Open Countdown! Mini 487! GAME OVER!

[Raffles]

Wow... currently all frequent posters have their reasons for being scummy that I don't know who to go for.

So in reverse order of posts;

MGM: What is wrong with harrassing ANYONE (note: maybe apart from a confirmed innocent) in a mafia game? It's a way to get them talk, and I sure gained a lot more insight on kinetic than I had before. Now I've been under a similar attack before, where people starts accusing others on the assumption of me being a scum (werewolves vs. mafia redux). But this doesn't mean we should stop grilling from any other angle.

Kinetic: I'm unnerved by your absolute confidence on what is on the mind of the scum groups, without a drop of WIFOM in your way. It's almost as if you are the scum, even though I don't want to believe that because it is too obvious. Such example include:

SK wants MGM lynched no matter what his alignment

And why not anyone else? Does it really matter for SK who gets lynched, if they are so unconcerned about the lynchee's alignment? If anything, I think you are putting into our subconcious that MGM is indeed our choice of lynch for today.

I'm also not feeling the vibe for how the SK killed d3sisted in order to frame MGM. I think it was just a lucky coincidence for SK that he picked a person at random, that person was a mafia, and MGM was voting him at the same time. Now M4yhem kill might be that since people raised suspicion at MGM for voting d3sisted (rather stupidly I might add - you really can't base any serious accusation from anything that happened at random vote stage), he decided to play along with the theme. (Although I'm no where near 100% convinced on this theory, but it's the best I have at the moment) Now I won't be at all surprised if the SK is the one who suggested this connection in the first place. Most likely to buy some time by making us concentrate on something utterly useless. And that would be you, Kinetic.

I'm also not in favour of how you OMGUSly reacting to CKD.

CKD: The only person who I can see talking some sense. At the moment, I have nothing to point out.

Mirth: I asked the questions earlier about whether you have anything to contribute. And you insisted that you don't, and you are posting whenever things crop up.

To be blunt, I'm very wary of this attitude. A townie should be trying to dig dead bodies up and generate conversation, rather than offering thoughts there and there. It is a scum heaven when the conversation dies, and our job is to try and prevent such situation from occuring at all costs. But from what I hear from you, you are not even prepared to nitpick other people's posts, even if it is just in the interest of stirring a discussion in town.

HazzelQ: What is your opinion on Kinetic, and MGM?

[Raffles]

Ah crap everyone ignore the reference I made to other games. I apologize and I forgot it was still ongoing.

[heatherlou]

You're right mirth, my post didn't come down to a very good point.
The point was answering MGM that, yes I read his posts, and I think switching was a scummy move, even if they did eventually explain it, the switch was sudden and remained unexplained in the post where they switched.

[Mgm]

The switch had to be sudden. With only a single week between kills, it doesn't leave us with the amount of time you'd normally associate with a non-scummy change of heart.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic: I'm unnerved by your absolute confidence on what is on the mind of the scum groups, without a drop of WIFOM in your way. It's almost as if you are the scum, even though I don't want to believe that because it is too obvious. Such example include:

SK wants MGM lynched no matter what his alignment

And why not anyone else? Does it really matter for SK who gets lynched, if they are so unconcerned about the lynchee's alignment? If anything, I think you are putting into our subconcious that MGM is indeed our choice of lynch for today.

I was merely pointing out that the SK wouldn't attack MGM at all, and I would doubt he would do anything to prevent an MGM lynch. I thought I had more evidence in this matter when I decided to bring up this point, but I later learned I was wrong. That being said, it is a very fair point to be made in my opinion and not one that has been contradicted, even by the people attacking me.

And no, it doesn't matter who gets lynched for the SK, except of course, the SK himself. He would need to start trying to target mafia if the town starts to get backed up, but until then his killing of d3 makes it so he has pretty much free reign.

Originally I was the first one who suspected MGM of being scum (specifically I thought him to be the SK), but recent events have turned me from that idea. That is most of the reason why I've started to look critically at those who are attacking MGM at this point. I've not completely ruled out MGM as scum, but like I said, recent events are turning me away from that idea.

