Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[VampanezeHunter]

Sh** we lost a doctor! Oh well random

Vote:d3sisted

[Antipathy]

Doctor gone on first day? Jeez.

Vote: SurveySays

, Calculator rolled an 8.

[Sonicpulsar]

yes it was. and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.
ah well, not complaining. lol

BM

Arrogance, and on page 1 no less. Wow.

I'll wait for more players to check in before I say too much else. Someone will inevitably come out annoying or stupid and we can go from there.

[d3sisted]

d3sisted was in 1 completed game with =Confused=; they were both townies and d3sisted posted some complimentary things about =Confused=, so it's fair to say he was impressed with =Confused='s game and might consider him a threat.

FOS: d3sisted

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

If you're talking about 436 (which you must be, because it's the only game I've actaully completed (well I've done 2 but I got NKed N0 in one of them)) you're stretching it a bit.

Vote: Vampaneze Hunter

I frown upon FoS-Vote sequences.

[VampanezeHunter]

Um...I didn't FoS-Vote you if that's what you are saying. If not it was just a random vote! =)

[Gorgon]

Um ok ...

Vote: d3sisted

Putting the pressure on ...

Not paying attention like that when there's only a little over one page to read doesn't look too good.

[Gorgon]

Let's do it the right way this time ... just double-checked the rules and I see that an Unvote is mandatory.

Unvote

Vote: d3sisted

[YYCguy]

This is what I get for horribly sleeping in .. I wake up and there's two pages of discussion here already . On with some random voting, I guess ..

Original Roll String: 1d10

1 10-Sided Dice: (9) = 9

[YYCguy]

vote: d3sisted

[d3sisted]

FoS-Vote = HangEmHigh FoS, VampanezeHunter Votes.
While we're on the topic, FoS-Vote-Vote would be if HEH followed VH by upgrading to a vote. At any rate, it usually comes up as a null-tell anyway, so I bother with it past the starting phase.

That said, Gorgon you were pretty rash in voting without so much as asking for clarification. I would've at least expected a "VH didn't FoS you" much like VH asked.

Unvote; Vote: Gorgon

[SPAG]

Vote Count

Mr. PIGG 1 = Sonicpulsar
Battle Mage 1 = Hang 'em High
Gorgon 2 = Battle Mage, d3sisted
Hang 'em High 1 = distad
d3sisted 3 = Vampeneze Hunter, Gorgon, YYCguy
SurveySays 1 = Antipathy
Not Voting 1 = Mr. PiGG

With 11 alive, its 6 for a majority, and 4 for a deadline majority

[Battle Mage]

yes it was. and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.
ah well, not complaining. lol

BM

Arrogance, and on page 1 no less. Wow.

I'll wait for more players to check in before I say too much else. Someone will inevitably come out annoying or stupid and we can go from there.

lol its hardly arrogance. From what i gather, the vast majority of the players here are fairly new to the site. I know from when i was new, i generally had a tendency to get rid of the most experienced players at night, simply because they might be more of a threat during the day.
Having said that, i'd hope a half decent Doc would realise this, and probably protect the more experienced players.

Unvote, Vote: HeH

He's not giving me the best vibe atm, primarily his Post 20.

[Gorgon]

That said, Gorgon you were pretty rash in voting without so much as asking for clarification. I would've at least expected a "VH didn't FoS you" much like VH asked.

Meh. Yeah, I see that I was rash in jumping onto VampanezeHunter's interpretation of your words; that you were saying that he had done a FoS-Vote. But chill, it was only a second vote on you. I do find it interesting that you chose to pull an OMGUS, but fair's fair I guess. Your reason is about as warranted as mine.

By a fluke, you have a bit of a bandwagon on you now. Not sure it's justified, but I see no particular reason to change my vote just yet ...

lol its hardly arrogance. From what i gather, the vast majority of the players here are fairly new to the site. I know from when i was new, i generally had a tendency to get rid of the most experienced players at night, simply because they might be more of a threat during the day.

Point taken and agreed with.

Having said that, i'd hope a half decent Doc would realise this, and probably protect the more experienced players.

Not sure how this sits with me. You're pretty much asking the Doc (if there's one left; or a Nurse ... how reasonable is it to assume that's likely btw?) to protect you here. If you're scum, this would be great for explaining why you'll still be alive tomorrow (and don't get lynched, of course): "Hey, the Doc/Nurse must have taken my hint and protected me!"

Unvote, Vote: HeH

He's not giving me the best vibe atm, primarily his Post 20.

I agree he was stretching it with the d3sisted / =Confused= connection, but he was following a train of thought started by you yourself ...

[Battle Mage]

thats a nice idea, but unfortunately its WIFOM. Besides, the Doc is DEAD. In my opinion it is fairly unlikely that we have another protection role, and whilst it is possible, i certainly wouldnt go as far as to request protection. lol

You are sort of right though, in that, if i survive to say, Day 3, you probably should be suspicious. As a rule, i survive alot longer as scum than as town, because for some reason, people just fail at reading me. Generally, if i look really scummy, i am town, and if my play is pretty clean, i'm probably scum.

