STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[MaxwellPuckett]

Sonic, unless I missed one of the claims besides the voteless, double voter, and miller, I'm not surprised at what has been outed already. It's kind of impossible to hide the first two, and a miller who knows they're a miller isn't doing themselves any favours by keeping that fact hidden. Ofc scum does the same thing all the time, but the mere fact of outing that doesn't make grapes scum.

Also, hey, nice to meet you all. Nice gif use, Sonic.

I don't think Beer's post is all that horrendous. It just looks like.. a weird crumb? Okay, maybe that does make it bad considering this is not the time nor the place for crumbs... I don't know. I find it hard to believe that scum would just up and make a post like that.

Anyways, I like grapes. The um.. the player. Not the fruit. I actually hate grapes.

EDIT: Fro99er! I forgot to say hi. Nice to see ya!!

VOTE: Cheetory6

[MaxwellPuckett]

I like grapes', the player's, posts.

I hate grapes, the fruit. They are disgusting little pustules of slimy awfulness.

By the way, my vote wasn't RVS.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Trench: I don't believe that anyone was given a choice like that at the start of the game. If the game started with alliances, they were premade by Varsoon based on roles. That may have happened here.

Cheetory: grapes' 42. Their most recent post. The fact that they said they believe Beer is town, which is going against the grain.

Anyways, what do you think about Beer, Cheetory? Your opinion on grapes wouldn't hurt either.

EDIT: May unvote you based on the pun alone. And Trench, there's really no reason not to attempt a fusion/alliance every single night. Well.. okay, actually, thinking of flavour, some fusions may actually give negative effects, maybe, but that information is still valuable. And there's probably nothing wrong with an alliance.

[MaxwellPuckett]

That does make sense, vezok. But.. I'm having trouble believing Lars is scum. He's a dick, not a villain. But if you're actually Sadie and he's really saying that he claimed scum then.. well first of all what the hell is he doing, because he should know Sadie is town and that making you dislike him is a terrible idea, and secondly, there's really nothing I can say to refute you there. If he's flat-out claimed scum to you then what more can be said?

[MaxwellPuckett]

I don't see where Beer is claiming scum in-thread, though. Also, you two look like you're arguing in your PT as well, so...

What IS funny is that this would totally happen is Lars and Sadie were shoved into an alliance. Are you two sure you aren't roleplaying?

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm not voting Beer with a 77 attitude because of 78. Lars and Sadie are arguing in their PT. There's probably some miscommunication going on. I'm not going to vote Beer just because of what vezok says here. Also, I still find it hard imagining that Lars would be put in a villain role.

Also, you don't like it when I make jokes about canon personalities matching up with what is happening? Should I stop enjoying the flavour, Ricastle? That's why I joined this game.

EDIT: okay, seriously, the roleplaying thing was a joke. I don't think you're roleplaying.

I wanna hear what Beer has to say about this. Claiming scum to to his neighbour just seems ridiculously stupid.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm not avoiding a vote on him purely because of flavour. I DO think that, if Varsoon went to the trouble of making SU mafia in the first place, they will try to make the flavour mesh with the game mechanics as much as is feasible. That's the fun of making theme games. So..there's basically no way for a Sadie, for example, to be scum. For Lars, I could see it happening only because of his personality, but that just means the possibility is there.

I still want to hear from Beer about this. The posts that are being referred to as claiming scum or whatever just look like jokes, and there is obviously friction in the PT. Beer being stupid enough to just claim scum to his neighbourhood partner? I don't really believe that. I don't think you're lying, vezok, I'm just wondering if you misinterpreted.

Cheetory: Sorry, forgot to address that. To me, that post from grapes didn't look like padding to look town. It just looked like grapes was thinking about the game and putting their thoughts down as those thoughts came to them. I do the same thing, and sometimes my posts end up longer because there's some unnecessary shit in them as my thought process develops.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I know, I know. But if Beer is lying about being Lars, then vezok is also lying about being Sadie. Sadie starting in a neighbourhood with literally anyone else makes no sense. So either they're both lying about their role names, or neither of them are.

Beer hasn't posted since Vezok claimed that Beer claimed scum. Saying 'Beer has done nothing to refute it' doesn't make any sense, they haven't had the opportunity to comment on the situation yet.

Summary: The fact that it's Lars and Sadie is what leads me to believe they are both in a neighbourhood together. Either one is lying or both are lying about their role names. I highly doubt it's the latter, because if one dies and turns out to not be Lars or Sadie, then you know the other one is lying. There's no way a Lars or a Sadie would start off in a neighbourhood without the other. So I'm inclined to believe them. So, if they are telling the truth, then it follows that Sadie is town. Lars is more unclear, and I concede that they could be scum. Personally, I don't think so, but I'm not going to let that stop me from looking at the situation properly. And right now, the situation is that vezok is claiming one thing, we haven't heard the other side of the story from Beer yet, and we already know that those two do not get along. So simply voting Beer would be really ignorant in my opinion.

EDIT: Alright, that's more info from Vezok. Okay, that's pretty bad. And I've already said that I think you're town, vezok, so..
I still wanna hear what Beer has to say, but that's good enough for a vote from me.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Alright, evidently I should keep all flavour out my posts. Noted.

Vezok scumreads Beer. Beer does comment on the situation, saying that they had an argument and citing that as the reason for the scumread. Now, vezok claims that Beer outright claimed scum in their PT. I want to hear what Beer has to say about this.

Seriously. We all have role PMs. Read them. Varsoon obviously put effort into the flavour, and it's freaking awesome. Regardless of alignments, either they are actually Lars and Sadie, or they are both lying. That's all there is to it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Cheetory, if one of them is just a fakeclaim, then there's still no reason for them to start off in a neighbourhood together. That's what I'm saying. Lars and whoeverthefuck, or Sadie and whoeverthefuck... neither of those would work. I get that you don't believe me because you don't know the flavour but.. ugh, whatever, I don't like arguing this anymore, it's obviously not going to work.

We don't know when the alleged scum claim happened, Ricastle. I just want to hear from Beer some kind of explanation. I don't even want to be defending him but the fact that this is being jumped on with only one side having fully explained is just. it's too fast. And since everyone else seems perfectly happy with just taking things at face value then I have to be the one to make you look at the whole situation. Beer is obviously joking/half-trolling in a lot of his posts. You know how often town does stupid shit like this? All the bloody time. So I want a straight answer before we waste our Day 1 on an ugly flower instead of an actual weed.

He claimed scum pretty much. It's pretty hard to paraphrase.

Also as you can see I'm a double voter.

'Pretty much'. That's way different than the explicit accusation we just got now. Which Beer still hasn't responded to. But he also hasn't posted since it was made. So we wait. If he responds to it with more jokes and handwaves then I'm happy to vote him, but is it really gonna kill you to wait for a reply?

[MaxwellPuckett]

...I... when did I say that one couldn't be scum? I just said I don't think they're both lying about their flavour names. Just the flavour names. I said that Lars could be scum. Hell, I'm getting ready to vote him. Did you miss that?

I know Varsoon's not an idiot.

P-Edit: I didn't say that Lars couldn't be scum! I didn't say that! Holy bejeezus!

