Mini 1781: Plotinus Mafia: Game Over

[Roshar]

ahhh, 9 pages! Confirming. Haven't read them yet, but promise to do so soon. Apologies for being late, was really busy the past two days.

Also, beeboy, is that you? : D

[Roshar]

Hey Ircher! : )

Excuse me if my brain is barely keeping up. I just read 24 pages of mafia. I'm at the state where I have to repeat things a couple times before I register them.

Let's see. Not much stood out for me in the first couple of pages.

Dav - his post before he replaced where he gave his reads gave me a town read.

Ircher's case on Gork. Post 141. Point 3 I think is a neutral statement, and 4 I could be wrong, but I think he meant it in the sense that he'd get Nk'd for giving out a power role (and if that power role isn't mafia) and that's the reason for the paranoia. There's good chances that Ircher will be hit if he's town. No point hiding it. If he's not mafia, mafia will go after him. Was plot ever a doctor? /wiggles eyebrows. Overall, though can't relate to this case.

@xkfyu, why do you think androgybee is probably town?

Maruchan. That's when things got interesting. 77 He's taking the game very seriously and looks invested. But I don't find it AI, which is why I agree with Maru in that it is odd Gorkington had a townlean of Maru so early. I also had the same thought as fire assassin about Gorke's quick early reads but I'm thinking this is Gorke's play style.

Anywho, I think Maru genuinely believes his points.

Now what came after with Xkfyu voting for him was pretty interesting. And it took him a while to find it scummy. I don't agree with this:

If he didn't pick up on it, then I think it is still more likely to come from scum, because I believe scum would be more quick to jump something like that, without giving it a second thought, than town.

Town can be as well. If this was Maru's only point, I'd consider this argument, but he had like 4 other points (granted, I didn't understand what he saw as scummy) but he had them. Xfyu, What took you so long to vote for Maru? Why didn't you do it outright after he posted his wall post?

Ircher voting for Gorke's case after he just had a case on Gorke is giving me a town read on Ircher. Being able to read a post and agree with it's contents, and join the wagon of the guy who you were voting is town.

That being said, I'm jumping on it as well. The reasoning behind his response to not being answered was good.


VOTE: Fire Assassin

[Roshar]

Right, so biggest town read goes to Androgybee for post 222, followed by 223 and her thoughts on xfyu. I can agree with most of what she said on post 222.

Post 220 Not sure what Aristophanes current view on fire, but his vote on Fire looks like RVS, but then he later finds fire's post 101 scummy.
@Aristo, Is your current vote based on 101? Do you find it strange Ircher was voting Gork?
Other than that, not much content here despite the wall post.

Don't know what to make of Fire's reaction to his wagon. No town or scum lean. His lack of content and looking for scum could be b/c he's got a wagon on him but meh, remains null.

I like Gork's 232. Interest in getting a better assassin read.

Not mafia's 237, is that an actual consideration?

Not_mafia is a null read for me. None of his comments speak to me.
@not_mafia, whats your read on xfyu?


@Maru, do you think if scum had an extra vote on them, (yet they're many votes away from a lynch) they'd freak out in the dt? If you'd argued wifom, that would be a diff matter, but that still wouldn't lead you to an alignment as it could go both ways.
So, maru, you admit that gorke turns everything into a joke, yet, you don't consider this to be one as well?

Gork's 325 makes gork a strong town read. There was a thought process behind his reasons and he was able to give them days after.

329, I'd have prefered a, "and why am I scummish?" part too. Obvious and I may be picky, but would have felt more neutral.

Don't like Iecerint's entrance, but it gets better with 372 and 385 and 388.



@Iecerint's, so you think Gorke's probably scum from the active players, and that makes you think Fire is scummy b/c he's Gorke's wagon? Is that it?

Chamber's 391

I think this is a giant leap and manufactured.


VOTE: Chamber

[Roshar]

@

Iecerint

Post 336 338 and 339 The scum and town reads. No explanation, just, "I think he's scum, town, scum" . Post 339 in particular, the logic behind it I couldn't follow. 344 you want to join Gorke's wagon, but you think Gorke's scum, correct me if I'm wrong? (you later found out it was Gorke who began the wagon, but still not sure where it fits in here)
I might have to iso Gorke, but last I remember from him, Ircher was a town read for him. Which other town reads does he try to discredit?

In terms of the vapidness from fire, I've been accused as town and when people tend to wagon it, it's plausible that one disengages from the game and loses interest in scum hunting. But there's also other emotions that accompany that I'm not seeing. Like anger/bitterness at being voted wrongly.

In terms of chamber's post 391. He finds this a, "giant leap in a bad way. Something scum may have manufactured thought about" :

Dav is town for this effort he's put together imo. Scum will try to look pro-town whereas this is a big plus to towns wincon. I buy it. Would help but phone posting at work ^_~

Right, so if you had pointed this out yourself, and called it a big jump and manufactured, I'd consider it super paranoid town. But the fact that you posted it in reply to iecerint's defense of androgybee, comes across as an effort to maintain your stance on androgy, i.e, manufactured. The reasoning in iteself is a huge jump, "he's scum, but he's appearing to look town by doing something town". I cannot see how town would feel that strongly about that statement.

