Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Dier

Wagon!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Town read on Dwlee for town reading me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In all seriousness though, are you actually town reading both implosion and myself?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You accompanied it with an 'lol', hard to discern if you're joking or being serious. The fact you just mentioned it was 'kind of a joke' means you just answered your own question, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It is?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you're voting Herrcombs...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dwlee is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr already committed a scumtell trying to call someone town. There's no need for the word "honestly" there, it only makes sense from a point where scum is trying to think like town. The word "honestly" implies that he comes from a setting where he was prepared to lie this game, then found a situation where it wasn't necessary. Add to this that he's stepping in to protect someone from an accusation and that little sentence becomes quite damning. Buddying and at the same time showing off his mindset is scummy.

I actually quite like this - I don't think enough people pay attention to word usage/phrases when looking for scum.

Looks like a lot has happened already.
VOTE: mykonian
I just don't get a town vibe from you, myko - let me do a breakdown of your ISO:
8: instead of starting straight away with a RVS, you question the flavor in Keyser's. Not starting with RVS is weird, questioning something as insignificant as the reason for a RVS is weird too. Nothing read-worthy by this point, still.
12 and 16: that's your RVS. A bit convoluted and arbitrary, but hey, that's a RVS.
20: you admit to your vote originally being a joke. That's perfectly normal. But then, you say "lolwut is going on" is a scum slip from herrcombs? I just don't get it.
34: you provoke BBT about not following on your wagon. Now that's just weird: the reasons behind a RVS aren't the kind of thing worth questioning, and that's the second time you do it. Again, not alignment-indicative, but giving me a scum vibe.
37: everyone's favorite post! You answer Dwlee who was saying it was too early to have an actual read, by showing him an "actual" reason for a read - but first, the reasoning behind that read just doesn't hold together (this post has already been shot down for that by Dwlee, herrcombs, Keyser - nothing to add to what they already told), and second, if you actually read Garmr for that, why would you keep your vote on herrcombs? Your vote on herrcombs was originally based on a joke and an ethereal scumslip, so how would that be less scummy than an actual point?

Before anything else, I have a few questions for you: what was the point asking people about RVS? What was herrcombs's scum slip? And also, everything ever said about 37.

This is a bad post. Let's break down your read of mykonian;

8 - Nothing read-worthy. (Null)
12 and 16 - A bit convoluted and arbitrary but that's RVS (Null)
20 - You don't get his 'herrcombs scum slipped'. (Null)
34 - Not alignment indicative but giving you scum vibes (lol what?) (Null)
37 - OK, this one is a valid point as I asked the same thing - I didn't understand why mykonian hadn't voted Garmr when he had reasons to scum read him.

This post was a whole lot of words that really didn't say much - a busy post.

I'm watching you Felissan.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dwlee is probably town. BBT is more weakly town. myko's 37 is sort of just a common phenomenon on this site. I've made pretty much an identical post before.

Hiei is very slightly scummy for their opening post and subsequent reaction, but it's pretty insignificant. I still need to read page 2 more closely because I have to go to class in 1 minute but for now I'm actually going to ask for this wagon:

Unvote

VOTE: Felissan
"I just don't get a townvibe from you" after a vote feels like appeasement + a psychological desire not to commit to the read. I haven't actually read the rest of the post. I will when I can.

Why did you choose Felissan over Hieirama? Also, why did you mention that Hiei is slightly scummy but it's 'insignifcant', if it's insignificant, why mention it?

I don't see how this matters.

You don't see how it matters that you have reasons for scum reading someone but would rather stick to your RVS vote?

Are you serious?

What is the basis for all these DWL townreads I'm seeing (BBT, implosion, Dierfire)? Could someone fill me in?

As annoying as it is, and it ruins my sig, it's based on meta. Look at Dwlee's posting in this newbie game - compare it to this game. They are worlds apart, he was awkward, couldn't scum hunt and none of his posting felt town at all. In fact, he was so bad at being scum that I started to think he was lost town.

This is town Dwlee.

honestly I use that word a lot it features in all my recent games. Also what's this bs about calling someone town. I said I don't see anything scummy yet. You seem like your reaching so have my vote.

VOTE: mycorana

He's reaching...on page 2? No way...

VOTE: Garmr

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oooo, Keyser's voting early.

I wonder what that means.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Pistachion has repeated a lot of my own points in her post.

