In post 1130, Roshar wrote:k, so let's summarize a few people
Maru- he's been placed on a few lists on the scummy end and I just want to reiterate that he's a town read for me. A lot of arguments he had on Ircher and Gork earlier were really far-fetched but I'm with him on a few points. And those are about notmafia and Ircher.
His recent vote on Minsc, apathy towards end game (yeah, I agree with RC in that respect), and vote on Xfyu only when he started getting accused of being his partner, i.e, he didn't have much interest in pushing that lynch, but once he started getting accused of being his scumbuddy he was all, "screw it, lets get this moving' reaffirms this. Like, if anyone should be analyzed for his end of day vote on Xkfyu it should be Ircher. The fact that Ircher is even going back and trying to accuse Maruchan of this is extremely suspicious. The more he pushes Maru, the worse he looks.
Notmafia, bah. Like what even. His smudger tunnel, is that a role or past history with smudger? If not, I'm not entirely sure what he's doing. Why would scum act so...unabashedly in terms of in your face, "smudger is scum", or his fake Minsc hammer. I'm giving this slot way too much playstyle leeway. We've reached that frightening point when a player cannot be held accountable to what they've said or done b/c of their playstyle.
. I retract my town read. Ever since the post where he stated he never read the case on Gork and voted for Fire Assassin b/c he assumed there was a case. What's the logic behind sheeping a wagon your top scum read is making without bothering to properly read it? Had you actually read it and found Fire scummy for it that would have translated to something else entirely.
Ircher
The more recent stuff I find really off was articulated by Fire Assassin in 1040 1044. His unwillingness to lynch Minsc and Boo, despite showing willingness in 958. Like he jumped to Maruchan, then was really unwilling to go for Minsc, and only after much convincing from Fire Assassin did he vote Minsc, which he quickly changed to Xkfyu despite never having a scum read on Xkfyu. For someone who keeps asking for reasons for reads, I find it hard to believe you would vote someone without scum reading them. This was your read on X
X (-40%) - Tbh, I don't really understand the scumread here. A lot of this slot's stuff is null imho.
Also, why no hesitation on jumping on the Xkfyu wagon, despite your major scum read (Maruchan) being the one who brought Xkfyu to L-1?
VOTE: Ircher
The second person on the wagon who showed similar unwillingness for Minsc but easily jumped on Xkfyu was Aristophanes.
So, yeah, those two.
And yes, I understand that this is heavily based under the assumption the Minsc does flip scum, but still iffy as hell.
In post 1143, Maruchan wrote:So let me get this straight.
First, you BLATANTLY tell me part of your read on me is an OMGUS.
Then, I vote Minsc because i want the stupidest day in the history of mafia to end, and so i don't replace out due to apathy (I thought this game was going to be much more fun based on the variety of plot roles, but it looks like it's a standard balanced setup that has an overabundance of VT's).
You take this as me, claiming scum, due to an unwillingness to vote my partner xk. EVEN THOUGH you've MULTIPLE TIMES stated you think minsc is scum and is a preferable lynch of the two between him and xk. So you are basically saying you believe the game to be a 3/9 scumteam, and you're team-hunting ON DAY ONE (scumteam hunting over scumhunting is still the worst thing in the history of scumhunting, on day one is worse, and the way you do it is abysmal).
I say IDGAF nobody is making a case on either of the main wagons, and my prefered lynch (ircher) is not getting lynched. I get called scum for not voting xk. I switch votes to xk
You propose this means I'm busing my partner, EVEN THOUGH YOU ALREADY ESSENTIALLY THOUGHT MINSC WAS SCUM, so you think I DOUBLE-bussed BOTH my partners. And hammer xk
xk flips town
You're huge reason maruchan is scum, because he is xk's buddy who bussed him and didn't vote him and whateverthefuck IS SHOT TO PIECES DUE TO HIS VT ROLE
so you propose minsc and maruchan are still scum.
how does nobody else see how horrible ircher's play is this game?
In post 1152, Fire Assassin wrote:I want to lynch both Ircher and Minsc right now. The fact that Ircher jumped on the counterwagon for Minsc makes me worried about Ircher/Minsc being a team, but I feel I am focusing too much on preflip associations between these two.
