and at that point we're talking about having fingered the entire scumteam day 1, which does not happen unless one of the players is a god of scumhunting.

I could potentially see them both being scum, especially given how Sick conspicuously ignores Kappy, but something about it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to do preflip associatives if at all possible. Could you help me figure this out?

[MechaGoomba]

PS: This is L-2 for Kappy. Count your votes carefully to avoid derphammer.

[Snork]

Back from my nieces graduation. Catching up today.

[Kappy]

I will UNVOTE: as promised.

Kappy certainly has an interesting relationship with Sickofit1138. It goes something like this: vote in 5, defending Sickofit1138 in 28 (shortly followed by moving the vote to Chumba in 30), vote for Persivul (who is voting for Sickofit1138) in 41, defending Sickofit1138 in 71, saying that Sickofit1138 was a strong Mafia read until he explained himself in 103 (I saw no evidence of a strong Mafia read and nothing from Sickofit1138 that should have soothed someone with such a strong read), reading Persivul strongly as Town in 181 while reading Sickofit1138 as Mafia

(yet still has a vote on Persivul)

, jumping to a wagon on karnos in 192, claiming to have looked into those previous games

(apparently still drafting that post about Persivul and Sickofit1138)

. The rapidly bouncing read looks strange to me, and I'm certainly interested in the post that Kappy promised.

I completely forgot I was voting Persivul. Sorry about that, Percy.
I was also on mobile last night. I had ideas for my Percy/Sick post, but wasn't able to type it up.

---

If Mizzy vs. Karnos seemed unimportant, then what was it that convinced you to jump onto the Karnos wagon? Just Chumba's comment?
Did you look at 638 prior to voting Karnos? If so, then why do you have to look at 1700 and 1692 before unvoting?
Are you still planning on posting a Percy vs. Sick analysis now that Percy is no longer voting Sick?

1. Yes, purely Chumba's comment. I tend not to do meta analysises (sounds like I should start) so I take it very seriously when someone else does.
2. Yes, I looked at 638. I had to look at 1700 and 1692 because he claimed he also talked about hiding there, and I had not reviewed those two.
3. Absolutely. Think of it this way, if someone votes for someone for being scummy, then changes their vote because someone else is scummier, do you forget all about the first person being scummy? No. So:

Spoiler: Lots of Stuff

MultiISOing Percy and Sick, here's what I found.

lol i thought i was first post but to each his own...

first to post at all. i didnt know i was hopping on a wagon

i saw them and didnt chage it

If you saw them, you did know you were hopping on a wagon. But, you claimed you didn't know you were hopping on a wagon.

VOTE: sick

This is where it all starts. Sickofit claims to have think he was the first poster, and didn't know he was on a wagon. Then he claims he saw the previews of the other posts, but didn't change his vote. Percy presses him for this, as if he saw the other posts, he knew he was on a wagon. I think this was just a misunderstanding and Sick should've worded it like this:

I originally intended to be the only vote on Kappy, but when I saw the other two posts, I decided to leave my vote where it was, even though I didn't intend to jump on a wagon.

Looking at it, even when it was cleared up, Persivul continued to push the issue. Not sure what to make of this.

---

Actually Percivuls general misunderstanding and not reading the thread spells s-c-u-m-m-y to me at least

You have that backwards. People tend to be more careful as scum than as town.

I just picked up on this.
Persivul according to this reasoning I would be town.

Uou are only using abject ice tells when they suit your case.
You reasoning is not solid and therefore you are my biggest scum read.

This is not a good post. By you pointing out that you are town, that could be WIFOM. You could be purposely careless scum being careless for the sole purpose of pointing that out. If someone else pointed out you were towny, rather than you yourself, I would be more likely to believe it.

---

Btw the reason I haven't been scum hunting as much as I would like us because I've been busy trying to explain some kind of "contradiction" in the RVS.

I just got started scum hunting, and someone interrupted it bringing up old news.

You can still reply to other people and also scumhunt. Before the person you are talking to replies, stick a quick reads post in there. This just seems like an excuse not to scumhunt.

---

I have a pitch.

We lynch persivul today: here's why:
If I am lynche today and flip town, persivul can weasel his way ou of a lynch tomorrow.
If Percy is lynche today and flips town, I won't be able to work my way out of tomorrows lynch.

I think everyone is picking a side in this argument, I think we will all agree this is not a TvT.

Lynch persivul today.

If he flips town:
If there is a jail keeper, jail me and kill me if you chose.
If there is cop, cop me.
If neither, I am a viable lynch tommorrow.

If he flips scum:
Then we get a d1 scum lynch. Youre welcome.


If you decide to lynch me today:
You Better lynch Percy tommorrow.

First of all: "tomorrow" only has one "m". Stop typing it "tommorrow"!
"If I am lynched today and flip town, persivul can weasel his way out of a lynch tomorrow" - Yes he can because he is already townier today. Why would we lynch the townier person first?