Not sure if that's intentional?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wanna explain your thought process behind this particular improvement?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That Mykonian wagon is terrible.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Heir wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like this improvement.

What are your thoughts on Garmr?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see, I'm not opposed to a Hieirama wagon but I think Garmr's is much better.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mod, would you mind placing the person with the most votes at the top of the VC please?

Keyser, I agree that Dwlee's vote looks like OMGUS - but it's town OMGUS.

I don't fully understand Dier's vote so I'll wait for his response.

Mod Edit: Sure thing, I'll do that starting from 1.2 on. Will be edited shortly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Going to catch up on this soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Now the pace of this game isn't amazing, but it's now slow either. There are some people with reads and it's going underway. Hier is about to miss the boat, and still doesn't know how to respond properly. Normal town wouldn't care, you just see the last couple of posts and comment on it. So we have someone here who wants to watch which way the wind blows, and as such stands out compared to the tempo of the townies we've seen so far. That's scumtell one.

The second is the list itself. There are two reasons to make lists. One's to get organised and present otherwise cluttered info. The other is to make sure you actually get something posted beyond a oneliner. This is the last. Page 4, too little has happened that commenting to 1 or 2 events wouldn't do. There's no use at all to post that for half of the game, you don't have a read yet. Again, hier's perfectly aware there should be a post from her here. By absence of something comfortable to post about, the safety of a rigid structure is sought and found in posting a list with a little bit non-information about everybody. At least that way you get something on first sight good looking posted. But it makes no sense to do it when we've had barely 2 pages of non rvs posting.

What makes you think this is scum and not newb town?

This is reaching and he has yet to respond to multiple people questioning it.

VOTE: mykonian

Really? He is reaching on page 2? What were you expecting...a watertight case?

This is an alt account, but I've been playing for a little over a month. I've played three games, this is the first one outside RtR.

What made you want to create an alt account so early?

Should I go back to lurking or?

Are you saying you were intentionally lurking?

You know having a lot of content with stretched reads can be a sign of scum trying to hard to be town. So it's not really a weak reason to be voting myko. As we also just came out RVs I don't understand why you would attack a wagon you call null and admit that mykos reasons are stretched.

Firstly, town can try hard. Try harding is not a scum tell and it never will be.

Also attacking a wagon this early is stupid if you don't town read them for multiple reasons. Also they are stretching vote is better than this wagon shit but lol his a null read. Maybe with a bit of pressure you could of had your read on him.

Secondly, this is scum!Garmr trying to insert himself into the game. If I were scum, I would 100% attack Dwlee's read/positioning around Myko here because it's so easy to do.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

snip

VOTE: Hieirama

Umm, I don't know how you're getting a scum read from anything in this post? Why is positive/negative vibes scummy? Why is having only one lean-town read on page 4 scummy?

Why does his reads-list being 'tough' make him scum? Why isn't it newb-town who is struggling to get into the game?

Said the person who posted a carbon copy of 59~

Yeah, I was catching up page-by-page and was pleasantly surprised to see your post the page after.

But I have trouble seeing scum motivation behind that quote I gave earlier:

Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

What is the scum motivation for this? It pretty much just invites/instigates myko to tunnel him forever. It seems way too cocky to reasonably post as scum when myko is the most active poster in the game. I can't imagine him posting this as scum who thinks that it'll get myko off his back. I can't imagine him posting it as scum who is so overconfident that they want to boast. If I see a good justification for scum posting this then I might join the Garmr wagon.

I read it as a soft-claim - both town and scum can do this. I feel like scum are much more likely to say this early doors though as they know people with a few games under their belt may see that as a soft-claim and back off.

UNVOTE: Keyser
Not sure where to put my vote on atm. I think Hiei's posts aren't the best but I'm not getting scum vibes from it. They seem like they're trying to fgure out the game.

Why have you unvoted Keyser? I quite liked your questioning and I agreed that his manipulation of your post was scummy.

@keysor yes I will confirm I am a power role I don't want to say what through.

Yeah, I mean, I saw this coming from a mile away. I think I'm still happy with my vote on Garmr.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tbh you can lynch me I'm not really an important power role just a bullet proof townie I was trying to draw attention to get someone to night kill me with a soft power role claim before but now I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero. Because I didn't think anyone would be that retarded and mentally handicapped to follow with myko because of the word honestly.

