Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[implosion]

VOTE: Dierfire

[implosion]

Looks like a Dierfire + Hieirama scumteam. Now if only we can figure out the third...

[implosion]

Dwlee is probably town. BBT is more weakly town. myko's 37 is sort of just a common phenomenon on this site. I've made pretty much an identical post before.

Hiei is very slightly scummy for their opening post and subsequent reaction, but it's pretty insignificant. I still need to read page 2 more closely because I have to go to class in 1 minute but for now I'm actually going to ask for this wagon:

Unvote

VOTE: Felissan
"I just don't get a townvibe from you" after a vote feels like appeasement + a psychological desire not to commit to the read. I haven't actually read the rest of the post. I will when I can.

[implosion]

I really don't see any reason at all to care about myko vs Dwlee. It seems unproductive.
Anyway, let's actually look at the points in this post:

Looks like a lot has happened already.
VOTE: mykonian
I just don't get a town vibe from you, myko - let me do a breakdown of your ISO:
8: instead of starting straight away with a RVS, you question the flavor in Keyser's. Not starting with RVS is weird, questioning something as insignificant as the reason for a RVS is weird too. Nothing read-worthy by this point, still.
12 and 16: that's your RVS. A bit convoluted and arbitrary, but hey, that's a RVS.
20: you admit to your vote originally being a joke. That's perfectly normal. But then, you say "lolwut is going on" is a scum slip from herrcombs? I just don't get it.
34: you provoke BBT about not following on your wagon. Now that's just weird: the reasons behind a RVS aren't the kind of thing worth questioning, and that's the second time you do it. Again, not alignment-indicative, but giving me a scum vibe.
37: everyone's favorite post! You answer Dwlee who was saying it was too early to have an actual read, by showing him an "actual" reason for a read - but first, the reasoning behind that read just doesn't hold together (this post has already been shot down for that by Dwlee, herrcombs, Keyser - nothing to add to what they already told), and second, if you actually read Garmr for that, why would you keep your vote on herrcombs? Your vote on herrcombs was originally based on a joke and an ethereal scumslip, so how would that be less scummy than an actual point?

Before anything else, I have a few questions for you: what was the point asking people about RVS? What was herrcombs's scum slip? And also, everything ever said about 37.

8: "weird, but not a scumtell"
12 and 16: purely information, no analysis.
20: "I just don't get it."
34: "Just weird, not alignment-indicative, but giving me a scum vibe."
37/the rest of it: some basic questions to myko.

The analysis of 34 is so hedgey. Not indicative, but giving a scum vibe anyway? If something is giving you a scumvibe then by definition you think it's indicative that the person in question is scum. There's so much description of myko's play as weird rather than scummy. No analysis in that post seems worthy of justifying a myko vote to me, it just feels opportunistic. Plus there's what I already said about the "i don't get a townvibe" part.

[implosion]

Basically it feels like scum who wanted to vote myko and was justifying it after the fact of deciding that.

[implosion]

Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

This feels town.

[implosion]

As does Dwlee's indictment of the myko wagon.

[implosion]

Pistachion has repeated a lot of my own points in her post.

Not sure if that's intentional?

Said the person who posted a carbon copy of 59~
Anyway, re: your question about Hiei, I had called them scum in an overblown way on the first page and they had reacted to that, so I wanted to mention what I thought of the reaction. I still don't have any strong opinion on Hiei.

I don't have any explicit feelings about the myko wagon because I don't actually remember any reasons being given for it that stuck in my head, which sort of implicitly means it's pretty bad.

With regards to Garmr, I agree that 24 is scummy at this point. I agree 72 feels awkwardly defensive, as if he's semi-automatically voting without thinking. But I have trouble seeing scum motivation behind that quote I gave earlier:

Also you should quit before you burn youself if there's a wagon between you and me your the one getting lynched.

What is the scum motivation for this? It pretty much just invites/instigates myko to tunnel him forever. It seems way too cocky to reasonably post as scum when myko is the most active poster in the game. I can't imagine him posting this as scum who thinks that it'll get myko off his back. I can't imagine him posting it as scum who is so overconfident that they want to boast. If I see a good justification for scum posting this then I might join the Garmr wagon.

