Kingmaker II-Game Over

[mnowax]

ive asked brian if he wants me as a replacement. i will start reading the 56(!!) pages now, and if i dont replace, i jave a couple of years wasted off my life. no biggie.

[mnowax]

i still have not heard from Brian yet, but i am getting close to finishing rereading the thread. Every time i come back, a new page is added! Oh and SpectrumVoid, nice quip about the replacements.

omgus : SV

[mnowax]

Unvote all

as well and

vote MoS

this game has a lot of people that are replacejing. this day might not need to last longer, but give some of these people time. only scum would benefit from lynching right now.

[mnowax]

uhh..wow... that makes the rest of my rereading easier.

non commital king i see we have here, huh?

who doesn't like dead, non-commital kings? *raises hand*

;P

[mnowax]

glork, don't glork him man, look at the mess it would cause....

[mnowax]

whos up for rolling the dice?

[mnowax]

Vote: dead rikku

kill anyone!

[mnowax]

what a sad thing to happen to this game. this was looking very good for a long while until KDR stall stoppped us flat.

[mnowax]

i think that the following people are suspicious.

Vote:Samshy (sorry i thought DR was stalling too much to be protown)

MoS (shameless wagoning by me)

and pablito (for getting me into this game with his sig!)

[mnowax]

Kil: DoS

of the following LOE, Dos is most scummy in my opinion.

[mnowax]

im still working on it! and i replaced how long ago?

[mnowax]

Vote: Smashy ( i thought Dead was scum, sorry) MoS ( i dunno gut i guess ) and Toaster Strudel (i like pop tarts biatch!)

[mnowax]

OK then. I will get a chance hopefully tonight or tomorrow and do a full ecal on MoS. I just wanted to stay out otf the posting novels and such, but if you want one you'll get one. until then

UnVote all, Vote: Mastermind of Sin

ill prove it in a later post.

[mnowax]

To start with:

You'd better hope I become King soon, then. I'm not afraid of the big bad vote. If the King decides to execute me, so be it. I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

Can you actually make any kind of argument why you not voting is helpful to the town?

And I don't know why you're assuming the opinion of the people who don't like your "plan" to never vote is meaningless. For one thing, our current king has already said he is going to take votes into account when making a list of people he'd consider executing. For another, making multiple people wonder why you're acting in an apparently anti-town way is bad because you never know who will be king tommorow.

Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I just

don't

care

. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

This is ludicrous! You plan not to vote in a game where the Votes mean little in terms of this game? And you don't have a reason for it! you just try to shirk it off. So you berate the people who are looking at you funnny to get them off your back. very nice. and very scummy.

My problem is that I am trying to understand why MoS would defend Phoebus for reasons I don't even understand, and for reasons I think do absolutely nothing in making me think Phoebus is pro-town. If MoS is scum, I seriously doubt he would defend his partner so blatantly and so poorly (WIFOM, blah blah, I know). If MoS is town, then he might actually be on to something, and I am just plain not understanding what he is getting at. (Of course, he could easily be town and completely wrong, in which case I will have to thwack him over the head later).

One thing about this.... the only time I can recall watching MoScum extensively was CoOps Mafia, in which he defended DGB near the beginning of her implosion. Though you say you wouldn't expect MoS to blatantly defend a scumbuddy, I've seen it in person. It's a distinct possibility.

That's because DGB was the only person in my scumgroup that could efficiently investigate people for me. I needed those investigations, so I had to stick my neck out to keep her alive for longer even though I knew it would get me in trouble. Even with what went down, I think we had a good chance at winning if not for random shit that happened afterwards.

What possible reason could I have for thinking Phoebus was more important than myself in my scumgroup, unless the mafia in this game have a bunch of special power abilities? What could I hope to gain by sticking my neck out on Day 1, knowing that once one of us died and was revealed as scum, the other would probably be executed in the near future? This isn't the sort of situation where sticking my neck out to give a scumbuddy one extra day will mean the difference between winning the game and losing it.

I would have no reason to do this except for the express purpose of trying to wifom you into thinking I wasn't scum with him, but the wifom would only come into full effect AFTER he died and was revealed as scum, so you get into the big circle of logic and points that make my head hurt, so I'm not gonna bother trying to type it all out. It's really up to you to spin the wheel of circular logic and pick a place to stop.

This part is from the Phoebus defense from MoS. Were you trying to incite the meta-gaming Wifom? I absolutely hate this line of thinking. i believe this gets dropped after this , so i am bringing it back up now. Do you think Phoebus / Dragons of summer is innocent now?