Ricastle: I'm talking about vezok saying that Beer started talking about flavour after the entry thing, and then later said that he was scum and was trying to discredit vezok. The entry thing wasn't a scum claim.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Cheetory: Okay, ignore the flavour. I'm done arguing about this. My recent arguments don't even have anything to do with that. Also, your first two sentences don't follow.. are you saying that vezok is actually Lars and Beer is Sadie, or was that just a typo? And you're still talking about how Lars could be a fakeclaim which.. still isn't what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Lars is town because it's Lars. I DID say that Sadie is town because it's Sadie.. that was a mistake.

The Beer wagon is based on Beer's stupid posts and vezok's accusations. I'm not convinced because I want to hear what Beer has to say about the accusations. Beer is one of the easiest people to lynch right now, thanks to that 'wink wink' post, is it really that strange that I'd be suspicious of the wagon???

Marquis: SU is nothing like SuperWhoLock. Also, feel free to ignore the sometimes-terrible fandom. Just watch the show, it's a good show.

I recommend KissCartoon for SU watching!

[MaxwellPuckett]

I don't WANT to talk about this anymore, but I'm not just going to drop the conversation. Or argument, or whatever. Not wanting to talk about something and then just immediately ignoring the topic is ridiculous.

I'm not saying that Lars is town because it's Lars. I DID say that Sadie is town because it's Sadie.. that was a mistake.

Wow it's almost like people change their minds about stuff when having a discussion! Wow! Look I made a mistake! Wow! You're right, okay? Maybe it's Lars and somebody fakeclaiming Sadie!! Actually there is someone else that would work with too.

Look at you, considering all the options.. I should really learn to do that. Like when I questioned the auto-labelling of Beer as scum. That was something I did. I shouldn't have done it just by looking at the flavour, and I didn't, I looked at the situation too.

Anyways this post is a mess and I'm going to go have a shower now

UNVOTE:

A vote based on your first post alone really doesn't have a place here anymore. Better vote coming after the break.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Okay, I've had my shower, and am in a much calmer mood. Sorry about my frustration. Everyone misreads on this site, including me.

Vezok, that first post (Beer's) wasn't a scumslip, if that's what you're saying. Possibilities:
1) Beer thought it was scum PT and shot himself in the foot
2) Beer misread his role PM and shot himself in the foot
3) Beer made a stupid joke and shot himself in the foot

The fact that he immediately 'corrected' himself also shows that that wasn't a scum claim. Slip, maybe, or one of the other two things. The thing you said later, that Beer said he was scum and was trying to make you look bad, THAT's a scum claim. My reading comprehension skills are just fine, we obviously just disagree.

One thing, Bins, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to talk about this game except in the appropriate threads. Or when you said you 'wanted to talk tonight', did you mean that you want to form a neighbourhood for tomorrow?

Cheetory: I DO think that Varsoon will have avoided doing things in the setup that blatantly contradict flavour. That's actively punishing those who are actually interested in the thing the game is about. I don't think that flavour will win the day. I'm sure characters have been shuffled around (maybe not all main characters are actually in the game?), and fakeclaims have been provided, but I don't think that Greg Universe will be scum, or that Ruby and Sapphire will start off in a neighbourhood together, except that one of them is actually Jasper.

If it was still RVS I would vote Reasonably Rational for speaking in a tone so pretentious I'm having trouble telling if they're sarcastic or not.

Jokes, jokes.

But seriously:

I might be tipsy, but Sonic looks really evil.

Reasonably Rational looks like a puke stain on the wall.

Grapes looks like that guy at a party who's trying too hard to impress and is actually really sleazy and someone who you should probably not befriend because they will do bad things to you after drugging you or something.

Hm.

VOTE: Sonic

Puke stain on the wall? Please, enlighten me.

Rational, you respond to the comment about you, but not the statement 'Sonic looks evil'? Actually, that whole post is a mess, but you pick out the ridiculous thing said about you, specifically.

Also, mastin: Since you're gonna be conftown later, and you can be nightkilled... maybe claiming all of that D1 wasn't the best move? You don't really have a reason to lie about your role, though, so I'm wondering why vezok jumped on that.

radmann: Ouch, I'll tone it down. I'm excited about this game! I'm excited for what Varsoon will post for flavour at day's end! But I'll try to keep it out of my actual play. Also, do you have any scumreads? Besides the vague vezok one.

I'm actually kind of torn on Beer/Vezok. Now I really want to hear from Beer, even more than before. It's probably gonna be another pun or joke or something but a guy can dream.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Yeah if anyone was reading scum it would be Mastin. Everything about his posts seem odd. And even if he's just what he claims to be, then we know that Farside is lying. So my best bet for scum read would be Mastin. Followed by Beer even though something about his posts makes me think there's a special clause or something. (Like I said, like a Jester or something if they exist in this game.)

I don't think stumps show up in the player count, which explains the 20 players (not 21) correction that Varsoon made, but that doesn't mean that it's between Farside and Mastin. So far, Mastin hasn't seemed to lie, as their votes really don't show up. They could be voteless and 'like a stump', as Mastin puts it, while not being a Stump. Actually, since Mastin said they can also be targeted by stuff and whatnot, that's even more evidence that they're not a Stump.

I wanted to vote Farside actually, but their claim holds up, for now. And, taking roles out of the equation, I'd rather vote Farside than Mastin, to be honest.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Mastin isn't claiming to be a stump. They are just voteless and conftown D3. They still show up as alive, and can be targeted and killed, unlike a tree stump. That doesn't contradict Farside. Their two claims don't actually contradict each other.

Also, I wouldn't actually vote either of them at the moment, radmann, but I'm assuming you're asking me why I find Farside scummy, right? Mostly it was their 50, but it's also the fact that they're quoting themselves in their signature. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding, don't hurt me)

I just don't like their posts, I guess, but it doesn't matter because they have a pretty legitimate stump claim.

Cheetory: I don't know Varsoon at all, but I'm pretty sure that the Jasper, Ruby and Sapphire thing I used as an example is as close to bastard that flavour can get. But you doubt Jester because

that's

too bastard? I just.. find all that hard to believe. Part of making a good theme is, as Rational said, fitting the theme to the mechanics of the game in a balanced way. I'm choosing to believe that Varsoon isn't an ass.

P-Edit: Yeah, considering mastin can be killed, I'm pretty sure they're supposed to show up in the votecount.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Treestump could be scum, yes. I'm just saying that it's not Farside vs. mastin necessarily. Their roles don't contradict so they don't HAVE to be on separate teams. They could both be town or both be scum or they could be different things. Anyways, Cheetory, I AM looking forward to postgame. Only then will we see what's what, it's true.

Radmann: The reason I got so emotional is because it felt like people weren't listening to me, mostly because two separate people told me 'one of them COULD be mafia, you know', after I'd already amended myself and agreed that yes, one of them could be mafia.

Though, uh.. I'm pretty sure if the roles were entirely based on the show, Steven is the one who'd be the doctor. But anyways, not important right now. I

Also, I think radmann was poking fun at the fact that you didn't say anything substantial about grapes.

P-Edit; Yes, he's JUST comparing his role to a treestump. The fact that he said he can be targeted for night actions and kills should be proof enough that he's not a stump. A game where a player isn't counted among the 'live' players, but can still be killed.. now that's definitely bastard.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Sorry, mastin. I really should have looked...

[MaxwellPuckett]

Pretty sure I know what's going on with Bins. Kind of wish wgeurts had held off on that claim, too. I didn't notice it until someone else mentioned it, though. Glad to see more people in the game now, anyways!