[implosion]

What is the scum motivation for this? It pretty much just invites/instigates myko to tunnel him forever. It seems way too cocky to reasonably post as scum when myko is the most active poster in the game. I can't imagine him posting this as scum who thinks that it'll get myko off his back. I can't imagine him posting it as scum who is so overconfident that they want to boast. If I see a good justification for scum posting this then I might join the Garmr wagon.

Momentum was decently against me at that point (decently quick wagon, 4 votes), and such wagons have gotten steam before, could have happened here. Dwlee pushes against it and by 120/121 from bbt, momentum is lost. I am pretty sure that sentence is garmr thinking he's in the winning position as long as I push against him, since people voted me for it. A high postcount isn't always beneficial for one's survival. So don't think garmr thinks he can get me off him, I think he believes he can get me lynched.

Eh. Still doesn't seem too likely to me. I can see it as possible but I don't feel like scum-Garmr would be that concerned with making a post like that. His claim is also town.

Also don't think Hiei is scum.

I made that readlist, you're right, to contribute a little bit more than a one-liner. I'm not sure how that's scum-oriented?
I'm not being helpful if all my opinions are all jumbled in my head. So why not share it, even if it's minor?
This is the fastest pace game I've played in. I do hate missing the boat.

This blurb felt genuine to me. It feels defensive in a genuine way. At the very least it assuages me of any feeling that Hiei's reads list was particularly scummy. Doing something like that in a fast-paced game to try to keep up as town seems reasonable to me. The "why an I not surprised at my wagon" line also felt not like something scum is likely to say.

[implosion]

Garmr is like 99% town. There's nearly zero reason for him to claim bulletproof townie here as scum. 177-178 is a genuine emotional outburst.

[implosion]

And I'm gonna be pretty mad if he gets lynched. I'm pretty rarely mad when townies who I townread are lynched but this is really really obvious. The scum motivation for making that claim by Garmr is to try to dissuade the growing suspicion towards him. There's no way that he would think claiming bulletproof townie would be a good way to do that as scum on page 8. He'd also have much less of a reason to be so emotionally charged as scum unless he's faking the emotion which is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

[implosion]

And I'm gonna be pretty mad if he gets lynched. I'm pretty rarely mad when townies who I townread are lynched but this is really really obvious. The scum motivation for making that claim by Garmr is to try to dissuade the growing suspicion towards him. There's no way that he would think claiming bulletproof townie would be a good way to do that as scum on page 8. He'd also have much less of a reason to be so emotionally charged as scum unless he's faking the emotion which is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

"Why aren't you dying?" - Bulletproof townie.
"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

And on my home site there was someone who faked this huge emotional outburst and acted super pissed to get a win. Emotions can be faked over the internet.

Don't get the first half of this post. As for the second half every case of something like this is different; my read of Garmr's emotional outburst as genuine is informed by a lot of things: his play so far, how early it is in the game, mykonian's general attitude, the way that Garmr posted it, my pre-existing townread on Garmr (which, by the way, is bolstered by the claim because of the nature of what I was townreading him for).

[implosion]

I think my main interests in scumhunting at the moment lie in Felissan and pistachi0n. I think my working theory about this game is that the game so far has been largely driven by a pair of town wagons (Garmr, myko) and that there's a good chance of finding scum on both wagons. I like pistachi0n as scum a bit more than bbt. The vote's reasoning is a bit weird (not being able to see a reason when his post was right after mine decrying two people as scum).

[implosion]

I also think I like herrcombs and Dierfire as town.

[implosion]

And I'm gonna be pretty mad if he gets lynched. I'm pretty rarely mad when townies who I townread are lynched but this is really really obvious. The scum motivation for making that claim by Garmr is to try to dissuade the growing suspicion towards him. There's no way that he would think claiming bulletproof townie would be a good way to do that as scum on page 8. He'd also have much less of a reason to be so emotionally charged as scum unless he's faking the emotion which is possible but seems very unlikely to me.

"Why aren't you dying?" - Bulletproof townie.
"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

And on my home site there was someone who faked this huge emotional outburst and acted super pissed to get a win. Emotions can be faked over the internet.

Don't get the first half of this post. As for the second half every case of something like this is different; my read of Garmr's emotional outburst as genuine is informed by a lot of things: his play so far, how early it is in the game, mykonian's general attitude, the way that Garmr posted it, my pre-existing townread on Garmr (which, by the way, is bolstered by the claim because of the nature of what I was townreading him for).