LuckayLuck: I expect he’s not scum from the sheer number of players he’s marked off as townie to highly townie, I would expect a scum player to mark off fewer townies in order to keep more viable lynch candidates around. I also don’t believe he’s working to get people to not suspect him by saying he thinks they are townie because he’s simply cast too many of those connections.

Agreed. His posts so far look very pro-town to me.

Mastermind of Sin
He starts off by saying he’s never going to vote till he’s King, certainly something I’d expect from MoS, it doesn’t really change whether he’s more or less likely to be scum because this guy honestly doesn’t care about what role he is when he does things, if he wants to do it, he’ll do it regardless of which side he’s on.

He honestly doesn’t say very much this game, he doesn’t push very hard for the people he thinks are guilty or defend adamantly the people he thinks are innocent. Basically he won’t be saying much, this is type of behaviour is more in line with general MoS behaviour, he will pursue it regardless of alignment. I’m more willing to put him in my townie column because I’ve just seen so many games where MoS psuedolurks through and will defend his lurkish strategy.

I still don't like his "I won't vote" stance, and he hasn't done as much as I would like this game,

but he has committed to strong non-logical stances on several people, just flatly declaring that cardboardbox, PJ, and Phoebus were town for no apparent reason.

This actually is pretty typical behavior from a pro-town MOS, he often "goes on gut", is absolulty convinced he's right, gives no arguments to back himself up, and then is frustrated no one listens to him. I'll take another look at him later if some of the people he's defended turn out to be scum, but for now, I'm slightly leaning towards him being pro-town. Want to hear more from him though, and it'd be nice if he'd answer my questions (such as "who would be on your LOE right now if you were king?").

Mert
The guy doesn’t really say much of substance, I can say the same thing for plenty of players so far. The easiest way for scum to hide is to stay within the current, when they see most players lurk, they will follow along and do the same.

Agreed.

In general, I like Pooky's analysis posts so far, his logic is quite similar to what I've been thinking, and he's moved up to about neutral in my eyes (he was around "slighly scummy" before, back during the pre-crash bird wagon).

I take offense to this. I would argue that I generally DO make arguments (outside of scumchat) and present reasoning why I think someone is scum. This game is an exception. Perhaps if you could link me to other games where I have exhibited this behavior, it would lend weight to your claim, because i certainly don't remember doing something like this often.

In general i agree with Yos's analysis. you have made substanceless claims about certain people, and yet give zero reason to this up to this point. I would understand this if you're picking out scum, but generally why would you point out townies? why are you so reluctant to point out too many scum? and now look at this..

I support either a Yos or Pooky execution, good finds, Glork. I'd still prefer Yos, though.

Now Yos is the top of your hit list for pointing out your play.

ill continue later, but this is just a start. Some of you are blindly standing behind MoS because his experience and playstyle are erratic and he is a veteran of Mafia. I'm not seeing past it.

[mnowax]

Yeah i might be lurking a bit because ( until now ) i haven't had much to say, it doesn't mean i don't care about this game. Leave the dead weight behind and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On a separate note, MoS, My theory is that you have a tendency of just throwing out suspicions, which thats fine if its who you think is scummy, but you throwing the " X is town " without you really being suspicious of anyone disturbs me a bit. Thats all, it's not much, but it seems to me to be a change in play style. i don't like to meta-game, but in this case it is almost obvious to me.

Go ahead make me sweat. I am not afraid of going to the noose to show everyone I am town.

[mnowax]

go ahead kill me now. It will just allow scum to win with ease.

vote: anyone who thinks that i have no legit point.

[mnowax]

MOS - Yes lynch him i have already given my reasons.
Vitiman R (replaced dragon of summer, replaced phoebus) - my Vibe is that hes good. No lynch

Spectrum Void - No lynch her. she might be cute ;p seriously i get twon vibes from her posts

Smashy - my gut feeling was that Dead Rikimaruwas scum holding out on the kingmanship. id go for his lynch as well.

[mnowax]

[
One other thing that has been strangly missing today is defenses; basically none of the people on my LOE have even tried to make an argument why they shouldn't be lynched or tried to respond to the points raised against them, which seems a bit odd to me.

I guess that there is no need to be defensive in this situation. you can kill me, you can not kill me. there is nothing that i can say that would change your mind one way or another. I am Town. That is the only defense that I need.