Um.. I like Titus' organization, but aren't you supposed to be in a Hydra right about now? I'm not gonna be able to keep track of three accounts for every one hydra. x.x

I like Ra9in9 Bull's entrance.

I kind of want to ally with Cheetory.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Alright, evidently I should keep all flavour out my posts. Noted.

Vezok scumreads Beer. Beer does comment on the situation, saying that they had an argument and citing that as the reason for the scumread. Now, vezok claims that Beer outright claimed scum in their PT. I want to hear what Beer has to say about this.

Seriously. We all have role PMs. Read them. Varsoon obviously put effort into the flavour, and it's freaking awesome. Regardless of alignments, either they are actually Lars and Sadie, or they are both lying. That's all there is to it.

why do you think they are both lying.
I feel like you just are fearmongering the whole situation.

This kind of sums up your case on me. The fact that you are misinterpreting my posts, and not really trying to understand them at all. Now, this post that you quoted is pretty embarassing, yes, because it was written when I was in mad flavour canon mode. Read the thing you quoted. I didn't say I thought they were both lying. I said I thought that either they were both lying, or both telling the truth, about their role names. But I was operating under the assumption that they were not lying. Please at least attempt to understand my thought process here.

Also:

All of this together is why I don't like Max. Goes from I don't believe Vezo and he could be lying to calling him town, to writing up crap reason's for disputing the whole push by Vezo.

I never said I didn't believe Vezok. I said I thought Vezok was misunderstanding the situation, I never called him a liar. My thoughts about the whole situation do change as my posts happen, though... which is kind of a natural consequence of, that thing called thinking. Reevaluating your thoughts and changing them as other people give you information.

Anyways, now that Beer has actually spoken about this in more detail, I can see where the confusion came from. Beer's posts are.. interesting. They're kind of hilarious actually, but that's besides the point. I said I was happy to vote him, but now I'm not so sure. He's been like this all game, including the neighbourhood PT I'm guessing.. it's not strange that vezok would be pushing on him like this. But I'm not sure if a town player would continue behaving like this in this situation.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Oh man, I completely missed Pawtucket's post right before mine. I actually forgot Beer was a hydra. Pawtucket, do you regret your choice of hydra partner? He's entertaining at least.

VOTE: Marquis

I should have done that earlier.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Farside: I know, that was a mistake. I'm gonna stop digging so much into the flavour, if Cheetory stops making Varsoon out to be some malevolent trickster God. Seriously though, I'll stop.

CoolDoG's catchup was fine. I don't appreciate the strikethrough of my post, but whatever, it's fine. Glad to see you're in the game now, anyways.

Marquis: Was Skybird's one post enough to completely move your vote? Does your interpretation of Skybird just asking that question for filler really outweigh your feelings about Sonic? Was your Sonic vote just a throwaway to get some reactions, or was it serious?

[MaxwellPuckett]

The double-voter alone does indicate that Vezok is town, and even without that, I'm not condemning them for scumreading Beer, even though I disagree with the case. I can see where they're coming from, basically.

Shoot, I didn't realize The Cage was in this game.

How do I live withouuttt you, I wanna know..

[MaxwellPuckett]

It's called covering all of the options. It'd be bad if we called you conftown just because of your double-voting, when you're not actually conftown.

If you wanted to pick something out of that post, how about the fact that his first sentence was that he can't tell if you're just being genuine or just going for an easy target, and his last sentence was saying that you're likely town?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Props for using the term 'fluff', though. Not like that word has been ground into bits by misuse, or anything. Are you seriously suggesting that I made that post to look like I was thinking about things, as opposed to trying to put to bed all of the misinterpretations about me? You just grabbed a post I made while in the midst of a conversation (I was frustrated at that point, I grant you) and called it fluff, even though the entire post was me responding to comments made directly at me.

You're entitled to your opinion, I was just kind of insulted. And now I'm a bit more insulted, but whatever. It's fine.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Okay then. You're right. I wasn't frustrated at all! I wasn't mad that only parts of my posts were seemingly being read, and Cheetory definitely didn't outright admit to accidentally missing something I had said. Nope, didn't happen, that post was a waste of time and I should have just let them go on thinking that I'd said something that I hadn't.

My apologies that I'm not funny when people insult my intelligence.

I'm not really annoyed now, though. I can see that you're having trouble seeing what's going on down here from your high horse.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Rational, you demanding that Tunnel gives you a full readlist

right now

would be ironic and funny IF Tunnel had asked radmann for a full readlist. They didn't, so you just end up looking like a hypocrite. They asked radmann to commit to a read instead, which is completely valid, considering radmann said 'Beer very well COULD be town, but their flip will provide info, so...'

I dislike the Beer wagon. Finding Beer scummy, that's fine, I understand it, but I'd really like a lot of you to reevaluate it, especially in light of Pawtucket's post. I don't think it'll provide as much information as you guys seem to think, especially since there isn't a competing wagon. No, Sonic and Ra9in9 Bull wagons are not competing.

P-edit: Okay, Rational made a quoting mistake, that makes more sense. I take back what I said about Rational. Also, full readlists this early on are annoying, not helpful, you're right.

Radmann is now committed to the Beer lynch. That's an admittedly better stance than the wishy-washy one from a few posts earlier.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Trench, are your two heads disagreeing or something?

'Finally the lynch I want is going through' (referring to Beer)

And then you say that Beer isn't behaving like scum, and you'd happily lynch Sonic? And this is within a few posts. Colour me confused.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I know you're speaking to Trench, but TvT is the way I see it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

OKay, so it is just your heads disagreeing. May I ask that you two sign your posts? It'll make it easier to read you.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I wouldn't have asked you to sign your posts, except, well, that blatant disagreement between your two heads is a little disorienting to read.

Also, about the flavour thing, I know, I know, I know. We've gone over it. I'm not doing it anymore. Please stop beating that horse, it's dead.

P-Edit: I don't mind playing with hydras, and I really don't care if the heads agree or not, but it's like.. really hard to read you if I don't know who's saying what.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Maybe it is, but having to actually look at your posting style to figure it out is still annoying. Titus started off signing their posts but that last one that I cited as being the reason for the my confusion was not signed. I get that it's harder to tell since you guys are actually in the hydra, but from out here it's a pain, trust me. If just Titus signed their posts, that's fine, then I know the unsigned ones are all you.

If one of you doesn't sign from this point on, I'll work to figure it out myself, I guess.

P-Edit: I don't think Beer's post was particularly mean. Where were you when CoolDog was being disagreeable?

Back to Trench: Oh, I'd love to talk about Sonic X! It's a fantastic anime, as long as you squint and pretend Chris isn't there. Oh, and the last season, that was fantas-

The player, right, the player. Better lynch than Beer, not as good of a lynch as Radmann/Ra9in9 Bull or Marquis.

They seem kind of awkward, and their claim was weird, but then again we don't know what their role is, either. At least they didn't claim their entire role like Mr. Mayor did.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Do I have a sign on my back telling people to insult me today, or something? I'm not mad, though. Nope.

Skybird: Not

always

town, but usually town. Are you just saying that to cover all of the bases, or do you actually suspect vezok?

NicCage: Did you give an opinion on Beer yet? He's the hot topic right now. What about Ricastle? Do you find them scummy, since you asked Tunnel about them?

