Mgm's Egypt Mafia - Over

[the silent speaker]

Kilroy, when people deliberately lie to the town, it is usually because they are scum. You have admitted to deliberately lying to the town. I assume you do not intend to claim that this is because you are scum. Why, then?

[Kilroy8675309]

For my next performance, I shall be doing, "Kilroy's Rebuttal, in E Sarcasm," followed my "Rebuttal, Part Deux" for my other fans. Enjoy.

You do remember that Nightson, a claimed investigator, features on your list of scum, the list that we should lynch off, right?

Oh... oh I see your point.

Everyone

on that list must be scum! What a fool I've been, saying that some of those people are Town, some of those people are Scum... thank you. I see the light now. Thank you.

Fake edit:

Oh, rapier wit! A fake edit! How comical! Oh, were I a man of

half

your intelligence.

Kilroy, make up your mind already! Are you trying to pull a flavour disappearing act here? First you say you're Papyrus, then you call it all BS, now you're Papyrus again. It just looks like you're using flavour and information in general when and how it suits you, just to get you out of a tricky spot.

Ahh, see, I was unaware that but a single person on this Earth, fictional or otherwise, was allowed any given name. My apologies - for a moment, I thought myself a

different

Papyrus than the one I had mentioned.

Your claim has been modified so many times, I'm pretty sure that a good deal of people (me included) don't know what to think anymore.

I lost

you

!? Of all people, I mustn't lose

you

! If you don't understand something, what hope do the rest of us have? You make sure we are all aware you understand

everything

- your sum-ups are a testament to that - and without you, we would for certain be lost!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indeed, my name is actually Papyrus, I am a fisherman who is sworn to fight baddies and fight for Egypt (modified to avoid direct quoting, obv.) I lied to the Town because I thought it was obvious. Apparently, I'm just that good at lying. Or ya'll are stupid. It's one or it's the other. A flavor claim from me is pointless. I thought

that

was obvious, too, but... I'll just stop overestimating your collective intelligence.

Again, the case on me has no merit. I mean, Nightson has even admitted that he is willing to vote for me, even if he believes I am a cop. This shows not only pettiness, but stupidity, and anti-Town behavior. As my incredibly unobservant, trying-too-hard-to-appear-protown friend (Sacred) has pointed out, Nightson is on the list. That's... a defense? "You haven't cleared me, thus, you're scum"? What? I'm sorry Nanook didn't investigate Nightson. Guess what? I don't plan on it. I'm pretty confident he's pro-Town. I'm not wasting a night of investigation on someone who has been acting in a very pro-Town fashion. Any of the other people on the list (with maybe some exceptions - don't waste time asking, I won't tell you who,) may or may not recieve an investigation from me.

We should definitely decide on a lynch - even if it's me. Stuff needs to

happen

, and sitting around saying, "Kilroy's an ***. Kilroy's scum." is doing nothing. I am scum, or

I'm not scum

. If you're really curious, and really stupid, lynch me. This will auto-confirm three people in the game (hopefully, one of them will not be modkilled due to inactivity.) If you do not do the Mafia's work for them, as someone else whose name escapes me has put it, then you will get another investigation result tomorrow, if I'm not dead.

[Blight]

Albert wasn't an investigator. He was lying when he said that.

Yes, I admitted that I was unsure about Albert being scum. In fact, I think most of the people (if not all of them) voted for Albert not because they thought he was scum but because he was screwing the town pretty badly. He led us in all the wrong directions and ended up being a big distraction to the town due to his constant lying and the fact that he cost us a day. My one vote was on Nanook, but it was the only vote there. It looked like everyone was focused on getting rid of Albert and I figured that with him gone we could start looking at the right people again. I mean, we spent that whole day talking about nothing except Albert. How was that helpful for town?

If you want to vote for me for "following the crowd" then why not vote for everyone else who followed RafK in voting Albert (or at least FOS them), including yourself? MOS has followed the voting trend with almost all of his votes. Him voting for me after you just proves that point.

Actually, some people did voice the possibility of Albert being mafia, when he argued that mafia wouldn't have such a powerful role and someone (I think it was Zindaras but I could be wrong) countered this theory.

