Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[ChronX]

The ball is most definitely not in my court; I stated my stance and BM has if anything done more to make me doubtful of him. He in NO WAY needs me to do anything to reveal facts about what he did on each night, nor does he need my assurance that I will fill him in on the rest of my info before HeH posts further. Its horsecrap.

If BM refuses to claim, I will simply vote him instead. He has assured us all that I am town, so if HE is town, that potentially puts him in a very precarious situation. His ongoing behavior reeks scummier by the moment; I think he wants to know what I know so he can spin what I know in case there is incriminating info about him.

All the other 5 of you need to know is that BM didn't visit BM on the night Raffles died, so BM is the only person who I CAN'T potentially clear.

[ChronX]

And Gorgon, your impatience could be seen by innocent townies as another scumtell you've dropped. BM's smoke and mirrors is frustrating, but we are having a lot of discussion and the game only reopened 3 days ago.

[Gorgon]

3 days out of 10 is a lot, and while there's been some discussion, it has been mainly about who should claim what before who. This deadlock seems pretty unresolvable at this point, and if it continues, the days will just drag on and on with no useful discussion.

I agree that BM seems to be holding things up unnecessarily here ... he decided not to claim just because you (ChronX) don't want to reveal straight away whom you tracked on 'the night Raffles died' ... yet another ridiculous holdup. But I also don't understand how BM could spin anything out of this fact (who you tracked on that night).

ChronX doesn't want to say who he tracked until BM claims.

BM doesn't want to claim until ChronX says who he tracked.

... so I think I have every reason to be frustrated.

[distad]

ChronX, can you at least confirm that it was either Gorgon or HeH that you tracked to BM without stating which of the two it was?

At least that might start some progress.

[Hang 'em High]

ChronX -- after BM and I claim will you then reveal the specifics of who you tracked and where they went each night? Based on BM's last post, I think that assurance is the only thing holding him up at this point.

[ChronX]

HeH, yes, although I wouldn't mind at least knowing that Atticus is reading along before I share everything I know, also. His "Oh gee I haven't read at least half the game" shtick is poor, and if he pulls it again after this whole exchange, I'm going to be upset. The other 2 guys who haven't been as vocal as HeH, BM, Gorgon and myself have at least posted enough so that we know they are following along.

[Sonicpulsar]

Just to confirm what Chronx just said, I'm here and accounted for. I'm waiting to see how this pans out. I can understand BM being careful, but at some point (and we've reached it) I have to wonder if BM isn't holding back on purpose in hopes of others spilling the beans first so he can tweak his response accordingly.

[ChronX]

Here's where I stand right now:

While openminded and willing to evaluate BM's information at face value when we receive it, his behavior over the past 2 days has been anything but overwhelmingly pro-town. The cop push, and today's obstinance to give information, is unhelpful.

I also see his proclamations as to my innocence in a light other than the breadcrumbing he is going to point to it as. It would be very easy, as mafia, to pick a few townies that are "guaranteed innocent" and later pick one out and say, I can now CERTIFY this person as innocent. That person is then flattered or reassured, because after all, they are being blessed as definitely protown. I see it as possible buddying.

His delaying also serves an anti-town purpose. Yesterday (real life yesterday) I was critical of Gorgon for "feeling the heat" of the deadline, but I am looking at that differently today. BM can drag this charade out a few more days, and then pressure us into a speed lynch because the deadline is looming. Or we could even all sit here and wait for him indefinitely and end up no lynching, which if we are really at LyLo would be fatal.

With all that said, I am going to set my own deadline, in 4 and 1/2 hours from this post, for my vote on BM. It is 1030 my time, at 3 my time I am going to vote for him.

[ChronX]

Cross posted with SP, who seems to agree with me.

[distad]

ChronX, is the person you tracked to BM definitely either Gorgon or HeH?

[Hang 'em High]

I am going to set my own deadline, in 4 and 1/2 hours from this post, for my vote on BM. It is 1030 my time, at 3 my time I am going to vote for him.

You do realize if BM is town (and you are), doing this will likely cost us the game. Of course this assumes we're at LYLO (which is likely) -- one townie vote on another and we lose if the scum are paying attention.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, since I'm finding BM's stalling suspicious. I'm just not sure he's so suspicious it's worth risking a loss. At least make sure he's been on site and active before voting.

[Hang 'em High]

EBWOP: I just noticed that BM is indeed online now. I think it's reasonable to expect him to respond.

[Battle Mage]

ChronX, is the person you tracked to BM definitely either Gorgon or HeH?

Lol, it interests me greatly to see that:

1. Chronx has STILL deliberately failed to respond to the question posed by Distad.
2. Chronx has STILL deliberately failed to accept that once i have claimed fully, i suspect him to follow suit.
3. Chronx is accusing ME of stalling the game, when in actuality, the fact that the game is no moving is down to him not keeping his word.
4. Players like Gorgon (and probably others who i cba to name) also repeatedly claim that I am stalling the game, when in fact as HeH said, we not only have plenty of time, but we were also waiting on Chronx to reveal what we agreed he would do after Gorgon claimed.
5. It is the confirmed townies at this point who are striking me as so unhelpful. Which really sucks.

