SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[Varsoon]

"This is the only pleasure in my life."

-Stripclub Patron,

Nelson

VOTECOUNT 1.20

Skybird (6):

Fluminator, Lowkey, Itlepip, Albert B. Rampage, Sensei, Gale Wing Srock

Itlepip (5):

Drunken Pirates, DrippingGoofball, Wickedestjr, DiamondSentinel, Skybird

DiamondSentinel (2):

CooLDoG, MaxwellPuckett

Rylai and Lina (1):

Klingoncelt

DrippingGoofball (1):

ZZZX

Drixx (1):

The Cool Cucumbers

Sensei (1):

BIT

Klingoncelt (1):

Yosarian2

Not Voting (3):

Drixx, Rylai and Lina, ErrantParabola

With 20 Alive, it takes 11 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-22 14:10:00)

The Main Character is

Drixx

Spoiler: MC Vote

Albert B. Rampage (8):

Rylai and Lina, Albert B. Rampage, Yosarian2, DrippingGoofball, Fluminator, Wickedestjr, The Cool Cucumbers, Gale Wing Srock

Drixx (3):

Lowkey, Drixx, Diamond Sentinel

Lowkey (2):

Errantparabola, MaxwellPuckett

Wickedestjr (1):

Itlepip

Yosarian2 (1):

CooLDoG

Drunken Pirates (1):

Klingoncelt

ZZZX (1):

ZZZX

@MOD there won't be any alignment changes without notification in the thread? Or there can be at all?

This game is advertised non-bastard. There are not any mid-game alignment changes.

[Drunken Pirates]

@Anyone who's not voting Albert for MC

We really need to find another choice. Some who we'd rather have as MC. Drixx seems like a decent choice to me, but I could be wrong. Who do you guys like?

I agree we need to find some1 else as long as abr is insisting that kewldog be in the party for no good reason.

these are the players who's actions do not match up with their words:

abr
kewldog
flum
klingoncelt

why the fuck are these pple getting ignored except for klingon. titus is townreading klingon god knows why I am willing to give her a chance plus the wishy washy way abr is going about his suspicions on her make me think if she is scum there is the possibility of abr intending to bus her at some point but I might reading too much into it all I know is that I do not trust abr.

[Yosarian2]

yoyo it is an outdated scumtell from like 2012. I have wondered about multiball several times on d1 in different games, I have entertained that it is multiball too cos thinks titus was obsessing over that too and the game does have that feel but I told her to NOT GO THERE YET UNTIL D2 cos the other explanation is that pple are playing to their sparking ability and to the mechanic of the game and not mafia.

Hey, i use scumtells from 2001. I don't care if people think they're outdated; in fact scumtells work well after everyone else has forgotten about them.

Just keep in mind that just because something is a scumtell, doesn't mean town don't do it. Just that scum do it a little more.

So a scumtell isn't a huge deal. At best it raises the odds of someone being scum by 5% or so. It's worth noting, especally on day 1 when you don't have much to go on, but if Klingon starts acting town otherwise, I'm not going to obsess about it.

I am not sus of you cos of any vote or unvote you might have had I mean made that up I am getting sus of you cos you are signing abr's bullshit and ignoring me when I say that with the info we have, we know for a fact that scum have every motivation to want to be in that party

Sure, i believe that. But I just don't think Albert is scum. And if anything i think his claim makes that even less likely.

he has already lied, he is making promises he has no intention of keeping I mean all he is doing is sucking up to pple and schmoozing.

I don't actually think he has lied. And if he is making promises he can't keep then we'll catch him on that later. This is one of those "ok let's give him enough rope to hang himself and see what he does with it" situations.

On a side note, I actually have seen ABR-town campaign like this to be elected to something on day 1 before in at least one game, so that part doesn't bother me. Although that's also like 10 year old meta so take it with a grain of salt.

I need to understand why you are not trusting me on this. I know you know that I am town and I think you are too! but I really need your help in understanding this. plz talk to me.

I do think you are town, yeah. And I do trust you. But I think you might be a little, to use your phrase, "emotionally compromised" when it comes to ABR.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Okay, a shitload was said, skybird/itlepip is exactly what I expected given R&L forced me to pay attention to something and identify that Skybird wasn't claiming asellus and given I'm currently playing blues story in saga frontier. :p but...I'm not gonna worry about that because one thing is irritating the hell out of me.

