In post 672, Code of Honor wrote:Hey Ircher, what are your thoughts on the Ranger wagon? You said you wanted to lynch Dragon or Ranger, but now that Ranger picks up you forgot that sentiment entirely.
In post 676, Ircher wrote:In post 672, Code of Honor wrote:Hey Ircher, what are your thoughts on the Ranger wagon? You said you wanted to lynch Dragon or Ranger, but now that Ranger picks up you forgot that sentiment entirely.
I was semi-joking when I said that, albeit the fact I dont believe both are town due to the claims.
In post 677, Code of Honor wrote:In post 676, Ircher wrote:In post 672, Code of Honor wrote:Hey Ircher, what are your thoughts on the Ranger wagon? You said you wanted to lynch Dragon or Ranger, but now that Ranger picks up you forgot that sentiment entirely.
I was semi-joking when I said that, albeit the fact I dont believe both are town due to the claims.
Does your ass hurt from sitting on that fence and avoiding things?
In post 588, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 547, Polar Vortex wrote:Why is it unsurprising?
As I explained to Code above – my gut reaction to the terrible “case” (if you want to call it that) Ranger threw at me was “scum”. I disagree with your premise that this stance isn’t Scum looking to diffuse the wagon on them. A Town player in Ranger’s shoes should have some suspicion of the players whose case on Ranger’s slot is “Meta from prior player and lurking”. There was enough noise made in that direction that several other players stepped in to say “No, not lynching that”. But Ranger blithely just chalks that whole crew up to “Unimpeachable Town” which to me makes no sense from a Town standpoint. Especially on the basis she has provided as support.
In post 588, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 547, Polar Vortex wrote:Yeah, I really don't get the "Scum looking to survive" vibe from her. I mean, it's not like she claimed cop at L-1
See this comment confuses me. Do you think it was scummy for a player to claim Cop at L-1? Independent of what I think of Dragon’s play that lead to the wagon I don’t see anything inherently more scummy about claiming at L-1 as opposed to Jean claiming Watcher effectively “just because”. Of the two Jean’s claim looks objectively worse when viewed form a distance.
In post 588, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 548, Polar Vortex wrote:MoI, talk to me. I thought you'd see this, but apparently you don't. How is ranger's lynch acceptable but DK's isn't, taking not just their claims, but their play in consideration?
-Snow (previous one was mine too)
Ok I thought I had been talking to you this entire time.
I think I’ve explained this in my response to Ranger but I’ll reiterate – both players I’ve read as scummy. Dragon for his early player which earned my vote and Ranger for the replace in reads which to me don’t logically come from a Town standpoint. As I said earlier – I’m not lynching an UnCCed Cop Day 1 no matter how bad their player is. Dragon’s claim will be tested via Night and re-assessed. On the other hand I don’t believe a Watcher is nearly at the level of Cop as far as leash Day 1 goes.
Is Ranger my preferred lynch? No, not at this stage. But it is a lynch I would consider dependent on how my read on the slot develops.
In post 685, Ircher wrote:You dont lynch someone just cuz they have a string scum game. Ranger has an equally strong town game, so your point is?
Jeanne was scummy for lurking, generally, I'd like to PL any lurking slots. But, the slot claimed watcher -- not lynching a potentially useful role that is also a very powerful player D1.
In post 658, MagnaofIllusion wrote:In post 656, Polar Vortex wrote:Two wagons I have absolutely no interest in. Can we go back to compromising on Dom? Yeah, Blackstar, it's not really what he's done but what he hasn't done. Still, his posts don't seem genuine to me at all and like I said, that sarcasm thing was really jarring
Bearbert
Ok then help me out here - have you read the back and forth Ranger and I have had? If so please let me know what you see in our interaction that screams Town to you. Or what point I am making you think don't hold up. Or if you haven't please do so.
In post 663, Polar Vortex wrote:Didn't follow it closely since I'm not interested in lynching either of you today. But a lot of what you dislike about her seems like personality. I'm also annoyed by the constant references to the wiki, but I see it as townish. Like that seems to me like a town mindset, going back to some established rules to put some order into chaos. I don't agree with her but I can see where she's coming from.