Also, when I said that you followed the crowd, I meant this bit:
"And even when I suggested that some people unvote Albert no one did. So, I took that as confirmation that he should be lynched."
You suggested people unvoted, you didn't think Albert was the lynch for the day, yet then voted simply because people wouldn't unvote. I called that following the crowd. Not the fact that people voted for Albert. It's the why that matters.

However, note that first you say "I'm still a little reluctant of putting the final vote on someone who's more than likely just a self-serving townie.

But, there's really no one else to go for

", although you clearly thought that Nanook was scum(my) and now you say that you voted Albert to end the day and because people agreed to it.
Your reasons to vote differ and are in contradiction to other opinions you've expressed.

Vote:Albert for Lynch/Execution/Etcetra

I now fully believe RafK's innocence.

Albert, talk fast, and make it good.

vote: Albert

,

putting him at half lynch

.

Vote: Albert

Perhaps he needs to see more votes?
Or maybe he needs a prod.

lol, Albert diekthx.

vote: Albert B. Rampage

Welcome back, Fonz.

Vote: Albert

Those are a few people that never left a reason for voting for Albert (you're up there). How is that not "following the crowd"? I've read that day over, and almost every vote seems to be more out of frustration with Albert's play than him actually being scum. I've gave my reasons for dropping the hammer on him, but if that's not good enough for you there's not much else I can say.

Kilroy's still a question mark. The only thing I've found about Papyrus related to Egypt is that it's some sort of Egyptian paper. I find it odd that we can't find anything about him. Still, if he's telling the truth, he essentially has the most powerful role in this game so far and lynching him would be a pretty big mistake.

Unvote

I think he's now given enough flavour that Nightson could confirm him.

Vote: Mastermind of Sin

because I'm not a fan with how he's been playing so far.

Also, now that the roleblocker has a choice to make (and assuming RafK and Kilroy live past tonight), I'm going to state this for the record: I'm pro-town.

[Setael]

Evidently I misunderstood about Albert - I thought he really was investigating Townies and being told they were guilty, but his title on the dead list doesn't say anything but night starter, so I think you're right that he was just lying. What a weirdo. In any case, I'll bet a couple mafia felt safe throwing their vote on him, knowing no one would mind since he was being such a hindrance. One more reason to suspect MoS.

That has nothing to do with defending. I ask questions like that a lot. It's a way of asking for suspicions. I felt Mossy's opinions weren't very clear, so I asked him who he wanted to die.

The way I see this exchange is like when you're playing in real life and you see two people sitting next to each other and one turns to the other and says "Who should we lynch?" there's almost no chance that they're BOTH mafia. It's much more likely that one is trying to get a read on the other one, or like you said, asking them for their suspicions. I'm pretty sure MoS is scum so Zindaras is looking pretty Town to me. Not an exact science, but it's a hunch.

As for Kilroy, the main reason I think he's a detective is his antagonistic, patronizing attitude from the moment he roleclaimed. If he was mafia and was going to roleclaim, I think he wouldn't have been so arrogant and repugnant. He seems like the type who wouldn't mind getting lynched so he can tell us all how stupid we were to kill him and lose an investigator. It's actually quite distasteful to defend him, but the chance of more successful investigations is worth not lynching him. In fact, the chance of making the roleblocker choose between him and Rafk is worth not lynching him. Plus, why waste our day lynch on someone the mafia will be motivated to use a NK on?

[Zindaras]

Kilroy's still a question mark. The only thing I've found about Papyrus related to Egypt is that it's some sort of Egyptian paper. I find it odd that we can't find anything about him. Still, if he's telling the truth, he essentially has the most powerful role in this game so far and lynching him would be a pretty big mistake.

Even if you wiki it, you'll find that Papyrus is also a fictitious hero. Here is a fairly official site. There is, however, one problem: It comes only in Dutch and French. That's why I would be able to find information on this guy that most others here wouldn't be able to find.

I think he's now given enough flavour that Nightson could confirm him.

And who's to say Nightson will be alive tomorrow? Or that he really is Papyrus but Mafia? The fact that Imhotep, a celebrated inventor who the Egyptians even turned into a god, came up scum would hint at the fact that it is not as clear as it seems. Proven role name is not proven alignment, even less so than proven role, which we don't have.

