STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Sonic X]

OK I read RR's case. The part where he comes up with TW being scum is "valid" as in if she did slip that info, she's confscum. The part where he ends up with me being probscum is not. also, titus preaches that "valid" and "sound" gibberish. if she's scum, she'll be difficult to out argue (i dunno, you may enjoy it though). I will execute her if I am convinced without doubt of her guilt, but remember that the net loss if she flips

town

is pretty heavy.

With regards to the evidence themselves, if I tilt my head funny,

yes I can see it from your perspective

. But remember I said this earlier

Nah I'm only a stump for this day phase.

Constantines post have looked bad to me for awhile, though grapes brought up a good point about him being in both Frogger and maxwells lynch pools. I remember maxwell going after bins for awhile too. However, I can't remember who brought it up before, but someone pointed out that bins really put the brakes on the raging bull wagon D1, and was town reading Frogger for pretty poor reasons, while preferring a beer lynch for information. I wouldn't count him out.

I'm wondering what characters would share a pt with steven. I really think a mass flavor claim would be helpful.

Also I agree that it's strange that Sonic's role is the only one that doesn't require a specific phrase to activate an ability, though it's possible that there are no phrases associated with his character.

Another thing I want to mention is that I still think it's odd that TW is the only gem without specific alliance and fusion abilities.

They're claiming that could have been intended to protect Frogger from my setup spec.

Mass Flavor claim pretty please

Where did they claim that? They also claimed in our pt that their role cop was tied to alliances/fusions but they just didn't notice at first.

Also, to everyone: What would be your first assumption if someone displayed knowledge of an aspect of another players role which they had no way of knowing? There is no combination of alliance meetings by which said knowledge could have reached the player, and the information has absolutely not been shared in this thread.

-Cerb

That is a serious crime. I would se if the evidence is explicitly damning or could it be ambiguous misreading. If it is confirmed scum then I will destroy the scumbag.

I noticed those posts that you quoted when you posted them, and yes I found those statements redundant. Like, "gives me back my refilled ability" on first thought could have meant "give me back my gladiate", but she already mentioned that "my gladiate is full".

I think that your evidence is not explicitly damning enough, but for discussion, let's say it is true.

Your case has a really huge hole when it comes to describing TW scum = me scum. Why must be

the rolecop

who rolecopped me then? Why must the set be [mastin, xtoxm, sonic] when another player of her scumteam (she's not the last member of the scumteam, btw) could have gotten the info? remember, I auto scan anybody who uses an action on me. Rolecops *should not* be able to get past me undetected. Once again I ask you if you received the message. Do you even want me to out that? Or do you want me to be discreet. Thanks for outing me btw. Now scum won't target me, but its not like they did throughout this game anyway.

You are facing

n > 1 unknowns, where n = number of remaining scum members, who might have received the information on TW's behalf.

. I ask you, how can you justify your scumread on me?

I'm not even defending myself yet. Just poking your case here. It is obvious to everybody that I can be considered confirmed town by play.

[Sonic X]

mastina, talk to me. RR has hard defended frogger and wasn't going superman on maxwell when it needed to, and now he is scumreading me. these ICs >_>

[Sonic X]

also

VOTE: titus

you have 24 hours.

I am judge.

RR is prosecutor

go

[mastin2]

Sonic, when it comes to RR on you, there's not much more that I can do other than say, "Yeah, you're wrong, there."

[TheFuzzylogic99]

also

VOTE: titus

you have 24 hours.

I am judge.

RR is prosecutor

go

don't you mean Trench Warfare ???

[Xtoxm]

Let's not have a repeat of D3.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Xtoxm
what are you your thoughts on RR case on TW. What are your objection to a TW lynch if any??

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I actually will stick with Sonic tonight,,,,,,,unless he really wants to switch

[Xtoxm]

No objection; I agree that TW is scum. The case for Sonic also being scum as a corollary does seem to be correct, however it goes strongly against my personal read of him and what his play would indicate...If TW flips a different team to Frog/Max, then, yes, ok. But that's a lot of missing nightkills. Sonic was and is a universal townread, and for good reason, so let's not get complacent here.

There are alliances etc to sort out as usual, you'll want a new partner for one, i'm also thinking we should get a claim from Cooldog today..Unless RR has other plans for that.