@chamber

, not trying to make fun of you. Just found your statement odd for the same reasons you found androgy's statement odd.
Also, same question as Gorke, which points did you find you related to with fire assassin?

[Roshar]

Catching up

[Roshar]

Yo beeboy! It's been a while, looking forward to seeing your new and improved playstyle : ) ( hopefully it doesn't include tunneling me all game? : P Good times)

he's scum, but he's appearing to look town by doing something town

That's not what I said. Scum try to appear town looking, this means doing things that are lightly protown (like giving a town read). That looked to me like scum giving a town read not like town giving a town read.

And how does one differentiate between the two? Esp in such an early post.

Not nearly as much to catch up on from the weekend as I expected. I guess everyone else had a busy weekend too.

Anyways, I'm still leaning scum on Maruchan. I'm also thinking that Roshar is scum based on his over exaggeration of my stance on Maruchan.

I don't like the Fire Assassin wagon, though. I think Gork is probably town, but

if I'm right about Fire Assassin being town, then I think Aristophanes and M&B are decent picks for scum.

I also think Ircher is probably town.

her* You're like the 5th person now. /sigh

Over-exaggeration? Is it not a concern to feel like a vote was contrived b/c of it's timing, knowing that you were there when maru posted that enormous wall? Knowing that you had been getting some pressure from gorke about when you plan on changing your vote?

Now in your defense, you were indeed engaged in discourse with gorke. Which is why I left it. But, one can't help but notice that you were getting pressured to move your vote off Smudger. And how easy it was to make a case on Maru for his literal view of Gorke's statement.

Can you explain the bold statement more thoroughly please?

Also, same question as Gorke, which points did you find you related to with fire assassin?

not sure i understand this?

You had asked Chamber which points he related to with fire assassin. I also wanted this answered.

@Fire assassin

, talk to me about why you think Chamber is town. Xfyu too if you can.

[Roshar]

@Chamber, Looking back at it, I believe Action Dan had given his read on Davsto first. So, in that regard, Androgy post didn't bring anything original. Second point in her post as well was recycled. Don't know how in ISO this stood out to you, but within context it actually looks like a 'blending in' post.

Don't get offensive.


@Xfyu,

I agree that Aristophanes vote on Fire was RSV, and somehow remained on Fire. None of his catch up held any weight.

Minsc and Boo I'm gonna have to ISO.




VOTE: Aristophanes

[Roshar]

@Chamber, Looking back at it, I believe Action Dan had given his read on Davsto first. So, in that regard, Androgy post didn't bring anything original. Second point in her post as well was recycled. Don't know how in ISO this stood out to you, but within context it actually looks like a 'blending in' post.

And from that what conclusion would you draw about her alignment?

Don't particularly like it, but while it can go scum trying to blend in, it can also be town recycling info, i.e not original/independent thinker. There's also the fact that it was really early in the day and there was not much to talk about. So, can't reach a conclusion from that, but it's going to make me continue to analyze/re-assess that slot.

also aristophanes lynch probably isnt going to happen today.
sorry.

Bah, I know, still 7 days though. I need to ISO a couple of people and see if we can reach common ground before that.

@Fire assassin, talk to me about why you think Chamber is town. Xfyu too if you can.

I could, but I don't feel like going into detail at this time. Read their ISO, you can pick up any oddities. Xk is very calm and relaxed and is sorting players. Chamber is more independent in thought and you can see he isn't sheeping anyone.

Independent thinking is in no way only a town trait. Sheeping for scum can also be risky as sheeping in essence is always heavily analayzed.

Beeboy, why haven't you caught up yet? : (

[Roshar]

is this an in-game thing? Or a, "we're secret mafiascum loverzzzz" thing?

[Roshar]

What's the reason, do you think, that he gets picked for a D1 lynch? Posting style?

[Roshar]

@Chamber Nope. Most games I've played were not on mafiascum.

My vote on him does not mean I'm willing to lynch him. The insight on him helps though.

[Roshar]

Yes.

[Roshar]

will catch up tomorrow.

[Roshar]

Sorry, got the flu and starting a new job today, nothing has happened to really change my scumreads on FA AND Smudger slot.

Would prefer a xkfyu lynch if we're hunting off the AD wagon, can't bring myself to join a wagon driven by Fire and smudger slot

Your scum read on smudger was based on a random sentence. Chamber replaced, and you say your scum read remains. Putting aside that the entire scum read on Smudger carries zero weight, you imply your scum read has carried over to Chamber. Why?
Any reason you'd prefer an Xkfyu lynch?


Bah, Maruchan remains town. Any scum reads on him at this point opportunistic. That means Xkfyu.



630 like what. Screw it

VOTE: Minsc and Boo.