And my personal opinion on WIFOM: When I make a choice I look at it from what I know and choose a path to follow. Almost any choice made in a game can really be considered WIFOM, but eventually a choice has to be made. I take my best stab at discovering the motive and try to prove it. I don't enjoy saying something is WIFOM and I don't enjoy using WIFOM as an excuse if I can avoid it.

I'm also not feeling the vibe for how the SK killed d3sisted in order to frame MGM. I think it was just a lucky coincidence for SK that he picked a person at random, that person was a mafia, and MGM was voting him at the same time. Now M4yhem kill might be that since people raised suspicion at MGM for voting d3sisted (rather stupidly I might add - you really can't base any serious accusation from anything that happened at random vote stage), he decided to play along with the theme. (Although I'm no where near 100% convinced on this theory, but it's the best I have at the moment) Now I won't be at all surprised if the SK is the one who suggested this connection in the first place. Most likely to buy some time by making us concentrate on something utterly useless. And that would be you, Kinetic.

I'm also not in favour of how you OMGUSly reacting to CKD.

Most of my thoughts on the m4yhem kill were lost when my main theory was blown up. To me it just looks like the SK targeting someone out of the way and for the most part at this point I've written it off. If I notice something in the future I'll be sure to bring it up.

As for the supposed OMGUS response to CKD, I thought HazzleQ and CKD were scummy back when I originally voted for HQ and I picked Hazzle because he wasn't posting at much and seemed like scum that was trying to "go with the flow". But when Hazzle seemed to jump on me for little to no reason I took a look back and didn't really like the way he was jumping around. His threatening me like he did didn't help his case in my book, I'll admit, but it wasn't by far my only reason for looking at him.

CKD: The only person who I can see talking some sense. At the moment, I have nothing to point out.

Really? Nothing he said gives you the least bit pause? *rolls eyes*

[Mgm]

MGM: What is wrong with harrassing ANYONE (note: maybe apart from a confirmed innocent) in a mafia game? It's a way to get them talk, and I sure gained a lot more insight on kinetic than I had before.

You may want to look up the meaning of the word. Harrassing anyone is a bad thing. There's no point in making him talk, because Kinetic is one of the few people actually talking already.

I'm opposing it especially because your attack on him is based on a faulty premise. I'm not scum, so he can't be my scum buddy and you'll see that when I'm dead. If you'd like to push that idea and you're really convinced I'm scum, wait till I'm actually dead before you proceed with the accusations.

I still don't have an answer from anyone how questioning my wagon makes Kinetic scum and how me killing d3sisted would qualify as a cover up. [post 174]

[Mgm]

Ok, I have two things to add:

After that I'm even more convinced that the SK is trying to frame MGM. HazzleQ seems like the best suspect imo.

Kinetics post (...)
I'd like to know exactly why he thinks Hazzel is the best suspect.

At this point I'm most suspicious of HazzleQ, but there are other people on my radar.

One thing to remember is that there are two scum groups and both of them have information that the town would like to have.

Wow, the way you put those quotes, almost seemed like that was an exchange between me and Mirth. However those "two" posts by me were from the same post, and the one from Mirth was from a little while back.

I'm going to check on this to make sure Kinetic is right, but that's definitely worth a

FOS: HazzelQ

.

[HazzelQ]

Ok, I have two things to add:

After that I'm even more convinced that the SK is trying to frame MGM. HazzleQ seems like the best suspect imo.

Kinetics post (...)
I'd like to know exactly why he thinks Hazzel is the best suspect.

At this point I'm most suspicious of HazzleQ, but there are other people on my radar.

One thing to remember is that there are two scum groups and both of them have information that the town would like to have.

1) Kinetic- why don't you answer the question? Why do you think I am the most likely one to be SK?
2) What information are you talking about? Who they are, or what...?

Wow, the way you put those quotes, almost seemed like that was an exchange between me and Mirth.

However those "two" posts by me were from the same post, and the one from Mirth was from a little while back.