Yeah, I don't like this. At the very, very best it's anti-town play but it's most likely coming from scum. There is no town motivation to claiming BP like that - none at all.

Garmr is like 99% town. There's nearly zero reason for him to claim bulletproof townie here as scum. 177-178 is a genuine emotional outburst.

Except for there is? Dwlee gave reasons - I agree somewhat that BP isn't a great claim for scum to make. It's a safe one though - doesn't have to give results and has explanations for why he is alive.

You're 1-shot BP Garmr, right?

I also think I like herrcombs and Dierfire as town.

I'm not seeing the Dier town read - talk to me about it. Everything he is posting feels off to me and I can usually read Dier as town pretty quickly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, yeah, it does.

I mean, if you're going to claim, at least do it properly. X-shot is a favourite among scum fake claims right now on this site so I'm super interested.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tbh, I'm kind of just hoping the vig shoots you so we can find out what's going on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait, how does that work? You're assuming nobody's shot the bp, the doctors are allowed to self target, and there are no vanilla townies left.

Really, this is what has piqued your interest? That was clearly just some bad set-up spec from a newbie - you're trying to make that look scummy.

Pistachion is probably a good lynch as well.

I call bullshit on his mention that he doesn't mind to be lynched: then what was the purpose of a claim there?

BINGO!

Really not a fan of the claim or the weird emotional outburst so early in the game. It's not that intense yet. I will wait and see what happens after his two-day hiatus though before I decide.

Well, that's an awful post.

I can post more. What would you like to discuss?

How about you read the thread and provide something off of your own back? This looks like scum asking for an angle to get into the game.

I've definitely got a scum read on Garmr now, but I'll put it on the back burner for now - I'll wait for it to be really blatant before wanting him dead

How much more blatant do you need it than a 'definite scum read'?

For now, my vote will go somewhere completely different...
VOTE: Hieirama
The wording in some of his posts just has a feel of uneasy scum (constantly insisting on whether his play is scummy or not, worrying too much about not doing enough)
I'd like to put a bit more pressure on him, hence my vote.

I don't like this attack or vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I'm all caught up.

A VC would be really nice right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think I want to lynch inside of Pistachion, Dier and Felissan.

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can I get your thoughts on Dier please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It sounds like you're undecided on Dier.

If we get a wagon forming on him, maybe you will have a chance to develop a better read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I felt like I was borderline policy-lynching him. His claim will sort itself out at some point, if not, we can look at it another time.

I also disliked some of the jumps onto his wagon and I want to have a look at the many people who are flying under the radar.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cool, let's make this happen then.

VOTE: Dier

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Since when were we just lynching him for being incompetent?

You and I both know that claim didn't make his case any better.

I don't know - I just got cold feet about the whole thing. You're right, the claim doesn't make sense - but I also believe Garmr is capable of a much better fake-claim if he were scum.

Ha ha, you think you know me? I think that, of games we've both played Day One, you've voted for me more times than not (although I checked 1669 again, and you came around faster than I remembered).

I think I can read you pretty well, yeah. I usually town read you quite early, we both know this, I can't be bothered to go game searching. This is not town Dier.

Say, why not Lalendra? You had only negative things to say in 293.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Lalendra lynch but I liked their recent posting so they're on the back-burner for a bit.

I also am not a fan of Haschel's vote on Lalendra - can you talk about it Haschel?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thinking about Garmr some more - we have a few options if he is actually BP.

We likely have a vig, there is a SK or we could be in multi-ball. I don't think I have seen a set-up with a BP that isn't included in those three scenarios. Hell, Garmr could be a scum BP for all we know.

I just want to give it time and see how the game progresses and evaluate later on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What are your thoughts on the late jumpers onto the Garmr wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, did you get around to explaining your final scum read?

What are your thoughts on Dier?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I looked back over the Garmr wagon and the only vote I actually have a problem with is Pistachion's. I didn't like Lalendra's vote but she was also first to unvote Garmr and I don't think scum would be likely to jump off the Garmr wagon (this is working on the assumption that Garmr is town of course) at that point.

Garmr, Dier has been fairly non-committal this entire game and that's a worrying sign. Especially given we have had things happen that people should have a solid opinion on. I really would like some pressure on Dier.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Really? I mean, you just questioned my ability to read you and now you've completely 180'ed and said that I can read you pretty well. Not only this, but you're now trying to use this as reasoning for scum reading me...have I got that right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But the joke appeared to continue into the next sentence and that second sentence doesn't read like a joke to me?