DP: your understanding of the MC protection and how it is bypassed is wrong. I don't care about anything else in your role, but the games setup clearly states that the MC may ONLY die if targeted by two members of his party, one of whom uses a NON FACTIONAL killing ability. Shit is basic yo, I don't understand how you keep getting it wrong.

Also, umm, I think Yosarian pretty much told you exactly how the mechanic works, and you told him he was wrong, so, well, I have to assume you are misunderstanding something. Now if....by some miracle...you are NOT misunderstanding, but still think you suggestion is right, keep reading.

My other points remain: ABRs play only matches titus' suggested plan if they want to kill someone who is protected N2, and have a non-factional kill, BUT, the need for being mc/in the party only applies if their non-factional kill sint a strongman, since a strongman could be assumed to be lethal in almost all situations.

So, even in the improbable event that those things are all true....WHY does scum!ABR put himself so far out there just to get control of this party? Why does scum!ABR make an unsolicited claim and draw unnecessary suspicion to himself? I mean, maybe he's scum, but I can't believe you guys seriously believe he's going out on a fucking limb here in order to....get a guaranteed kill on N2.

Like, seriously? THAT'S the payoff?


TL;DR: DP's thoughts about ABR's plan are dumb and wrong, regardless of what their role is, because the mechanics SIMPLY DO NOT WORK in the fashion they seem to feel they do, and even if they do realize how the mechanics work and are just expressing it poorly, it's a shitload of work and risk, especially for scum!abr, with very little gain.

-Cerb

[Shiro]

Okay, a shitload was said, skybird/itlepip is exactly what I expected given R&L forced me to pay attention to something and identify that Skybird wasn't claiming asellus and given I'm currently playing blues story in saga frontier. :p

Yea I screwed up with my speculation :/

Ooc: I got the game but have yet to start playing it cause I haven't found time yet Dx

|Lina

[Drunken Pirates]

@TCC - I am not wrong. Like at all. I could go round and round with you on this but it would be anti-town to do so.

The word non factional is right. Non factional killing abilities include janitors as well along with other things. Any kill that is not specific the generic faction kill is specific enough.

You seem to think I am obsessed with the MC. I am not. Let me provide other examples.

Scum janitor RaL and Place a watcher on her. This allows them to murder her, get the names of her conftown, bypass protection and claim doctor as well.

Scum roleblock and murder an otherwise unmurderable townie with a really fucking cool role.

Scum janitor a townie and track them allowing for fake claims.

I could go on with the parade of horribles without focusing on the MC like at all.

Those sound like reasonable payoffs to you?

Now, I know we've had our conflict in the past Cerb but I very well wasn't wrong in Suidoken once I had enough information to have pieces on the board to know where they go. This is a game of move and countermove.

I am asking you to trust in my wisdom that no one can outmaneuver Titus using game theory when I have information until we are proven to be wrong and vote itlepip.

~Titus

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If the party ever groups up on a target (two or more party members target the same player during the same day or night phase) then the abilities that they use on that player will always affect that player without fail--this does not extend to factional abilities.

This is the ONLY way the Main Character can die aside from being lynched in LYLO.

What is the 'Main Character'?
The Main Character, referred to as the 'MC' from here on out, is a temporary modifier that a player can gain. The MC is immune to ALL killing actions (including strongman, treestump, etc.) and may not be lynched (except for in LYLO). The identity of the MC will be public at all times, as will the identity of his chosen Party.

-How does a MC die?

The MC can

only

be killed via two or more players on the party targeting the MC (one of these players must submit a killing action)

. When multiple Party Members submit actions on the same target, all of their actions see 'upgraded priority' and will resolve before any other actions in NAR. Actions with this 'upgraded priority' still follow their own NAR structure, so if one Party member kills the MC and another doctor-protects the MC, the doc shot will still protect from the kill.

This does not extend to factional abilities/kills

. This is the ONLY way the Main Character can die aside from being lynched in LYLO.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Anyways, none of the scenarios you listed ARE THINGS THAT REQUIRE THE EMPOWERMENT OF BEING PART OF THE PARTY. Well, except for murdering the unmurderable.

Also, we haven't even had any conflicts Titus. I <3 you and you're one of my favorites.

-Cerb

[Yosarian2]

I mean, there are lots of other good reasons for not making scum MC like the fact he can then adventure with his buddies and give them all powers (depending on how much risk the scum is willing to take).

