Mini 489: Short and Sweet Mafia - Game Over

[Guardian]

Thinking about it -- what if Xdaamno is the last scum?

ABR got killed because he was a RBer, who blocked Xdaamno. He was killed instead of a cop.

Just throwing that out there. I still think VitaminR is better, for his adoption of Rishi's fake case one me, and because CES picked him as a target. CES didn't know for sure that his claim wouldn't be believed.


FWIW: I can understand the case one me, I think . I defended Sarc heavily, and was not at all suspicious of Coron. I did figure out CES was scum(my) and helped lynch him, but other than that I have associated with the wrong people.

Is that basically your guys's suspicion of me? Because that is true, I associated with evil people -- but I did it for legitimate reasons; they had me fooled. If any of my logic looks contrived or fishy, point it out and maybe I can explain.

Making the wrong reads =/= being scum.


I hate to say this, but we are in a great spot in the game; while lynching me would stop us from getting a perfect game, I can see how lynching me looks like it makes a lot of sense, and I doubt that a me-mislynch would prevent us from winning. We just need to be sure that whoever we lynch we do it before another month passes.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So you dont have some kind of amazing claim to save you?

Also that bit about ABR being a roleblocker makes no sense btw.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Xdaamno
Mastermind of Sin
CrashTextDummie
Rishi
PookyTheMagicalBear
VitaminR
Guardian
Kinetic rp. trumpezia

Rishi
Pooky
MoS

Are Certainly Protown from RoleActions.

Which leaves,

5 Players to be lynched/investigated/vigged:

Kinetic
CTD
VitaminR
Guardian
Xdaamno




I'm taking CTD off the list because I doubt his interaction with Sarc was that between 2 scum,

which leads me to

Kinetic VitaminR, Guardian, Xdaamno as possible scum.

My proposal? Lynch/Vig 2 with MoS investigating another one(just coordinate so MoS and Rishi dont target same person.

That will leave us tommorrow with 5 Players alive and only 1 uncleared person who we will obviously lynch if MoS gets a innocent on the other one.

Basically I think we have this in the bag.

[Rishi]

Thinking about it -- what if Xdaamno is the last scum?

ABR got killed because he was a RBer, who blocked Xdaamno. He was killed instead of a cop.

I am not sure what the case is on you, Guardian. But I wanted to address this point.

According to Ibby's death scene, ABR was just a Commoner. I guess there's a slight possibility that the exact roles aren't revealed on death, just the alignment, but I tend to think ABR lied about his role in order to prevent himself from being lynched. This was probably bad play, but it actually ended up working out for the town.

I had an analysis of who was left, but Pooky simul-posted a better and more concise analysis. The thing I'm most worried about, however, is that Pooky is some kind of godfather. We can worry about that later if we're not hitting the last scum.

I do want to hear from CTD, who has not posted in a very long time. Xdammo and VitaminR also haven't checked in since Day 3 dawned.

Ibby - when you're feeling better, maybe we can get some prods?

[Kinetic]

OK Here is my vote count analysis.
KEY:

SCUM are RED

Uncontested (All but proven) claims are BLUE

Confirmed Townies are Green

"Investigated Innocents" are Purple

Page 2 Vote Count

Sarcastro

(3): VitaminR, CTD,

Albert

Albert

(3):

MoS

,

Pooky

,

trumpezia

Pooky

(1): Guardian
Guardian (1):

Sarcastro

trumpezia

(1): Xdaamno

Not voting (2):

Coron

,

Rishi

11 living, 6 to lynch

Page 3 vote count

Albert

(3):

MoS

,

Pooky

,

trumpezia

Sarcastro

(2): CTD,

Albert

CTD (2):

Sarcastro

, Guardian
trumpezia (1): Xdaamno
Guardian (1): VitaminR

Not voting (2):

Coron

,

Rishi

11 living, 6 to lynch

Holy Crap, It's Page 4 Vote Count

Sarcastro

(5): CTD,

Albert,

VitaminR,

Rishi

,

MoS

Albert

(2):

Pooky

,

Coron

CTD (1):

Sarcastro

trumpezia

(1): Xdaamno
VitaminR: (1) Guardian


Not voting: (1) trumpezia

11 living, 6 to lynch

Page 5 Vote Count

Albert

(4):

Pooky

,

Coron

,

CES

,

Rishi

CES

(3): CTD, VitaminR,

MoS

Coron

: (1)

Albert

trumpezia

: (1) Xdaamno


Not voting: (2) trumpezia, Guardian

Day 1 Final Vote Count

CES

(6): CTD, VitaminR,

MoS

,

Albert

, Guardian,

Rishi

Albert (3): Pooky,

Coron

,

CES

Kinetic: (1) Xdaamno

11 living, 6 to lynch

Sarc -1 First time

Sarcastro

(5): CTD,

Albert

, VitaminR,

Rishi

,

MoS

Albert -1

Albert

(5):

Pooky

,

Coron

,

CES

, Guardian,

Rishi

CES (Sarc) Lynch

CES

(6): CTD, VitaminR,

MoS

,

Albert

, Guardian,

Rishi

Ok, the juicy part: Analysis:

First off, I'm pretty sure that Pooky is not the godfather/scum at this point. He is still in Purple, and will stay that way until he is either killed or somehow proven innocent, but for now being purple is enough.