You're back pedaling and it's painful to watch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree, my D1 voting is usually erratic as I try to gain and develop reads.

Once I get a scum read though, it doesn't usually move. You can expect to have my vote for a while.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How about you talk about some of your reads?

Who's scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you believe being defensive is a trait reserved exclusively for scum?

Can you explain what makes you think I'm scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, but you're using defensiveness as a reason for reading Hieirama as scum. How does that work?

Why would I move off of Garmr as scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

With regards to Hieirama - Why is it scum concern over town concern?

With regards to myself - are you implying that everyone who is left on the Garmr wagon is town and everyone who jumped off is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If that's not what you're implying then I fail to see how you can justify your scum read on me based on the reasoning that I got off the Garmr wagon. Can you clarify for me?

A VC would be really good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Above reads-list and vote is pretty bad.

Pistachion, why did you include those people only in your reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm happy doing that.

VOTE: Pistachion

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Keyser, did you finish catching up on the whole thread? Last I saw you were only up to p10?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dwlee, you should absolutely vote for Pistachion. We're approaching the point of the game where we need a flip to progress further.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Now that's an interesting kill. For one because I would have guessed someone else to go, for two because implosion was the odd man out of the obvtown group when considering his reads.

Reread a bit and you can disagree with me here, but I don't think implosion was killed for his suspicions. He kept his reads close and given that feli's slot is the one replaced, I don't think that person gets a major say in the NK straight away. He came back on his dier read and anyway that's a common one. I think someone saw a pr tell there or scum had other motives with their kill.

BBT, I want your opinion on this.

I think it kind of makes sense? I don't think there was a single person scum reading implosion so, yeah, killing obvtown makes sense.

Usually, I think the NK on night one points to that persons reads being good - I want to have a look over this and see what implosion's final thoughts/reads were. However, I am acutely aware that there are people in this game who would be well aware of how I would approach the NK so I'm already somewhat hesitant to add any weight to it.

I'm also wondering why you asked me specifically.

VOTE: Dier

This should happen today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, implosion wasn't killed for his reads.

I think that's fairly clear.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, we are.

Do you have any scum reads outside of Hieirama?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Haschel, your very...quiet this game.

Let's talk. Thoughts on Dier and Mykonian?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

EBWOP - You're*

How embarrassing...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have a couple of ideas for why implosion may have been killed but I'm going to keep them close to my chest for the time being.

Mykonian, what are your thoughts outside of Garmr?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr

is probably Town, I think. I definitely don't believe that the use of "honestly" is relevant, and the claim makes less sense from a Mafia player than from a Town player. Still, Mykonian was reading to me as Town as well, so I'd look elsewhere on his wagon for Mafia players.

Mykonian

seems to be stuck in a tunnel, but I'd read him as Town.

Hey Dier, can we go back to these reads please?

Wanna go take a look at that Garmr wagon and tell me your thoughts on it? Who was scum on his wagon?

Why do you think Myko is town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk to me about your thoughts on the kill Myko. If Dier is in your blind spot, why are you doing nothing about it? I'm really not digging your tunnel on Garmr (See what I did there?)

I'm struggling to work out Hieirama - I must have flipped my read on him 8-10 times already.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also Myko, talk to me about 393.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I disagree about Keyser's post - tell me what his reasons are for thinking Pistachion was scum.

Why is it wrong? Who should be worried?

Of course it is - if you're not paying attention to him then you can't get a read. I want you to pay attention to him.

I don't think I am. I think BP is an awful fake-claim for scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Myko, do you think you would still be alive if Garmr was scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Eliminating you gets rid of the biggest pusher of his wagon and someone who was widely town read therefore drawing no attention.

I was simply asking you what you think Keyser was scum reading Pistachion for after reading that post - can you answer it? I don't think you have said enough about the kill - I think you're being too vague and I'm super interested in your thoughts on it.

I agree on Haschel, rereading I realised how little he had actually done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will catch up on this game later today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Continuing my re-read/catch up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

snip

Making note of this - choosing to post a theory post above all else is scummy.

In 418 as well - easy questions to apply pressure on someone who is getting run up and worm your way onto the wagon. Haschel, why did you choose to respond to Pistachion's reads list before anything else?