Make a case that ABR is scum based on something other then his roleclaim (which I don't have a problem with) and if you convince me that he might be, I'll change my MC vote.

[Drunken Pirates]

Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224

[Drunken Pirates]

Anyways, none of the scenarios you listed ARE THINGS THAT REQUIRE THE EMPOWERMENT OF BEING PART OF THE PARTY. Well, except for murdering the unmurderable.

Also, we haven't even had any conflicts Titus. I <3 you and you're one of my favorites.

-Cerb

Yes they are. Doctors roleblockers and other things can fuck with things. If scum are in the party the actions are guaranteed to go through, bypassing doctors, bulletproofs, roleblockers, jail keepers etc.

We have intellectual conflict. I <3 you to.

~Titus

[Yosarian2]

[quote]Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224[\quote]


That sounds like more a confusion about mechanics then a lie.

Also, there were times he told someone "sure I'll take ypu on an aventure if you vote for me" but then changed his mind later. That actually seems more pro-town then keeping all promises even if the situation changes. It's a little sleezy in the politican sense of the word but i dont think it's scummy.

[Yosarian2]

Yes they are. Doctors roleblockers and other things can fuck with things. If scum are in the party the actions are guaranteed to go through, bypassing doctors, bulletproofs, roleblockers, jail keepers etc.

We have intellectual conflict. I <3 you to.

~Titus

Sure, if the scum group has a member with a second kill in addition to the factional kill, and the scum knows who is likely to be doc protected or whatever on night 2.

That's not that likely a scenrio though.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, there are lots of other good reasons for not making scum MC like the fact he can then adventure with his buddies and give them all powers (depending on how much risk the scum is willing to take).

Make a case that ABR is scum based on something other then his roleclaim (which I don't have a problem with) and if you convince me that he might be, I'll change my MC vote.

I absolutely agree. I just think the argument that he's trying to get two scum on the team in order to multitarget and get guaranteed kills and that's why the composition always looks so weird (which, btw, is a different conversation, cause wtf do you mean by weird???)is both based on an incorrect interpretation of the mechanicsx and stupid even if it were based on the correct interpretation.

Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224

Yes I am very much curious about why ABR claimed the first person on the chosen MCs party list would become MC in the event of their death.

-Cerb

Pedit: of course, but that isn't what you originally said. I'm in bed and lazy Titus, don't make me go iso you, but in pretty damn sure you said you thought he wanted multiple scum in the party to kill people, NOT to guarantee other combinations of powers work well.

[Drunken Pirates]

I mean, there are lots of other good reasons for not making scum MC like the fact he can then adventure with his buddies and give them all powers (depending on how much risk the scum is willing to take).

Make a case that ABR is scum based on something other then his roleclaim (which I don't have a problem with) and if you convince me that he might be, I'll change my MC vote.

I absolutely agree. I just think the argument that he's trying to get two scum on the team in order to multitarget and get guaranteed kills and that's why the composition always looks so weird (which, btw, is a different conversation, cause wtf do you mean by weird???)is both based on an incorrect interpretation of the mechanicsx and stupid even if it were based on the correct interpretation.

Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224

Yes I am very much curious about why ABR claimed the first person on the chosen MCs party list would become MC in the event of their death.

-Cerb

Pedit: of course, but that isn't what you originally said. I'm in bed and lazy Titus, don't make me go iso you, but in pretty damn sure you said you thought he wanted multiple scum in the party to kill people, NOT to guarantee other combinations of powers work well.

Let's suppose I did, because I like revealing as much of the scumplan as possible.

I think it's pretty damn obvious RaL is unmurderable and every protective role and their brother is going there tonight.

ABR says that RaL should not claim conftowns and tell them to a trusted hood. Yet he makes no attempt to include RaL in his party, even after kicking me off. He can't then very well claim that his non inclusion is an attempt to work with me, because he's now taking the position we can't work together.

Having this conversation is causing me to post more. So I am going to ask you to trust me again. I should be limiting my posting so that when eventually either a) Mollie and I can chain lynch the scumteam or b) I nail their asses to the wall in Titus fashion.

Trust me until I am wrong if you townread us.

~Titus

[Fluminator]

@Anyone who's not voting Albert for MC

We really need to find another choice. Some who we'd rather have as MC. Drixx seems like a decent choice to me, but I could be wrong. Who do you guys like?