Sorry, I didn't even notice that question in the post at the time, next time if you're going to quote like that mention post numbers in the quote so there isn't any confusion.

Eeeeh, AWHATNOW?
Why are even trying to lie about something this stupid?
post#s: 151, 154, 158

Well, it's up to you to read the posts dude.

[Mgm]

Mod:

Can you prod some players and - if needed - get in replacements?

[HazzelQ]

Question 1:

I never said I thought you were the Serial Killer.

I wanted to see if you'd slip up... like that . No no, I think you're mafia not the SK. The way you're voting, the lashing out and attacks, all of it screams mafia to me. Now I have stated I don't have an air tight, open-shut case against you, but I have a strong gut feeling that you and possibly one of your scum buddies is on MGM. And I also have a strong feeling that the mafia thinks that MGM is the SK. I also think that MGM isn't the SK at this point, and that the SK is currently hiding- most likely in plain sight.

Well, about the first part, I rest my case dude I think you should stop with the lies now:

After that I'm even more convinced that the SK is trying to frame MGM. HazzleQ seems like the best suspect imo.

At this point I'm most suspicious of HazzleQ, but there are other people on my radar.

About the second part- that's how I chose to play this game. You don't have to like it.

Question 2: The SK is a scum group consisting of only him(or her)self. That is what I meant by two scum groups. I should have been more clear and said scum factions, but groups work all the same. That being said, the mafia know exactly who is on their team. That is information that if the town had could help us discern a lot out of the game. And SK has information on who he is going to kill next, why, and how he plans to survive.

That is all pretty basic mafia stuff. I would have assumed I wouldn't have had to explain it (referring to question 2).

hehe, ok dude, I think you are really trying to be stupid here, but ok. A simple "yes hazzelQ, you are right" would have done. What you said is absolutely meaningless my friend, there is no way for us to get hold of that information (who they are and what they plan to do next), that's kind of the point...

One thing to remember is that there are two scum groups and both of them have information that the town would like to have.

2) What information are you talking about? Who they are, or what...?

[HazzelQ]

I have to go to work. I am currently reading up on all the posts.

[Raffles]

A quick post as I have to go to bed.

HazzelQ - I'll patiently await for your answers.

Stewie, how would you like to offer your two cents?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Deepsouth and Deep Fried Ninja have been prodded.

They have 24 hours to respond or post in thread before replacement

[HazzelQ]

HazzelQ: What is your opinion on Kinetic, and MGM?

Yes, Raffles, you'll get my thoughts.

MGM - I think you all know why I am voting for him. Theres no proof he is scum, agreed, but: when pressured he responds very odd and trows votes and accusations around, he discuss meaningless things (IMO to stall), he have weird ideas I don't like. I am voting for the one I think is most likely to be scum. So should you all.

Kinetic - Well, as opposed to what he is saying, I have not jumped on him...(Actually, I would like you to point out were I did this Kinetic, my vote is still on MGM). Also, I think he is a compulsive liar of some sort... IRL that is. So far he have thrown lies around as hot little potatoes. The most recent one is that I have been changing opinion regularly. (Can you explain this more as well Kinetic?). I don't think he is scum, but I do think he is kind of stupid when posting things everyone can see through as lies.

[curiouskarmadog]

If he is not scum, why do you suppose he would be lying (in your words)?

[Mirth]

Sigh. Lots of backlog. This is what I get for getting a decent amount of sleep for once. First I want to

Unvote: MGM

What I don't like about all the stuff I missed:

1. Kinetic, why are you associating me with CKD and HazzelQ. Once again, I would like to point out that my vote on MGM happened first, was ignored for 2 or so pages, and then Hazzel voted followed by CKD. Also I am not "pushing" as you say. Please note how a lot of my posts say that I'd rather be right about a lynch then fast about it. I do think MGM is possibly mafia, but that is my independent opinion.

2.

CKD. Stop harrassing Kinetic. If I do indeed end up dead, you'll find out I'm not scum with him.

Why should he, MGM? Yes your areguements are valid, but harrassing = more information = good.