As for Kilroy, the main reason I think he's a detective is his antagonistic, patronizing attitude from the moment he roleclaimed. If he was mafia and was going to roleclaim, I think he wouldn't have been so arrogant and repugnant. He seems like the type who wouldn't mind getting lynched so he can tell us all how stupid we were to kill him and lose an investigator. It's actually quite distasteful to defend him, but the chance of more successful investigations is worth not lynching him. In fact, the chance of making the roleblocker choose between him and Rafk is worth not lynching him. Plus, why waste our day lynch on someone the mafia will be motivated to use a NK on?

If he's town. And I don't think he'd be any nicer if he were scum.

[Blight]

I think he's now given enough flavour that Nightson could confirm him.

And who's to say Nightson will be alive tomorrow? Or that he really is Papyrus but Mafia? The fact that Imhotep, a celebrated inventor who the Egyptians even turned into a god, came up scum would hint at the fact that it is not as clear as it seems. Proven role name is not proven alignment, even less so than proven role, which we don't have.

I'd honestly be really surprised if mafia chose to kill Nightson rather than Rafk or Kilroy. Nightson's ability isn't nearly as strong as the other two. You do make a good point, though. Given proven flavour doesn't necessarily translate into proven alignment, especially considering Imhotep. But, at least we'll know if he's telling the truth about being Papyrus. And, if he's telling the truth and happens to be this ficitional Egyptian

hero

I think it would at least lessen the chances that he's scum.

I just think, for right now, we should give him the benefit of the doubt, like we did with RafK on day 1. With Kilroy still alive (and assuming he's telling the truth), he could wiz through the list of names with his super cop abilities and probably hit scum before we can with just the lynches.

[Thoth]

If Kilroy is telling the truth this time and has no flavour that's a lot more believable to me as Mgm stated in the opening post there would be ordinary Egyptians in the game.

It still does not explain Nanook's vote to revive Yos.

[The Fonz]

Whoa, I totally just stumbled across this.

Well, we know VD was telling the truth about his power. Also, I can't see how you don't think it's beneficial to have a night where no-one died. With the mafia RB out there, we couldn't have gained that much anyway.

Perhaps I missed or forgot something, but when exactly did we become knowledgeable of a mafia RB?

Rafk has been blocked every night since he claimed.

What he said. Since when do town RBs roleblock claimed cops?

Sacred's looked more likely a joke to me than yours did, if anything.

Well, I think that this is the third thing you've said about my vote and your reasoning for voting me. So now I'm a bit confused.
The reasons you stated in the post where you voted me had nothing to do with my activity and contribution. But that's what you later brought up as explanation for your vote. That you're pressuring me to say more.
And now you come and say that you viewed my vote as more joke-like than the one MoS cast. Yet I was first in line when it came to voting.
A bit of a mish-mash of reasons if you ask me.

Unvote

Look, it's really not that hard, OK? I voted

one of you and MOS

because voting for a pretty-much confirmed town power role is at best not helpful. I voted

you

rather than

him

because we'd just spent several pages on MoS-scrutiny, and had very little to go on vis-a-vis you.

Actually, some people did voice the possibility of Albert being mafia, when he argued that mafia wouldn't have such a powerful role and someone (I think it was Zindaras but I could be wrong) countered this theory.

It was me, and it wasn't the power, it was the flavour. Khepri is a pretty unambiguously good character.

Kilroy is REALLY pissing me off, but he's not the lynch.

And who's to say Nightson will be alive tomorrow? Or that he really is Papyrus but Mafia? The fact that Imhotep, a celebrated inventor who the Egyptians even turned into a god, came up scum would hint at the fact that it is not as clear as it seems.

The same Imhotep who's the main villain in 'The Mummy?' THAT Imhotep?

It still does not explain Nanook's vote to revive Yos.

It does, actually. Did you read his claim? He puts in two names on odd-numbered nights, getting the alignment of the first on that night, and the other on the following night. So he got the alignment of Yos the night AFTER the revive-movement day.

