Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Rob14]

Kraeg has been prodded.

[OceanWind]

We start with 497 The case on Ranger is a straw grasp. And it's

hidden within a bunch of other questions so you can't really see it.

I read this a couple of times to make sure I didn't miss some hidden meaning. I'll assume you started off with a joke as an opening act to lift people's spirits and make them laugh because despite how much I attacked your comprehension ability, I don't think you intended to be serious here.

It starts with challenging runner's scum reads, saying he has to be town reading everyone he isn't scum reading (duh??). This is poe. Nothing to be suspicious of

I don't find Ranger suspicious for using POE. I find her suspicious because as early as Post 129, she audaciously declared that she would be "extremely surprised" to see scum outside of four names that she listed - on page 6. That looked like scum putting up a false bravado front because she was nervous, similar to a first-time speaker prepping themselves before a speech.

How does one white knight someone when you don't know their alignment? I was never fond of etl's push against persuvial, and although persuival's posting wasn't as elegant as etl's, his points made sense to me. The only towncred Ranger got from defending persuvial is the transparency of their read, and ocean blew the defence way out proportion.

Your first sentence doesn't make any sense. Whiteknighting is when scum defend a townie under suspicion. The objectives range from 1. looking town upon their flip, 2. gaining their favor by buddying them and being their only ally, 3. preventing their lynch so as to take them deep into the game as an easy mislynch. When scum whiteknight a townie, it looks unnatural because they don't have good reasons for townreading said townie and do it purely for strategic gain. Ranger's defense of Persivul smelled like bullshit and her being too sure of Persivul and complimenting his arguments against EspeciallyTheLies looked like the kind of certainty scum have when they know that a townie is town.

Look at 617 we see that Ocean thinks persuvial could be town, and we saw etl's aggressive push against persuvial. Again, not only is the white knighting thing blown way out of proportion, it is done so under the fact that in ocean's eye's a potential mislynch was within reach.

What you just posted is incoherent. Yes, I at that point had a townread on Persivul and yes EspeciallyTheLies was aggressively pushing Persivul. Ranger at that point attacked EspeciallyTheLies rather than Persivul which if Ranger is scum serves the purpose of making EspeciallyTheLies look even more scummy upon Persivul's lynch and townflip while she Ranger gets credit for "calling" Persivul as town before he flipped. If the lynch failed, she'd have Persivul on her side because she was his only ally; the one he could count on. "Blowing it out of proportion" is a clearly not a scumtell. For example, you are blowing my suspicion on Ranger out of proportion and I assume you think you are town. We as town emphasize our reads and hammer down our points because we feel that they are worthy of consideration.

622 I point this out as an addition to my case and get told I'm moving the goal posts.

You first claimed that I should be voting Persivul and that I was sheeping EspeciallyTheLies's case and you scumread me for that reason. I told you I was not sheeping, nor was I scumreading Persivul. When your misunderstanding was brought to your attention, you pretending like it didn't exist and pulled a new reason out of your ass without even acknowledging my response. Your new reason (619 makes even less sense than your old one because the old one could be a case of genuine misunderstanding. The new one just looked like you trying to save face. Of course scum whiteknight townies that are being pushed if they think it is useful to them so I don't see what your point is.

His push against titus saying prohawk wasn't scumhunting was blah now that I'm looking at it again

Titus was not talking sense. I still have no idea how a town played could play the way she did.

All it takes is a naked vote for the ate to kick in. Town ate tends to be at everyone. This ate is directed at an individual player

Also let's not forget that titus was a counterwagon to a rising wagon on ocean

ATE means "appeal to emotion." I haven't appealed to anyone's emotion. I think you may be mis-referring to my frustration with the game as "ATE." I was frustrated with Titus because Titus could not be reasoned with. She incessantly called me scum without bothering to address my points or engage me. Whenever I try to reason with her, she ignored me and a few minutes later, she called for my lynch. Such arrogant behavior has no place in mafia games and is frustrating to deal with. I wasn't frustrated with everyone because everyone wasn't playing like Titus. Only Titus played like Titus. I've seen just as many cases of two counterwagons being town with scum sitting back as I have with town and scum counterwagons. This point (lol, counterwagon) is bad and lazy. Don't be bad and lazy.