A few things really pinged me on this page - the back end of the pistachion wagon grew very quickly. I feel very good that we have at least one, maybe two, scum in Keyser, Myko, Dier and Garmr. < This is today's lynch pool.

Keyser, why did you choose to ISO Hieirama in 424 instead of continuing your catch up? Especially an ISO that resulted in a null read - seems strange, like, what was the point of that post?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I fail at catching up.

I really will try to get up to date with this today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And garmr quicklynches. *flips table*

What's stopping you from being proactive TODAY hieirama?

Well, the Day was kind of over already.


That quickhammer though

Neither of you have a problem with any other votes on the wagon? Because there were quite a few bad votes - including my own.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm still having difficulty sorting you out

Why do you think this is? I don't think you've ever shown much difficulty in working me out before.

My only current problem with Garmr / Lalendra is that I feel one of them is scum, but I can't decide which one. Lalendra tried to push the garmr lynch as a policy lynch, which it hasn't been for me the entire game, and so I feel like scum!Lalendra wouldn't try to policy lynch scum!Garmr which would mean only one of them is scum. I'm confident in my garmr vote for now because of that quickhammer which was so fricking scummy. He ended day early without even declaring intent.

Why can't both Lalendra and Garmr be town? Why must ONE be scum? Like, why wouldn't town!Lalendra policy lynch town!Garmr?

I don't know why the quickhammer was scummy and the people who are pushing this seriously need to be looked at. The Day was clearly over.

Lol the day was over people were putting intentions to hammer on pista if you actually think that's scummy hammering that's kinda pathetic.

This.

and the person who was town reading me the most dies. Also what's curious is myko was pushing me all day then votes pista and is now acting like the pista lynch was all my fault lol.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

As a side note, if Garmr flips scum I'm going to hate myself forever. I'm sticking to my guns, and my gut, that he is town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We had like, 2 or 3 irl days left anyway and a L-1. It seemed pretty likely for it to end soon...

What would you have liked to happen in that time? Another flash wagon to give scum a chance to force a claim from somebody else? That doesn't sound like a great option...

And I did not get mad? That line was supposed to be a "oh lol okay then" sort of thing

You're right, you didn't get mad. But you

did

attempt to throw dirt on Garmr's hammer of Pistachion.

The wagon went from L-1 to lynch in only 1.5 IRL days; you don't think something could have happened in double that time?

Again, what would you have liked to see happen? Another flash wagon?

Read my ISO, I think I've been pretty clear about my cases for both of them.

Really? I don't think you have...here is your vote on Dier;
[quote="In post 377, Lalendra"
Oh my god, this exchange bothers me something fierce. This isn't just pressuring anymore.
VOTE: Dierfire[/quote]
I mean, you really didn't mention Dier much before this post so I find it hard to believe you think that one exchange was the most scummy thing to happen in this thread to that point.

I don't get why people don't like how selective pistachi0n's reads were. Simply, he didn't have a read on them, and it can be better to leave them out then to post null fluff. ((I actually made the mistake of posting that kind of fluff earlier, I realize this and I apologize.))
And the lack of content this is a borderline lurking vote...

Hmm... I'm starting to get why people aren't liking Dier...

First part - Pistachion

included

a null read in her reads-list...that's why her selection of reads seemed strange. Why include one null read? Not that it matters now but you see the point.

Second part, I'm confused as to why you're not voting Dier?

I am not at all liking the exchange between melter and garmr. Melter is making valid points, Garmr is making almost unintelligible responses that mostly consist of "NOPE YOUR WroNG LOL". I don't really feel as though melter is misrepresenting what went on with garmr d1, and his responses to melter's points have caused him to officially surpass dier as my top scum read atm. While I didn't have a problem with people voting pistachio per se, I didn't like the quick hammer; yes, there were other people who had declared ITH, which is precisely why you DON'T then hammer the person without saying anything. It was pretty clear that there was a reason that they were waiting to hammer him.
VOTE: garmr

This is bullshit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Vote Count 2.1

[4]

Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, mykonian, Lalendra [L-2]

Just gonna leave this wagon for people to look at.

Really look at it.

Look at the people on it.

Scummy wagon, right? I know I wouldn't want to be a part of that. The only person on that wagon who I would confidently call town is Dwlee. Lalendra's and Mean's votes are pretty bad and I'm really not liking Myko's tunnel.