[Kilroy8675309]

Right, but what Thoth is saying, is why didn't Nanook just decide to wait to play his revive vote until he learned the nature of Yos. I don't know the true answer, I've given the best explanation I can think of (that doesn't have a synonym of the word "stupid" in it,) and that's that.

I'm really not scum. If we lynch another scum, though, maybe we'll see a pattern emerge. I know, it's a little much to hope for, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibility. A theme amongst scum would be terribly convenient. It might explain why Imhotep is teh scums, as well.

That's all I have to add. I'm off!

[Zindaras]

Look, it's really not that hard, OK? I voted

one of you and MOS

because voting for a pretty-much confirmed town power role is at best not helpful. I voted

you

rather than

him

because we'd just spent several pages on MoS-scrutiny, and had very little to go on vis-a-vis you.

Note again how Fonz is adding to his post long after he has made it.

Actually, some people did voice the possibility of Albert being mafia, when he argued that mafia wouldn't have such a powerful role and someone (I think it was Zindaras but I could be wrong) countered this theory.

It was me, and it wasn't the power, it was the flavour. Khepri is a pretty unambiguously good character.

You didn't counter the theory. You subscribed to it.

To my mind, it's more that I absolutely believe Albert is Khepri, and that his power is exactly as he described it. I can't see that being a scum role.

(Though the claim that 'the mod would confirm him as town' when he used the ability has been shown to be false).

There's no mention there of clearing Albert on the basis of flavour.

I countered this post, and one of Albert's, with this:

Mafia wouldn't have an ability like mine - too powerful. Therefore, I must be town.

Oh, for Ra's sake. Don't be ridiculous. In my memory, I've seen day-ending roles twice before, once as scum, once as town, which amounts to a nice ol' 50%. The role makes far more sense and is far more powerful for a scumbag.

To my mind, it's more that I absolutely believe Albert is Khepri, and that his power is exactly as he described it. I can't see that being a scum role.

(Though the claim that 'the mod would confirm him as town' when he used the ability has been shown to be false).

FoS: The Fonz

Seriously, I don't see why everyone was tripping over themselves to revive you. The Mafia are revealed to have an

Inventor

, and you say that you can't see a role as a scumrole? Seriously, Inventor is probably one of the least likely scumroles around. Offhand, I can't think of a game where I've seen a scum-inventor.

The same Imhotep who's the main villain in 'The Mummy?' THAT Imhotep?

You've mentioned this before and you got the same response then. It has been stated on multiple occasions that the dead Imhotep we have here is extremely likely not the Imhotep from the Mummy. If you had read my post, you would've noticed that the Imhotep I was talking about was quite clearly

not

the Imhotep from the Mummy.

[Kilroy8675309]

Just reminding everyone, the deadline

is

in four days. Don't let that fact slip past you until it's too late.

[Mgm]

Vote count

Kilroy8675309 (4): Nightson, TSS, Thoth, MOS
MOS (3): Kilroy8675309, Setael, Blight
Sacred (2): inHimshallibe, Niempie
Blight (1): Sacred
Niempie (1): Zindaras
Zindaras (1): The Fonz

It's 8 votes to lynch

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sweet, I have 3 votes now! You're finally getting somewhere. If only it was going to do you any good.

Gah, I can't make up my mind about Kilroy. I see two possibilities here:

1) He's scum. He was caught replacing a scummy role and made a scummy claim. He decided to direct a lot of derision at anyone who attacked him, trying to get them to back off of him, while also changing the details of his claim so much that no one knows whether or not he was serious or not about the details of his role that don't make sense. While doing this, he was able to sneak in fake mechanics that would back up some of his earlier statements that he was called on.

2) He's town. He decided to have fun at the expense of everyone else in the game, throwing insults and derision at them because he felt like it. He thought it would be funny to make up a bunch of random flavor about his role to confuse people. He decided to make a lot of cryptic statements about his role for some reason, waiting a long time before explaining what he meant by them.

I don't know which one is more likely. My instincts say #1, but my knowledge of him as a bad player makes me think #2.

[RafK]

Kilroy's annoying behaviour makes this difficult. I am now inclined to let him have a night to prove himself. Which means I need to find a better lynch vote very quickly.