CTD I'm pretty sure is not scum, at this time. That being said, I'm also keeping in mind his whole battle with Sarc could have been distancing... That being said, I don't fully believe that, I'm just keeping it in mind

Xdaamno is very interesting. If you look in the vote counts, he's barely moved at all. I don't think at this time he is a good lynch choice, but for a vig choice he might not be too bad.

So that leaves myself, Guardian, and VitR. We can pretty much be sure that VitR and Guardian are not on the same team. But then again we can be pretty sure there are only 3 scum to begin with. I'm going to re-post the three near lynches, and use my tried and true

SCUMDAR!

Sarc -1 First time

Sarcastro

(5): CTD,

Albert

, VitaminR,

Rishi

,

MoS

Albert -1

Albert

(5):

Pooky

,

Coron

,

CES

, Guardian,

Rishi

CES (Sarc) Lynch

CES

(6): CTD, VitaminR,

MoS

,

Albert

, Guardian,

Rishi

Ok, On the first Sarc near lynch We see that currently the only unknown is VitR. In addition, at this time, both of the known scum are on Albert. My experience is that if a scum is lynched day one, AT LEAST 1 scum is also on the wagon.

Now we look at Albert's near mislynch. We notice that TWO scum are on this lynch already. I cannot see all three scum latching onto a mislynch. It seems too much honestly. This is most of the reason why I believe Pooky to be town. He is on Albert all day 1, and with the other two scum there it would be hard pressed for me to think he's scum. It also gives some (very few) points to Guardian possible Pro-Town.

Last we look at the Actual CES/Sarc lynch. Same 5 people as before, but with the addition of Guardian. His vote LOOKS like a scum bus. So he loses a lot of the points he gained from nearly mislynching Albert... As weird as that sounds, I think you understand what I mean.

But we also still have VitR here. In my opinion, this is the list of scum, in my head, from scummiest to most townish.

VitR
Guardian
Xdaamno

So I'm a little hesitent to vote VitR right this moment. Mainly because Guardian is on him and Guardian is currently the strongest bandwagon. I think I'll sleep on the options though.

[Kinetic]

EBWOP:

I don't take this EBWOP lightly (I didn't post a small post earlier to respond to Rishi. But I wanted to state two things real quick I forgot:

1) I meant to say mid-way that the four unknowns are Myself, VitR, Guardian, and Xdaamno. One should be lynched, the other vigged, one investigated. By tomorrow we might have a definitive scum team down and out.

and

2)

The reason I am not seeing VitaminR as scum is that CES named him as innocent in his fake claim. I don't think that a scum would point to his partner. It just seems too obvious. Of course, this could be a WIFOM argument.

The reason I didn't think this was mainly because CES hinted toward himself being insane, even tried to set it up with MOS being the "sane" cop. If CES lived, I would half expect him to come back with a "guilty", and then blame it on him being 'insane' when we lynched a townie. We then could lynch VitR, see he was "telling the truth", and he would be set.

Not saying he would do that, just it seemed to me during my re-read of what he might do.

[CrashTextDummie]

Basically, I agree with what has been said, and I agree with the plan. It's just the order of who gets lynched/vigged first I have a different opinion of.

Some thoughts:

Kinetic/Trumpezia

- In my opinion, he's the player who was most linked to Sarcastro. Trumpezia subtly defended Sarc early on, in a way that felt like scum trying to take some pressure off his buddy. I have stated back then that I had trouble seeing his standpoint about "having reservations" coming from a townie, and this is still true. However, Sarc

also

linked himself to Trumpezia, in a rather heavy handed way, and in my opinion, this is a point in favor of Kinetic being pro-town.

As for D2, I have to say Kinetic's play so far is the scummiest to me, he's behaving like I'd expect a scum to behave. I feel he's pushing the idea that Pooky may be a godfather too much at this point and in this situation, from being the first to mention the possibility to putting the investigated innocents in his vote analysis in quotation marks (which is really uncalled for in an analysis like that - Pooky is investigated innocent and whether that's accurate or not has absolutely no bearing on a vote analysis). I'm also disliking the fact that he's put himself as "confirmed townie" in that analysis, which just isn't kosher. I can easily picture him as scum in damage control mode, and think he should be first in line for a lynch/vigging.

Guardian

- I have to say, from a purely metagame standpoint, I read him as town. Particularly the way he openly tried to hammer it home that he's town from the get go ("assume I am town", "lynching me is anti-town", etc.) strikes me as something he wouldn't do as scum. I think he's legitimately frustrated with his lynch-quote and is trying to establish a new meta on him this way, however skewered that approach may be.