TW is at L-2 and would likely self hammer if given the opportunity.

[Reasonably Rational]

OK I read RR's case. The part where he comes up with TW being scum is "valid" as in if she did slip that info, she's confscum. The part where he ends up with me being probscum is not. also, titus preaches that "valid" and "sound" gibberish. if she's scum, she'll be difficult to out argue (i dunno, you may enjoy it though). I will execute her if I am convinced without doubt of her guilt, but remember that the net loss if she flips

town

is pretty heavy.

With regards to the evidence themselves, if I tilt my head funny,

yes I can see it from your perspective

. But remember I said this earlier

Nah I'm only a stump for this day phase.

Constantines post have looked bad to me for awhile, though grapes brought up a good point about him being in both Frogger and maxwells lynch pools. I remember maxwell going after bins for awhile too. However, I can't remember who brought it up before, but someone pointed out that bins really put the brakes on the raging bull wagon D1, and was town reading Frogger for pretty poor reasons, while preferring a beer lynch for information. I wouldn't count him out.

I'm wondering what characters would share a pt with steven. I really think a mass flavor claim would be helpful.

Also I agree that it's strange that Sonic's role is the only one that doesn't require a specific phrase to activate an ability, though it's possible that there are no phrases associated with his character.

Another thing I want to mention is that I still think it's odd that TW is the only gem without specific alliance and fusion abilities.

They're claiming that could have been intended to protect Frogger from my setup spec.

Mass Flavor claim pretty please

Where did they claim that? They also claimed in our pt that their role cop was tied to alliances/fusions but they just didn't notice at first.

Also, to everyone: What would be your first assumption if someone displayed knowledge of an aspect of another players role which they had no way of knowing? There is no combination of alliance meetings by which said knowledge could have reached the player, and the information has absolutely not been shared in this thread.

-Cerb

That is a serious crime. I would se if the evidence is explicitly damning or could it be ambiguous misreading. If it is confirmed scum then I will destroy the scumbag.

I noticed those posts that you quoted when you posted them, and yes I found those statements redundant. Like, "gives me back my refilled ability" on first thought could have meant "give me back my gladiate", but she already mentioned that "my gladiate is full".

I think that your evidence is not explicitly damning enough, but for discussion, let's say it is true.

Your case has a really huge hole when it comes to describing TW scum = me scum. Why must be

the rolecop

who rolecopped me then? Why must the set be [mastin, xtoxm, sonic] when another player of her scumteam (she's not the last member of the scumteam, btw) could have gotten the info? remember, I auto scan anybody who uses an action on me. Rolecops *should not* be able to get past me undetected. Once again I ask you if you received the message. Do you even want me to out that? Or do you want me to be discreet. Thanks for outing me btw. Now scum won't target me, but its not like they did throughout this game anyway.

You are facing

n > 1 unknowns, where n = number of remaining scum members, who might have received the information on TW's behalf.

. I ask you, how can you justify your scumread on me?

I'm not even defending myself yet. Just poking your case here. It is obvious to everybody that I can be considered confirmed town by play.

Again, tell me HOW someone else would have that knowledge. You told me you didn't tell anyone else., except a hint of I'm not sure what exactly to grapes. Don't present the hypothetical like I'm unaware of the possibility and didn't specifically ask you to address it already. Tell me how. Give me the method by which TW gained your role information without involving you, mastin, or xtoxm, AND without triggering your ability.

In the original post itself I laid out the circumstances under which I'd be willing to believe you were town, because those are the only circumstances under which it MIGHT make sense that your role was somehow obtained without your knowledge. If you have other possible answers in mind, you need to present them. I'm not going to write your defense for you.

All you're doing is defending yourself and distancing from TW, after a day full of interactions in which you each stepped in when the other was being discussed/questioned. It's hilarious that you're even attempting to disguise your defense as anything else.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, and fuzzy: don't motivate Sonic. We don't need his gladiate if he is town, and if he's scum, we can't risk refilling something important to them.

Regarding CoolDog, I'd like to ally him and get his claim, or alternatively ally fuzzy like I would have suggested as an alternative yesterday had the day not ended before I expected it to.

-Cerb

-Cerb

[Titus]

@RR, We are 100% town. My defense is going to be delayed. I am going to do that tomorrow afternoon. Sudden court deal.