Not thrilled about IEC on it but lots of scumreads poopooing the AD wagon.

Poopooing as in they're on the wagon or criticizing it?

if you think this is teammafia ad why is this your first mention of it.

p-edit: fa confirmed alt.
teehee.

Because I never looked at Action Dan's ISO. I've just been far behind and sheeping due to work and taxes. If a case comes up or a wagon does, I check to see if it has merit or not.

What merit does the AD case have?


*********************

My vote on him does not mean I'm willing to lynch him. The insight on him helps though.

Why would you vote someone that you aren't willing to lynch?

A vote can be used to pressure and is a formal declaration of who you find scummy.

UNVOTE: Minsc and Boo

VOTE: ActionDan

Gonna apply as much pressure to this slot as possible for when Dan's replacement arrives.

Literally the following post. Guess you've heard of a pressure vote. Why the pointless questions, Xkfyu? Unless of course you were planning on lynching ActionDan.


Like, after the shit Gork pulled with the AD wagon, and the risk taken, it would be ridiculous if he turned scum. Solid town.

I like RC's entrance as well.

[Roshar]

Lol, I spend two days looking for this game to begin then it begins and you bastards go ape on my arse

Time for a counter wagon

VOTE: androgybee

This is your reason why smudger is scummy. So, excuse me if I find it hard to believe you find chamber suspicious for smudgers 2 posts.
Was giving you the benefit of the doubt in thinking you might have had something.


*inhales* Any reason OTHER than you wanting to avoid an ActionDan lynch?

[Roshar]

Then it says"
e
w

It connected with the w on top.

[Roshar]

Guys, I still like a boo lynch better than fire, but can we find a third option? I'm starting to have my doubts.

Reasons would've been nice.... I mean, why do people just refuse to provide reasons for reads?

This. Like half the players here it seems.

[Roshar]

ugh, not mafia always plays like this? I've only meta'd one game so far and there's like three syllables per post.

[Roshar]

lmao just realized Xkfyu is voting RC.

[Roshar]

k, so let's summarize a few people

Maru

- he's been placed on a few lists on the scummy end and I just want to reiterate that he's a town read for me. A lot of arguments he had on Ircher and Gork earlier were really far-fetched but I'm with him on a few points. And those are about notmafia and Ircher.

His recent vote on Minsc, apathy towards end game (yeah, I agree with RC in that respect), and vote on Xfyu only when he started getting accused of being his partner, i.e, he didn't have much interest in pushing that lynch, but once he started getting accused of being his scumbuddy he was all, "screw it, lets get this moving' reaffirms this. Like, if anyone should be analyzed for his end of day vote on Xkfyu it should be Ircher. The fact that Ircher is even going back and trying to accuse Maruchan of this is extremely suspicious. The more he pushes Maru, the worse he looks.

Notmafia

, bah. Like what even. His smudger tunnel, is that a role or past history with smudger? If not, I'm not entirely sure what he's doing. Why would scum act so...unabashedly in terms of in your face, "smudger is scum", or his fake Minsc hammer. I'm giving this slot way too much playstyle leeway. We've reached that frightening point when a player cannot be held accountable to what they've said or done b/c of their playstyle.

Ircher

. I retract my town read. Ever since the post where he stated he never read the case on Gork and voted for Fire Assassin b/c he assumed there was a case. What's the logic behind sheeping a wagon your top scum read is making without bothering to properly read it? Had you actually read it and found Fire scummy for it that would have translated to something else entirely.

The more recent stuff I find really off was articulated by Fire Assassin in 1040 1044. His unwillingness to lynch Minsc and Boo, despite showing willingness in 958. Like he jumped to Maruchan, then was really unwilling to go for Minsc, and only after much convincing from Fire Assassin did he vote Minsc, which he quickly changed to Xkfyu despite never having a scum read on Xkfyu. For someone who keeps asking for reasons for reads, I find it hard to believe you would vote someone without scum reading them. This was your read on X

X (-40%) - Tbh, I don't really understand the scumread here. A lot of this slot's stuff is null imho.

Also, why no hesitation on jumping on the Xkfyu wagon, despite your major scum read (Maruchan) being the one who brought Xkfyu to L-1?

VOTE: Ircher


The second person on the wagon who showed similar unwillingness for Minsc but easily jumped on Xkfyu was Aristophanes.

So, yeah, those two.

And yes, I understand that this is heavily based under the assumption the Minsc does flip scum, but still iffy as hell.

[Roshar]

Ircher stop trying to do whatever the hell you're doing please.
We're lynching Minsc or Xkfyu. If Aristo's scum he'll get lynched eventually the way he's playing.
I'm not wasting a d1 lynch on him.

Well, out of those two, I prefer Minsc:

VOTE: Minsc

So we see this ^

Then we see this:

Ok.
VOTE: X

Hammer -- As I stated before,

I was fine with either lynch

(though I kinda prefer X right now cuz of all the things that are happening on the Minsc wagon).

Where exactly did you ever state you were fine with an Xkfyu lynch?