[MaxwellPuckett]

NicCage: Ricastle's acting like we're between Sonic and Beer on lynches is ridiculous. As for Beer, my thoughts are similar, though I'm not sure waiting for anything more from Gordovan's side is going to yield anything. Fun to have in the game, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what Pawtucket has to say, because it looks like that's going to be the head that's more alignment indicative.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Varsoon's semi-random Steven Universe references/facts are the best thing about this game so far, tbh.

..The navel is a chakra point?

Apparently?

[MaxwellPuckett]

WAIT I'm calling bull on that fact, the

nose

is a chakra point?

Spoiler: Lol Visual Motifs

I think Jasper's location is most deviant so far, but some fans have argued it is aligned with the brow while others claim there is a minor chakra located at the bridge of the nose. While there's a good deal of speculation regarding the gems in relation to birthstones, chakra identities, etc. one of the primary design-motifs is that gem location typically reflects a character's basic ethos. This definitely seems to be the case for the Crystal Gems. Pearl uses her head, Garnet prefers a hands-on approach, Steven relies on his 'gut' (navel also has associations with love/umbilical cord--Rose is evoked here), and Amethyst is all about desire/following the heart. Similarly, it can be said that Lapis turns her back on things, Peridot is methodical/head-based too, and Jasper faces things head-on.

[MaxwellPuckett]

It's happened.
People are officially paranoid of me all the time now.

What are you referring to?

Also, I missed if you responded to my request for a hood with you.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I was gonna say 'Cheetory, you used that 'refuse' pun once already', but.. I guess it's something else.

Tunnel bringing up a possible crumb is weird, though. That's generally not something you do when the crumber is still alive, bruv.

Also, it's cool, Cheetor.

And farside: Treating unconfirmed people as confirmed is dangerous. Super dangerous. Treating them as 'basically' confirmed is fine, though. That's where you actually look at play. What's up with everybody always calling this behaviour 'fearmongering' when it's just making sure town isn't throwing out 'confirmed' passes left and right?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Varsoon, you've got Trench Warfare both voting and not voting.

Fixed it. Thanks for the heads-up.

I'm liking the small Radmann wagon. Lynching that is also fine with me, if I can't get Marquis votes.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I think I'm finally developing an appreciation for Marquis' humour.

Anyways, I'm of the opinion that meta is only useful for players who've been established on the site for some time. Newer players change meta nearly every game in order to find their niche.

CoolDog's presentation of their opinions as fact is annoying. Literally everyone on this site disagrees about meta, get over it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm a player whose primary method of scum hunting is reading heavily into what (I think is) the underlying motivation behind the things someone writes (in case that wasn't already obvious from the things I'm saying about Sonic, for example).

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

Skybird, Beer just described their scum-hunting method.

Did you get confused because Gordovan (i think?) said that there's no point in looking into his weird posting style as scum-motivated or town-motivated. As scum, there's little motivation to basically joke that you're scum, unless you're a non-scum role or in a game where there's a Jester. And this game was advertised as non-bastard. But anyways, that's not the point. As town, there's also no reason to do it... so you kind of have no choice but to take it as a posting quirk and be done with it.


Who was it that said that Beer was doing the jekyll-and-hyde thing as a scum plot? I need to find that post, it made me laugh.

P-EDIT: Okay, Beer explained it in a better way than I just did.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Something about quoting a relatively unimportant line and saying that validated me seemed out of place. I thought from the beginning that Beer was either a bastard role with the purpose of getting themselves intentionally lynched. Then the other part showed up and just seemed very much like a Jeckyll and Hyde type of monster that someone mentioned. One head ridiculously over the top, the other head calm.

It seems like the first head was screwing around only for the other head to come in and clear everything up just read scum.

Nearly everyone has commented on Beer thus far. So, with another read through, could reveal a lot about everyone. Whether they voted for beer, disregarded him entirely, or voted him innocent all along.

Oh. Yep, it was Radmann.

Speaking of, Rad, you're referring to the Beer head situation in the past tense. Do you still think this is what's happening?

[MaxwellPuckett]

grapes: Was referring to Ra9in9 Bull's 205, not their actual entrance. I think that their first post was too tasteless for me to register. I think I said I liked it because they were one of the first to call attention to Radmann, who I'd kind of ignored before then? I don't remember the exact reason, but it was definitely because of what they said to/about Radmann. None of the other bits of that post are standing out as anything besides fluff.

Tunnel: I thought you'd already decided on a bloc to make. Unless you're asking for changes to be suggested?

I don't have any experience with neighbourhoods so I wouldn't know how to use a role like yours. Private discussions that can be held away from scum sound good, though, but the size of your neighbourhood will make that more difficult. The season finale ability seems like the best thing about it.

P-Edit: I agree. Tunnel, are they in your neighbourhood chain?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Whoever said that you should probably focus on getting towny people in there, instead of people you're unsure about, was right. I don't remember who.

Unless you're confident in your ability to sort once they're in a smaller group?

[MaxwellPuckett]

When the Bins/Marquis joke was made, I immediately checked the playerlist to see what was what.

Farside: Good to know.

Varsoon, grapes is voting two people. They made two votes in one post, but the Cheetory one was later. Or did they have two votes to give out?

As far as I am aware, the latest Vote Count is correct.
Grapes is voting for both Cheetory6 and Ra9in9 Bull, as per the votes cast in post 466

[MaxwellPuckett]

I wasn't expecting a second double-voter. It's exciting, though!

The odds of scum double-voter just went up, too, which I don't like so much, but recent Farside is good and I've not had a problem with grapes so far, so no need to pick at that.

Ra9in9 Bull: What the hell did Trench do to make you take a vote away from Radmann?

P-Edit: Does that actually happen a lot, Trench?

Fro99er, what's your stance on this? I've only played one game with you but you were a lot more vocal in that one.

[MaxwellPuckett]

It's that bad? Do you have links to this?

[MaxwellPuckett]

That's enough evidence for me, but I've yet to see ika actually explain the vote.

And would still love to hear from fro99er whenever he's done his reread.

...I feel like we've been in this situation already this game.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I guess Smite mafia is what I'm reading tonight.

Also, ew, ear infections hurt, a lot. Nice that you're recovering now.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Don't fall into the trap of being afraid to go into it, and then townreading him as a result. If you think you can't read ZZZX, read Metal. That's one nice thing about a hydra.

Ra9in9: I disagree on the Marquis vs. Skybird. Skybird hasn't said anything super compelling, but Marquis' Skybird vote was just as empty as Marquis is claiming Sky to be. Skybird is asking a legitimate question, and while it'd be nice to see them looking at the game more, they are still asking questions and trying to determine thought processes. Are you against Skybird because they haven't put a vote down yet? An empty vote for the sake of a vote is worse.

P-Edit: Catch up and put em up, Fluminator, whenever you have time.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Are you against Skybird because they haven't put a vote down yet? An empty vote for the sake of a vote is worse.

No...where did I say that?

You didn't say it anywhere, I was just casting around for an explanation as to why you'd be for Marquis and against Skybird. Not that I think either of them are much good, but at least Skybird is doing

something

.

Yeah, skybird simply asks beer how beer scumhunts. This is the exchange

Beer, how would you describe your scum hunting style then? If you think looking at town or scum motivation is silly, what do you look for in determining who is town and who is scum?

No, I think suggesting

everything

must have town

or

scum motivation is silly.

OK, I see. Thanks.