[OceanWind]

Vote Count #2.3:

OceanWind:

EspeciallyTheLies, Flubbernugget (2)

Ranger:

OceanWind, Kraeg (2)

EspeciallyTheLies:

Ranger, Ythan (2)

Ythan:

Marge, Firebringer, ProHawk (3)

Firebringer:

Persivul (1)

Not Voting:

Kop,

With 11 people alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LA:

Kop until Sunday morning.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-09 22:47:00)

I don't like the Ythan wagon. Ranger isn't going anywhere. I'd like to try and see if we can consolidate on Firebringer. Doesn't hurt that one of my few townreads is pushing there.

UNVOTE: Ranger
VOTE: Firebringer

[Firebringer]

lol, you are going for two mislynches in a row?
Bold move scum, bold move.

[Kraeg]

I'm feeling a little comfortable with the Ythan lynch. I think people have presented some convincing reasons. Ranger would still be on my watch list even if I switch my vote.

[Kraeg]

With regards to ETL, I don't like the "lynch me" mentality. It doesn't make sense. If you're really pro-town, why would you even get yourself lynched on purpose, and give another mislynch for the town. That's definitely a bad thing to do.

[Kraeg]

But as of now, not planning to change my vote. I still think Ranger is the correct lynch for this Day.

[Persivul]

Hey guys are you bored of the game or do you just post less on weekends

That's something that we should probably talk to zor about postgame

I had to pick up my sister at the airport and run her around yesterday. Today I'm going to the Steelers-Raiders game and that will eat up most of the day. But IMO the game's moving reasonably well.

Your 1363 on ocean was underwhelming, and his 1376 was a good response. Who else could you vote today?

[Kop]

If it's a regular vig claim sure you can keep watching them but 1 shot vig is like the easiest/laziest sk fakeclaim in this setup.

This seems absolutely backwards. If you're a serial killer and you claim vig, then you can shoot every night. If you claim one-shot vig and you continue to shoot, then you're outing yourself as a liar.

In theory, I can see where Ythan is coming from, because claiming a regular vig, it couldn't hold strong credit than a 1 shot because if you think further into it, she could shoot the first night, then stop killing after that and just help people towards a lynch, and if she isn't nightkilled or lynched, she rides that claim to the bank.

Claiming a regular vig, people might start to think, and they might just figure it out that she isn't exactly the vig we are thinking of.

And the other thing you have to think about, is by claiming regular vig, mafia will want that out of the game because they are a threat, so a SK claiming vig just basically kills them off, but by claiming one shot, she takes that shot then doesn't do anymore after that, so in theory mafia, don't see her as a threat anymore because in effect, they see the SK as a VT.

But obviously she flipped town, and I was on that wagon. My vote was naked but I was pretty much convinced that she was the SK from reading the posts in this thread. I don't like the idea of trading, I have seen it many a time where they offer themselves up to the town in order to be kept alive, and it just didn't benefit the town whatsoever. If I believe your genuinely scum, we don't trade, I'd rather the rope around your neck, simply because we let you live one night, you do what we tell you, but then muddy the water to break connections with partners.

ETL, I'm not sure what game you are playing, but if your town, you don't offer yourself up for a lynch, regardless of what suspicion you have. Come on, defend yourself, prove you are town, get the suspicion of you, and play to your win con and find scum. If you feel you can't bypass your suspicion and want to be lynched, I suggest you replace out, because by lynching you, you flip town, you are helping scum, more than helping your win con in winning as town.