[Roshar]

You've consistently stated you're fine with a Minsc lynch (you'd even prefer a Minsc lynch over an Xkfyu lynch), but when it comes time to it you never vote the guy.

[Roshar]

I no longer buy what Davsto did. Saying not all the roles are from Plot's previous roles 1) cannot be disproved and 2) isn't really AI.

And your two scum reads were on the Xkfyu wagon. Minsc had jumped on it, followed by Maru, who had brought X to L-2 (I stand corrected). Like, to say the reason you hammered was b/c it looked like Maru bussing their scum partner when you had no prior read on X....for someone who was being very careful about a Minsc mislynch as well, this does not ring true. Why ditch the lynch for someone you actually had a scum read on for someone you had nothing on?

On the contrary, did I ever state I wouldn't be ok? Nope.

I'll find the auote later.

You stated you'd prefer a Minsc lynch over Xfyu. Your read on Xkfyu was that you, "don't understand the scum read on him".

[Roshar]

Did I say you said 'you wouldn't be okay'?


Will wait for the quote.

[Roshar]

If I dont get mislynched today (or tomorrow), Id prob be next on the NK list cuz of what Davsto did.

I'd think this is an excess amount of worry over being mislynched today or tomorrow when you're a big town read among other players.

[Roshar]

This is about Minsc. If by 'either' you mean Xkfyu as well, then I'm

really really surprised

b/c you never actually mentioned Xkfyu prior to this.

Let's go back and see your responses when people voted/scum read Xkfyu:

When Not_mafia did:

VOTE: Xkfyu

I'll say it for the 26th time:

Reasons?

When RC scum read him:

I'm not townreading Titus but I just don't feel like hammering her while she's sick

and I'm 100% that Xk is scum at this point.

For the 27th time:

Reasons?

This was you being quite frustrated at people voting/scum reading X without providing reasons. To think you're willing to hammer Xkfyu without a reason of your own, when you obviously care a whole lot about reasons is...surprising.

[Roshar]

2. So, you suppose that Maru just wanted a lynch to occur and was being apathetic, etc there at the end of D1? If he didn't care about which wagon he was on and just wanted D1 to end, then why did he switch from a L-1 vote on Minsc back to a L-2 vote on X? Certainly, that should at least be a valid concern to raise, even if you still don't think that's scummy in the slightest.
3. My play was indeed scummy, but scummy != scum. With that said, how come do you give Maru a free pass and yet you heavily question me for my end-of-day actions. You're being biased here: if you are going to hold me accountable for my actions, you should do the same to Maruchan who acted pretty scummy at the end of D1 too.

The difference between you and Maru is that:

A) Maru didn't try to actively avoid lynching a candidate who he scum read. His vote on Minsc came on it's own without anyone's attempt at convincing.

B)He didn't jump on Xkfyu for no reason. He was being accused of being his scum buddy, so his thought process on voting Xkfyu after said accusations is clear and logical. You on the other hand, had no reason to jump on Xkfyu. You kept displaying uncertainty on the Minsc lynch, but showed none for X.

4. How is trying to hold Maru accountable for his actions make me look worse? Your argument here is basically one huge chainsaw.

Your vote hammered Xkfyu. It didn't precede Maruchan. You knew your scum read had his vote on X

before you hammered

. So, for you to come around D2 and start pointing fingers at Maruchan for him changing his vote to X is really suspicious. Do you see my point? This proves would have held him suspicious regardless of what he did. Had he voted Minsc, the argument would be, "he doesn't want to vote his scum buddy". Now he voted X your argument is, "he changed votes, suspicious!" No matter what he does, you'll make a case on him. And this isn't tunneling. This is an adamant attempt at keeping a case on Maru.

Read the entire section. You need to get your context straight, as your representation is a misrep, for I never expressed a very strong scumread of either. The closest to that is my readlists where I put Minsc way further down than X, but none of my scumreads were extremely strong tbh. Stating it was a strong read and then looking at my later posts makes such a notion illogical for if I really had such strong reads, I wouldn't have done as much vote hopping. In addition, I quoted a later post stating my position on the lynch canidates which literally states my scumreads were not very strong and Id be ok with either.

In terms of how, "strong" the scum read was, I never said you had a strong scum read on Minsc. However you still had

a

scum read on Minsc. Enough that you were "fine with lynching Minsc or Maru". You also clearly stated you'd prefer to lynch Minsc instead of X.


As to why I think Maruchan is town. His thoughts are open for the thread. I think many of his reasons are over-the-top and don't agree with them, but I can see he genuinely believes them. I've played with beeboy in my only other game on Mafia scum, and he acted very similarly to this. His emotions are also wide open to the thread. His exasperation, anger at his cases not being looked at, etc. With posts like 566. Like the amount of effort that went into that. With things like, "and now since I said all of that, ircher will use it if still alive tomorrow". He actually believes that. I buy it, at least.

So, agreeing with Fire, I'm willing to lynch Minsc or Ircher.