Skybird just leaves it. Was skybird really interested in how beer scumhunts? If so, why not follow up on getting beer to answer that question? Or was skybird just asking it to ask it, and not actually care what the answer to the scumhunting part was?


I also didn't explain the ZZZX/Marquis deal enough. I've played with them twice. Once with them as a scumpair, the other with them as a townpair. In both cases, they seemed to play off each other and just come right out and say this is town ZZZX or town Marquis. I'm not getting that here, which makes me think that they are of different alignments. ZZZX additionally as scum would discredit people's methods of scumhunting him. So when Ricastle says he'll use PoE, and ZZZX discredits the PoE method (which is actually really an associative), it's something I notice.

Skybird asked for clarification, and got it. Beer already answered the question of how he scumhunts, as I pointed out. There's no followup question that Sky needs to ask. Your argument is exactly the same as Marquis' regarding Sky and it's just boring.

I still want Sky to come out with some actual reads. Luckily for Sky, voting for bull reasons ranks slightly higher on my list of scumtells than not giving opinions at all.

As for ZZZX/Marquis, I don't know their meta. Are you saying that your Marquis townread is based off of your Sonic X scumread?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Steven and Onion are supposedly preformed by the same actor!

Spoiler:

Holy shit Varsoon

BEHOLD THE READS

Ask me if you want specifics blah blah lazy blah.

Town
MaxwellPuckett
TunnelWarriors
vezokpiraka
Reasonably Rational
Marquis

Null-Town
Trench Warfare
CooLDoG
grapes
NicCage

Null
Cheetory6
Beer
farside22
mastin2
Fluminator

Null-Scum
TheFuzzylogic99
Skybird
Bins

Scum
Ra9in9 Bull
Sonic X
radmann9

Alright, I feel like I have some sort of grasp on this game now. Bins, why did you show interest in alliance in 137 and then go on to post 171?

I didn't ISO the people I already had a read on so I should probably do that. Later.

Why Bins scumread and Marquis townread?

maxwell is still kind of hilarious.

i'm not sure where his experience level/mindset is with regards to what he expects scum to do vs. what scum realistically do. but. lol sorry i'm not trying to make a "lol ur a noob" comment because i hate those too but i'm kind of sick of all the incorrect assumptions regarding how/what scum play/are motivated to do, as well as the whole "marquis isn't drenching the game in useless excess questioning (because other people are already doing enough of that so it feels good to sit back and try and slowly sort through reads instead) so yeah he's probably scum"

well i mean

you're right in that my play could totally come from scum

but to be blunt it's more likely i'm town who doesn't really care about people scumreading me (other than this whole thing about being amused by maxwell - who ftr i would like to say i'm currently leaning town on, if it weren't for how i've been seeing scum these kinds of realistically bs pushes lately) than scum who realized i've been fluffing and didn't really do anything noteworthy for a while to address the scumreads
sorry i just have a bit more faith in my scumgame than that

Marquis you're just giggling at me, expecting me to just find a townread from you without supplying anything for me to work with besides admitting that you're fluffing, and admitting that you're making excuses, as if 'yeah i already know i haven't done anything so your comments mean nothing' somehow means you're town? If you know you're full of it, then do something. You keep saying 'wait, wait' but you've yet to find something in-thread to care about. I'm tired of the aloof better-than-you attitude. Not to mention the lack of questioning people who are actually townreading you for some reason.. I'm trying to understand what you're doing here. What aspects of your play am I supposed to be seeing as

not

scummy? Defend yourself instead of telling me to be psychic.

UNVOTE:

Voting you didn't do anything but hopefully you'll have something constructive to say about this. You believe you're town so convince me dammit

Bins: Why do you think Ricastle is scumreading you?

CoolDog: We agree on Radmann but what do you think about Marquis?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Bins: Why do you think Ricastle is scumreading you?

No idea. I haven't done anything yet. I'm also not caught up yet because I spent too long playing Borderlands... sales make me lazy, yay. And seeing rage makes me nope out of things.

My only guess would be he thought it was weird/fake/empty/attention-draggy that I was asking who wanted to be allied w/ me when he thought I couldn't even be in an alliance. I would think that would be weird too. I'm surprised he's the only person that pointed that out.

But yeah, can ally, just can't be targeted because I'm special.

So you don't see your lack of game-related talks, besides those regarding your role, as something people would scumread you for?

Well, I ask this now but Ricastle has already said that was why they were scumreading you, but you don't seem to be worried about it. You've been active enough in this game (in a fluffy sense) but haven't really commented on what's been going on, and there has been plenty of discussion happening. What you need to catch up on is basically just the Ra9in9 Bull drama, but the things I'd actually like to hear about happened before that.

[MaxwellPuckett]

All of fuzzy's role questions just look like he's trying to do what Reasonably Rational is. While I don't have an opinion on Rational's insistence on the double and multi-voters giving in-thread proof of their roles, (I don't think they're lying, and both of them having the exact same voting abilities would be weird anyways, also it'd be risky to lie because one could accidentally slip up) I understand why they're doing it. They wanna know, whatever.

But almost immediately after that, fuzzy asks all these super in-depth questions which just sound strange, but their paranoia surrounding grapes seems kinda genuine. I'm not sure I could see that coming from scum.

VOTE: Bins
Tell me why you're scumreading NicCage.

If Marquis is scum, they're very cool-headed scum. But I'm leaning.. null, idk, maybe I need to watch them more, but I don't feel good about voting them.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Anyway...

Open invitation to all to talk about fuzzy/cage/rr/tunnelwarriors/skybird/ragingbull

mainly for anyone in this game trying to lynch scum today.

Yea I know there's too many names but I think it's a decent pool to start from.

Bins bare-bones response to my question aside (they voted Cage after Cage got a vote.. come on, why is Cage even in this list?), I appreciate grapes trying to get some focus in here.

Bins, do you have anything else to say about NicCage besides that? That vote just screams 'I'm looking for a reason to vote'.

Fuzzy: I don't know anything about fuzzy's meta, but I still disagree with farside. I think their paranoia and subsequent apology was pretty genuine. I don't like the fuzzy wagon.

Cage: I don't see enough material for a scumread and the posts he has are just questions. Bins says he didn't follow-up but like.. he hasn't posted yet??? It's been just a day.

Rational: It's hard for me to have an opinion on Rational. At first I thought their questions were pretty normal but the post where they complained that vezok wasn't doing the vote-test thing in the

exact order

they asked about...? Like, calm down. The unwillingness to ever pull back that they're showing looks to me like scum who doesn't want to appear indecisive, which I've seen a lot of people in this thread get called scum for. ('Asking questions but not following up', is something I've seen called scum behaviour twice now.)

Tunnel: Grapes, why is tunnel in here? I haven't seen you suspecting him. I'm not sure what you mean by 'white minivan', either, but you used it in context with Tunnel's alliance powers.

Skybird: I defended their actions from Marquis earlier, and right now they're kinda nulltown. I guess they can be in the lynchpile but a lot of the motivation for voting Sky appears to be 'I don't

feel

like they're being genuine', and not a lot of actual evidence. Also I feel they are being genuine so make of that what you will.

Ra9in9 Bull: Hasn't posted since the thing with ika. Experience with Fro99er tells me they usually post a lot, but there may also be RL things going on there, considering the thread meltdown.

I think everyone should look at Bins again, but if that isn't going anywhere than Ra9in9 Bull/radmann/Reasonably Rational is a better lynchpool for me. Farside is saying that fuzzy's meta says scum, but I dislike voting on meta alone, especially from word of mouth. I think fuzzy is earnest town.