The first half of my post was explaining why it's beneficial for him to claim bulletproof townie as scum.
I don't understand how straight out claiming a power role without it being necessary is townie.

There's an important distinction between town and pro-town. Claiming bp townie here is distinctively not pro-town but if the town motivation for it is more likely than the scum motivation it should still be viewed as a towntell and I think that's the case. And as for your quotes... giving an excuse for not dying could be a reason to claim bulletproof townie (although I'd contend not this early). But the second...

"Why shouldn't we lynch you?" - I'm important cause I'm bulletproof.

Did you read his post? In the same post that he claimed bulletproof he explicitly said he didn't mind being lynched because he didn't see bp townie as an important role.

[implosion]

To me claiming a power role without prompt is scummy. Apparently we disagree on that, though.
And not minding being lynched isn't a town tell. People don't seem to understand scum can fake emotions and frustration.

The thing about not minding being lynched is that it explicitly contradicts your point that he could be claiming bulletproof townie so as to be able to say that he shouldn't be lynched because he's a power role. Which is observably false.

As for unprompted claiming: I think me seeing it as a towntell is above all else a matter of empirically seeing it come from town. The only other case that comes to mind is my last game where a town rolecop unpromptedly claimed on day two. That said, again, every case is different... but honestly (lol), this case is just really really obvious. Garmr is really obviously town. I'm going to be *extremely* surprised if I'm wrong on that read.

[implosion]

Did you read his post? In the same post that he claimed bulletproof he explicitly said he didn't mind being lynched because he didn't see bp townie as an important role.

That's what everybody says.

This line was a very specific response to a very specific point raised by Dwlee.

[implosion]

Specifically.

Dwlee said that Garmr was going to use the bp townie claim to disincentivize lynching him.

Which is impossible after he said he didn't care and that it was a weak role in the same point.

[implosion]

I'm particularly interested to see mykonian's take on the claim, incidentally.

[implosion]

Doctors typically can't self-target on mafiascum.

Regardless: what's important isn't whether or not bp is a useful role; it's Garmr's perception of it. Garmr clearly perceives it to not be a useful role based on the way he claimed, unless he's lying about that, and that would be an extremely strange thing to lie about as scum.

[implosion]

as Hieirama pointed out, being blatantly anti-town is almost as bad as being scum.

As Haschel pointed out this is a bad philosophy (or at least I agree with him, I've seen some players give arguments for PLing on day one, but I think they're bad). Being anti-town may be "as bad as being scum" (although I'm not quite sure what that means) but that doesn't mean wasting a mislynch on someone you think is town (especially a power role) is going to further the town win condition.

Implosion – Why did you think Dierfire + Hieirama scum team in 23?

It was mostly sarcastic but it did have a nonzero basis. I voted Dierfire originally because he ignored a naked vote on him, and then Hiei said "there goes the wagon" when there were 2 people with 2 votes and 1 with 3 which seemed nominally odd.

[implosion]

He doesn't have any arguments and his little mind has no other ways of dealing with this than to become personal.

You know, you responding by insulting him doesn't exactly give you the moral high ground.

[implosion]

Yeah, you can actually ignore my townread on Dier, I had a reason which I have just now determined to be me being stupid and looking for townreads too hard. I'm actually okay with a wagon/lynch on any of BBT's 3. The townread was based entirely on a gut first impression of 146 and in retrospect that post makes more than plenty of sense as scum.

[implosion]

Unvote

VOTE: Dier

[implosion]

I like Dier's interaction with BBT on the previous page.

I might be fairly low-activity this week, we'll see. The beginning of the week is the hump this semester and this week I have a visit to the East coast from Thursday to Saturday which I might as well be V/LA for because I'm almost certainly going to be too tired to want to do anything in this game.

[implosion]

Unvote

VOTE: pistachi0n

[implosion]

Also not a massive fan of the Lalendra wagon but I can't remember why at the moment - someone should hold me to justifying that, though. Re evaluating her/making sure that I actually did have good reason to think she was town (iirc it was something in her catchup post) is moderately high on my priority list.

[implosion]

If you are in fact town I'd appreciate more input than "I'm an easy mislynch, look at my wagon tomorrow."

Who specifically on your wagon is scum? Why?