MOS is "there" so I'll look at him. I also keep getting getting scummy vibes off Blight, so I'll look there too.

Incidentally, Blight- I've only (to my knowledge) been blocked once. Last night day started early, remember? But it's nice to know you or your scum buddies were going to block me last night anyway

[Mastermind of Sin]

I am not a better lynch vote.

[Kilroy8675309]

You're a better lynch than I am, most likely.

[Nightson]

unvote, vote: Niempie

I'm sick, my head feels horrible. I don't think Killroy is scum, so I vote Niempie because I think he might be.

[Mgm]

Deadline is approaching...

[RafK]

Really, looking at his posts, the only thing which catches my eye STRONGLY on Blight is:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 565#694565

So, there wasn't anything on Albert. I'm still a little reluctant of putting the final vote on someone who's more than likely just a self-serving townie. But, there's really no one else to go for and a self-serving townie is almost as bad as scum (especially since he's proven to hurt the town AND we can't trust anything he says), so...

Vote: Albert.

Blight had previously been one of the few defenders of Albert, then even here he admits he thinks he's town, but votes him anyway. I to some extent feel that only scum (who knew Albert wasn't one of them) had good reason to defend Albert, and it's redoubled in this case by the fact that he said he thought Albert was town but then voted him anyway.

Blight replaced rolandofthewhite, who basically didn't post (one in the pre-game, and one random-vote early day 1), so there's nothing there to draw on.

My problem here is that there is no time to get a wagon going, a claim out of Blight (if people want it), etc.

mgm: Is there any chance of getting a 2 week deadline extension? I think the deadline is actually stifling discussion here, because there is no time to follow-up on anything so no-one's starting anything. And another deadline no-lynch will not help get activity going at all.

[Mgm]

I haven't seen more than 2-3 players post in each of the previous two real-life days and your response was over 24 hours after the last player's post. For me to even consider an extension I'd need far more discussion. People who talk deserve some extra time to make ends meet. People who stay silent don't.

I'll make you a deal: I'll end day in the late evening tomorrow (Amsterdam time) so you have the most time to get that discussion going.

[Kilroy8675309]

I can see how MoS is in a difficult position: several confirmed (or mostly, in Night's case) townies are calling off the bandwagon of me, but, he has to leave his scum vote on a Town (me) or face death come the deadline. It's definitely a dillemma, Mos: Take your vote off me and hope someone else besides you gets lynched, or leave your vote on me, which can only lead to bad things in the future.

Hmm, what to do, what to do, eh? The difference between us, Sinsy, is that I don't care if I die. If I do, it confirms several people. If I don't, I keep investigating. Not so for you.

[Setael]

Blight had previously been one of the few defenders of Albert, then even here he admits he thinks he's town, but votes him anyway. I to some extent feel that only scum (who knew Albert wasn't one of them) had good reason to defend Albert, and it's redoubled in this case by the fact that he said he thought Albert was town but then voted him anyway.

2 things.
1) The entire time I read the thread I never once thought Albert could possibly be mafia. It seemed very obvious to me that he was Town that was doing some very stupid things, and the wagon on him looked very much like mafia taking advantage of the fact that all the Townies were willing to lynch him because he was being extremely unhelpful and pissing everyone off. So I don't agree that only scum had good reason to defend Albert. I felt the same way Blight did at the time he replaced when I was reading that part of the thread.
2) That being said, I think it's odd that Blight voted for Albert.

The votes still on Kilroy are TSS, Thoth and MOS. This is my proposal: those 3 remove their votes and we give Kilroy one night since tonight he will find out another name. Then most likely he will get killed tonight and your work is done for you, no worries. If he's not killed it will be either because the doc protected him or maybe he really is mafia. He can then tell us the name he was given. If you still suspect him, fine. Lynch him and when he comes up cop at least we'll have one more name cleared than we have now. Frankly, I think the mafia will try to kill him as soon as possible because they can't risk him finding out about them, nor can they risk him confirming more innocents.

Clearly MOS doesn't want to move his vote because he's the main target. What about you other 2? It does not make sense to lynch a claimed cop, any way you slice it. I can see either MoS or Blight, and maybe even Niempie but I think we need to come to an agreement before a deadline hits us and we get a no lynch.