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

Skybird, do you have an alliance for tonight yet? If Skybird says no, I'm asking Marquis.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Bins bare-bones response to my question aside (they voted Cage after Cage got a vote.. come on, why is Cage even in this list?), I appreciate grapes trying to get some focus in here.

Bins, do you have anything else to say about NicCage besides that? That vote just screams 'I'm looking for a reason to vote'.

Actually, no.

Bare votes make people squirm more.

See? You're doing it.

A single vote isn't going to make anybody squirm right now, it's too late in the day. That's why I unvoted you, it was brought up that only multiple votes on someone are going to get us anywhere.

And, uh.. my vote wasn't bare. Did you read the post it came from?

Skybird: Cool!

[MaxwellPuckett]

Bins bare-bones response to my question aside (they voted Cage after Cage got a vote.. come on, why is Cage even in this list?), I appreciate grapes trying to get some focus in here.

Bins, do you have anything else to say about NicCage besides that? That vote just screams 'I'm looking for a reason to vote'.

Actually, no.

Bare votes make people squirm more.

See? You're doing it.

I thought the 'you're doing it' referred to a bare vote of mine. I see now you were referring to me 'squirming'.

[MaxwellPuckett]

The radmann wagon has stalled because he's MiA. Has he been prodded yet? I'm unwilling to vote him right now because nothing would come of it until he came back. I guess his reaction to a large wagon on him upon his return would be good, though, so I'm considering it.

And if he replaces, that's still a good opportunity to get something out of said replacement.

Drixx, you implied that you don't normally have scum reads D1. Was that a half-joke about Fluminator, or is it true?

[MaxwellPuckett]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Radmann

Fuzzy: Rational isn't really pushing for a lynch for either grapes or vezok. They were pushing grapes for being uncooperative, but they seem to have changed their mind on that.

And, my question wasn't answered directly, but it was answered. Anyways, upon a short RR iso, I think my Rational judgement was wrong. They're continuing to defend their actions because to them, those actions make sense. Also, I like how they were talking to Farside, I don't know if you can fake that concealed annoyance. Like, Rational is trying to be the good guy, but they're kind of fed up with the accusations.

I don't think I'd been reading Rational as well as I should, and maybe I'd been focusing too much on their grapes/vezok thing and less on what else they'd been doing.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Huh, three people promising to catch up on one page.

But RL makes fools of us all so whatever. And there's not much that can be done about technical difficulties besides apologizing for em, anyhow.

Farside, you're opposed to a RB lynch because it's easy? Fuzzy is just as easy of a lynch, if not more so because they're posting actively. What makes RB easy and Fuzzy not?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Ra9ing: I didn't find what Marquis had to say about Skybird particularly towny, but you're right in that after that post where they talked directly to me (the first post you quoted), they started to post more critical thoughts about the game. That post you quoted from Marquis is actually where I started to doubt my scumread.

As for Bins, that's different than Marquis. Not sure why you quote me talking to Bins and then proceed to talk about Beer, and then Marquis. Bins is a different player and their situation is different. They don't contribute to discussion beyond voting with no explanation. I know they said it's to provoke a response but that's not what I see them trying to do. They don't wait for a response before changing their vote (see Sonic to NicCage, and then NicCage to RR), so I fail to see the point in voting if you're not going to follow-up on it. I don't think they actually care how people are reacting to the votes.

[MaxwellPuckett]

NicCage, what changed your Ricastle scumread to a slight townread?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Tunnel, read the thread bro. Everyone else had to.

Is this scum because of what was said about mastin being untruthful? I have no way of knowing whether this is true but Marquis said the same thing. Is there a reason you're on fuzzy for this, but not Marquis?

Am I completely wrong about the reason for you quoting fuzzy here?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Alright, I'll hold off on questions until you're done with the read through. I didn't realize how far back that fuzzy post was.

[MaxwellPuckett]

People begin to voice Radmann scumreads, then Radmann disappears. That's pretty newbscum. Also, I'm expecting a replacement for that slot before the day is out, so we still have time to see a reaction to the wagon.

And by @Trench I mean @Tunnel

I keep messing up the two TW hydras

And that's why I don't abbreviate player names to two letters.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm really disliking the fuzzy votes. Town makes mistakes, and I really haven't seen anything from fuzzy that looks like some kind of scum agenda. They're just... making a lot of confused posts and I think as scum fuzzy would have more of a filter up. His reads change from post to post, and not in the scum-contradictory way, it's in the 'I have not made up my mind at all' way.

A lot of how I feel about fuzzy is hard to explain, I think at first it was just my natural reaction to seeing votes on lynchbait, but the more I read fuzzy the more I think he really isn't scum. Particularly what he said about his questions later, and his original thought process for putting them down. "I think I'd compare them to my own role', and how he realized later that it was a very, very bad idea to do so. Fuzzy is town, move on.

[MaxwellPuckett]

[MaxwellPuckett]

What scum motivation do you see from fuzzy, then? I see mistakes and being unsure of reads. Is that scum motivation?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Beer: Lars, and a hated townie, apparently. Beer could be lying about being hated. But that's kind of a dumb lie. If you are actually run up to L-2 as hated and you aren't lynched, you're still gonna be lynched. And I'm convinced the Lars isn't a fakeclaim because vezok.

I don't want to say this because I already got enough backlash about it but... Hated Townie. Lars. It's so obvious I'm actually kind of doubting it but...

I've never really thought Beer was scum, and now there's this nice wagon. And it's the same as the Radmann/Replace In wagon. Beer can't defend himself, he isn't here. Replace In is, and they've yet to finish reading through the game.

What's with all the jump offs after Replace In pthere'?? It's not like it was anything substantial or super town. I've get to hear there thoughts on the recent game.

Sonic, Skybird is allying with me tonight. Ally with NicCage.

I will be V/LA this weekend and I don't know if I'll have internet or not. It's bad timing but unavoidable. I'll be back Sunday evening, so I'll still be able to review the game before days end.

[MaxwellPuckett]

So it looks my hotel actually has reliable WiFi. Cool.

Varsoon, scratch that V/LA, I've got internet after all.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Ricastle: aight, I missed that. I just saw Sonic looking for an ally and NicCage asking for one as well.

Trench: vezok did paraphrase the Beer scum claim thing in a recent post.

Vezok said they were told Beer's role name in a PM from Varsoon. I wanna know if Beer was told the same thing about vezok.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Verzok, do you still think beer is scum? I know part of the reason I'm resisting following you on that wagon is you seem to want everyone to agree with you and vote without you giving us the information we have asked for. You complain that you have paraphrased Beer's posts from the PT over and over but in post 923 (I think) I pointed out you only did it once. I don't understand your reluctance to helping us understand why you are so sure Beer is scum.

I'll explain one more time.

I post in the Pt saying that I want beer to be town. He comes in and says he is scum and then says he meant town 3 hours before posting the thread. After that I tell him I'm going after him for the terrible entry. He says he doesn't care and starts laughing in the PT that he is scum and he will get people away from his wagons just by posting a lot of stuff. The sane head said that he will talk to be about his reads and asked me if I believe them. I told them I will discuss their reads even though I think they are scum and will convey them in thread after they flip town. They proceed to talk about nothing.

After his wagon dies and people stop being interested in him he falls of the Earth.

