So you're taking AlyG's word at 100% face value. Not a single thing in that post made you question the authenticity of their claim.dybeck wrote:Can somebody please tell me why are we going for the tracker and not the scum?
Is it upside-down day? Should I be walking around with shoes on my hand and gloves on my feet?
Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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FoS dybeck-
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dybeck Ooh ooh ooh
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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originality Goon
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God damnit, guys. I could start an elaborate lie here but I don't think it would be very good in the long run.
Everyone unvote AlyG. I'm 90% sure he is town. I did target Carrotcake during the night, and it would be really lucky of him to lie and get it right.
AlyG- You are fucking retarded. You should have kept your mouth shut, why the hell would you claim us two for no real reason? Your personal grudge against me is affecting your view of things. Why am I saying this? IM THE FUCKING VIG.
Why carrotcake? I got a bad vibe from him, It was mostly a gut feeling.
The best we can do now, that AlyG screwed us up, is to see the ones who wanted to lynch him I guess. Or me. Damn, this strategy is terrible. They could be wanting to lynch one of us now and NK the other at night. Dammit AlyG.-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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You sir are the most retarded vig I have ever seen in my life. Now do we believe one or either of these claims?
I guess you were right Lucienne.
I need to digest this whole episode. It's hurting my brain. So we have a scummy claim followed by a scummy counterclaim. Just not sure where to go from here.
I need to know the following from both AlyG and originality.
AlyG: Why did you wait to out originality and what prompted you to claim?
Why did you not either claim immediately or at least push for an originality lynch?
Why did you take such a defensive stance in your claiming post?
originality: Why would you kill anyone after a D1 with little to no usable information?
Is there any other reason we should believe you are a vig and not an SK or simple mafia?-
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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EBWOP:
And why are you blaiming AlyG for outing you? I would have never suspected a vig of performing such a feat.originality wrote:AlyG- You are fu*@ing retarded. You should have kept your mouth shut, why the hell would you claim us two for no real reason?
And please let's lose the language especially when directing it towards our fellow players.-
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originality Goon
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This is my first vig role. Sorry, but the idea of not killing on D1 didnt really cross my mind, plus I was pretty sure against carrotcake. Oops.
And my role security. Look at it this way: If I was mafia, I could have just called bs on AlyG's claim and pin him as a liar. If I was SK, I could have said the same thing, but the mafia would know AlyG was telling the truth and killed me in the night for sure. And if I was gonna lie, I could have easily claimed cop or doc or something, why would I claim the most sketchy role if I was to claim at all?
I have my eye on dybek. He was defending me on D1, but now that AlyG outed me as a powerrole he's saying he "knew I was scum" and defending AlyG to clean his name when he killed him this night. And I know for a fact there is no SK, his jump on shaft.ed is pretty damn suspicious.
Sorry I didn't know you guys had problems with the word fuck. How is putting symbols on it making it any better? The meaning is the same.
Good news of this mess is I can see people's alliances better.unvote vote dybek-
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dybeck Ooh ooh ooh
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No way. Carrotcake was actively scumhunting yesterday, and frankly was my absolute first pick for being protown - bar none.
If I'd been scum, I would have targeted him. If I'd been the doctor, I would have targeted him. If I were the vig, I most certainly would not have.
On Sat 15th you were even claiming carrotcake's death must have been because he'd scared a scum.
Originality - name me one single thing carrotcake said that made you think he was the most scummy one here - to the point where you would actually kill him. More scummy than Dr. Blackstrike or Oman, both of whom looked pretty scummy yesterday. There's just nothing there. You're totally lying and need to die.Eeny. Meeny. Miney. Vote.-
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dybeck Ooh ooh ooh
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Oman NK Immune Miller Vig
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Unvote
Just to clarify first:
Vollkan 399Lucienee wrote:Later, you do say you simulposted... what was your initial post here referring to?
I think could be a deadly gambit or true fact. I think its possible our best move would be to lynch originality if noone else comes up of course.
One reason is that his ammount of scummy so far leads me to think SK, and if he is, than we can clear AlyG. If he's town, we can clear AlyG, but if he's scum I'd be almost willing to bet this is a gambit.
I just think orig is the best option out of AlyG and Orig.
Now onto dybeck:
This reeks of inside information. If dybeck is scum AlyG is not in my mind. He knows, or at the least accepts, AlyG isn't lieing.dybeck wrote:Can somebody please tell me why are we going for the tracker and not the scum?
Well, do you or don't you? You "think"?dybeck wrote:ertainly I don't think I want to lynch AlyG,
Well, firstly, if he was scum a cop counterclaim would be what he wanted wouldn't it? And BTW there were two kills, a vig claim is increasingly stupid to make at this point. Even if he's alive today,the real vig will get him tonight. If he was an SK a vig is the only logical choice for a claimdybeck wrote:the reason originality claimed vig is because he knows he'd be counterclaimed if he claimed cop,
Killing N1 doesn't bother me on a daystart game, except D1 for us was horrid.