[mnowax]

There is no case against me. People have pointed out that i have not given out many reasons of why i vote. I really don't have much on anyone, other than MoS. I have already given my reasons on that. I am not speaking much because i am having such a hard time getting a read on anyone.

Is there any thing else you would like to know?

[mnowax]

I have been prodded, but i still have nothing to say.

[mnowax]

yeah. i ve given everything you wanted yos. anything else?

[mnowax]

There is no case against me.

If that was true, you wouldn't be on my LOE right now.

The case I had against you was this:

CTD/mnowax: had kind of flown under my radar, as mnowax always does look kind of scummy, but MOS has some good points about him. I don't the timing or the logic of his attack on MOS, and I don't like his general behavior today. Even more so, CTD dosn't look good either; he didn't say all that much himself, and what he did say looks quite suspicious. One of the few posts where CTD did commit to anything was this post:

I want neither Pooky nor Yos to be executed. Pooks posting a huge analysis resonates with my townie cord, because I've seen him make an effort when threatened to be lynched as town before. The analysis itself is more or less what I'd expect from a townie. I didn't register any malicious twisting of facts or other related shenanigans, and while I don't agree with all of it, that doesn't make me want to see him dead.

As for Yos, I just don't see a good enough case against him to warrant an execution.

I would fully support executing the following people at this point:
- StallingChamp. Although Zindaras disagrees, his contradiction

was

scummy to me, and he has proven himself to be utterly useless ever since. His predecessor ChannelDelibird wasn't as bad, but looking over his posts, I'm not too fond of him either.
- Twomz. Reasons stated before. Prominent member of the bird wagon, piggybacked onto Fritzler, used Burden of Proof, dropped off the face of the earth. The fact that his replacement is taking forever to drop by isn't exactly reassuring either.

If you want me to comment on anything else before the deadline hits, make it snappy.

Which, in retrospect, looks like a defense of Pooky, with a quick "Yos dosn't really look scummy either" comment thrown in to semi-disguise the defense of pooky.

Also, MOS laid out some interesting points against you, I would suggest responding to those posts as well.

Ok i shall respond directly to this. I can not take anything from CTD, but he is right. A lot of PBPA's i see is a town tell as most scum can just fly under the radar. I don't know what he was getting to in regards of you being town, other than there was really no case against you, similar to what is happening with me right now. . The timing of my"attack" should not be even factored into this ame. I am coming to this game at different , not regular intervals, and i just tell it like i see it. I am posting into a stalling game, My behavior although a little snippy i admit, is only due to the stagnation of this game in general. That is why i have already called for the Head of Whomever is replacing Dead riku ( i think its battle mage now) . Once again i have already stated my case against MoS. It is like beating a dead horse here. Anything else you want me to do to stay alive?

[mnowax]

Am I walking to the gallows?

Great and I liked this game a lot. I am town though, and you will find that out when i am killed. I don't believe Yos is scum for this though. My suspicions are definitely on MoS and BattleMage. Sorry man you replaced the scummiest person so far in this game. Final words of a Dead Man are true. I hope that my life will be for the good of the Kingdom. Long Live the King!

[mnowax]

Vote MoS

I was quite suprized when i replaced battle mage what my role is now. I am still favoring a Master execution for the reasons that i have stated before. I am so far getting pro town vibes from Petrol-jelly

How did we go from:

Yosarian's
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 511#544511
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 820#548820

in which mnowax wasn't on the shortlist or the final List of Execution, to mnowax not only joining the list but becoming Yos' main target?

My feeling on mnowax remains as it was: I don't have a strong read on him, either way, but the way this day has turned around and zero'd on him makes me feel that he's being set up as a "safe" kill... there's not going to be much information from mnowax because not many people (if any) have taken really strong stands about him, but at the same time he hasn't done anything especially townie that makes him look like an insupportable choice.

I am particularly amazed after all that has happened that Yosarian hasn't put his money where his mouth is and put Phoebus' replacement front and center for the lynch. Perhaps he's not interested in proving himself wrong?


I point this stuff out, of course, because I think we're watching a scum King at work and I would like to make sure his tactics are not missed.

I agree with Rafk here i believe that i was being set up for a kill here. I dont believe that Yos was in on it, but i do believe that a lot of the people who were Trying to take me down were scum. The following votes were placed on me:

Fritzler
Shamba
Thadmiral
Thesp
Toaster Strudel
and our King, Zinderas

More to come.