I'm pretty sure he is scum, but I don't think anyone cares about him anymore. There are about two people who say I haven't provided enough information for them even though I did and other people who seem to not acknowledge the existence of beer.

When did I say his flavour claim was his scum claim?

Anyways, this is it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I don't think alliances can hurt anything, so I think if you want to be in one you should find a partner. But I am think the people who want to be allied have mostly taken care of that already.

I've already been told not to examine meta so I won't. But Beers two heads + Gordovans joke scum posts in thread and in-alliance + they are confirmed by vezok's PM to be Lars... = town.

I still want to hear whether Beer was told by PM that vezok was Sadie or not. But I dunno if they're coming back before day's end.

[MaxwellPuckett]

*examine meta is not what I meant there. Should be flavour. This is why I don't like posting from my phone.

[MaxwellPuckett]

V/LA this weekend. May or may not have internet, I'll find out when I get to my destination.

Don't have a lot of time, unfortunately, but fuzzy is still town.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Also, pretty sure that Cheet was janned, and their role was Ruby. Sapphire died because lover.

If cheet was anyone else, we would also have a dead Ruby.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Oh, also.

VOTE: Bins

But I'd be down for a Fro99er Lynch too, if that meta is as damning as you all say. But I wanna see if they'll continue to post content now that they aren't the main counterwagon.

If you want a vote that doesn't think they're getting scum, check Bins.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Whatever Sonic was attempting to do, we don't know until he comes back and claims something. Lying about a gladiate is kind of stupid, but maybe it was for a reaction, I dunno.

Fro99er, to answer your question, so far flips have been spot on for flavour. Unfortunately we haven't seen any scum flips so far so I don't know how much it carries over.

Mass nameclaim and then lynch B roles, as was suggested... I don't think it's a great idea. One, I really doubt Varsoon would make the game that breakable. What happens if all the bit parts are town? Secondly, all of our Crystal Gems (besides Ruby and Sapphire) will now be targets, and looking at Sapphire, they have nice abilities. Particularly we don't want Steven outed.

I'm just answering questions I've seen today. Later tonight I'm gonna go through the thread and see what's what with wagons and flips.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm pretty sure I know who Binsy is, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

But, forcing ones way into a PT and then threatening people seems like a D- scum strategy at best.

But, Bins (or their replacement if that happens, really sorry that something happened to mess up your enjoyment of the game) is gonna stay on my watchlist because of who I think their role is, and who they could also be if I'm wrong.

And I wanna see how people treat this situation, too.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Okay, 1, Constantine, what team are you referring to when you say you're not sure if your role hurts your team or your alliance?

Secondly, is it fair that I'm a bit pissed that I was totally blindsided for calling Lars town based on being in a PT with Sadie and being Lars? And vezok is calling a Rose Quartz claim unbelievable?

Anyways, Varsoon has stated that any material from season one of the show, as well as any surrounding material, including video games, is up for grabs. So yeah.

Going entirely by flavour, ascetic Rose Quartz makes sense and so does gladiator light prism. Light prism is a boss you fight in the game. Like 5 times or something. Gladiate.

I want to look at their actual exchange but normally I have multiple tabs open for that. I'm in my phone and lacking time and I have half a mind to just ignore the game until my vacation is up but its nice to read up at night.

Vezok, you're town but I don't trust your judgement. And yes, my townread is based on you being confirmed Sadie. Don't like it? Someone give me an argument as to why Sadie could be a scum role and get back to me.

[MaxwellPuckett]

So, a lot of shit happened. Like a lot. It was fun to read until I saw Ricastle's dayvig.

I intended this to be a catchup post but like.. I'm just really annoyed because all of the people who are being ridiculous are town. Even Constantine looks town now. I can't think of a reason for scum to do what they did. I hate catchup posts (I AM caught up, I just don't feel like writing because there's so much I'm kind of.. ehhh, about)

I'm gonna force myself to go over all this though

Ricastle, like, what

If it is, *shrug*, you just killed a mass jailkeeper alliance maker. GG

Why the fucking hell did you claim dayvig? Just tell me that. Did you actually think you wouldn't get countervigged?

So, by your logic, why the hell would Tunnel have publicly claimed dayvig anyways? And if you really didn't think they were lying, then why would you shoot them? You thought that there couldn't be two town dayvigs in one game, so Tunnel had to be lying, or scum dayvig? Or did you only think they were lying until after you shot them?

I'm reading it again and I guess you really thought they were scum, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. But honestly it seems like a decision made emotionally and not because you have some agenda.. it's too stupid to be scum.

Constantine, I still don't understand your thought process. Ricastle I can kind of understand, emotions and what-not, but you basically holding people hostage, that I don't get. I'm just.. I don't think I can deal with this right now, I'm trying but there's so much guhhh

Mayor Dewey was a cool role and so was his commuter ability. Commuter! That's sweet. I'm annoyed it's gone for a dumb reason

I don't think fuzzy is going to be useful to this game at all. They're town and that's the only reason I don't want them lynched, but there is also literally no way fuzzy is going to be nightkilled. I GUESS they have to be dealt with somehow?? I don't know, i don't like PL either.

I also don't know if there's a vig in this game or not, it's super likely though, and that's the best target I can think of. A fuzzy lynch is a policy lynch though, that's all there is to it.

I don't remember if we're still arguing about that, but I don't think Sonic is lying about being gladiator

I'm not great at catchups, I'm coming to realize. Constantine, Fro99er, Replace In. These are nice lynch targets. If you want my opinion on something else feel free to ask, I do have a lot of opinions but a lot of them are 'this person has done something i don't like and also they are probably town', and those are just so disheartening I don't want to list them

Vezok, you mentioned flavour and then said you wanted me back to posting? Is there something you wanted me to weigh in on? There's a lot going on, flavour-wise, but I'm only gonna talk about flavour in response to questions or if I think it points to somebody being for sure town or scum. For example, vezok is town because flavour.

I'll be around for the rest of the night to answer questions, anyways.

NicCage, you'd do well to google some roles. I saw you asking about redirector yesterday and guessing on gladiator today. The Mafia wiki has descriptions of everything you'd need to know.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I didn't mean to post that, I wasn't done

I wanted to end that by saying that I have no problem with any of you. Anything I say about players in this game is purely in this game, please nobody take offense, I'm just kind of annoyed that I wasn't here when all of this was happening, and that vigs continue to always, always, always have itchy trigger fingers. But I have no problem with Ricastle and I don't mean to insult.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I first thought Constantine was town when I first started my read (that catchup is a mess), that was about when they said they would take back their alliance-exploding thingy, but by the end of it I had to go back to my original read. I just couldn't think of why scum would do what Constantine did, but it also doesn't make sense to do it as town, so that line of thinking fell apart pretty rapidly. That whole post is just my thoughts as they came to me with no editing, and so I can see why I missed putting some important ones down, particularly those dealing with how my thought went from A to B.

NicCage was someone I brought up to Skybird as not being able to sort, yesterday. Skybird may have the been the one to bring him up, I don't remember now. Or early today, I don't remember. Their lack of actual scumreads (I think the closest read they have is on Fro99er, and they admit to waffling on that), is something I noticed. I feel like NicCage is getting attention not because they've done anything particularly scummy or towny, but because people are noticing that NicCage hasn't been the topic of any discussions, so they want to address him. The only reason he was on my radar at all was because of the scumreads that actually made me look at his play.