[Roshar]

So, basically, despite explaining myself, you are stating that regardless of what I say, I'm scum?

Not regardless of what you say. I just happen not to agree with that you said.

[Roshar]

Your wiki page...deserves a meta. Gonna be painful, but promise to read it in the coming days.

[Roshar]

I'll decide then I guess.

[Roshar]

Yes, I can see that.

Did your scum read on Minsc diminish?

[Roshar]

So, I was gonna do some scumhunting on the Minsc wagon yesterday,so I should have that up by tomorrow. I'll likely include an XK wagon jump analysis as well.

Promises, promises.

[Roshar]

Yes, I can see that.

Did your scum read on Minsc diminish?

Yes.

Not b/c Maru voted him in D1, was it?

[Roshar]

Maru, regardless of what you think, don't throw insults.

[Roshar]

I'm down.

[Roshar]

VOTE: Titus

[Roshar]

i feel bad for not being on the same level of confidence that other people are for titus being town.
:/

i'll get there if andro probably flips scum.
but in the meantime gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

This is literally why I hate this game.
I am going to get lynched for terrible reasons then I will still be ignored and Titus is going to win.

Fake

I agree.

[Roshar]

On my phone now. Will post soon but finding this all very entertaining.

[Roshar]

Rangers top scum reads where Titus and Ice.
My understanding of the gamestate based on what Nahdia told me is she wasn't globally town read (

nahdia scum read her during the night phase

when I asked for a break down of what was happening)

That made me come to the conclusion she was right about something and the kill was out of fear.
If she was right about something doesn't it make perfect sense for me to look at her top 2 scum reads?

I feel as though you are just making me type this because you want me to flip scum and get associations.

OK. At first beeboy said he wanted to check Titus (M&B), but I said no because I didn't think she's claim VT as a mafia power role. beeboy said she would but I ended up saying we should go elsewhere anyway, I asked if he'd read the game and said I didn't really wanna check them. I suggested Iecerint,

beeboy suggested Ranger

"out of fear". i let them pick because i really didn't feel strongly either way and he said go with ranger and I did.

Beeboy and Nahdia, I had this enormous post typed about from page 50. But first I want you to explain this discrepancy.

Beeboy says you scum read Ranger, Nahdia.

Nahdia, you said beeboy suggested Ranger.

So which is it?

[Roshar]

Tbh, as I was re-reading, I really didn't find beeboy suspicious. And I was really surprised at that b/c my first quick read when things were happening I thought I'd definitely find it scummy upon a re-read. I've played with beeboy before to know that this is a predictable reaction to him being scum read. He tunneled me most of Wiki 2 mafia. It was eerily similar to his behavior.

But then this is making me want to retract that:

1)

The fact that you tracked Ranger. Too convenient.

2)

That Nahdia let beeboy choose to go for Ranger when beeboy hadn't read the discussion.

This kinda makes it look like you were saying, "hey don't look at me, beeboy picked Ranger" and you'd effectively covered beeboy's tracks by saying he didn't read the discussion.

3)

That it turns out it wasn't actually beeboy who first brought up Ranger. It was you. At first the reason you gave us was, "beeboy did it out of fear" but now we know it was you who suggested it.

So I know you said don't ask me why, but I must. Why did you choose Ranger?

[Roshar]

VOTE: Unvote

[Roshar]

First half my thoughts while re-reading.

The recent discussion has really made me reconsider everything. This is what happens when you formulate multiple scum reads based on associations.


I'm gonna start with the recent discussion and move from there. This is gonna be pretty biased b/c I've already read further discussion and kinda formulated my opinions on some players there.

Iecerint's 1182 Detached commentatorship. Pointing out the obvious. Not taking a stance. Can see this coming from scum.

Titus's bitterness at town in 1200 made me re-evaluate my stance. Despite the fact that I really really like my comfort image of a Titus/Aristo/Ircher trio, this is starting to disappear. I've rarely been scum (not in years anyhow) and I may not remember, but I'd assume more paranoia,' shit, they're right' vibe, so I kinda relate to this bitterness to town when I'm wrongfully accused and wagoned.

1193 I agree here. I need more from Maruchan.

When I look back at it (and that I'm less focused on being right about my suspicion) Ircher's reaction to my scum read on him were good. He didn't flip a scum read on me, he looked back at his actions and he kept asking me to reevaluate Maru. And Ircher, I think you may be right about me not assessing Maru properly. It stuck with me that they were an easy lynch that scum may try to hop on and I'd been unwilling to assess that slot since.

Aristo's strong stance on Minsc being town would be really stupid to do if they're scum buddies. 1208

Iecerint, why didn't you address me instead in terms of, "please consider that they both may be town, and then Ircher's actions wouldn't be weird at all"? I pushed this before Maru did. Like really heavily. It feels like you were trying to find the easier person to talk to. You still maintain a no stance here. 1209.