With reference to my vote on HeH, i meant the last paragraph of post 20. lol

BM

Having said that, i'd hope a half decent Doc would realise this, and probably protect the more experienced players.

Not sure how this sits with me. You're pretty much asking the Doc (if there's one left; or a Nurse ... how reasonable is it to assume that's likely btw?) to protect you here. If you're scum, this would be great for explaining why you'll still be alive tomorrow (and don't get lynched, of course): "Hey, the Doc/Nurse must have taken my hint and protected me!"

Unvote, Vote: HeH

He's not giving me the best vibe atm, primarily his Post 20.

I agree he was stretching it with the d3sisted / =Confused= connection, but he was following a train of thought started by you yourself ...

[Hang 'em High]

With reference to my vote on HeH, i meant the last paragraph of post 20. lol

For reference, here is the paragraph being refered to:

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

I assume your vote on me is just OMGUS, but if you really think my post is scummy I'd love to hear why.

[d3sisted]

This is what I get for horribly sleeping in .. I wake up and there's two pages of discussion here already . On with some random voting, I guess ..

Original Roll String: 1d10 (STATIC)

1 10-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

vote: d3sisted

Wait a second, you're 3 and I'm 4 on the list. How does that work?
If you rolled a 4, would you still have voted for me? If that's the case, I am twice as likely as anyone else to get selected on your die.

[Battle Mage]

With reference to my vote on HeH, i meant the last paragraph of post 20. lol

For reference, here is the paragraph being refered to:

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

I assume your vote on me is just OMGUS, but if you really think my post is scummy I'd love to hear why.

Its pretty obvious really. The number of people who came out and said 'ooh BM is still alive, he must be scum', is quite alarming. It suggests that last night, at least one mafioso mentioned killing me as a possibility. I'm going to take a guess that the reason i wasnt killed was because some bright spark said that i would probably have NK protection, and so the mafia took a shot at a random player instead.
However, you are using the WIFOM argument, that i have not been NKed, as a reason to kill me, which is inherently scummy. I am sure that it is only Mafia who would take such a stance. Guess what-i don't control who gets NKed. The reason i am still alive, could well be that the mafia think they can lynch me, and in my mind, you could be a member of that mafia.

BM

[distad]

This is what I get for horribly sleeping in .. I wake up and there's two pages of discussion here already . On with some random voting, I guess ..

Original Roll String: 1d10 (STATIC)

1 10-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

vote: d3sisted

Wait a second, you're 3 and I'm 4 on the list. How does that work?
If you rolled a 4, would you still have voted for me? If that's the case, I am twice as likely as anyone else to get selected on your die.

Not correct. YYC has correctly worked around my biggest pet peeve on this site. People routinely roll the dice with the number alive. But that allows it to end up on yourself, which is fruitless.

However, with 11 alive, he rolled a

10-sided

die.

Pretty quick to jump, though, eh? It will remain noted...

[Hang 'em High]

However, you are using the WIFOM argument, that i have not been NKed, as a reason to kill me, which is inherently scummy.

Wow, you've totally overstated what I said, BM. Here is my exact quote:

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

A "little suspicious" is a far cry trying to kill you. I didn't vote for you -- I didn't even FoS you -- let alone call for your lynching. I just stated it was a little suspicious that you weren't NKed on N0, something you agree with.

and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.

So, you thought you would be the target. I agreed and said that your survival was "a little suspicious". You then took "a little suspicious" and turned it into me calling for you to be lynched. Then you said that "only Mafia would take such a stance." Basically, you put words into my mouth and then used those words to accuse me of being scum. At best that seems like an OMGUSsy overreaction -- at worst it could mean you're scum trying to set me up by misrepresenting what I actually said. I don't know which it is, but IGMEOY.

[Hang 'em High]

I didn't vote for you

EBWOP: Actually I did vote for Battle Mage on page 1, but that was a random vote that had nothing to do with the current discussion. Just wanted to make that clear.

[YYCguy]

Wait a second, you're 3 and I'm 4 on the list. How does that work?
If you rolled a 4, would you still have voted for me? If that's the case, I am twice as likely as anyone else to get selected on your die.

11 alive, and I have a policy against voting to kill myself . So I rolled a 10-sided die with the intention of skipping over my own name. If I rolled a 4, I would've voted for whoever's after you on the list.

This whole discussion about the night kill doesn't really sit well with me. It's all very WIFOM. Reading through some of the previous posts, though, post 20, from Hang 'em High, is bothering me:

d3sisted was in 1 completed game with =Confused=; they were both townies and d3sisted posted some complimentary things about =Confused=, so it's fair to say he was impressed with =Confused='s game and might consider him a threat.

Feels like a

really

weak attempt at drawing suspicion to d3sisted. I don't think the killing of =Confused= was a matter of removing a threatening player.

Not

killing a more recognized player may have been a strategic move but that gets into the messy WIFOM territory.