I don't think it's uncalled for to ask for a claim from both MoS and Blight at this point. One of them is likely to sound less reasonable and we can rally on him.

[Sacred]

-

Nightson

9: claimed egyptologist Howard Carter, finder
-

VanDamien

9: claimed one-shot night-ender
-

Raf

9: claimed Anubis, investigation role
-

Nanook/kilroy

8: his claim to be an investigation role is somewhat balanced by Nanook's play: generic posting, didn't read pre-game material (substandard play), continues to support a Yos revival; there are some arguments in favour of believing him (his attitude is not one of them) so a definitive mark is pending
-

Zindaras

7-8: the only spot on his record this game is the claim that the pre-game discussion was not of interest, because I've seen him say quite the opposite in similar circumstances (Saw Mafia, Zindie); other than that, I've seen pro-town behaviour from him, poking and prodding, asking for information, explanation and reasoning, participating in the translation process
-

MoS

6: I think he's torn between lurking/contentless posts and some good posting and involvement; claims to have missed a good deal of the game because of some quickening events and I'm not getting scum vibes from him
-

TSS

5-6: helped out with the translations, was among the people who suggested we wait some more before reviving and showed what I'd call healthy suspicion towards Raf's warning, until the latter claimed; I view all these to be pro-town actions and the only thing that bothers me about him is his case on MoS (doesn't seem to have such a solid base) and some weird voting
-

inHim

5: his pro-action behaviour (pointing out contentless votes, trying to revive discussion) is balanced out by his reasoning+vote on me
-

Thoth

5: what I have on him could lean either way
-

Fonz

4-5: on the plus side, he was the one who came up with the solution to turn Raf into a normal cop and opposed the Albert lynch; on the minus side, at one point he lists 3 people as his suspects: Nanook, YB and TSS; however, I didn't see him do anything about that list, he didn't act on it; the list is just there, for convenience; if I'm wrong and you did do something about it, Fonz, please point it out to me, thanks; in addition, I didn't like his somewhat jumbled reasons for voting me, it looked a bit like he was cracking under pressure after getting into an argument with Zind; the evidence looks to be balanced, although it tends to lean towards the scummy side
-

Pooky/Pinky/Setael

4: he agreed with Raf's warning and opposed a Yos revival from the very beginning, which I marked down as important because people usually aren't sold so easily unless there is some extra information to base that eagerness on; also, I think that his case on MoS is somewhat weak, based on information that can be seen as scummy only if you want to
-

Niempie

3-4: not much in the way of contribution, just repetitions of stuff already said; she thinks that asking for vote-reasoning is scummy and I also don't like the vote she left on me for weak reasons and knowing that she won't be around to retract it if need be
- r

oland/Blight

3: my main points against him: he voted for someone he believed to be townie and stated so; says it's because there's really no one else to go for, although he had previously expressed strong suspicion towards Nanook; choosing between someone you think is town and someone you consider suspicious enough to vote for is a fairly easy decision, if you ask me (voting for someone you think is town just to speed up the lynch and continue with the discussion isn't a good enough excuse in my opinion: if the lynch is to take place, it can take place without your half-hearted vote and townies need to vote who they feel is scum because that's the only way we can put the voting patterns and vote counts to good use);

[Sacred]

Hurray for hitting the wrong key.... it was supposed to be preview, not submit...
Anyway, what I did in the previous post was give players marks from 1 to 10, 1 being the scummiest and 10 the towniest. 5 means undecided. I hope that's a satisfying endeavour for those of you that didn't feel like what I'd posted so far was good enough.

@Kilroy: I suppose there's no point in trying. The fact is that I've said what I had to say and it's there to be read. *shrug*

@Blight: I don't know about the others, but my vote on Albert was following one or two other posts of mine where I was asking him about his lies. So it was half to make him talk and half for his lying.
Zindie quoted the post I meant, where he said that what Albert claimed could have also been a mafia-aligned role.

@inHim: Why are you still voting for me?

[Setael]

MOD: Can we please get a prod on the following players?

Thoth
YogurtBandit
the silent speaker
Niempie
VanDamien
The Fonz
inHimshallibe