[mnowax]

my god please don't kill me again King! lol

[mnowax]

Finally someone who sees what i do!

[mnowax]

So far LoE and my opinions (not that they will account for much)



SV- i dont think Voidy is a good lynch canidate ...yet...

VitR- I could go for his head. His tactics are a little shady when it comes to defense

Thr Fritz- Lycnh his ass need i say more?

[mnowax]

Once again ill will post my thoughts on the LoE shortly. i am reading this thread

[mnowax]

im up for SV

[mnowax]

you mean youre not dead yet?

Vote: M o S

Come on man meaningful posts? Nothing to say here.

[mnowax]

Yarr kind of.

[mnowax]

Me too. I would like to

Vote Fritz, Yos, and Vitr.

Cause i can.

[mnowax]

Very interesting...

[mnowax]

is still here. Once again nothing much to say.

[mnowax]

WAHHH KING! MOS IS TELLING ON ME!!!!

[mnowax]

VOTE: MOS

[mnowax]

Yos:

His kingdom (who ended up killing me beforehand) Still gets pro-town vibes from me, rather than the fact he hammered a townie, i still believe his actions were just in his decision. His LoE i believe that he had a majority of scum on his list, and i wouldn't be too saddened to let any of them be killed. However of the two i'd be more likely to hammer Yos rather than Kscope, but mostly for OMGUS reasons. They both pretty much look townie to me.

[mnowax]

I have been taking some critizism here, and since that king has no sympathy here, i shall do my assignment.

First K-Scope:


[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Well,

readed everything now

Scratch that, i've started to skim after 2 hours of reading... I've been busy 3 hours total, just for this game. I can say Bird1111 didn't leave me with a very good replacement spot, considering his sudden switch at the start at day 2. I can seriously say that I even would suspect myself if I didn't knew I was town.

Suspicion list²:
Pablito (mainly because he's agreeing more and more with Glork, which I find a very uncomfortable way of play (not that I suspect Glork, but the play itself)
Cardboardbox (For reasons stated in my previous post)
Pooky (for his actions on early day 2, then continue to lurk to sway off suspicion again. He returned with a reasonable post, but he has to convince me just yet)

To a lesser extent:
Fritzler (For his really odd play. I don't know if he usually does so, but it annoys me quite a bit)
Phoebus (Everytime he pops up, he makes me feel he's scum, but when others reply to it and he replys back, he looks more like town to me)
PJ (His D1 play still doesn't sit me well, especially since he moreover executed Rosso over suspects he had longer in mind. Although it could've been more a pressured paranoia victem)
Lurkers

For the record: i'm not really pro for a Yosarain2 execution, but that's mainly on gut feelings. I'm leaving the decision in the hands of our King.

That's all for now. Going to take a break now. If anyone has any questions towards me, just let me know.[/quote]


The following post, i think makes me think he is quite pro town. Although he lurks after this post, it seems to me that it would not be a good tactic to buss Pooky for no real reason, who ended up being scum, I also believe that His top three are the top three that i would probably go for a lynch still.

Overall thoughts is that he is town.

[mnowax]

you are going to kill K scope? woot!

[mnowax]

mnowax, why do you want kscope dead?

its not that i do or don't. I just want to survive!

[mnowax]

we can start by executing you, scum.

[mnowax]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

[mnowax]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

If you don't think Kscope is scum, why were you so excited to see that he might be executed?

I was only happy cause it isn't me. Read my crappy posts man!

[mnowax]

I see what you mean about Cavane, Thesp. I am wondering how many scum are left, and the way he says that "our mis-executions are running short" is quite a problem. As Rosso would say, " I'd Hammah."

Vote: Cavane

[mnowax]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

If you don't think Kscope is scum, why were you so excited to see that he might be executed?

I was only happy cause it isn't me. Read my crappy posts man!

Try reading *my* posts. You still haven't answered the questions I posed to you about this topic. As a protown, player, you should not be worrying about your own survival unless there is actually a benefit to the town in keeping you alive. Since there are not any roles to be lost in this game, I *still* want you to explain why it is more important to keep you alive rather than Kscope. Do you believe that you have contributed more to the game discussion than he has?

I am thinking of my survival due to the people i have replaced have made me look So scummy, that i think it is a minor miracle that i haven't died yet. I think that Yos is scum, due to the fact ( and i know i am going to getexecuted for this one) that i am an easy execution for any pro town player acting as king.

No i dont believe that i have contributed as much as k-scope, but it doesn't mean he's any less scum or i am more scum becasue of it.