3. Raffles, I nitpick stuff when I see stuff to nitpick. If I don't see anything worth nitpicking, I wait until I find something.

4. I'm not done yet. I have a doctor's appointment now. I didn't expect so much backlog. I'll finish reading everything after post 175 when I get back. I'll also post a better analysis of the stuff that was said before then and possibly do a complete read through with individual analysis. Right now I really have to go.

[HazzelQ]

If he is not scum, why do you suppose he would be lying (in your words)?

I need to revise that statement. I'm

not sure

he is mafia either, but I do think he is a compulsive liar.

[Mgm]

he discuss meaningless things (IMO to stall),

I'm discussing meaningless things? Now you're just being silly. It's fine you find my ideas weird, it's okay to disagree with me, but claiming I'm stalling is plain wrong. I'm doing everything I can to get meaningful discussion started.

Are you talking about my idea the mafia is more dangerous than the SK?

[Mgm]

Why should he, MGM? Yes your areguements are valid, but harrassing = more information = good.

There's a thread about this in the mafia discussion forum. Pressure tactics often get responses, but they're not always how the player would usually respond (town or scum). Pressure of that kind can get people in a defensive mode. A defensive attitude can be a sign of scumminess, but it's useless when it's the action to procure info that brought it on in the first place.

Compare it to a situation where you ask someone to claim then vote them for claiming early.

I think there are more subtle and better ways to get information.

[Stewie]

A quick post as I have to go to bed.

HazzelQ - I'll patiently await for your answers.

Stewie, how would you like to offer your two cents?

Here's what I think:

At least one of kinetic and hazzelQ is scum. I think HazzelQ is more likely, but only slightly, and I would change votes to beat the "deadline."
Also, I think MGM is town, and at least one of the people on him is scum.

[HazzelQ]

he discuss meaningless things (IMO to stall),

I'm discussing meaningless things? Now you're just being silly. It's fine you find my ideas weird, it's okay to disagree with me, but claiming I'm stalling is plain wrong. I'm doing everything I can to get meaningful discussion started.

Are you talking about my idea the mafia is more dangerous than the SK?

post #114 explains it.

Ok, screw this. I am going to reset here. My tactic is only going in circles, I am not getting any meaningless results. My vote stays for now though.

[curiouskarmadog]

he discuss meaningless things (IMO to stall),

I'm discussing meaningless things? Now you're just being silly. It's fine you find my ideas weird, it's okay to disagree with me, but claiming I'm stalling is plain wrong. I'm doing everything I can to get meaningful discussion started.

Are you talking about my idea the mafia is more dangerous than the SK?

post #114 explains it.

Ok, screw this. I am going to reset here. My tactic is only going in circles, I am not getting any meaningless results. My vote stays for now though.

ok I do not understand this post...are you going in circles or are you NOT getting meaningless results?

What was your tactic before? What exactly are you trying to reset?

[HazzelQ]

sorry, my english slips at 12:40 at night...still don't see were my post is unclear but it probably is. It is kind of cryptic, I shouldn't have posted it.

My tactic is not getting us anywhere, that's what I meant. My tactic was to inflame people to- if they are scum- slip up, but that doesn't seem to work, it just make them vary of posting and to much fire is on me instead. I expected some fire of course, but I've done this for too long.

So, my tactic was going in circles AND I were not getting any meaningless results.

"scummy scummy", right?

[Stewie]

So, my tactic was going in circles AND I were not getting any meaningless results.

I think you mean to say you weren't getting any meaningful results.

[Kinetic]

Alright, I've made quite a few dumb errors in this game so far and I'm getting picked apart because of the sheer stupidity on my part. Nothing like college starting up again to really boggle the mind, no?

Anyway, I'm going to delete my current notes on this game, re-read, and try and figure out why I'm not making much sense even to myself.

Unvote

for now, but I'm still pretty sure I'll place it back where it was when I'm done. I've got no work or class tomorrow (today?) so I should have plenty of time to get through this thread and come back with my opinions/logic.