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

This sort of point bothers me. Maybe Battle Mage is alive because he's scum. Maybe he's alive because the scum think he's good enough at getting himself lynched, anyway. Or maybe he's alive because the scum want to be able to make this sort of argument about how he might be scum because he's still alive.

unvote

vote: Hang 'em High

It's not much, right now, but it's better than a dice roll.

[Hang 'em High]

This whole discussion about the night kill doesn't really sit well with me. It's all very WIFOM. Reading through some of the previous posts, though, post 20, from Hang 'em High, is bothering me:

d3sisted was in 1 completed game with =Confused=; they were both townies and d3sisted posted some complimentary things about =Confused=, so it's fair to say he was impressed with =Confused='s game and might consider him a threat.

Feels like a

really

weak attempt at drawing suspicion to d3sisted. I don't think the killing of =Confused= was a matter of removing a threatening player.

Not

killing a more recognized player may have been a strategic move but that gets into the messy WIFOM territory.

I opened up this possibility in response to the following question raised by Battle Mage:

has anyone here ever played with 'Confused' before?

And his later clarification:

my reason for asking about Confused, was simply that in a game like this, he seems a peculiar N0 kill, unless there was perhaps a grudge involved, or somebody had played with him before, and knew him to be a potent player.

So, following BM's lead, I did some metagaming and discovered that d3sisted was in a previous game with =Confused= and specifically complimented her ability. Therefore, following BM's logic, it is possible that since d3sisted considered =Confused= a potent player he targeted her for a night kill. I agree that this is not very compelling evidence against d3sisted, which is why I didn't vote for him. But I do think that BM's question was worth pursuing, so I did.

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

This sort of point bothers me. Maybe Battle Mage is alive because he's scum. Maybe he's alive because the scum think he's good enough at getting himself lynched, anyway. Or maybe he's alive because the scum want to be able to make this sort of argument about how he might be scum because he's still alive.

I addressed this more fully in post 43, but let me be clear -- I don't think BM's survival means he's scum, since there are many possible reasons he wasn't targeting. However, I think (and BM even agrees) that he was the most likely N0 target, so I do think it's a

little

suspicious that he wasn't targeted N0. Not worth making a big deal over yet, but something to keep in mind for later on.

[Gorgon]

I agree. Too much is being made out of the scums' NK choice ... at this stage in the game, at least. It might be useful later, depending on what happens, but it's peripheral at the moment. Right now, we just can't be sure. As the days drag on, we might begin to see a pattern in the choices, but making a big deal out a single choice is fruitless, IMHO.

But this discussion still has raised some interesting food for thought ...

The number of people who came out and said 'ooh BM is still alive, he must be scum', is quite alarming

This bothers me a bit. No one has come out and jumped to the conclusion that you must be scum, because you're still alive. There has only been a pondering over this fact ... granted, a possibility that has been mentioned is that you are scum, but I think you're making too much out of it, especially since you yourself say that you'd be a likely, obvious target for a first kill. Looking at the profiles of all the other player and seeing that all the other players have more or less considerably less experience than you is what led me to acknowledge this.

Anyway, what 'number of people' are you talking about? The only people I have seen pondering why you didn't get NK'd are HeH, myself, and

you

.

By the way, Mr.PIGG still hasn't shown his face. This bothers me ... as well as the fact that quite a few players haven't said anything for a while now. It would be very interesting to see what they have to say about the discussion so far.

[Battle Mage]

i think we have both overstated each other. I am voting for you, but that isnt necessarily a sign that i want you lynched today. Its simply that, atm, you are my top suspect. fyi, i didnt consider your comment to be an outright attempt to get me lynched-it was far more subtle. What i did consider it, is a subtle attempt to cast some doubt upon me.

However, on the up side, i am very impressed with what you seem to found with regard to Desisted. If you could post a link to where he complimented Confused, that'd be great.

in the meantime,

FoS: Desisted

also, townie points go to YYC Guy for managing to say what i am thinking, much more clearer than i managed. lol

BM

However, you are using the WIFOM argument, that i have not been NKed, as a reason to kill me, which is inherently scummy.

Wow, you've totally overstated what I said, BM. Here is my exact quote:

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

A "little suspicious" is a far cry trying to kill you. I didn't vote for you -- I didn't even FoS you -- let alone call for your lynching. I just stated it was a little suspicious that you weren't NKed on N0, something you agree with.

and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.

So, you thought you would be the target. I agreed and said that your survival was "a little suspicious". You then took "a little suspicious" and turned it into me calling for you to be lynched. Then you said that "only Mafia would take such a stance." Basically, you put words into my mouth and then used those words to accuse me of being scum. At best that seems like an OMGUSsy overreaction -- at worst it could mean you're scum trying to set me up by misrepresenting what I actually said. I don't know which it is, but IGMEOY.

[Hang 'em High]

If you could post a link to where he complimented Confused, that'd be great.

Here's the link: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=800

The post in question is #805. I don't think we should read too much into it, it's just something that might become valuable later on if other evidence comes to light.