[Kop]

Fucking yikes how do you claim vig un cc'd and still get wagoned that fucking hard

Easy: by having scum on the wagon. Lots of scum. Maybe even three.

I'm dead serious, I'd vote to lynch any of the members of that Titus wagon.

In related posting: my scumread on Firebringer has vanished. With the defense of Titus, I don't see scum defending her in that manner.

How do you not see scum defending her in that manner?

[Kop]

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

During the wagon of Titus, you tried to get a wagon formed on me, with no basis or arguement to show for that vote. And ever since the flip, you haven't followed it through. Obviously for you to wanting to lynch me, you obviously have a scum read on me, you have YET to engage myself, asked any questions, or even followed it through.

What was the whole basis of your vote being on me during that wagon on Titus?

[Marge]

Vote Count #2.3:

OceanWind:

EspeciallyTheLies, Flubbernugget (2)

Ranger:

OceanWind, Kraeg (2)

EspeciallyTheLies:

Ranger, Ythan (2)

Ythan:

Marge, Firebringer, ProHawk (3)

Firebringer:

Persivul (1)

Not Voting:

Kop,

With 11 people alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LA:

Kop until Sunday morning.

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-09 22:47:00)

I don't like the Ythan wagon. Ranger isn't going anywhere. I'd like to try and see if we can consolidate on Firebringer. Doesn't hurt that one of my few townreads is pushing there.

UNVOTE: Ranger
VOTE: Firebringer

Why don't you like the wagon?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

what the hell... ocean suddenly changing to firebringer after screaming for ranger's head forever...?

[Marge]

With regards to ETL, I don't like the "lynch me" mentality. It doesn't make sense. If you're really pro-town, why would you even get yourself lynched on purpose, and give another mislynch for the town. That's definitely a bad thing to do.

People don't think that way.
It's really null because you either have players who really do get fed up or scum that fake the emotion.

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

During the wagon of Titus, you tried to get a wagon formed on me, with no basis or arguement to show for that vote. And ever since the flip, you haven't followed it through. Obviously for you to wanting to lynch me, you obviously have a scum read on me, you have YET to engage myself, asked any questions, or even followed it through.

What was the whole basis of your vote being on me during that wagon on Titus?

I made points why your vote was scummy.

[Kop]

With regards to ETL, I don't like the "lynch me" mentality. It doesn't make sense. If you're really pro-town, why would you even get yourself lynched on purpose, and give another mislynch for the town. That's definitely a bad thing to do.

People don't think that way.
It's really null because you either have players who really do get fed up or scum that fake the emotion.

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

During the wagon of Titus, you tried to get a wagon formed on me, with no basis or arguement to show for that vote. And ever since the flip, you haven't followed it through. Obviously for you to wanting to lynch me, you obviously have a scum read on me, you have YET to engage myself, asked any questions, or even followed it through.

What was the whole basis of your vote being on me during that wagon on Titus?

I made points why your vote was scummy.

You made your points, Prohawk didn't. That's what I am trying to work out, I understand people making points for there votes, but when they don't when trying to start a wagon, I find it baffling.

I didn't put any of my points forward when I voted for Titus, but the points had already been put forward by others, and I did put my opinion forward, before I placed my vote.

[Kop]

With regards to ETL, I don't like the "lynch me" mentality. It doesn't make sense. If you're really pro-town, why would you even get yourself lynched on purpose, and give another mislynch for the town. That's definitely a bad thing to do.

People don't think that way.
It's really null because you either have players who really do get fed up or scum that fake the emotion.

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

During the wagon of Titus, you tried to get a wagon formed on me, with no basis or arguement to show for that vote. And ever since the flip, you haven't followed it through. Obviously for you to wanting to lynch me, you obviously have a scum read on me, you have YET to engage myself, asked any questions, or even followed it through.

What was the whole basis of your vote being on me during that wagon on Titus?

I made points why your vote was scummy.