I'm also kind of surprised Myko wasn't first on the wagon...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I like how lala doesn't even dispute my points against her and instead try to discredit me by using other things not related. She doesn't even bother.

Garmr, can you just talk about why you think Lalendra is scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Or in other words, if I didn't want to lynch garmr, I could very well see myself voting haschel.

I would absolutely join a Haschel wagon - after we have narrowed down the pool from the D1 wagon.

that lynchpool sucks, dude.

Not sure why you are throwing away a day of scumhunting just to limit your lynch to an argument about the speed of a wagon.

It really doesn't. The beginning of that wagon is super town - scum jumped on the back end of it. I believe Garmr is likely town, which means it's between you, Dier or Keyser for today's lynch. I like Dier to eat rope the most.

"This is today's lynch pool"

- I will flag that line as scummy. Why are you lining-up today's lynch-pool based on the D1 miss-lynch wagon?

It's either a lazy town, or lazy scum suggestion.

Why do you think the other 2 votes on that wagon had 'town-motivation' and possibly up to 2 of those 4 votes you highlighted had 'scum-motivation'?

Timing. See above - scum joined that wagon late on and I don't believe it was an all-town wagon.

I had a couple of other issues with bbt as well, but a quick meta check does look good for him. Regardless seems like something for lylo give or take. There are enough other candidates.

It does? What meta did you check and what problems did you have?

It's true that garmr has been my top suspect for the whole game, but he's hardly been my only one. I've voiced suspicions of other people and nuanced why they would be scum. Also found and called a couple of people town.

Except, you've only really pushed Garmr - I think you made a brief push on Hieirama early game as well but that's about it. Thinking about it though as I'm writing this I can see where you're coming from and I think I like you for town again.

Your not the vigilante then? I thought you crumbed shooting me and you were hinting at acknowledging me as town when you entranced confirming i am indeed bulletproof that's why I changed my read on you to town.

Nope, no vig here. I wouldn't have shot you even if I was the vig because confirming your BP in no way confirms you as town and doesn't serve much of a purpose.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

haschel is a wagon which is unlikely to take off today. I see you have been thinking about lalendra through so care to join me on lalendra wagon?

Haschel is a better option than Lalendra IMO, not by much, but I see Dier joined the Lalendra wagon and that makes me uncomfortable.

Can we just make the observation that hier argues from the point where she already knows garmr is town, then finds the arguments to go with it? After that little has to be said there, I think.

I know it's scummy, I know it should get lynched, I don't know how someone got to play this game and not avoid it as a tell, I don't understand why it is happening.

I agree with this so I have to ask - WHAT THE FUCK ARE STILL DOING PUSHING GARMR IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE CASE?????? Like, you're basically saying 'I think Hieirama is scum who knows Garmr is town, so I'm going to lynch Garmr because I'm scum reading him and then if he flips town I'm going to lynch Hieirama because he clearly knew Garmr was town before we lynched him.' Seriously, what the fuck dude?

VC post.

Nice.

If he flips town I'll hate you as well. Your gut is give or take the fact that he gets pushed so hard.

Which makes this day pretty awkward tbf. Haschel isn't here, you and hier want to believe that garmr isn't a bad boy after all.

But fair enough, you dislike feli/mean (yer wrong) and me, so that wagon is bad.

How about lalendras then? And the no lynch bench isn't looking pretty either.

No, my gut is his claim, followed by his response to being pushed - that just doesn't come from scum. Neither does the way he hammered Pistachion, I just don't see scum!Garmr and I will be thoroughly surprised if he flips red at any point in this game.

I think Haschel and Dier are fine, fine lynch choices. Especially Dier - that D1 wagon needs to be narrowed down.

See above for Lalendra - I was actually contemplating voting her and then Dier joined which made me really want to back the fuck off it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm finally caught up - I think we need to lynch one of Haschel or Dier today and I have a strong preference for Dier.

Would also lynch Keyser.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK firstly, I have gave reasons for why Dier is scum. Which is why he's my favourite.

I have also expressed concerns over Haschel - he is very quiet and I'm not seeing a lot of scum hunting from him. I do think he is picking easy fights/easy options to get himself into the game but some of this contradicts my reads and so I'm not as confident in pushing it.