He has been consistently and stubbornly wrong about pretty much everything and everyone until now, which is not unheard of from Guardian-town. I particularly wouldn't expect him to defend both his scum-buddies to the extent he's done here, I've known him to be quite a ruthless busser as scum.

Lastly, the fact that he turned on CES as soon as he claimed is significant to me. VitaminR was correct in saying that skepticism is a pro-town trait. Plus, it just seems bizarre timing to start busing your scum-buddy right after he fake-claims after a whole day of openly defending him.

I'd currently place him towards the bottom of our viable scum-candidates.

VitaminR

- I can see him as a busing scumbag (in fact, he's almost the only player I can see as a busing scumbag). While he supported the Sarc wagon from the beginning, he didn't push it much (mostly discussing other things while keeping his vote there). I also feel like he jumped to Guardian too easily.

He's been very supportive of me in particular (both in my views of Sarc and Trumpezia), which could have been buddying. Supportiveness has been his strongest trait in general though, there's a lot more "I agree with"s in his posts than self-formulated opinions, it seems to me.

A point in his favor is the fact that he chose to vote Sarc over ABR and Guardian when the game was in danger of stalling. But that doesn't easy my suspicion on him considerably. Should also be lynched/vigged soon.

Xdaamno

- The hardest to read out of the 4, because his interactions with Coron and Sarc/Ces were minimal. Reading over his posts, nothing in particular strikes me as scummy. He didn't try to push any counter-wagons to help out Sarc, and I see the fact that he speculated on a Coron/Trumpezia pairing as a point in his favor - the way I see it, Coron was pretty much off-radar for the majority of the town at that point.

To summarize, I think Kinetic and VitaminR should be eliminated first.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic/Trumpezia

- In my opinion, he's the player who was most linked to Sarcastro. Trumpezia subtly defended Sarc early on, in a way that felt like scum trying to take some pressure off his buddy. I have stated back then that I had trouble seeing his standpoint about "having reservations" coming from a townie, and this is still true. However, Sarc

also

linked himself to Trumpezia, in a rather heavy handed way, and in my opinion, this is a point in favor of Kinetic being pro-town.

As for D2, I have to say Kinetic's play so far is the scummiest to me, he's behaving like I'd expect a scum to behave. I feel he's pushing the idea that Pooky may be a godfather too much at this point and in this situation, from being the first to mention the possibility to putting the investigated innocents in his vote analysis in quotation marks (which is really uncalled for in an analysis like that - Pooky is investigated innocent and whether that's accurate or not has absolutely no bearing on a vote analysis). I'm also disliking the fact that he's put himself as "confirmed townie" in that analysis, which just isn't kosher. I can easily picture him as scum in damage control mode, and think he should be first in line for a lynch/vigging.

First off, I'm pretty sure that Pooky is not the godfather/scum at this point. He is still in Purple, and will stay that way until he is either killed or somehow proven innocent, but for now being purple is enough.

...

Now we look at Albert's near mislynch. We notice that TWO scum are on this lynch already. I cannot see all three scum latching onto a mislynch. It seems too much honestly.

This is most of the reason why I believe Pooky to be town.

He is on Albert all day 1, and with the other two scum there it would be hard pressed for me to think he's scum. It also gives some (very few) points to Guardian possible Pro-Town.

Bolding added.

Yes, I express thoughts that Pooky

could

be godfather, but I really don't believe it, as is shown in my post. I'm not going to clear him, but as far as I'm concerned he's not even a possible lynch choice. The only way I could possibly see him as one is if we're down to three players. I'm not going to just say "I'm sure Pooky is town", because I am not sure.

I've taken enough PoliSci classes to know never say something for certain unless you mean it, and I've taken enough statistics classes to know that just because something has a low chance doesn't mean it has

no

chance. 10% doesn't mean 1 out of 10 times something happens, it means EVERYtime has a 10% chance. You could have the same situation come up 100 times, and only once could there be a godfather. Then again you could have it come up 100 times and have the godfather be investigated 80 times. Still only a 10% chance.

Unfortunately, I cannot defend the actions that were taken by my predecessor before he disappeared. Its frustrating, I just replaced BM in another game, and no matter what I say people call me scummy because of something I didn't do.

While I agree with most of CTD's analysis, I think he needs to look harder at Guardian and Xdaamno personally. I think he's on the right track with VitR, and I know my own position is far from confirmed, but I think he is needlessly eliminating possible suspects without truly examining them.

[CrashTextDummie]

Of course it's technically possible that Pooky is a godfather, but it's of no real concern today. Yet the fact that you can't even make a voting analysis (which should always be done straight-forward, since it's based entirely on facts) without casting some subtle doubt on his legitimacy (while simultaneously presenting yourself as "confirmed innocent") makes me think that you're already preparing for endgame. The only reason I can see for you to do such a thing is if you're already planning to attack him at some point and want to soften the ground now.