1255 Titus' bitterness towards town again eroding my scum read. Bah.

1275. This is where Aristophanes gets a town read from me. Best case yet.


VOTE: Iecerint

[Roshar]

I re-read up until 63. The other half was my analysis was on Andro and how I don't really see what RC, titus and Gork were seeing as suspicious. Up until they claimed tracker and had tracked Ranger and their reasons (or lack of) as to why, I was completely against an Andro lynch.

I do want to say though, I totally buy that Andro is tracker from the hydra's confusion over what their role truly is. But yeah, that could flip either alignment.

[Roshar]

Iecerint, why didn't you address me instead in terms of, "please consider that they both may be town, and then Ircher's actions wouldn't be weird at all"? I pushed this before Maru did. Like really heavily. It feels like you were trying to find the easier person to talk to. You still maintain a no stance here.

1. I have no recollection or didn't notice. If "heavily" means you made a post with lots of quote boxes and lines, I probably don't recall because I didn't read it.

2. The reason I piped up with Maru in particular is that I think Maru is town. I'm not sure that you're town, so I probably wouldn't bother in your case,

especially if I suspect your follow-up post will be obnoxious to read.

If I think someone is town and can understand the game better by being taken through some steps, I do it with them.

Wouldn't you want to engage the person who don't think is town though?

Your point is you want to engage the person you can get through, but its coming off as you wanting to avoid conflict.

You were willing to read Maru's posts on Ircher (knowing that Maru makes walls for posts) but you ignored mine which came before Maru's. And it wasn't one, it was at least three posts, so finding it kinda hard to believe.

[Roshar]

Titus i right to call Ircher's vote on me terrible when they had just caught up on me and called my latest posts "Very Town Indicative". also they just said they buy the AtE. their reasons for voting me in 1728 aren't scumreads at all, they're... i don't fucking know. would scum honestly do this? it's insane.[/spoiler]

This pretty much summarized my thought on the Ircher vote on Androgy. And a lot of the things Ircher has been doing starting from early D1. I really really need to meta him. Are you still town reading Ircher?

At this point I can vote for you without putting you at L-1, so I did so. That's the only reason I didn't last time. I said as much in my post.

I don't want to lynch Titus.

Are you willing to lynch Andro?

Wouldn't you want to engage the person who don't think is town though?

Your point is you want to engage the person you can get through, but its coming off as you wanting to avoid conflict.

You were willing to read Maru's posts on Ircher (knowing that Maru makes walls for posts) but you ignored mine which came before Maru's. And it wasn't one, it was at least three posts, so finding it kinda hard to believe.

I get interested in the game by finding common ground with people with whom I have mutual town reads.

I know Maru from GD, and he posts in this game exactly the same way that he posts in GD. They can be long, but they're not hard to read. Short sentences, simple words, lots of exclamatory phrases.

Your posts are like reading Tierce posts or something. I'll do it when I have to if we both live that long.

You'll only start sorting me near the end of the game?

Alright. Ive reconsidered.

In fairness, we DONT want to risk lynching a town pr tonight. Furthermore, since I can buy the argument about the inconsistent reads, and since AtE is used frequently by both alignments, it's really null, regardless the amount. Therefore, I no longer have a case for an Andro lynch, and so cannot support it.

On the other hand, the more I think about it, the more suspicious Ice is, and since there IS a decent case there, I CAN support such a lynch.

So, as ot stands, I'd lynch Ice right now. I have no clue as to buddies though.

(My vote, if I placed it, would be l-1 I believe, so I wont vote yet)

This reads as so overly contrived!

I should probably give this slot a good reading. The recent posts just don't sit right.

Gah. I can't decide if this reads as town conforming or contrived when he essentially reversed his stance when andro and gork engaged with him.

[Roshar]

In terms of Andro.

I've played with town beeboy before and I've fully experienced the brunt of his playstyle as he tunneled me endlessly. He was super inconsistent with all other reads other than myself. Our main scum reads he avoided voicing an opinion on and when prodded, he town read them. Only when he was about to get lynched (like literally at L-1) did he suddenly scum read one of them. He was lynched D2 for many other inconsistencies.

My read on the Andro interaction isn't coming out of nowhere. Other than tracking the dead guy for little reason part.

@Gork, you've said before that you can read beeboy confidently. What's the difference between scum beeboy and town beeboy?

[Roshar]

@Gork, you've said before that you can read beeboy confidently. What's the difference between scum beeboy and town beeboy?

its mainly a tone thing.
scumbeeboy just doesnt feel like a real person trying to figure things out in a game.
my confidence in that got a little shaken with all of the noise in this game.

Does this begin prior to him being scum read/pressured?

[Roshar]

Isn't that a watcher role?

[Roshar]

Ircher role blocked us ffs

-Bee ftr

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. beeboy gave inconsistent reads for the sake of wifom, because people's first instinct would obviously be to townread that..... riiiiiiiiiight...

Off the top of my head? My pool would be Maru, Aristo, and Roshar. I have a lot of thoughts on who to track but going too deep into them is just telling scum to what extent they need to counter me tonight.

