In post 682, Polar Vortex wrote:You say it is unsurprising that she called her accusers town, but you're arguing that she's scum because she's not doing what you'd expect a town player to do in her position. It sounds like scum-her would have been better doing the expected from town and pushing one of her towny suspects, making her look town and still helping her push a mislynch. So her reads are not as expected or unsurprising as you made it sound.
Also, why is it so hard to believe that she does find them to be town? I find it harder to believe that a scum player would give up on such easy pushes.
So the first paragraph says that you think because she isn’t doing what I expect Town to be doing I should read her as Town? I really can’t parse that personally. Of course Scum is always better off doing what Town would. But I don’t see Town in Ranger’s player.
But let’s get into the heart of your “One of her Townies would be an easy mislynch” portion. Why are all of DK / Banterlords / Dom easy mislynches? DK is clearly off the table by the time Ranger replaced so that is out. Banterlords had gotten exactly zero heat all game so I don’t see why you call them an easy push either. Dom is the only player that might be an easy lynch among the three. That pre-supposes that Dom (or frankly Banterlords but I doubt DK and Ranger can both be scum together) isn’t a Ranger partner. Which is a unstated factor in my read. And I’m not sure why this analysis on your side pre-supposes that Ranger-scum can’t have a partner in the Banterlords / Dom group.
In post 682, Polar Vortex wrote:A cop claim at L-1/2 from a suspected player is always something to be weary of. I think I've already said how damaging it could be to us if he's scum, but I'll say it again. If he was getting lynched on D1, the cop claim buys him another night (where he can kill and or use his role) and another day, where he can claim a result, which can lead to a mislynch. A mislynch on day 2 would buy him yet another night and day. A cop claim is a free ticket. He loses nothing because he was already getting lynched and he can win two nights and two days, plus all the chaos and distraction he can cause.
And a Cop claim with no other claims on the board as scum risks counter-claim and instant hemp at the cost of outing the Town Cop. Why do you assume DK’s claim had no risks when that is the big one facing a fake-claim of Cop? Yes, it is there are risks to Town but you are painting a worst-case scenario and coloring it as the only one and I’m unsure of why.
In post 682, Polar Vortex wrote:As much as I'd like to, I'm not arguing for a DK lynch, I'm giving them a chance and hoping they're town, even though I'm aware their claim can be really hurtful to us if they're scum. So, if I'm willing to take this risk with DK, as are you, why aren't you willing to take the risk with Ranger? Because her reads "don’t logically come from a Town standpoint"? Because her role is weaker? Opinions. Opinions I disagree with. "Opinions" that to me can't logically come from a Town standpoint.
You're downplaying the value of her role and stubbornly scum reading her for things that are just wrong, no matter how well you try to justify them.
I was willing to take the risk for awhile. That has to be clear given I was voting Blackstar (another scum read that you disagree with). I see her as scum. I’ve made it clear why. You disagree. That’s fine. You voted me for it. And if I am incorrect on Ranger (and Blackstar) after the fact I’ll admit to being so. But don’t expect me not to present and push my reads just because you disagree with them.
In post 688, Polar Vortex wrote:Your suspicion on Blackstar. Similar thing. Simple posts are apparently misinterpreted and wrongly judged. And then you refuse to give in and admit or even consider that maybe you're wrong about your reads when confronted, or simply that things are not the way you perceive them. You work your way into a tunnel and refuse to get out of it, even when the exit is right in front of you.
So tell me Snow why are you so certain that I’m wrong? I’ve seen “Oh, go look at this Newbie game” as reasoning frankly I could care less about if meta is the defense. So elucidate for me exactly why my read on Blackstar has to be wrong.
In post 693, Ranger wrote:Of course I'm not making a read. That's because the read already exists. I'm not beginning to have a read; the read was formed from the moment I read your posts.
Sure, but I know it’s a bad read and your lazy approach reads as scummy to me. Of course you will not agree because no-one ever agrees they are scum in a game. That’s Mafia 101.
In post 693, Ranger wrote:Or, you know, you are claiming something that is provably false, and I'm showing the evidence for why it's false. It's like you're claiming the Earth is flat, and me linking to a Wikipedia article on a globe.
It’s not provably false because it is an OPINION. The Wiki is a summary of the collective opinion of all the editors and contributors of the Mafiascum wiki. Obviously there is room for differing opinions between those players. As evidenced by the Bearbert Polar head stating he would have been happy with a Jean Town Watcher flip Night 1 – based on roles. Or Ircher’s opinion that Watcher is a common Mafia role. I disagree with you on the strength of the Watcher role vis a vie Cop. Pointing and ranting the the Wiki says so it must be is political style or arguing.
In post 693, Ranger wrote:And if you want me ranting about the composition of wagons.
{TheDominator, MagnaofIllusion, Dragon Knight, BlackStar} is a good thing to rant about. Not a single vote in the lot which is actually good. Sure, not all scum. Probably mostly town. But definitely not all town.
In post 695, Ranger wrote:Incidentally, MagnaofIllusion should have been saying this.
He didn't.
Why should I be saying the wagon is bad when the only vote that I would see coming from a scum-read was Blackstar’s which I had not read as of
658. Dom is a compromise lynch for me because he’s exceedingly low content and I see a potential scum-slip which I already mentioned. DK I read as Town to this point for his dogged determination re: you. Scum Cop has little reason to proactively push that lynch when it has been proven to draw fire.
Yet according to you I should have unvoted before the only vote I would find suspect actually appears to me in thread. Man – it would be great to be pre-cognitive.
In post 699, Ircher wrote:Magna (-90%) - Like Dragon, insists on lynching Ranger.
Unlike Dragon, unwilling to compromise for nothing, not committed to aforementioned read (didnt vote for at least 10 pages despite constantly bring it up),
and busy searching for stupid reasons to scumread Ranger for. And said reasons are worse than Dragon's as they have ZERO evidence backing them.
The bolded is suspect and contradictory. I’m scum for not having my vote on Ranger for 10 pages while it was on my Scum-read Blackstar. Meanwhile I’m unwilling to compromise for anything on Ranger despite the fact that I only move my vote the previous page. So which is it? Am I scum for having multiple scum reads and moving between them? Or am I scum for being unwilling to compromise on Ranger despite me not posting in any significance since my vote for Ranger and just having made the vote?
I’m pretty confident to say the amount of cross-buddying between Ircher and Ranger means they aren’t scum together.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