And I'm not "needlessly eliminating possible suspects", I am merely stating which players, in my opinion, need to die first in order to reach a speedy conclusion. If I happen to be wrong, the cop will hopefully shed some light on the other two characters. That last paragraph of yours sounds like you

really

don't want to die today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Kinetic

I actually feel that CTD and VitaminR always voting with what are now confirmed protown players is a point in their favor, because their suspicions were the same as a protown player's suspicions.

Lynch Kinetic
Vig VitaminR
I'll investigate CTD, Xdaamno, or Guardian

I would be willing to lynch/vig any combination of Kinetic, VitaminR, and Xdaamno. I could see them all as scum, but for very different reasons.

[Rishi]

Still want to hear from Xdammo and VitaminR, but I think this game is almost impossible to lose as town.

I'll also note, if there is a doctor in this setup, don't out yourself. And, use your protection on MoS and not me. My kill, I assume, will still go through even if I get killed. But MoS won't be able to tell us his investigation results if he's dead.

One thing we also have to be careful about is that there might be a Godfather in this setup that isn't Pooky. Pooky could be genuinely innocent, but there might be a Godfather elsewhere.

Anyway, I don't want to waste posts if I don't have to, so, unless something changes, I'm going with MoS's plan. I will plan to vig VitaminR tonight, if Kinetic doesn't turn up as scum.

Vote: Kinetic

[Xdaamno]

Yeah, sorry.

Unvote, Vote: Kinetic

I actually feel that CTD and VitaminR always voting with what are now confirmed protown players is a point in their favor, because their suspicions were the same as a protown player's suspicions.

Lynch Kinetic
Vig VitaminR
I'll investigate CTD, Xdaamno, or Guardian

I would be willing to lynch/vig any combination of Kinetic, VitaminR, and Xdaamno. I could see them all as scum, but for very different reasons.

I 100% agree with this post, save the bit where you suggest Vigging/Lynching me. Looking at everyone so far, I can't see much better.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Ouch, I posted too early... -_-

Vote: Kinetic

Uhm, content... hmm...

Xdaamno is very interesting. If you look in the vote counts, he's barely moved at all. I don't think at this time he is a good lynch choice, but for a vig choice he might not be too bad.

Though I hate to use the excuse, read any of my games, it's my playstyle (as scum or town, therefore it's null).

[VitaminR]

Wow. We should be able to wrap this game up nicely pretty quickly.

I agree with the ideas so far. We just need to eliminate the unknowns.

Pretty much, I can guess that your innocent is either VitR or Xdaamno based on your current arguments and what I feel like I've gathered so far, right? (Leaning toward VitR being your investigation, since in my opinion he looks like the most likely scum, but you didn't even mention him.)

This struck me as a bit fishy. On the other hand, though, I suppose there's a chance we don't have a doc and there's not much to lose in MoS revealing his result.

VitaminR

- I can see him as a busing scumbag (in fact, he's almost the only player I can see as a busing scumbag). While he supported the Sarc wagon from the beginning, he didn't push it much (mostly discussing other things while keeping his vote there). I also feel like he jumped to Guardian too easily.

Sarc didn't post at all in that time. That was why.

He's been very supportive of me in particular (both in my views of Sarc and Trumpezia), which could have been buddying. Supportiveness has been his strongest trait in general though, there's a lot more "I agree with"s in his posts than self-formulated opinions, it seems to me.

I tried to give my opinion on every post in this game on Day 1, so that's why they pop up more.

I'm looking at Xdaamno/Kinetic at the moment. I don't see the CTD/Sarcastro argument as distancing and I think Guardian was too close to Sarcastro to have been his scumbuddy.

Lynch Kinetic
Vig VitaminR
I'll investigate CTD, Xdaamno, or Guardian

Although I agree with this plan, I don't think we should be discussing vig/cop choices. It doesn't help town and it gives scum something to plan around.

I don't see a real reason to withhold my vote.

Vote: Kinetic

[Kinetic]

Wow... am I dead already? Before I could even defend myself? Wow.

[CrashTextDummie]

Actually, you're only at 4 votes on my count. Not too late to claim.

[Kinetic]

EBWOP: Ouch, I posted too early... -_-

Vote: Kinetic

Uhm, content... hmm...

Xdaamno is very interesting. If you look in the vote counts, he's barely moved at all. I don't think at this time he is a good lynch choice, but for a vig choice he might not be too bad.

Though I hate to use the excuse, read any of my games, it's my playstyle (as scum or town, therefore it's null).

Wrong. In both 24 Mafia and Newbie 418, both of which I played as scum and you were town, you were COMPLETELY different in those games than in this game. That is why I said it was interesting.

Of course it's technically possible that Pooky is a godfather, but it's of no real concern today. Yet the fact that you can't even make a voting analysis (which should always be done straight-forward, since it's based entirely on facts) without casting some subtle doubt on his legitimacy (while simultaneously presenting yourself as "confirmed innocent") makes me think that you're already preparing for endgame. The only reason I can see for you to do such a thing is if you're already planning to attack him at some point and want to soften the ground now.