[Sonic X]

Again, tell me HOW someone else would have that knowledge. You told me you didn't tell anyone else., except a hint of I'm not sure what exactly to grapes. Don't present the hypothetical like I'm unaware of the possibility and didn't specifically ask you to address it already. Tell me how. Give me the method by which TW gained your role information without involving you, mastin, or xtoxm, AND without triggering your ability.

i was in an alliance with mastina and grapes. mastina agrees that you're wrong, so number one, get off your fucking high horse.

next, this discussion is still hypothetical. the premises are not necessarily true. when TW said "refilled ability", i read it as my gladiate the first time. The "refill in confirmed town"? Well, the refill is indeed going to confirmed town, I read that

the time Titus made the post

. she did not say "refiller ability", only "refill". I've earlier told you my policy about ambiguous wording, before you came up with that, so don't you

dare fucking say that I'm changing my stances here

. you know what my ability does, and you could have over analyzed and seen something that was not there. This is irrelevant to whether TW is scum or not; You poked me by calling me scum, and you wanted people to poke holes in your case, so here I am. "oh, you're scum, you're defending titus scum"? Well, fine, then listen to mastin. "oh, mastin's opinion doesn't matter lololol" well then fuck you too.
---

Well, because you look apparently serious about this fiasco, then I must reveal evidence that would clear my name.

Firstly, evidence related to this case: Titus gave me a tracker last night, and this is documented here:

Spoiler:

What bolded quotes?? If you are telling the truth than fine but I dont see any bolded quotes.i dont know if I am just being the usual dense self or you are lying.
how about this. Just the post number where you claimed RC.

Sonicc
I had no reason to want to use it on you. I said this like 20 times already.

Sonic is obvtown and begging for people to visit him, and you had no reason?

There's a thing called bussing Sonic. But I'll put you down as Xtoxm is scum category for now.

Nope. Fuzzy hasn't given a good response for that. He attempted in his claim post.

Ok. Titus doesn't bus. Titus didn't lynch frogs. Titus could be scum.

That makes sense

Take your medicine tonight.

Not sure if insult or crumb

Which one is reasonably rational?

This invention action was not detected by my ability.

I received the track, but my ability did not ping a "you received the ability to give someone a tracker invention"! This suggests that TW has access to at least 1 ability that can bypass my watch/copy. However, that is null.

Firstly, your question:

Give me the method by which TW gained your role information without involving you, mastin, or xtoxm, AND without triggering your ability.

1) Her rolecop, like her Inventor, bypasses my ability. A ninja has not flipped yet, but we have a confirmed watcher + tracker.
2) Informed Townie/Scum that knows the roles of Others (this explains the crumb that mastina found when she encouraged people to visit me, though that could be attributed to our close rapport)
3) A game specific ability that may or may not explicitly bypass my ability. Neighborhood Invader (Like Hermit, but Invisible.) Oracle. Dreaming God. No fucking clue.
4) Scum could possibly have immunity to my self-watch and this was not being made known to me (Assumption that TW is scum)
5) She guessed it because she knows me too well.
---

The next piece of evidence that should clear my name is information that only Farside is privy to. Get it from her if you haven't already. I don't want to out nice people because that is rude and dumb.

All said, your assertion that I am partnered with TW is dumb. You implictly assert that I am partnered with dead scum Frogger and Maxwell, which is absolutely ridiculous, and I suppose that you did not consider that.

In fact, thinking that I am partnered with anybody... is bad. Paranoia is less bad, but stop being a dick about it. Thanks.

[Sonic X]

All you're doing is defending yourself and distancing from TW, after a day full of interactions in which you each stepped in when the other was being discussed/questioned. It's hilarious that you're even attempting to disguise your defense as anything else.

Also, how interesting. In the evidence posted above, I clearly expressed doubt about TW. Somehow you overlooked that.

I want you to drop the point that I am scum. Then we can have a productive discussion and/or win. Thanks.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Sonic thinks TW is scum. Everyone else seems to think TW is scum. There has yet to be a reasonable explanation for a town TW.