I agree we need to find some1 else as long as abr is insisting that kewldog be in the party for no good reason.

these are the players who's actions do not match up with their words:

abr
kewldog
flum
klingoncelt.

Can you give examples on each four?

@Titus, your arrogance is starting to look a little fake. You are really annoying this game.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yosarian and Cerberus-hydra, can you tell me why you're voting Albert for MC? If I remember correctly, you haven't given any decent reason on that.

Also, anyone not voting Albert for MC, I'd

highly

suggest that you vote Drixx for MC. He's likely town (since scum is unlikely first MC), so he'd be a smart choice for MC.

[Drunken Pirates]

Okay, a shitload was said, skybird/itlepip is exactly what I expected given R&L forced me to pay attention to something and identify that Skybird wasn't claiming asellus and given I'm currently playing blues story in saga frontier. :p but...I'm not gonna worry about that because one thing is irritating the hell out of me.

DP: your understanding of the MC protection and how it is bypassed is wrong. I don't care about anything else in your role, but the games setup clearly states that the MC may ONLY die if targeted by two members of his party, one of whom uses a NON FACTIONAL killing ability. Shit is basic yo, I don't understand how you keep getting it wrong.

Also, umm, I think Yosarian pretty much told you exactly how the mechanic works, and you told him he was wrong, so, well, I have to assume you are misunderstanding something. Now if....by some miracle...you are NOT misunderstanding, but still think you suggestion is right, keep reading.

My other points remain: ABRs play only matches titus' suggested plan if they want to kill someone who is protected N2, and have a non-factional kill, BUT, the need for being mc/in the party only applies if their non-factional kill sint a strongman, since a strongman could be assumed to be lethal in almost all situations.

So, even in the improbable event that those things are all true....WHY does scum!ABR put himself so far out there just to get control of this party? Why does scum!ABR make an unsolicited claim and draw unnecessary suspicion to himself? I mean, maybe he's scum, but I can't believe you guys seriously believe he's going out on a fucking limb here in order to....get a guaranteed kill on N2.

Like, seriously? THAT'S the payoff?


TL;DR: DP's thoughts about ABR's plan are dumb and wrong, regardless of what their role is, because the mechanics SIMPLY DO NOT WORK in the fashion they seem to feel they do, and even if they do realize how the mechanics work and are just expressing it poorly, it's a shitload of work and risk, especially for scum!abr, with very little gain.

-Cerb

okay I am not gonna talk to you if you are gonna be a jerk.

I thought the exact same thing that you guys thought and argued with titus over it so we asked for clarification. you are simply gonna have to accept the fact we know more than you. period fucking end of story. scum will want their team in the party.

@ yoyo

this isn't coming from me being emotionally compromised. I was giving abr a pass, titus was the who was all over him. I used the exact same arguments that are using. then a piece of the puzzle fell into place. and it isn't that he is campaigning it is how he is going about it. he told diamond that he wld put diamond in the party if diamond voted him and then he didn't despite diamond being a strong town read. stop treating me like I am incapable of being objective cos I can be. I once got in the nastiest bloodiest fight I have ever got into, I mean he was gonna be in my area down from canada and attending a paleontology conference and we had plans to meet up and him and his ta who I also knew and had played mafia with and we cancelled the plans cos we were so mad at each other. he was the doc and I had an inventor's protect and we protected each other despite being mad and scum missed 2 nks.

it was always drilled into my head by both mentors, wc first. I may turn a stark foaming at the mouth ragey person mad at some1 but if they are important to my wc I will do what i can to help/protect them.

titus is like "abr is 100% scum" and I am like "no he isn't" but I am defo seeing some markers here given what I know.

the problem that I am having with abr is his insistence that kewldog be on the team when kewldog stalled a lynch on some1 he was scumreading, is only addressing titus when I have played with kewldog before and it seems he is avoiding interaction.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, there are lots of other good reasons for not making scum MC like the fact he can then adventure with his buddies and give them all powers (depending on how much risk the scum is willing to take).

Make a case that ABR is scum based on something other then his roleclaim (which I don't have a problem with) and if you convince me that he might be, I'll change my MC vote.

I absolutely agree. I just think the argument that he's trying to get two scum on the team in order to multitarget and get guaranteed kills and that's why the composition always looks so weird (which, btw, is a different conversation, cause wtf do you mean by weird???)is both based on an incorrect interpretation of the mechanicsx and stupid even if it were based on the correct interpretation.