But anyway Chronx isnt going to be helpful today, so i will go ahead and claim anyway. I srsly hope that once you know i am innocent Chronx, you get a grip-and fast. We aren't hard up for time today, but that doesnt mean that concealing information for an unnecessary amount of time is acceptable either.

Claim (once again) pending.

BM

[ChronX]

ME keeping MY word, BM? Where have I said I would reveal all before you claimed?

vote: BattleMage

[distad]

<sigh>

[Gorgon]

BM, I'm not saying that you're the one responsible for stalling - ChronX is also guilty of this, IMO.

Also, we do NOT have plenty of time, and I can't see HeH saying this anywhere. I'm sick of this jerking around.

And now I see you're not even logged in, even though you said you were going to claim.

Claim, already.

Vote: Battle Mage

[Hang 'em High]

Why would you guys vote when BM is not even on? If he happens to be town the scum can win the game now (unless you're both part of that group). I agree he's stalling -- and putting words in my mouth. He could very well be scum. BUT WE CAN'T TAKE THAT CHANCE. Unvote now and vote again when he's online. But to leave two votes on him when he's not on the site and we're in a likely LYLO situation is reckless.

[Gorgon]

You're right ...

Unvote

I was ready to do this at a moment's notice. This was also a test to see if anyone would jump on with me.

Still not liking BM though.

[Hang 'em High]

I don't like his answers either. I just think two votes at this point is too rash.

@ChronX

. In order to move this along, assuage BM's concerns and put more pressure on him to claim, will you please answer the following?

1. Did you track either me or Gorgon on the night Raffles was killed? You don't have to reveal which one -- but please confirm it was one of the two.

2. Will you claim fully (including all results) once BM and I have done so?

I hate having a vote on BM in a likely LYLO situation. We've got a lot more information at our disposal that hasn't been revealed and I'd like it all out there before voting. If you answer "yes" to both those questions and BM doesn't claim then I'll vote for him as well.

[ChronX]

unvote

BM, who is this "we" who agreed what I would do? I am not part of that we, I have said repeatedly that I think you are waiting to tailor your claim until you find out what I know. It is for that very reason that I am pointedly ignoring Distad's pleas.

[ChronX]

In regard to 2, I will post more thoroughly once I hear from you and BM.

[Hang 'em High]

Thank you both for unvoting -- I think it's the wise thing to do at this point. Now I will say this:

@ Battle Mage: Claim fully now.

Don't wait for ChronX -- I'm not wild about his delays but I think they're more justified than yours. Claim now. If you claim fully and I claim fully and ChronX still withholds information then I'll go after him full throttle. If you don't claim now, I'm going after you full throttle. We

don't

have a lot of time and we're going to have a lot to analyze. We need all the information at our disposal out in the open now. Let's get this done and move on.

[Hang 'em High]

If you don't claim now, I'm going after you full throttle.

EBWOP: If I see that BM is on the site and doesn't claim, then I'm going to vote for him.

[ChronX]

I take it the results you found the night you visited him are ambiguous?

[Battle Mage]

Role: Jack of All Trades

Ability:
several 1-shot powers which can be used at night.

At the start of the game i had:
1 shot Cop Investigation.
1 shot Doc Protection.
1 shot Roleblock.
1 shot NK Immunity.
1 shot Redirect.
1 shot Vig-Kill.

I may have forgotten one, but i think thats it.

Anyway, here's the story which should explain my play this game:

Night 0, i used my Cop Investigation. When i first got my role, i was kinda expecting to be NKed night 0, hence my pleasant surprise on Day 1. It was obvious to use my Investigation then-at least whatever happened, i'd have some information to pass on. Knowing SPAG, and that he had 'coincidentally' given me the most powerful damn protown power role i've ever seen, i felt looking back at the signups list, i might be able to get some indication of who he had made scum. I saw that SurveySays had an interesting '/in' post, so i targetted him. I'm sure you can go back and check this for yourselves-i dont remember exactly what he said, but i remember feeling decent about hitting scum with him. As it goes, i was wrong, and the result was TOWN.
And so i knew SurveySays was town-unfortunately this knowledge wasnt very helpful when he was lurking the game away. Eventually, he was replaced by Chronx-who did post prolifically. I believe i made a breadcrumb when he replaced in, inferring "i trust you implicitly", and followed his vote. This was picked up on by Gorgon i believe, who justifiably found my vote following suspicious. With hindsight, it was stupid to follow the vote of someone just because you know they are town, but at the time i was trying to communicate to him that i knew he was town.
Anyway at the end of Day 1, i had come up with an awesome plan. I figured that my days were numbered (or nights to be more accurate), so i decided to do an analysis of every single player, with the primary intention of breadcrumbing my innocent result on Chronx, in case i died, but with the other intention of luring Distad into a trap. If i recall, my 3 innocents at the end of Day 1 were Chronx, Distad, and SonicPulsar. I should note that i genuinely found SP to look very protown at the time. I was extremely happy to see him criticise my analysis of Distad (which was total BS btw). It gave me very good vibes. Now why was i trying to lure Distad into a trap?
Simple really. With the opportunity to RoleBlock scum, but only working if i hit the one who did the kill, i figured the scum would:
1. send the person who was under least suspicion, to commit the kill.
2. have significant input from an active player like Distad, if he were scum.
I figured if i lulled him into a false sense of security, he would send the kill, and i just might be able to successfully RoleBlock him.
Of course, when Night fell, i had come up with an alternative idea. I asked Theo, and found that i was allowed to use the Redirect option in the same way as a RoleBlock, except that instead of potentially stopping a kill, i could redirect a kill back onto the scum! Unsure which one to use, and rather busy at the time anyway, i failed to send in a choice before the Day opened. I pmed Theo asking why the heck he didnt prod me, and he then told me that it didn't matter anyway because i had been RoleBlocked.
So i never got to put my plan into action, but on the upside, i still had most of my 1-shot powers by Day 2.
Now, the Mason claim was another issue to be dealt with. Of course, i couldnt confirm them either way, but i felt that because the scum weren't going to kill 1 at night, and leave 1 confirmed for the day, we had to lynch one at some point. My idea was ofc, after 1 had been lynched, should the other be confirmed, to protect them at night, and almost certainly cost the scum a kill. But more on that later.
At the time, i simply wanted to confirm them either way if possible. Knowing that we would lose 2 people before the next day, i dreaded the possibility of losing the Cop before he had the chance to claim and we could have ended up losing the game not knowing the affiliation of the masons. Of course, i knew i could offer the Cop 1 nights protection, should he claim, anyway, so i felt it was worth it. That was until Chronx brought something rather important to my attention- the fact that there could easily be a Godfather in this game. This was important for 2 reasons.
1. It meant that even a cop investigation on 1 mason wouldnt be conclusive, making a cop claim less valuable.
2. It meant that my innocent result on Chronx was now far from assured. I still maintain that until we hit scum and can ascertain whether they appear as 'Goon' or 'Member', we cannot be sure about mafia power roles. The fact that he even brought it up gave me some doubts.

Anyway it was also on Day 2, that HeH made some strange breadcrumbs. I spent most of the day trying to ascertain whether or not he was trying to communicate with me-on the assumption that i thought he might have been the RoleBlocker. Again, please go back and read my questions at this time. I tried to be as subtle as possible, but in the end, i came to the conclusion that he probably wasnt the RB.

I wont go into detail about the whole BM vs CKD issue. At the time i was by no means convinced by his claim, but i didnt think it was worth lynching him over immediately. You can see for yourselves how helpful his suicide strategy would have been for the town. It would literally have killed our chances. Of course, we wasted a lynch on him, but on the bright side, we at least got rid of a very big distraction.

And then at the end of Day 2, we had a pretty big blunder from Chronx. His Tracker claim had good and bad points. On the upside, it eased my mind of any doubts i had about him. I find it pretty damn impossible that he would not only be a Godfather, but also know who the RB targetted and when. The only possible combo that fits is a Mafia GF-RB pair. Of course, if we mislynch today and see tomorrow, this may become something you should note, but for now, highly unlikely. Hence i am 99.8% sure that Chronx is town. The only thing that gives me any doubts is the number of power role claims we seem to have. With a Doc dead, we also have a Jack of All Trades and RoleBlocker for sure. Tracker, and 2 masons in addition, PLUS we havent heard all the claims yet. Seems ridiculously unbalanced for a 3 man scumteam.
The negative side of Chronx's claim was that it forced my hand. Because he wouldn't respond to my request for him to claim who he saw targetting me on that night (because obv, i could afford them protection that night as a top priority, and scum wouldnt know they were a strong power role anyway). Because of this, i had to use my Protect on him last night. Whilst Desisted was confirmed innocent, so was Chronx, and Chronx had a very useful power role.
Hence we lost Desisted.
Anyway, thats pretty much it i think. Today i again find Chronx's play unhelpful, and ftr Chronx, in future games, you need to srsly work on looking more protown. When reading your play, i found you nearly as scummy looking as Gorgon/Distad, and i KNEW you were town. lol

I said earlier that i was relieved that Gorgon was the RB, because i very nearly considered Vigging him at times. Glad i didnt, now. lol

There may be some other breadcrumbs i left, but i cant remember them.

That is my claim. Next i want Chronx to claim ONLY who he saw target me on the Night Raffles died. I dont want a full claim-just the bare necessities to allow me to get a grip with where we are.
HeH can claim after, and ONLY AFTER, Chronx has met this request.

i hope this clears up any issues with my play.

By the way, if anyone has any doubts about my claim, i have 1 special breadcrumb up my sleeve. Unfortunately as it is slightly immoral to use it, i'd rather not unless i have to. But just so you know.

BM