Therefore we should lynch TW and stop worrying about Sonic.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I think we need to set up alliances for tonight just in case TW is not the last scum before me move foward with the lynch.....we should not take a y chances so dont a dah three doesnt repeat itself... Xtoxm made a good point about day 3

[Metal Sonic]

I gain no bonuses by being in an alliance. I only enjoy the neighborhood aspect.

[farside22]

Rr have you received the message

Yes.

I think cooldog is scum with tw but I think rr is stubborn sometimes.
Not that I have room to talk.

[Reasonably Rational]

Firstly, your question:

Give me the method by which TW gained your role information without involving you, mastin, or xtoxm, AND without triggering your ability.

1) Her rolecop, like her Inventor, bypasses my ability. A ninja has not flipped yet, but we have a confirmed watcher + tracker.
2) Informed Townie/Scum that knows the roles of Others (this explains the crumb that mastina found when she encouraged people to visit me, though that could be attributed to our close rapport)
3) A game specific ability that may or may not explicitly bypass my ability. Neighborhood Invader (Like Hermit, but Invisible.) Oracle. Dreaming God. No fucking clue.
4) Scum could possibly have immunity to my self-watch and this was not being made known to me (Assumption that TW is scum)
5) She guessed it because she knows me too well.
---

The next piece of evidence that should clear my name is information that only Farside is privy to. Get it from her if you haven't already. I don't want to out nice people because that is rude and dumb.

All said, your assertion that I am partnered with TW is dumb. You implictly assert that I am partnered with dead scum Frogger and Maxwell, which is absolutely ridiculous, and I suppose that you did not consider that.

In fact, thinking that I am partnered with anybody... is bad. Paranoia is less bad, but stop being a dick about it. Thanks.

The fact of the matter is that Titus displayed knowledge of your more powerful ability at a time when you had only told Mastin (who told us in our day 3 chat). The fact that you have to posit a list of scenarios that each become more and more unlikely to try and explain away how she knew explicitly violates Occam's razor. The most simple explanation for her knowing you got to copy powers is because someone told her.

The pool of people who could have told her prior to her revealing knowledge of it was very small.

We excluded everyone from that pool, except you, on very strong logical grounds. So strong that nobody has even challenged them at all and Xtoxm went from a lynch candidate to considered town based upon the logic.

It's irrelevant that Mastin disagrees with us, and you know the

many

reasons for that. The fact that you have to appeal to Mastin for defense is amusing, but not really useful to you.


The most simple explanation for you not receiving Titus' power to invent is really simple; your scum partners don't get to give you their abilities. That seems like a reasonable restriction to build into a role like yours, and also explains you openly inviting town powers your way. It's much more believable that your scum buddies cannot give you their abilities than to posit:

1.) Titus is also a ninja, on top of being an inventor and rolecop
2.) Someone somehow informed of your role, in detail, without your knowledge, as a

role

. This is especially true with almost nobody yet to claim (looking at Cooldog here)
3.) Some new heretofore unknown ability that specifically bypasses your ability

and

somehow gets your role info
4.) The scum team is immune to one of your strongest powers
5.) She just miraculously guessed it


For what it's worth, number 5 is what she went with when she posted a quick post yesterday, while driving, because us putting up the case was considered such an emergency that TSO contacted her in

real life

to get her to respond. When she responded, she brushed off the knowledge by saying she had guessed it, and told TSO what it was, and then made a snide comment about us not being as experienced as she is. IF that were so, why would TSO need to get into emergency RL contact with her about our case?

Emergency RL contact seems a lot like what scum might do if a game is on the line and not a lot like what a hydra head would do when the information was already shared with him.


And then we have the start of the day phase. I started to test TW a little bit, and you stepped in to defend her. Then I started to try and get a reaction from you, and she stepped in and asked me to make a case against you that she could get around to today (but surprise, she can't be around today), which was an obvious stall. You guys have associative tells out the wazoo at the beginning of this day phase. We probed you guys to see how you would respond just in case you would respond that way, and you were so kind to us by intervening for one another.

The bottom line is that TW knew your real power when she had no way to know it unless you told her. Unless you are going to attack our logic for why Mastin and Xtoxm are town, you are left with only you as the possible source of her knowing. You already said earlier you weren't bread crumbing it. All you did earlier in the game was ask townies to direct powers at you and pout when they didn't, and frankly that's not enough info for titus to explicitly refer to you gaining the refiller ability when farside visited you. I could

maybe

guess that she considered it as a possibility; however, she wasn't talking about possibilities in those posts. She clearly says you will both gain the refiller power and have your gladiate refilled.