~Nahdia

Quoting this for reference.

For disclosure; we tried to track Titus. My idea was to make it look like I wasn't considering tracking her so if she is a scum PR or even a goon, she would possibly feel safe making an action without fear of getting tracked.

Ircher using his roleblock on us makes me think Roshar or Aristo might be scum, but the Maru slot dying anyway makes that revelation... not especially surprising.

Who was Maru scumreading?

~Nahdia

Explain this logic please.

[Roshar]

Ircher role blocked us ffs

-Bee ftr

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. beeboy gave inconsistent reads for the sake of wifom, because people's first instinct would obviously be to townread that..... riiiiiiiiiight...

Off the top of my head? My pool would be Maru, Aristo, and Roshar. I have a lot of thoughts on who to track but going too deep into them is just telling scum to what extent they need to counter me tonight.

~Nahdia

Quoting this for reference.

For disclosure; we tried to track Titus. My idea was to make it look like I wasn't considering tracking her so if she is a scum PR or even a goon, she would possibly feel safe making an action without fear of getting tracked.

Ircher using his roleblock on us makes me think Roshar or Aristo might be scum, but the Maru slot dying anyway makes that revelation... not especially surprising.

Who was Maru scumreading?

~Nahdia

Explain this logic please.

I was under the assumption Ircher was a scum roleblocker.

And I explicitly said I would be tracking in Roshar/Aristo/Maruchan.

Ircher presumably wouldn't bother blocking me if none of those people are scum.

But if Ircher is town then that's useless.

~Nahdia

I think...you kinda proved you're town. If Ircher is town, I don't think scum would reach this conclusion.

[Roshar]

oh come on, explain why exactly this logic worthy of a :/ for you. No shade throwing, please, Gork.

[Roshar]

Do you think scum would consider that Ircher is scum and build an entire conclusion based on it?

[Roshar]

Scum Nahdia had adequate rationale into thinking they may have been blocked by a town player as well, taking into account that they were a strong scum read D2.

[Roshar]

I'm fine with folding, if that's the consensus.

@Androgy, you assumed Ircher was town all game, why did you immediately assume he's scum?

[Roshar]

@Titus, why not vote andro if you think I'm defending a scum slot?

[Roshar]

Then why are you?

[Roshar]

Demotivated equals scum?

Wanting to end this game = scum?

Lack of a memorable stance means you were simply not that motivated to play.

[Roshar]

Encouraging resignation is scummy? When scum are so close to winning this?

That last line wasn't referring to you, that was referring to myself.

[Roshar]

At this point I'm not even pointing the finger at you yet. Interesting you're on the defensive.

[Roshar]

So you're saying I'm scum who's town-reading a town player.

Why would I town read andro, when he's clearly the strongest lynch candidate for tonight.

[Roshar]

Because I assumed you thought Andro was scum from your analysis. And that I was town-reading him because you thought he was my scum buddy.

[Roshar]

White knighting. Now? When all scum has to do is get one mislynch?

[Roshar]

He has.

[Roshar]

Gork, confirm the compulsive part and my vote is on Fire.

[Roshar]

also has plot rolled executioner?

Yes.

[Roshar]

Did Pip or Ircher have half votes?

Has Plot ever rolled rolecop?

Yes. In mini theme 1704.

[Roshar]

But it was a mafia role. The other role cop was an alien.

[Roshar]

The executioner was also a town role.

[Roshar]

It's kinda starting to seem like all the accusations you threw at Gork were for this moment. So your reasons for investigating Gork added up.

[Roshar]

Yes. And I've always wondered why.

[Roshar]

Sure.

[Roshar]

Why didn't you investigate Andro, by the way?

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, don't you need 4 more votes to be lynched?

[Roshar]

Wait, role cop doesn't give alignment. My bad.

[Roshar]

I answered that.

Yes.

But the role was town.

[Roshar]

V/la until mid-monday.

[Roshar]

VT

Roshan better not stick.

[Roshar]

No worries.

Aristo, walk me through your PoE.

[Roshar]

What's popcorn?

[Roshar]

Ah, then Titus

[Roshar]

Actually, they claimed VT. So I think we're left with not_mafia.

[Roshar]

Yo, so the lynch gonna be me or what? There's a clear split on going for Not_mafia, but it's obvious every player here is willing to lynch me. That should tell you something.

Too bad nobody bothered ISOing me.

[Roshar]

You were always so nice, NM.

[Roshar]

No, but you know what's more dangerous? Everyone expressing unanimous interest in lynching me. Let's not play dumb.

[Roshar]

that he dont give a fuck bout lookin' town.
every game he says things that people latch onto really easily.
could he be scum doing it?
sure.

i still dont feel good even lynching him if hes scum if its done for shitty reasons anymore.

Do you feel Aristo is saying things people easily latch onto this game? Or do you feel he's more careful?

[Roshar]

I haven't been able to place NM this entire game. All the players alive this game I've had moments where I felt they were town at one moment or another. Not NM.