I agree that the choice for vig was not a good one.
Right now, I believe AlyG to be town-ish other than that I'm not sure. Originality is so...all over the shop.It's unfortunate that good oral sex excuses bad chemistry. - Korts-
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originality Goon
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Your aggressiveness just convinces me more and more of your mafianess.dybeck wrote:No way. Carrotcake was actively scumhunting yesterday, and frankly was my absolute first pick for being protown - bar none.
If I'd been scum, I would have targeted him. If I'd been the doctor, I would have targeted him. If I were the vig, I most certainly would not have.
On Sat 15th you were even claiming carrotcake's death must have been because he'd scared a scum.
Originality - name me one single thing carrotcake said that made you think he was the most scummy one here - to the point where you would actually kill him. More scummy than Dr. Blackstrike or Oman, both of whom looked pretty scummy yesterday. There's just nothing there. You're totally lying and need to die.
My thing is, the quietest ones are the most suspicious. He was the quietest one by a lot.
I claimed carrotcake's death must have scared a scum to get suspicion off me. It was damn obvious carrotcake didn't scare anyone. I didn't find Oman suspicious. He wasn't. He seems pretty town to me. As I said, it was just a vibe I got from carrotcake. And he wasn't helping town much at all. He seemed pretty confused about the present happenings most of the time. And I must admit, I was offset by why he kept his vote on me for so long in the beginning without one explanation. He voted during the joke stage, and kept it there while my wagon was forming. Only changed a while later when it had mostly died off.-
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Oman NK Immune Miller Vig
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Streeflo Mafia Scum
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Streeflo Mafia Scum
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vollkan The Interrogator
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Yuck.
Shaft.ed wrote: AlyG: Why did you wait to out originality and what prompted you to claim?
Why did you not either claim immediately or at least push for an originality lynch?
Why did you take such a defensive stance in your claiming post?
originality: Why would you kill anyone after a D1 with little to no usable information?
Is there any other reason we should believe you are a vig and not an SK or simple mafia?
Hang on....why would suspicion fall on YOU for Carrot's death? This makes no sense at all.Orig wrote: My thing is, the quietest ones are the most suspicious. He was the quietest one by a lot.
I claimed carrotcake's death must have scared a scum to get suspicion off me. It was damn obvious carrotcake didn't scare anyone. I didn't find Oman suspicious. He wasn't. He seems pretty town to me. As I said, it was just a vibe I got from carrotcake. And he wasn't helping town much at all. He seemed pretty confused about the present happenings most of the time. And I must admit, I was offset by why he kept his vote on me for so long in the beginning without one explanation. He voted during the joke stage, and kept it there while my wagon was forming. Only changed a while later when it had mostly died off.
Carrot was about more helpful than everybody else. Fine, he lurked early, but his later stuff was pure brilliance. I don't buy this at all.
Our possible scenarios as I see them are as follows:
1) AlyG = Tracker; Orig = Vig: To me, the massive inconsistencies in their behaviours (which we have all noted) makes this seem unlikely.
2) AlyG = Tracker; Orig = Scum (Maf/SK): Very possible. There were only 2 kills yerstday so maybe Orig figured he would have to claim something. Doc, Cop or RB could risk a counter so vig possibly seemed safe, seeing as AlyG, the scummiest person, was not NKed. By that, I mean that vig probably seemed a safe claim to scum-Orig because AlyG, who was such obvious scum, was not NKed. If there was a vig, the vig would likely have targeted AlyG.
3) AlyG = Scum; Orig = Vig: I cannot see scum taking this particular gambit. It would be suicide to claim tracker and then randomly call someone out.
4) AlyG = Mafia; Orig = Mafia: I want this to be true. It would make so much sense given their behaviour, but it is impossible to substantiate without a counter-claim.
Also, Dybeck's willingness to follow AlyG is very smelly (along with the SK-shaft.ed stuff from just before).
Basically, we are in a real mess here. We have two deeply-flawed power role claims and I find neither believable. But, they have claimed nonetheless.
I see us having 3 options:
1) Lynch AlyG: If AlyG is a tracker, then we know Orig is non-vanilla. If AlyG is mafia, then we can reasonably infer Orig is also.
2) Lynch Orig: If Orig is scum, then we learn that AlyG is either scum or tracker. If Orig is vig, then we learn that AlyG is probably tracker.
3) Look elsewhere. Dybeck seems a good starting point.
I don't think we should lynch Orig. Here's why:
If Orig is vig, there is probably no SK (the MOs on Carrot/Spurg were single).