Keyser, you're right, there isn't anything overtly scummy from him but there isn't anything town either. Like, everything he says is straight down the middle, 50/50, sit on a big fat fucking fence. 'This could be town and this could be scum so that means my read is null/slight scum lean/slight town lean etc etc. It's very difficult to understand where he is at in the game.

I realise that Lalendra and Haschel were not on the wagon - but they're both scummy and good lynch options. Haschel first because Dier joined the Lalendra wagon when it was in the ascendancy and, you know, he's scum.

I joined the Pistachion wagon - I hardly 'got it'. Had I 'got it' Dier would be sitting in the dead thread like 'Man, BBT can read me really well. What a guy'.

I don't mind taking the credit for killing the Garmr wagon - it was a bad wagon. It still is a bad wagon and your tunneling despite everything else going on is frustrating. It doesn't matter that you explained your Hiei read, it doesn't make sense given your position on both Garmr and Hieirama.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will continue to push for Dier.

Thanks for the offer though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My lynch preference would be Dier > Haschel > Lalendra. I liked your case and I agree that Lalendra is scummy, I just really don't like that Dier joined that wagon when he did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can assure you I'm not moving off of Dier.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You wanna explain that?

If you wanna come at me. Do it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prod dodge.

Will be here later today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so are we lynching Dier yet?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We're not lynching a claimed Doc - that shit will sort itself out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Dier, or Haschel, are far better options.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prod dodge.

Mykonian, have you decided if I'm scum yet?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We're gonna lynch Dier.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will have time for this over the week-end.

I can't wait to find out why the fuck we're lynching a claimed Doc.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll be on it as priority tomorrow morning then (approx 15 hours time)

Lynching Doc seems bad though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I realise that Doc is prob the standard scum claim.

But like, why today?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just don't think it's the best play for today - that shit sorts itself out at some point. If it doesn't, we sort it out at a later time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't understand why a Haschel wagon hasn't taken off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not voting a Doc.

VOTE: Haschel

Didn't realise a Hashcel wagon HAD taken off. That is 100% today's lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, it hasn't. I saw 4 on the VC but he only has 2 votes...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That Lalendra wagon has at LEAST one scum on, probably two.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, don't be bad. Lynching a Doc today is stupid - let it sort itself out.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Look Garmr, you must be able to see it's anti-town to lynch a claimed Doc today? Especially when nobody has even hinted at a CC.

It's a poor play, if you're town, you need to reconsider. If she does flip Doc, you're getting lynched next. Haschel is a fine, fine lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

so herr didn't want to vote a bulletproof, has no issue sitting behind a doc lynch.

this game.

Yeah. This.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, lynching Doc is bad. Look at the company on your wagon - are you happy with it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lynching an inactive (who is scummy and has done very little in terms of contributing and scum hunting) is a much better choice than lynching an UnCC'ed Doc.

PEdit - Really? Haschel? Dier? Wow...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dwlee you need to use your vote.

Place it on Haschel please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think you're suffering from some conf bias with Myko because you dislikes his push on you - I have seem some stuff that I don't like from Myko but he isn't the scummiest player in this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hammer please Garmr.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, please. Lynching Doc is super bad, let's get on with lynching scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I won't if we end up no lynching.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but, Lalendra has claimed Doc and so that's a really bad wagon.

Did Lalendra say who she protected night one?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's pretty shitty if you replace out.

She didn't say who she protected? Has she claimed it afterwards?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, well, that doesn't make sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Has she been asked for it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lalendra's latest posts just don't read as scum to me.

Haschel is today's lynch. 100%.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I know they don't...did anyone ask her to say who she protected?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, well she really should have claimed (and should still claim) who she protected N1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I could see someone protecting Myko. That makes plenty of sense to me.

Dier, why you voting Lalendra?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Anything specific?

Don't you think lynching an unCC'ed Doc is risky?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would she? I agree that it seems strange to have a BP & Doc - but it's perfectly plausible if we also have a vig.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Some vigs don't shoot N1. In fact, a lot of vigs don't shoot N1.

What do you think it means that she didn't mention Haschel's vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Unofficial VC

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[4] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee [L-2]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[1] Dierfire - Hieirama [L-5]

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Holy shit, this is one hell of a twilight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's fine Garmr, I will accept responsibility if Haschel flips town - but only if Lalendra is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm always happy to be obvious town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

An alt?