And I'm not "needlessly eliminating possible suspects", I am merely stating which players, in my opinion, need to die first in order to reach a speedy conclusion. If I happen to be wrong, the cop will hopefully shed some light on the other two characters. That last paragraph of yours sounds like you really don't want to die today.

Well that is how I do my voting analysis. It is straight forward and based entirely on facts. The game is closed set up and we don't

know

if there is a godfather, but I have only played one game on this site where there

wasn't

a godfather, and that was because in the theme a godfather wouldn't fit. So as far as I'm concerned there is one until proven otherwise, not vice versa.

As for not wanting to die... No I don't want to die. I'm sorry, I always thought suicide was, you know, wrong. I'm not going to self hammer, ever, so why wouldn't I want to live? But i also know that I'm on the list of people that are effectively "unconfirmed" and if I don't die today or tonight, I'm most likely going to be the lynch target tomorrow. Its really annoying to jump into a game where I

know

I'm going to die before I even say anything. But that being said I'm going to attempt to do what I can to help the town, even if no one will even take my posts at face value until AFTER I die.

Anyway, claim... umm I'm not going to lie, I'm Vanilla. Thats why I pretty much figured that I would be dead either today or tomorrow. So yea, hammer me if you will. I would hope you wouldn't but, meh, whatever.

Also,

Unvote:Vote Xdaamno

, I'm pretty sure, based on what I said earlier and how he just tried to play it off on a weak (and in my experience untrue) meta, I'm feeling he very well might be the scum.

[VitaminR]

Yeah, I wouldn't have put on the fourth vote had it been the hammer.

[Guardian]

Also that bit about ABR being a roleblocker makes no sense btw.

Let me try to explain. Everyone but ABR thought ABR was a roleblocker -- especially the scum -- townies

generally

don't fake claim.

If Xdaamno and Coron were the last two scum, and thought ABR had roleblocked Xdaamno night one, it would make sense for Coron to send in a kill and kill ABR to prevent Xdaamno from being detrimentally roleblocked in the future.

ABR was not

in fact

a roleblocker, but the scum didn't know this.

---

As for our plan, I agree with the current general sentiment; we need to focus on the likely targets, at least for today and tonight. I particularly agree with CTD's analysis and find it pro-town and more or less making sense.

I particularly think CTD is pro-town -- like I said when Rishi accurately meta-gamed me earlier, I don't think scum would want to speak up about that.


Lynch Kinetic vig VitaminR seems like and OK plan; Kinetic seemed insincere to me in some of his last few posts, especially the one where he said:

While I agree with most of CTD's analysis, I think he needs to look harder at Guardian and Xdaamno personally. I think he's on the right track with VitR, and I know my own position is far from confirmed, but I think he is needlessly eliminating possible suspects without truly examining them.

Basically, that boils down to "so, let's get rid of the likely suspects -- and get rid of them in order starting with anyone but me".

That being said, his last two posts in reaction to being lynch -1 seem sincere... That thing I just quoted really irks me though.



I agree with MoS's plan of lynch Kinetic Vig VitaminR inspect *someone*.




I am pretty much willing to hammer Kinetic, but I wonder if we are being short sighted. We seem to be in a great position; but what if Kinetic and VitaminR turn up to be town, and one of our likely innocents is dead tomorrow?

We do want to end the day soon, but I want to let anyone who might oppose me hammering get a day or two to post their objection, especially Kinetic.

Basically, my worry is "What happens if, worst case scenario, Kinetic and VitaminR are town, and someone else dies too?"

Are we

sure

that the Kinetic-VitaminR plan is our plan?

I am leaning yes on this, but I would like some discussion.


Many players I think are pro-town are voting Kinetic, but I haven't really seen a case on him, and other than his recent insincere play that role hasn't been making me that suspicious.

Basically, I am being a bit paranoid, and I am not hammering because I don't want to cut off discussion if others have something to say//also think we should wait a bit.


That being said, the likelihood that at

least

three of the four players on Kinetic are town and the good logic behind our plan makes me almost willing to vote him.

hos: Kinetic

.

[Kinetic]

Lynch Kinetic vig VitaminR seems like and OK plan; Kinetic seemed insincere to me in some of his last few posts, especially the one where he said:

While I agree with most of CTD's analysis, I think he needs to look harder at Guardian and Xdaamno personally. I think he's on the right track with VitR, and I know my own position is far from confirmed, but I think he is needlessly eliminating possible suspects without truly examining them.

Basically, that boils down to "so, let's get rid of the likely suspects -- and get rid of them in order starting with anyone but me".

That being said, his last two posts in reaction to being lynch -1 seem sincere... That thing I just quoted really irks me though.

Thats some OMGUSy suspicion there Guardian. You picked out the place where I thought you might be scum, and that was what you found suspicious? You stated earlier that even YOU think you look suspicious since the people you were linking yourself with were all scum. Its ok for everyone else to point that way, but when I do it its scummy? I think you're reacting to your "Kinetic enters games and lynches me" meta against me.