---

At this point, Sick posts a lot less and Persivul pushes Chumba instead. But this post:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

WTF?

---

You're not helping town by forcing yourself to be the center of attention. You should know that.

he's not hurting town either though. If anyone is hurting town atm it's the people who is making a mountain out of a molehill.

did you address your own contradiction yet? I haven't seen it if you did.

Oh my god thank you.

Sick, would you mind saying exactly what Persy's contradiction is? I don't see anything of the sort in his ISO, and you don't seem to have said anything about it. The only thing like a contradiction is that he missed Kappy changing his vote, and, um, that is entirely NAI.

I believe it's that I said that town is more likely to be sloppy than scum, and I was pressing him on a contradiction which he claims was just sloppiness.

As Percy points out, this contradiction is the "town are more likely to be scum" post. I think it's stupid how Sick still wants this addressed. Sick's pointing out why he was scum, could have been, as I pointed out earlier, WIFOM. It seems like Sick wants to trick Percy with this and have him admit Sick is town.

[Kappy]

VOTE: Sickofit1138

[Saru]

Kappy, you do understand that Persivul put a townread onto Sick, right? Go look at posts 150 and 157. Not sure what you mean by Sick trying to trick Persivul into admitting he's town as Persivul already townreads Sick, at-least from his most recent reads post.

You say that:

3. Absolutely. Think of it this way, if someone votes for someone for being scummy, then changes their vote because someone else is scummier, do you forget all about the first person being scummy?

But it seems that Persivul didn't switch his vote onto you because he found you SCUMMIER than Sick, rather he just finds you to be scum and Sick to now be "town to some degree" as he puts it.

Also, it's not WIFOM for Sick to use Persivul's reasoning to show that he's town because Persivul himself at that point had accused Sick of being scum for the wagon contradiction. It feels more like Sick was trying to catch Persivul is his own little contradiction, which I think he did. Basically, Sick isn't claiming to be anything, just using Persivul's own logic against him. That's how I read it anyways.

Lastly, I find it odd that you don't like it when Sick is still pushing the contradiction issue with Persivul, but all of sudden you don't know what to make of it when Persivul was pushing onto Sick for his wagon thing even though you admit that Sick had cleared that up. If you're not sure about one person doing the same action as another person whose actions you don't like, that just seems like you're cherry-picking actions and reasoning based on the person rather than the actual action or reason. Not good.

Huge FoS/AoS: Kappy

I said I was gonna change my tell on you based on your Sick vs. Persivul post, and seeing as most of it is filled with terrible reasoning, you're a nullscum read for me now. Also, seeing as you're at L-2, care to post your thoughts about the people who are voting for you? What do you make of them and their reasons(if any) for voting you?

[Saru]

Also, Kappy, I would like to point out that this from Persivul:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

That's just him talking about the NHL playoff game between the Sharks and the Penguins. I'm assuming he's a Penguins fan.

[karnos]

I like dierfire's entry, lots of good reads. Sorry to see chumba is replacing out, but it'll be very interesting to see how the new player plays in the same slot.

Kappy, thanks for clarifying, that removes the main reason I had for voting you. So lets try this again

UNVOTE: kappy

[Kappy]

and then there are the seven ancient swords

[Kappy]

oh whoops did i post that here i meant to say that in site chat

[Saru]

[Kappy]

Also, Kappy, I would like to point out that this from Persivul:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

That's just him talking about the NHL playoff game between the Sharks and the Penguins. I'm assuming he's a Penguins fan.

Oh. I don't watch hockey.

[Saru]

Also, Kappy, I would like to point out that this from Persivul:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

That's just him talking about the NHL playoff game between the Sharks and the Penguins. I'm assuming he's a Penguins fan.

Oh. I don't watch hockey.

Neither do I. I just saw the ice part and googled like a champ.

[Kappy]

Also, Kappy, I would like to point out that this from Persivul:

Sharks rule the water...Penguins rule the ice!

That's just him talking about the NHL playoff game between the Sharks and the Penguins. I'm assuming he's a Penguins fan.

Oh. I don't watch hockey.

Neither do I. I just saw the ice part and googled like a champ.

Good Job!

[Saru]

Thanks! Now reply to my post! kthxbai

[karnos]

Kappy

- I read him as acting a bit silly and random in and shortly after RVS, but that isn't obviously scum indicative. His recent post has been better. (nulltown)

sickofit

- If this was a random player I have never played with before in this slot, I'd be reading him as scum. Knowing him from 640, I have to upgrade that some. sickofit: if you are town, please post more carefully and think before submitting. Also: don't self hammer (null)

persivul

- I had a strong town vibe for him yesterday, but now I am really starting to wonder, especially given the town vibe I had for him in 640 in which I just discovered he was actually scum. (nullscum)

VOTE: persivul

[Saru]

That puts persivul at

L-2

. Tread carefully people.

[Sickofit1138]

Kappy that "wifom post"

was not to say im town but to say that if he applies it to himself then the same should apply to me, or neither of us.