Game.
Set.
Match.

~Drixx

[Metal Sonic]

I started to test TW a little bit, and you stepped in to defend her.

did i?

[Metal Sonic]

The most simple explanation for you not receiving Titus' power to invent is really simple; your scum partners don't get to give you their abilities. That seems like a reasonable restriction to build into a role like yours, and also explains you openly inviting town powers your way. It's much more believable that your scum buddies cannot give you their abilities

Sorry dude. I don't have scum partners.

You're working from the conclusion that I am scum to come up with reasons for how TW is scum with me. The theory should suit the evidence, not the evidence suit the theory. You can come up with 1001 reasons for why I am scum but most would be weak or invalid. Some less than others.

I can also come up with 1001 reasons why I am town. It seems like you don't listen to opposing viewpoints so never mind.

[Metal Sonic]

you are left with only you as the possible source of her knowing.

This is where your logic falls down bro.

you cannot make this claim because you do not know all the information in the game. simple as that.

anyway i am town. stop yelling at me. don't think you are IC means you can boss everyone around.

[Sonic X]

I started to test TW a little bit, and you stepped in to defend her.

did i?

The most simple explanation for you not receiving Titus' power to invent is really simple; your scum partners don't get to give you their abilities. That seems like a reasonable restriction to build into a role like yours, and also explains you openly inviting town powers your way. It's much more believable that your scum buddies cannot give you their abilities

Sorry dude. I don't have scum partners.

You're working from the conclusion that I am scum to come up with reasons for how TW is scum with me. The theory should suit the evidence, not the evidence suit the theory. You can come up with 1001 reasons for why I am scum but most would be weak or invalid. Some less than others.

I can also come up with 1001 reasons why I am town. It seems like you don't listen to opposing viewpoints so never mind.

you are left with only you as the possible source of her knowing.

This is where your logic falls down bro.

you cannot make this claim because you do not know all the information in the game. simple as that.

anyway i am town. stop yelling at me. don't think you are IC means you can boss everyone around.

[Reasonably Rational]

I started to test TW a little bit, and you stepped in to defend her.

did i?

Yes ... yes you did.

"Oh, Steven. Humans just lead short, boring, insignificant lives, so they make up stories to feel like they're a part of something bigger. They want to blame all the world's problems on some single enemy they can fight, instead of a complex network of interrelated forces beyond anyone's control."

-Pearl,

Keep Beach City Weird

VOTECOUNT 4.06: LYNCH

MaxwellPuckett (

LYNCH

):

grapes, Xtoxm, NicCage, farside22, Sonic X, Vezokpiraka, Vezokpiraka

thefuzzylogic99 (2):

St Constantine the Hermit, Trench Warfare

CooLDoG (1):

MaxwellPuckett

mastin2 (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

Vezokpiraka (1):

grapes

Not Voting (4):

vezokpiraka, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, Mastin2

With 13 Alive, it took 7 to Lynch.

But you weren't voting him at the end of the day. I mean, if anyone was responsible for maxwell lynch, it wasn't you..or sonic. :p

-Cerb

Did you just say that I was not responsible for the maxwell lynch? Are you daft? Look at your own vote.

Here's you responding to a post aimed a TW, who was voting fuzzy (and fuzzy seems to have been today's designated mislynch by the scum team if what went on before we dropped our case into the thread is any indication). You also throwing some shade on us when we had our vote withheld specifically because Cerberus and Titus had some things to talk about in real time, but Vezok ended the day with his double vote.

Wait for me to get to a computer. 8 hours.

And here's a stall.

@Drixx, I am not quite certain where this is going. I will give you some space. I have an insane day tomorrow. Can you make a case for me to look over on Friday?

And here's Titus intervening when I was pushing you trying to get me to stop and make a case against you to be looked at a day+ later ... another stall.


And all of that was was BEFORE we did anything more than some light questioning of you two.

[Sonic X]

if you are talking about me asking titus to make the timer for me... lol.

she was active, i was on my phone, and she is using timers when she is modding the other game. you are clearly confbiasing here.