I agree with MoS's plan of lynch Kinetic Vig VitaminR inspect *someone*.

Well let me ask you this. Since you're one of the 4 up at the plate, how would you feel if you were the lynch or vig? I'm thinking you would be a little more against the plan. But anything where you survive seems like good for you.

I am pretty much willing to hammer Kinetic, but I wonder if we are being short sighted. We seem to be in a great position; but what if Kinetic and VitaminR turn up to be town, and one of our likely innocents is dead tomorrow?

We do want to end the day soon, but I want to let anyone who might oppose me hammering get a day or two to post their objection, especially Kinetic.

Basically, my worry is "What happens if, worst case scenario, Kinetic and VitaminR are town, and someone else dies too?"

This all sounds very scummy. Sounds like you're setting up for the next day after both of us turn up town...

But if that happens then its lynch Guardian and vig Xdaamno, or some combination there of that ends with those two people dead.

Are we

sure

that the Kinetic-VitaminR plan is our plan?

I am leaning yes on this, but I would like some discussion.

You mean you would like to pass the blame to someone else if you hammer, right?

Many players I think are pro-town are voting Kinetic, but I haven't really seen a case on him, and other than his recent insincere play that role hasn't been making me that suspicious.

Basically, I am being a bit paranoid, and I am not hammering because I don't want to cut off discussion if others have something to say//also think we should wait a bit.

That being said, the likelihood that at

least

three of the four players on Kinetic are town and the good logic behind our plan makes me almost willing to vote him.

hos: Kinetic

.

Guardian. BASIC MATH means that no matter how many votes I have on me, if X = Number of votes, then if we assume there is one scum left then X - 1 = the minimum number of townies. Until about 24 hours ago at least 2 townies were voting you. Does that make you more likely to be scum? Maybe, but since there were three votes on you it means that only one scum could possibly be on you.

Unvote

Originally I thought Guardian might just be a victim of circumstance with all the scum hanging around him... but after this post I'm going to have to re-read him and see if I might have misread.

[Guardian]

Lynch Kinetic vig VitaminR seems like and OK plan; Kinetic seemed insincere to me in some of his last few posts, especially the one where he said:

While I agree with most of CTD's analysis, I think he needs to look harder at Guardian and Xdaamno personally. I think he's on the right track with VitR, and I know my own position is far from confirmed, but I think he is needlessly eliminating possible suspects without truly examining them.

Basically, that boils down to "so, let's get rid of the likely suspects -- and get rid of them in order starting with anyone but me".

That being said, his last two posts in reaction to being lynch -1 seem sincere... That thing I just quoted really irks me though.

Thats some OMGUSy suspicion there Guardian. You picked out the place where I thought you might be scum, and that was what you found suspicious?

Not at all. I picked out the place where you were like "well, I am happy you find VitaminR scummy, but how about you look at Guardian and Xdaamno too and anyone but me?"

You stated earlier that even YOU think you look suspicious since the people you were linking yourself with were all scum. Its ok for everyone else to point that way, but when I do it its scummy?

Because your phraseology makes it look like blatant self preservation and misdirection.

I think you're reacting to your "Kinetic enters games and lynches me" meta against me.

I think there is a chance you are town, but you are annoying as anything. I decide to

not

hammer you, and you spend 4/5 paragraphs attacking me.

I agree with MoS's plan of lynch Kinetic Vig VitaminR inspect *someone*.

Well let me ask you this. Since you're one of the 4 up at the plate, how would you feel if you were the lynch or vig?

I'd ask for a case on me, and explain why others are better choices.

Oh wait, I *did* that.

I'm thinking you would be a little more against the plan. But anything where you survive seems like good for you.

No, the plan is sound. What matters is selecting the two right people. I think it probably involves you, but I wonder if Xdaamno would be a better vig than VitaminR.

I am pretty much willing to hammer Kinetic, but I wonder if we are being short sighted. We seem to be in a great position; but what if Kinetic and VitaminR turn up to be town, and one of our likely innocents is dead tomorrow?

We do want to end the day soon, but I want to let anyone who might oppose me hammering get a day or two to post their objection, especially Kinetic.

Basically, my worry is "What happens if, worst case scenario, Kinetic and VitaminR are town, and someone else dies too?"

This all sounds very scummy. Sounds like you're setting up for the next day after both of us turn up town...

If by "setting up for the next day" you mean "planning ahead for the worst case scenario" -- oh wait, that isn't what you mean, you're trying to twist my words and make me look scummy.

But if that happens then its lynch Guardian and vig Xdaamno, or some combination there of that ends with those two people dead.

Should it really be that? Is Pooky 100% clear? Is CTD?

Are we

sure

that the Kinetic-VitaminR plan is our plan?

I am leaning yes on this, but I would like some discussion.

You mean you would like to pass the blame to someone else if you hammer, right?