I also felt you misunderstood the point about you sounding like somebody else. She tried to describe your playstyle in a manner that made sense to her, not attempt to use meta against you(like she accused you of having a certain distanced playstyle that was similar to somebody else, not because you sounded like somebody else and he was scum).That whole arguement was semantics and really minor(and annoying to read)
I think you scumread her for the same reason that you scumread Blackstar: because you don't like their playstyle. Whether this is intentional(as in attacking stuff that you objectively think it's bad so you can look town) or it's your playstyle I can't tell at the moment.I agree her townreading the people voting her was strange but I don't find that suspicious(and I think Snow has talked about this). But if you examine the motivation it looks firmly town from my standpoint.
Bearbert D
Because you lack subtlety and I know mod meta means your role is town-aligned.BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Ranger, I don't understand how you're town reading me?
You know, you keep on saying it's meta...but it's really not.MagnaofIllusion wrote: The fact that you are clinging to this stance with every ounce of strength you can muster when the stance is meta (which is generally pretty bad as a source on its own) that isn’t even specific player meta is suspect.
Of course I'm not making a read. That's because the read already exists. I'm not beginning to have a read; the read was formed from the moment I read your posts.And furthermore this whole back and forth with your doesn’t read at all as a player doing anything that actually amounts to making a read.
Or, you know, you areThe constant reference to the Wiki is a perfect example – it is like you believe continually appealing to some outside source will win you the points in the debate.
Admittedly, I was rather lazy in that regard. I never built my case on you. This? This is mostly building off of one point: that you, as town, would absolutely never be advocating for the lynch of a Watcher, a role of absolutely-comparable strength to a cop, especially after making the argument to not lynch a cop. It is an argument showing through definitive evidence that you have shown an inconsistency in your play, which all your walls are trying to cover up.Not a single lick of this discussion revolves around why I'm scum.
Going after a strong town role is null by itself; people are idiots. (See also: Firebringer still thinking I'm scum.) Going after a strong town role, afterBecause if you really did think that someone "Going after a strong Town role" was scummy you would not have come to "Uber Town" reads on all three.
And? Just because the reason for voting isn't valid doesn't mean the player is scum from it. See also: people are idiots.It is that those three players voted you individually for reasons that at best are borderline valid.
Actually, I can. I just haven't. Not once have I made reference to your older posting. And yet, my scumread existed on you prior to your logical inconsistency, which makes up the majority of my posting on you right now. That's because I haven't even made the case on you yet, out of laziness. Not lack of ability. I simply haven't chosen to make it yet.You can’t articulate anything in terms that isn’t broad generalizations and thus go to the “I’m good so sheep me” well.
Here's a new one: TheDominator is the first vote on my wagon. He's willing to join the wagon that his compromise-lynch is pushing.MagnaofIllusion wrote:I’m certainly willing to compromise on Dom as deadline approaches.
This very well could be scum hoping to get traction on my wagon going by making Ircher switch over.Code of Honor wrote:Hey Ircher, what are your thoughts on the Ranger wagon? You said you wanted to lynch Dragon or Ranger, but now that Ranger picks up you forgot that sentiment entirely.
And it's things like this why I don't want to lynch BlackStar.BlackStar wrote:UNVOTE: I just realized that u don't like anyone on the ranger wagon.
Since when? Three of the games I thought were my best scum games, I was lynched in with absolutely no hesitation by the town. (The fourth was also not anything remarkable.) I thought they were good, sure, but apparently there was some giveaway. And in every other scum game except your marathon game (which was aDragon Knight wrote:Ircher, Ranger is quite good at faking a town game
This is the crux of my current back-and-forth with MagnaofIllusion. I can elaborate with extras from his earlier posting if it's not convincing enough by itself. 688 as well.Polar Vortex wrote:So, if I'm willing to take this risk with DK, as are you, why aren't you willing to take the risk with Ranger? Because her reads "don’t logically come from a Town standpoint"? Because her role is weaker? Opinions. Opinions I disagree with. "Opinions" that to me can't logically come from a Town standpoint.
You're downplaying the value of her role and stubbornly scum reading her for things that are just wrong, no matter how well you try to justify them.
Except BlackStar's posting has been getting consistently better and better as the game progresses. In that post, he shows that he's actually thinking about the possibility the wagon he's on is being driven by scum, so he unvotes and reconsiders.Dragon Knight wrote:If that's all it takes for you to townread someone, you're either crappy town or scum.