[Roshar]

Sorry Ether.

Yeah, I'm down with lynching NM. Down with doing anything at this point, let's just decide.

[Roshar]

VOTE: Not_mafia

[Roshar]

Because he was right about the 1-shot executioner?

[Roshar]

lmao what the hell is going on, scum is painting me as a target?

Er, Andro, explain again why your results confirm I am scum.

[Roshar]

why did scum not kill one of you.
q.q

I think that is a good point.

[Roshar]

I'm new to some of these game mechanics, so how exactly do their results/roles prove their not scum?

Right, explain to me what exactly you think happened with your results and roles.

[Roshar]

Can we please not assume I'd be stupid enough to frame myself like that?

[Roshar]

In terms of who I would lynch, it'd be Aristo. A few things have made me question Gork (that he concluded bus driver instead of redirect before RC came in, him pointing to the fact that scum are really stupid for not lynching scum), but I wouldn't be comfortable lynching him as his argument when backed feel genuine. Call me naive.
If I was forced to come up with a second scum buddy, I'd do that after an Aristo flip and get an association there.



I feel like I really can't chip in rn due to the fact that I'm really weak with game mechanics and I'm not on the same page as the discussion. But here's my opinions from that I understood.

I don't understand how the results tonight implicate me. Unless you're assuming that scum are idiots and would redirect kills away from one of their scum mates as if that wouldn't turn the spotlight on them. Unless I'm missing something, isn't this the conclusion you all are reaching?


If I'm scum due to common sense, then I apologize for not appearing more town and not being more invested in the game. But I haven't really had a case to defend against myself, just fingers pointing at my slot over and over again. So I don't feel that remorseful at town losing this game with my lynch. I'm just apathetic at this point.

[Roshar]

Right, if you're so sure, then lynch me and end the game.

[Roshar]

Sick of all the finger pointing and no reasons.

Was I unmotivated? Yes.
I had no strong stances. Yes

I'm just an ambiguous slot that everyone keeps pointing at so I must be scum.

[Roshar]

oh wow, you finally found something I posted that was scummy. Too bad it was after you voted me.

[Roshar]

You scum read me all through D3, so meh.

[Roshar]

If Gork is scum, you deserve the win.

Aristo's definitely in the mix, just not sure with who.

[Roshar]

Eh,

just so it won't be said that I didn't try.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Roshar]

i really wont be tossing blame your way if you flip town.
lol.

Promise?

I'm tempted to place to the blame on town though (yes, I town read you). I probably could have taken more initiative this game though.

[Roshar]

I'm just as confused RC. Aristo is my best guess, who they're with I'd ponder upon an Aristo scum flip.

[Roshar]

im pretty sure the only thing i will feel if you flip town is relief that the game is over.

Me too.

[Roshar]

Aristo's gonna hammer. Cause he's scum. : )

GG

[Roshar]

The fact that andro hasn't hammered yet means Andro is confirmed town in my eyes.

[Roshar]

If RC or Gork is town, can you vote me after Aristophanes response? I know you want to end the game, but if scum is Ari/Titus, then you're handing them the game.

[Roshar]

And you guys almost lynched me~ ^_^

-Nahdia

I wasn't willing to lynch you because I've played with beeboy and did not find his reactions this game much diff than his play with me in Wiki where he was town.

That and the fact that you built a whole analysis on the fact that Ircher is scum. (everyone found that suspicious for some reason)

[Roshar]

Titus, if you're leaning Aristophanes more, you can always vote him.

[Roshar]

that he dont give a fuck bout lookin' town.
every game he says things that people latch onto really easily.
could he be scum doing it?
sure.

i still dont feel good even lynching him if hes scum if its done for shitty reasons anymore.

Do you feel Aristo is saying things people easily latch onto this game? Or do you feel he's more careful?

Gork, I don't think you replied to this.

[Roshar]

Assuming I'm scum, then yes, this may seem like an attempt to derail my wagon. But you're not giving any consideration to if I was town. If I am town, (and I am), I'm telling you Aristo will hammer. In which case you won't have the opportunity to do anything about it. Everyone is quite content with lynching me, so I don't see what this fear of the wagon turning into something dumb comes from.

[Roshar]

Me too but he isn't posting

You were never impatient this entire game. Why now? When this is such a critical lynch?

[Roshar]

Scum is definitely on my wagon. Andro is confirmed town, if Ari is scum, that leaves one more.

RC, Titus, Gork.

Which one of you is scum. I'd be shocked if it's Gork. I'm not going to go through the headache and paranoia of considering this possibility.

Leaving Titus and RC. Scum is definitely here.

Aristo is scum with Titus/RC. I'm leaning Titus as RC has actually attempted engaging with me.

[Roshar]

Instead of just voting me because of getting impatient all of a sudden.

[Roshar]

And instead of showing interest in hearing from Aristo and my slot, then conveniently voting me after waiting an excruciatingly long 24 hrs.

[Roshar]

GG scum.