I mean I'd rather lynch scum. How the hell does my indecision = passing blame? This would be a great opportunity for me to not lose as town, and I'd rather not throw it away off of rash decisions.

Many players I think are pro-town are voting Kinetic, but I haven't really seen a case on him, and other than his recent insincere play that role hasn't been making me that suspicious.

Basically, I am being a bit paranoid, and I am not hammering because I don't want to cut off discussion if others have something to say//also think we should wait a bit.

That being said, the likelihood that at

least

three of the four players on Kinetic are town and the good logic behind our plan makes me almost willing to vote him.

hos: Kinetic

.

Guardian. BASIC MATH means that no matter how many votes I have on me, if X = Number of votes, then if we assume there is one scum left then X - 1 = the minimum number of townies. Until about 24 hours ago at least 2 townies were voting you. Does that make you more likely to be scum? Maybe, but since there were three votes on you it means that only one scum could possibly be on you.

OK.

Unvote

Originally I thought Guardian might just be a victim of circumstance with all the scum hanging around him... but after this post I'm going to have to re-read him and see if I might have misread.

Now who's setting other people up?

I try and give you a chance to defend yourself, and in some twisted way that makes you decide to attack me? It's like anti-OMGUS -- "Guardian, you didn't hammer me -- therefore you are suspicious."

That doesn't make any sense to me.

Honestly, I would not be all that disappointed if you, me, Xdaamno, and VitaminR are dealt away with in order, as that most probably will lead to a victory.


Honestly, that BS about me trying to abdicate responsibility really makes me want to hammer you right now.

I don't think I've ever hammered before...

unvote

I had "vote Kinetic" in there on preview. I really, really want to right now, but objectively I think we should discuss for a few more days. I'd like to hear more what Xdaamno thinks, specifically.


Kinetic, attacking the one person defending you doesn't even make sense. I'm fine with accepting responsibility for lynching you tomorrow if we do lynch you and that's wrong.

You've been very scummy and antagonistic, and if I am wrong and you're town, I am wrong for the right reasons.


I liked your thoughts on Xdaamno -- now all of a sudden when I express suspicion of you, you decide to unvote him and start a re-read?

[Kinetic]

Lynch Kinetic vig VitaminR seems like and OK plan; Kinetic seemed insincere to me in some of his last few posts, especially the one where he said:

While I agree with most of CTD's analysis, I think he needs to look harder at Guardian and Xdaamno personally. I think he's on the right track with VitR, and I know my own position is far from confirmed, but I think he is needlessly eliminating possible suspects without truly examining them.

Basically, that boils down to "so, let's get rid of the likely suspects -- and get rid of them in order starting with anyone but me".

That being said, his last two posts in reaction to being lynch -1 seem sincere... That thing I just quoted really irks me though.

Thats some OMGUSy suspicion there Guardian. You picked out the place where I thought you might be scum, and that was what you found suspicious?

Not at all. I picked out the place where you were like "well, I am happy you find VitaminR scummy, but how about you look at Guardian and Xdaamno too and anyone but me?"

It seemed like he was preemptively letting you two off the hook. Its not that I didn't understand his suspicions of me so much as I didn't understand him not having a tougher stance on you two.

You stated earlier that even YOU think you look suspicious since the people you were linking yourself with were all scum. Its ok for everyone else to point that way, but when I do it its scummy?

Because your phraseology makes it look like blatant self preservation and misdirection.

It has nothing to do with how I phrased it. It has everything to do with the fact that I'm the lynch target as of now and thus you are looking at me from a different perspective.

I think you're reacting to your "Kinetic enters games and lynches me" meta against me.

I think there is a chance you are town, but you are annoying as anything. I decide to

not

hammer you, and you spend 4/5 paragraphs attacking me.

*wink* You'll see what I was doing with you at the end of this post.

I agree with MoS's plan of lynch Kinetic Vig VitaminR inspect *someone*.

Well let me ask you this. Since you're one of the 4 up at the plate, how would you feel if you were the lynch or vig?

I'd ask for a case on me, and explain why others are better choices.

Oh wait, I *did* that.

The case on you is that you were basically buddying up with the scum, not always on purpose, and your moves on day 1 looked very scummy.

But the main reason, and this is the same for me, is that you don't have a good defensible position right now. You were on the wrong wagons all day, and then you switched on CES pretty much only when it was certain beyond most reasonable doubt that he was scum.

I'm thinking you would be a little more against the plan. But anything where you survive seems like good for you.

No, the plan is sound. What matters is selecting the two right people. I think it probably involves you, but I wonder if Xdaamno would be a better vig than VitaminR.

I half think you're just happy that in a game that involves the two of us I'm on the lynch block and not you . I think if someone else was lynched and I was vigged you wouldn't like it .

I am pretty much willing to hammer Kinetic, but I wonder if we are being short sighted. We seem to be in a great position; but what if Kinetic and VitaminR turn up to be town, and one of our likely innocents is dead tomorrow?