You made your points, Prohawk didn't. That's what I am trying to work out, I understand people making points for there votes, but when they don't when trying to start a wagon, I find it baffling.

I didn't put any of my points forward when I voted for Titus, but the points had already been put forward by others, and I did put my opinion forward, before I placed my vote.

Actually looking back at my posts, it wasn't a strong opinion, but it was just the basis of the trade that Titus proposed, I don't like trades, I think the whole situation would still be there on day two, and wouldn't have been resolved. That element of suspicion would still be there, and would distract us.

[ProHawk]

...you haven't been around Kop. It wasn't that I have a good case on you, it was a Titus isn't a good lynch, you were vote.

[Ythan]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Firebringer

Nice vote.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

this is terrible.

[Kop]

this is terrible.

What's your objection? Put out your points anyone can say this is terrible.

[Kop]

this is terrible.

What's your objection? Put out your points, anyone can say this is terrible.

Missed out the comma in between points and anyone.

I'd rather someone put out points about why it's terrible other than saying it's terrible. It doesn't really convince me that it is indeed that, it's lazy way of objecting to a wagon than having to prove to why it is that.

@persuvial what is your facts of your vote on Firebringer?

[Marge]

With regards to ETL, I don't like the "lynch me" mentality. It doesn't make sense. If you're really pro-town, why would you even get yourself lynched on purpose, and give another mislynch for the town. That's definitely a bad thing to do.

People don't think that way.
It's really null because you either have players who really do get fed up or scum that fake the emotion.

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

During the wagon of Titus, you tried to get a wagon formed on me, with no basis or arguement to show for that vote. And ever since the flip, you haven't followed it through. Obviously for you to wanting to lynch me, you obviously have a scum read on me, you have YET to engage myself, asked any questions, or even followed it through.

What was the whole basis of your vote being on me during that wagon on Titus?

I made points why your vote was scummy.

You made your points, Prohawk didn't. That's what I am trying to work out, I understand people making points for there votes, but when they don't when trying to start a wagon, I find it baffling.

I didn't put any of my points forward when I voted for Titus, but the points had already been put forward by others, and I did put my opinion forward, before I placed my vote.

Actually looking back at my posts, it wasn't a strong opinion, but it was just the basis of the trade that Titus proposed, I don't like trades, I think the whole situation would still be there on day two, and wouldn't have been resolved. That element of suspicion would still be there, and would distract us.

None of this explains why it was scummy just something you disagree with.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ocean is grandstanding. flooding the thread with nonsense walls. suddenly there's a phantom wagon on firebringer out of nowhere. that's fuckin suspicious. and ocean just happily switches from ranger, who is supposedly the scummiest scum to ever scum.... makes no sense and is scummy as fuck.

[OceanWind]

what the hell... ocean suddenly changing to firebringer after screaming for ranger's head forever...?

I have scumreads on both Firebringer and Ranger. Ranger wagon wasn't going anywhere so I thought the Firebringer one might. His latest posts are also a lot scummier than Ranger's. He's coasting. Ranger's at least posting some content and has some depth of thought process that made me question the read. I explained the first point in my vote switch though. How did you miss it?

ocean is grandstanding. flooding the thread with nonsense walls. suddenly there's a phantom wagon on firebringer out of nowhere. that's fuckin suspicious. and ocean just happily switches from ranger, who is supposedly the scummiest scum to ever scum.... makes no sense and is scummy as fuck.

Nice of you to dismiss a wall of content as "nonsense." Are you even bothering to read the game at this point?

The Firebringer wagon is a great one. What did Firebringer do that was town? Where did I call Ranger the "scummiest scum to ever scum?"

You are irritating. I enjoy discussing analysis, not correcting people on facts because that's mundane and not the reason I play mafia. Read the thread, then get back to me.

@Marge

- I'll try and explain the Ythan read if I have more time but I haven't found his content as objectionable as Firebringer's and I think you may be confbiasing here.