If Orig is scum, then we can reasonably infer we have no vig (no counters). Therefore, Orig will very likely be NKed by the other scum faction. (** see "A" below)
**A - For this reason, I think it very likely that scum may be pushing Orig's lynch (ie. Dybeck). They know he is either vig or their enemy faction.
In other words, a scum Orig will be dead by tomorrow morning anyway. So, why potentially waste our lynch killing our vig when if he is lying he will be NKed?
As such, I strike out option 2 of the above. We are left with:
1) Lynch AlyG.
3) Go somewhere else.
I favour 3). As such,Vote: Dybeck-
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Oman NK Immune Miller Vig
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Vollkan, this line is what swayed me:
Vollkan wrote:If Orig is scum, then we can reasonably infer we have no vig (no counters). Therefore, Orig will very likely be NKed by the other scum faction
Its stupid to lynch him when he'll die tonight anyway.
I like AlyG's chances of being town now, even though he's crazy!
Vote DybeckIt's unfortunate that good oral sex excuses bad chemistry. - Korts-
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originality Goon
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Streeflo Mafia Scum
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shaft.ed dem.agogue
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dybeck Ooh ooh ooh
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You really find originality's claim remotely plausible?
Are you kidding? That's mindblowing! You really think that a pro-town vig could possibly have found carrotcake the scummiest player yesterday?
And 'strangulation' - does this sound like the hallmark of the vig?
You backed originality into a corner, and managed to actually get pretty decent proof on him with a VERY POOR claim. Please don't fail to capitalize on it now!Eeny. Meeny. Miney. Vote.-
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Oman NK Immune Miller Vig
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dybeck does make a good point about the strangulation flavour, and i don't really thing Carrotcake was that bad...but I don't really want to lynch a orig for that as this is his first vig role and its possible he's not a great target chooser.It's unfortunate that good oral sex excuses bad chemistry. - Korts-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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It is 'plausible'. Give me one reason why Orig cannot be the vig. He is scummy, yes, but it is still plausible and it would be wrong of us to push a lynch on him.Dybeck wrote: You really find originality's claim remotely plausible?
Are you kidding? That's mindblowing! You really think that a pro-town vig could possibly have found carrotcake the scummiest player yesterday?
And 'strangulation' - does this sound like the hallmark of the vig?
You backed originality into a corner, and managed to actually get pretty decent proof on him with a VERY POOR claim. Please don't fail to capitalize on it now!
That said, the fact that he killed Carrot is more than a little troubling and supports the contention that he is scum; nonetheless, it doesn't prove he is scum.
Also, you are ignoring what I just proved:
If Orig is scum, it means we have a SK and a mafia group and, therefore, it is very likely Orig will be NKed by the rival faction.
Oh and by the way, I have found very significant contradiction which may be of interest to you all:
Now,Dybeck in #286 wrote: 2)a) the entire bandwagon on Originality looks like it's based on a dumb thing he said on like Page 1 and his failure to defend himself adequately since then. It has all the hallmarks of a newbie error than a scum slip, andmy gut says he's not scum.That's it.
Dybeck did not mention Originality in any post at all since then. Isn't it interesting how quickly his views can invert just because he acquires evidence that Orig is either scum or a power role?Dybeck in #404 wrote: Originality visited somebody. Now they're dead.
vote: originality
It's not like we didn't think he was scum yesterday.
Best of all, Dybeck actually rejected the case on Originality and, hence, it is going to be mighty difficult for him to argue that he got a different perception from a reread.
My vote stands.-
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Oman NK Immune Miller Vig
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Ah, a fantastic catch vollkan.
my thoughts: if dybeck is scum, orig is not (not sure how it works with dybeck =town) Its just that here: "my gut says he's not scum" he is claiming personal responsibility and here: "It's not like we didn't think he was scum yesterday." He's using a "we" to put blame on the whole town. Something? Nothing? I don't know.It's unfortunate that good oral sex excuses bad chemistry. - Korts-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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Now for the pièce de résistance...
If today's lynchee is the SK, we know for near-certainty that Orig is mafia. Reason is blindingly simple:
There were 2 kills last night. If there is an SK, that means either:
1) Mafia didn't kill (ridiculously unlikely)
2) Orig is mafia (far more likely)
Now, if that happens, we can then prove overnight whether AlyG is scum with Orig.
How you ask?
Easy.
We get a targeting power role to claim. Then we order AlyG to track that power role; this allows us to test the following day whether or not AlyG can tell us who that person targeted. If AlyG fails this little test, we know he is scum and we have them both caught.
My feeling at the moment is that Dybeck is our SK and that AlyG is scum with Orig.-
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vollkan The Interrogator
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