Oh ABR lied. Let's not count the broken promises to people to be in the party. 1957 ABR states any MC can choose the backup when they die if elected by town. The mod confirmed that to be a lie in 2224

Yes I am very much curious about why ABR claimed the first person on the chosen MCs party list would become MC in the event of their death.

-Cerb

Pedit: of course, but that isn't what you originally said. I'm in bed and lazy Titus, don't make me go iso you, but in pretty damn sure you said you thought he wanted multiple scum in the party to kill people, NOT to guarantee other combinations of powers work well.

Let's suppose I did, because I like revealing as much of the scumplan as possible.

I think it's pretty damn obvious RaL is unmurderable and every protective role and their brother is going there tonight.

ABR says that RaL should not claim conftowns and tell them to a trusted hood. Yet he makes no attempt to include RaL in his party, even after kicking me off. He can't then very well claim that his non inclusion is an attempt to work with me, because he's now taking the position we can't work together.

Having this conversation is causing me to post more. So I am going to ask you to trust me again. I should be limiting my posting so that when eventually either a) Mollie and I can chain lynch the scumteam or b) I nail their asses to the wall in Titus fashion.

Trust me until I am wrong if you townread us.

~Titus

The point of R&L being unmurderable tonight is irrelevant to the conversation? ABR won't have MC until D2, his party won't have the opportunity to use "super adventuring party multi-targeting" techniques until N2, so R&L's vulnerability to such, if you were right, wouldn't be an issue until then. N2. Not N1. N2.

And, honestly, this has NOTHING to do with trust, and everything to do with me telling you that the mechanics of the game, as expressed to everyone, say you were wrong in your original suggestion for what ABR's plan is.

Yosarian and Cerberus-hydra, can you tell me why you're voting Albert for MC? If I remember correctly, you haven't given any decent reason on that.

Also, anyone not voting Albert for MC, I'd

highly

suggest that you vote Drixx for MC. He's likely town (since scum is unlikely first MC), so he'd be a smart choice for MC.

IDK why wgeurts voted for ABR originally, he made that vote before he had fully caught up. I don't care enough to change it, because it doesn't matter until the moment of lynch, which we are far from. I do know that I pointed out the contradictions of ABR to wgeurts, and he was of yosarians opinion, that basically it's fine, if ABR turns out to be lying scum he'll be dead on D3/D4 after he fails to produce scum for us.

Okay, a shitload was said, skybird/itlepip is exactly what I expected given R&L forced me to pay attention to something and identify that Skybird wasn't claiming asellus and given I'm currently playing blues story in saga frontier. :p but...I'm not gonna worry about that because one thing is irritating the hell out of me.

DP: your understanding of the MC protection and how it is bypassed is wrong. I don't care about anything else in your role, but the games setup clearly states that the MC may ONLY die if targeted by two members of his party, one of whom uses a NON FACTIONAL killing ability. Shit is basic yo, I don't understand how you keep getting it wrong.

Also, umm, I think Yosarian pretty much told you exactly how the mechanic works, and you told him he was wrong, so, well, I have to assume you are misunderstanding something. Now if....by some miracle...you are NOT misunderstanding, but still think you suggestion is right, keep reading.

My other points remain: ABRs play only matches titus' suggested plan if they want to kill someone who is protected N2, and have a non-factional kill, BUT, the need for being mc/in the party only applies if their non-factional kill sint a strongman, since a strongman could be assumed to be lethal in almost all situations.

So, even in the improbable event that those things are all true....WHY does scum!ABR put himself so far out there just to get control of this party? Why does scum!ABR make an unsolicited claim and draw unnecessary suspicion to himself? I mean, maybe he's scum, but I can't believe you guys seriously believe he's going out on a fucking limb here in order to....get a guaranteed kill on N2.

Like, seriously? THAT'S the payoff?


TL;DR: DP's thoughts about ABR's plan are dumb and wrong, regardless of what their role is, because the mechanics SIMPLY DO NOT WORK in the fashion they seem to feel they do, and even if they do realize how the mechanics work and are just expressing it poorly, it's a shitload of work and risk, especially for scum!abr, with very little gain.

-Cerb

okay I am not gonna talk to you if you are gonna be a jerk.