2. So, you suppose that Maru just wanted a lynch to occur and was being apathetic, etc there at the end of D1? If he didn't care about which wagon he was on and just wanted D1 to end, then why did he switch from a L-1 vote on Minsc back to a L-2 vote on X? Certainly, that should at least be a valid concern to raise, even if you still don't think that's scummy in the slightest.
3. My play was indeed scummy, but scummy != scum. With that said, how come do you give Maru a free pass and yet you heavily question me for my end-of-day actions. You're being biased here: if you are going to hold me accountable for my actions, you should do the same to Maruchan who acted pretty scummy at the end of D1 too.
4. How is trying to hold Maru accountable for his actions make me look worse? Your argument here is basically one huge chainsaw.
Read the entire section. You need to get your context straight, as your representation is a misrep, for I never expressed a very strong scumread of either. The closest to that is my readlists where I put Minsc way further down than X, but none of my scumreads were extremely strong tbh. Stating it was a strong read and then looking at my later posts makes such a notion illogical for if I really had such strong reads, I wouldn't have done as much vote hopping. In addition, I quoted a later post stating my position on the lynch canidates which literally states my scumreads were not very strong and Id be ok with either.
In post 1158, Ircher wrote:So, basically, despite explaining myself, you are stating that regardless of what I say, I'm scum?
In post 1157, Roshar wrote:2. So, you suppose that Maru just wanted a lynch to occur and was being apathetic, etc there at the end of D1? If he didn't care about which wagon he was on and just wanted D1 to end, then why did he switch from a L-1 vote on Minsc back to a L-2 vote on X? Certainly, that should at least be a valid concern to raise, even if you still don't think that's scummy in the slightest.
3. My play was indeed scummy, but scummy != scum. With that said, how come do you give Maru a free pass and yet you heavily question me for my end-of-day actions. You're being biased here: if you are going to hold me accountable for my actions, you should do the same to Maruchan who acted pretty scummy at the end of D1 too.
The difference between you and Maru is that:
A) Maru didn't try to actively avoid lynching a candidate who he scum read. His vote on Minsc came on it's own without anyone's attempt at convincing.
B)He didn't jump on Xkfyu for no reason. He was being accused of being his scum buddy, so his thought process on voting Xkfyu after said accusations is clear and logical. You on the other hand, had no reason to jump on Xkfyu. You kept displaying uncertainty on the Minsc lynch, but showed none for X.
4. How is trying to hold Maru accountable for his actions make me look worse? Your argument here is basically one huge chainsaw.
Your vote hammered Xkfyu. It didn't precede Maruchan. You knew your scum read had his vote on Xbefore you hammered. So, for you to come around D2 and start pointing fingers at Maruchan for him changing his vote to X is really suspicious. Do you see my point? This proves would have held him suspicious regardless of what he did. Had he voted Minsc, the argument would be, "he doesn't want to vote his scum buddy". Now he voted X your argument is, "he changed votes, suspicious!" No matter what he does, you'll make a case on him. And this isn't tunneling. This is an adamant attempt at keeping a case on Maru.
Read the entire section. You need to get your context straight, as your representation is a misrep, for I never expressed a very strong scumread of either. The closest to that is my readlists where I put Minsc way further down than X, but none of my scumreads were extremely strong tbh. Stating it was a strong read and then looking at my later posts makes such a notion illogical for if I really had such strong reads, I wouldn't have done as much vote hopping. In addition, I quoted a later post stating my position on the lynch canidates which literally states my scumreads were not very strong and Id be ok with either.
In terms of how, "strong" the scum read was, I never said you had a strong scum read on Minsc. However you still hadscum read on Minsc. Enough that you were "fine with lynching Minsc or Maru". You also clearly stated you'd prefer to lynch Minsc instead of X.a
As to why I think Maruchan is town. His thoughts are open for the thread. I think many of his reasons are over-the-top and don't agree with them, but I can see he genuinely believes them. I've played with beeboy in my only other game on Mafia scum, and he acted very similarly to this. His emotions are also wide open to the thread. His exasperation, anger at his cases not being looked at, etc. With posts like 566. Like the amount of effort that went into that. With things like, "and now since I said all of that, ircher will use it if still alive tomorrow". He actually believes that. I buy it, at least.
So, agreeing with Fire, I'm willing to lynch Minsc or Ircher.
In post 1171, Aristophanes wrote:So, I was gonna do some scumhunting on the Minsc wagon yesterday,so I should have that up by tomorrow. I'll likely include an XK wagon jump analysis as well.