We do want to end the day soon, but I want to let anyone who might oppose me hammering get a day or two to post their objection, especially Kinetic.

Basically, my worry is "What happens if, worst case scenario, Kinetic and VitaminR are town, and someone else dies too?"

This all sounds very scummy. Sounds like you're setting up for the next day after both of us turn up town...

If by "setting up for the next day" you mean "planning ahead for the worst case scenario" -- oh wait, that isn't what you mean, you're trying to twist my words and make me look scummy.

No, I'm not twisting your words. Your words are you own. I was just interpreting them.

OK, I was twisting them a bit, but I needed a little more information from you.

But if that happens then its lynch Guardian and vig Xdaamno, or some combination there of that ends with those two people dead.

Should it really be that? Is Pooky 100% clear? Is CTD?

Glad I'm not the only person that is not afraid to talk about those things. Apparently questioning Pooky as possible is scum talk.

Are we

sure

that the Kinetic-VitaminR plan is our plan?

I am leaning yes on this, but I would like some discussion.

You mean you would like to pass the blame to someone else if you hammer, right?

I mean I'd rather lynch scum. How the hell does my indecision = passing blame? This would be a great opportunity for me to not lose as town, and I'd rather not throw it away off of rash decisions.

Scroll down more. Nothing really to add here.

Many players I think are pro-town are voting Kinetic, but I haven't really seen a case on him, and other than his recent insincere play that role hasn't been making me that suspicious.

Basically, I am being a bit paranoid, and I am not hammering because I don't want to cut off discussion if others have something to say//also think we should wait a bit.

That being said, the likelihood that at

least

three of the four players on Kinetic are town and the good logic behind our plan makes me almost willing to vote him.

hos: Kinetic

.

Guardian. BASIC MATH means that no matter how many votes I have on me, if X = Number of votes, then if we assume there is one scum left then X - 1 = the minimum number of townies. Until about 24 hours ago at least 2 townies were voting you. Does that make you more likely to be scum? Maybe, but since there were three votes on you it means that only one scum could possibly be on you.

OK.

Glad you agree with Algebra. I'll do something in Calc next time and see if you can follow. It should be fun.

Unvote

Originally I thought Guardian might just be a victim of circumstance with all the scum hanging around him... but after this post I'm going to have to re-read him and see if I might have misread.

Now who's setting other people up?

I try and give you a chance to defend yourself, and in some twisted way that makes you decide to attack me? It's like anti-OMGUS -- "Guardian, you didn't hammer me -- therefore you are suspicious."

That doesn't make any sense to me.

It kind of does actually. If you're scum trying to hide, after having a lot of suspicion on you day 1, trying to stay off the inevitable mislynch on day 2 is just good play.

Honestly, I would not be all that disappointed if you, me, Xdaamno, and VitaminR are dealt away with in order, as that most probably will lead to a victory.


Honestly, that BS about me trying to abdicate responsibility really makes me want to hammer you right now.

I don't think I've ever hammered before...

unvote

Good job you waited. You'll be rewarded at the end.

I had "vote Kinetic" in there on preview. I really, really want to right now, but objectively I think we should discuss for a few more days. I'd like to hear more what Xdaamno thinks, specifically.

Ah, you've hit the nail on the head now.

Kinetic, attacking the one person defending you doesn't even make sense. I'm fine with accepting responsibility for lynching you tomorrow if we do lynch you and that's wrong.

It does if that person is you.

You've been very scummy and antagonistic, and if I am wrong and you're town, I am wrong for the right reasons.


I liked your thoughts on Xdaamno -- now all of a sudden when I express suspicion of you, you decide to unvote him and start a re-read?

I really don't think I've been scummy since I've entered the game. Antagonistic... maybe, but I think my "scummy-ness" is more of a factor of the position of which I entered the game and not anything else.

Also,

Unvote

.

Right now Guardian, I am in a very unique position. I'm the sword of the town. Because all of my suspicions will be re-evaluated after I'm lynched. I'm being given a free license to be scummy to achieve rises out of players and evaluate them before I die. And who better then to stab with that sword but you Guardian? I know you best, and I know how to tell when you're town. I'm pretty sure you are now, but I needed to be sure before I said anything.

And the easiest way to be sure is to make you angry at me and see what you say. Most of what you said was what I was hoping for. Even some of the attacks. lol.

Vote:Xdaamno

Xdaamno/VitR is the right play in my opinion. The fact that they both moved so fast onto me was more than suspicious. One of them is the last scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ill hammer kinetic if vitR claims since he is being vigged and I want to give him a chance to prevent the vig.

[VitaminR]

I am but a Commoner. Not sure you should hammer if others still want discussion, though.

[Guardian]

vote: Xdaamno

.

I don't think Kinetic should be lynched or vigged, I think it is going to be wrong. Kinetic, I hate you, but good play .

I'd explain why more but I am going to bed and wanted to get this out there before someone hammers.