I thought the exact same thing that you guys thought and argued with titus over it so we asked for clarification. you are simply gonna have to accept the fact we know more than you. period fucking end of story. scum will want their team in the party.

@ yoyo

this isn't coming from me being emotionally compromised. I was giving abr a pass, titus was the who was all over him. I used the exact same arguments that are using. then a piece of the puzzle fell into place. and it isn't that he is campaigning it is how he is going about it. he told diamond that he wld put diamond in the party if diamond voted him and then he didn't despite diamond being a strong town read. stop treating me like I am incapable of being objective cos I can be. I once got in the nastiest bloodiest fight I have ever got into, I mean he was gonna be in my area down from canada and attending a paleontology conference and we had plans to meet up and him and his ta who I also knew and had played mafia with and we cancelled the plans cos we were so mad at each other. he was the doc and I had an inventor's protect and we protected each other despite being mad and scum missed 2 nks.

it was always drilled into my head by both mentors, wc first. I may turn a stark foaming at the mouth ragey person mad at some1 but if they are important to my wc I will do what i can to help/protect them.

titus is like "abr is 100% scum" and I am like "no he isn't" but I am defo seeing some markers here given what I know.

the problem that I am having with abr is his insistence that kewldog be on the team when kewldog stalled a lynch on some1 he was scumreading, is only addressing titus when I have played with kewldog before and it seems he is avoiding interaction.

I'm not being a jerk! The mechanics, as expressed above, contradict the plan your slot has been suggesting is reasonable. I'm pointing that out. Repeatedly. So, let's just get this straight: Are you telling me that the mechanics with regards to the MC and his adventuring party and how targeting multiple effects on a single person guarantees the success of those abilities, as expressed by the moderator, are wrong? Also, ABR has even specifically said he doesn't need to have any particular person on the team. Not sure where you get insistence that cooldog be on the team from that? Has cooldog been in *every* iteration of a potential list that he's given out? If so, okay, reasonable.

-Cerb

[DiamondSentinel]

@Cerberus I don't like that answer. You see he's scummy, and yet you are not only putting it off, but not even offering an alternative. AND you're putting him in a position of power!

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, @Cerb, he has indeed been on every iteration of Albert's team.

[Drunken Pirates]

Cerb, ABR and I had an exchange awhile back initially when I came back (start with the picture) to prove the very point you were questioning

because many people thought his selection as MC or party was wierd including CoolDog

. I said point blank to ABR that if he wanted to work together, he'd have to keep out CoolDog and Yoyo from the party.

His response was to throw me out from the party despite him thinking I was his second in command and the greatest hydra head since sliced bread.

My point there was to prove the very question you ended with in 2243. CoolDog didn't question his inclusion in the party.

~Titus

[pirate mollie]

titus plz

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Cerberus I don't like that answer. You see he's scummy, and yet you are not only putting it off, but not even offering an alternative. AND you're putting him in a position of power!

I never said I think he's scummy. Not once. I said I see contradictions between his statements in the early game and his actions, and I dislike his unsolicited claim. I've considered unvoting him, but it doesn't fucking matter so I haven't done so. Same reason why wgeurt's RVS vote is still sitting on Drixx.

And, what the hell do you think I meant when I said I wasn't taking the lead here on D1, wgeurts is? Like, whenever he feels up to it we'll talk shit through, until then don't expect me to offer alternatives on anything. I told you guys this already.

Cerb, ABR and I had an exchange awhile back initially when I came back (start with the picture) to prove the very point you were questioning

because many people thought his selection as MC or party was wierd including CoolDog

. I said point blank to ABR that if he wanted to work together, he'd have to keep out CoolDog and Yoyo from the party.

His response was to throw me out from the party despite him thinking I was his second in command and the greatest hydra head since sliced bread.

My point there was to prove the very question you ended with in 2243. CoolDog didn't question his inclusion in the party.

~Titus

I actually think his response to you suggesting he remove cooldog was to state he didn't need anyone in the party, and then some more talk happened, and you upped your demands to removal of yosarian AND cooldog, and that was the point at which he removed you. I get that Cooldog has always been in his parties(apparently, I'd check, but fuck it, whatever), but why couldn't it be yosarian who he needs, if you're right?

I think Mollie can answer that, btw, I'm sure me talking to you and provoking you to keep answering is driving her crazy.

-Cerb

[Drunken Pirates]

titus plz