[mnowax]

I am thinking of my survival due to the people i have replaced have made me look So scummy, that i think it is a minor miracle that i haven't died yet. I think that Yos is scum, due to the fact ( and i know i am going to getexecuted for this one) that i am an easy execution for any pro town player acting as king.

Wait, what? So you think I'm not pro-town because I haven't executed you yet? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Either he just claimed scum or he meant to say he's an easy execution for any pro-scum player acting as king but screwed it up. One or the other.

actually, niether. I am saying that if Yos was pro town, i would be dead by now,i reek of scumminess. Doesn't mean i am,i am just saying that i look really bad. Yos is scum because i am an easy target for a town king. Any townie with a right mind in his head would have killed me a long time ago, i just look so scummy. However, Yos is trying to execute someone that looks less scummy, because when a townie king comes up, then ill be dead as a misexecution and scum would be one step closer to winning.
here let me put it like this

Yostown:

MNOWAX looks scummy more than anyone else. I should kill him.

Yoscum:

MNOWAX looks so scummy that any other townie king would kill him. I'll build a case against another townie and get him killed, so a townie king will kill MNOWAX due to his scumminess. that way scum will get even closer to winning.

Got what i am saying?

[mnowax]

lol i
ts all i have to go on in this game, really. JIve got nothijng, and i can't in my lifetime re read 114 pages of this game again.

[mnowax]

Oh and before i forget:

Yoscum! Kill MoS!

[mnowax]

Look up, Fritz.

[mnowax]

Okey Dokey.

First is MoS.His tactics in this game have been deplorable at best. He makes few votes, and just straight attacks people with little or no evidence.

Vote: MoS

I have been lurking a lot lately, as i have been running around IRL . I hope to make more of an effort., including reading back on K-scope's posts. I will also be more vigilant in looking at people here.

[mnowax]

yeah, i have question. Are you scum?

[mnowax]

w00T!

[mnowax]

Me? I thought it was obvious by now. MoS!

lesser to thadmiral and fritz.

[mnowax]

TS, if you are going to insult me, call me something that i am.

[mnowax]

Happy Birthday Kingmaker!

[mnowax]

w00t ! i got prodded!

im working on a re read and ill be able to post everything soon.

[mnowax]

Slow? Steady? Its about time! We need to root out scum i think we are close to losing, so i think we really need to look back here. Fritz, was that the real reason why you were lurking so much in this game? must have been. My top suspects were Rafk and MoS as usual, however I think that Thadmiral and Theopor could be scum now that Rafk has come up town. Any thoughts?

[mnowax]

Add Toaster to that list.

Infact

Vote: Thadmiral, Toaster Strudel, Theopor, and PJ for that matter

I haven't trusted you since you did that little swerve before.

[mnowax]

PJ, youre scum. Execute Fritz today.

[mnowax]

My first reaction was OMG how could you not kill me in my second incarnation when i replaced again. My suprize was actually living 3 days after that.

Also i want to apologize to anyone in the game after my second incarnation for lurking so much. I knew that any thing said by me was going to get me killed. i needed as much as possible to fade into the background. Fortunately it worked enoug to last into endgame.

[mnowax]

oh by the way is anyone going to vote me for "evading the noose" scummy? Or the "i was so scummy that i looked not scummy, but actually was scummy" scummy?

[mnowax]

By the way, I think KM 1 and KM 2 show that we need to work on the setup a bit. Just sayin'.

KM1 had too many confirmed townies.

KM2 had more scum and no roles to balance that and in the end was a mountainous with too much scum.:p

Actually, significantly worse then a mountanious.

And again, this game is yet another good example of why all lurkers need to die. Out of the 3 scum at endgame, 2 were lurkerscum, and lurkers that had previously been replaced for lurking multiple times at that. Nearly every game I've lost as town recently, it's been partly because of lurkerscum...

I absoultely agree with the lurkers should die. I am always usually on the case when it comes to that. The unfortunate part about this particular game is that I was a replacement to three pther people that ALL lurked. I knew that the only way i could get out with my head stilll intact was to lurk. I willl not say that me lurking was right or wrong, but it was definitely a survival tactic. like i said before, i only believe that the amount of heat on myself/DR was so great i think it was an achievement in of itself to make it to endgame.

Yea. I think we can all agree that mnowax didn't deserve this win.

Why is that? Dead scum win just as much as alive scum. I don't deserve this win because i wasn't executed?