I agree with Nic about fuzzy being the VI, but I don't see how he can't tell that fuzzy isn't faking.

At the end of the day he's nullscum I guess. NicCage, do you have any reads you feel super strongly about? Also, why do you ask about roles in-thread when you have a google machine right in front of you?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Constantine, it's like... wow, it's real hard to call someone scum without 'attacking them'. I don't think anyone has said anything mean-spirited that hasn't been addressed, though.

NicCage: I just google 'role name mafia wiki' and you can find anything, unless it's a one-time thing invented for a game. BUt you bring up a good point. There really aren't any scum characters that would use the laser light cannon, I hadn't actually considered that when thinking about Ricastle, which is weird because I'm usually all over that.

Only Greg and the Crystal Gems even know the activation codes! No room for a fakeclaim.

Calling someone genuine is hard to back up with evidence, it's just.. look at all their posts. I'm not attacking people for scumreading fuzzy, I get it, I guess I just don't see where people are getting that he's faking his demeanor. Like.. maybe,

maybe

he's just that bad as scum, but anyone saying that he's acting dumb as a way to get rid of suspicion are fooling themselves. Also, that's very obviously not working.. I doubt he would keep trying. I want someone to accuse fuzzy of being scum, and use something that isn't 'he's an idiot bruh', if they're going to accuse him at all.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Rational, Ricastle is town. Seriously, supply me with a character that could use the Laser Light Cannon that is in any capacity scum. That's how you clear someone via flavour.

Also, Rational, are you trying to convince us to PL Ricastle, or is he still scum to you? I'm having a hard time telling.

Grapes, how is Skybird your best vote right now? You said yourself that there at least a few people that you could lynch today, apparently, so why are you wasting your time with a vanity wagon?

P-Edit: I saw that vid going around on tumblr a few weeks ago, it's fun

[MaxwellPuckett]

Grapes: ISO Varsoon and you'll see who I'm voting. Surprise, it's Constantine.

I'll ask a different but related question. Who are all these people who would make a good lynch?

[MaxwellPuckett]

So, during an Episode 3 climax, that's when we can submit two names instead of one, and if we're successful, we can have up to a 3 person alliance during the Season Finale, aka Episode 4?

Anyways, grapes

Constantine, Fro99er, Replace In. These are nice lynch targets. If you want my opinion on something else feel free to ask, I do have a lot of opinions but a lot of them are 'this person has done something i don't like and also they are probably town', and those are just so disheartening I don't want to list them

Are you satisfied now? I can see why you wouldn't have seen this, it was from a larger post, but whatever.

To add, Replace In had really done nothing to make me reconsider, until they said their Lion claim cleared Fro99er. This seems kind of a ridiculous strategy as scum trying to clear scum, that falls apart as soon as one of them is lynched, so I really doubt they're both scum. Replace In is higher on the lynch-branch than Fro99er, anyways, whose play has picked up since leaving the hydra. Meanwhile, Replace In's has kind of stagnated.

Fro99er: Grapes' Beer vote doesn't say anything, it was a vote anyone who was online at the time would have made.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Just read up from yesterday and.. I wanna interact with someone.

Grapes, you're so sure of your Skybird read, and you told me not to be the vote police, but maybe you could just.. tell us where you're going with the Skybird vote? Is it a wagon or not? Is a it a super secret gambit? You can just say that you're trying to get Skybird lynched, I don't know why you got all defensive when I asked about it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Okay!

For the last time, my role isn't a vannilalizer. It only removes x shot abilities. After tonight it will most likely be powerless.

This is disingenuous.

1) Assumes people have roles with shots they're going to want to use quickly.
2) Assumes peoples shots aren't going to regenerate, even though the setup clearly indicated some do.
3) Insinuates that you can only do this once, even though it's entirely possible your shots recharge like others do.

Why did you clarify that your ability only removes limited shots?

Finally, why are you working to make yourself appear non-threatening? Scum will determine your threat level independently of any assertions you make here, by deciding how likely they think it is you'll invade a neighborhood they're part of AND think they're scum AND be willing to say fuck you to the other person in there. It seems like the only people you'd want to appear non threatening to are town...and that makes me feel uncertain in my town read on you.

So, Constantine is scum and I still have to talk about this, because apparently this is making you uncertain of your townread on Constantine. Is this one comment really enough to shake your read, even a little? Like, all the other stuff that's been going on, and this is what makes you say 'hm, maybe I have to rethink Constantine..."

1) You're assuming Constantine is being disingenuous, as opposed to having a lack of knowledge.
2) They clarified their ability only removes limited shots because it does. Are you saying you would have received them better if they'd covered up information?
3) They're not saying that they can only do this once. They're saying their role will probably not be useful again because the limited-shot abilities have already been used. Did I miss where they said that their ability is limited shot?
Those points you've put down as evidence for that Constantine knows more than they are saying here are kind of weak. Why did you feel the need to outline them? There's being analytical, and then there's just being nit-picky.

And finally:
Why is this only 'making your townread uncertain'. Why isn't Constantine scum?

[MaxwellPuckett]

There's no gain for scum i can see from the way bins entered the pt, and then the way the situation was handled from that point forward.

Why expose the existence of a secondary power to *3* other players? What does the slot get out of it, other than a boatload of attention? Then, when Constantine came in, again, why threaten us. I really don't see how anything in that sequence of events notably benefits scum, in a way that outweigh the risk of just getting outright lynched. They saw the day before that just a single person pressuring and harping on about scummy behavior in a PT got someone lynched. What they did was the exact same, except to 3 slots, not just one.

In addition...knowing that tunnel wasn't on your team, and had announced the ability to gather up 5 total people in one giant alliance in one night...why wouldn't you just take the opportunity to join the group *that* night, if you were willing to sacrifice the slot(which is the only thing those threats they made seemed likely to accomplish), and make sure none of your teammates are in there(or maybe *one* teammate is in there, who wouldn't lose anything from your power), and blow up all of them? Assuming bins/saint is scum, and actually has the power stated, why would they use it so poorly?

The only marginal evidence i can see for the chance of that slot being scum, is if that power actually didn't exist, and they were making a gambit to rolefish people..

.but with the environment in our pt, if they had just managed to win our confidence, it's very likely we were have all been working together with few reservations, if not for the hostility displayed by that slot. And even if it was a gambit...again, the potential gains aren't worth losing a member over. So, again, it just doesn't make much sense for scum to play it at all that way.

Now, as to why that post makes me question him(even a tiny bit(which is about how much it's making me question him)), is that

I feel like the post is designed to, as I said, minimize his threat.

It sounds like it could be meant to make town think "Oh. That's not as bad as I thought it was. We don't need to PL this slot because it's too dangerous if he gets it wrong," while simultaneously explaining why scum wouldn't shoot him...because, again, it's not *that* threatening. It feels very self serving, in the guise of giving out extra information.

You say that the only way he could be scum in your eyes is if the power was a gambit... but you think that's unlikely, as you've explained. However, it's 'the chance of that slot being scum', so..

If you believe that the post is designed to make Constantine look less threatening, why make that original fake role-destruction gambit at all?

The only thing I could think of for your narrative is that town Constantine made a mistake, and is now backpedaling and trying to make himself look less threatening than he originally presented himself to be. That seems kind of silly, because Constantine's whole original plan was to protect himself by threatening to blow up everybody.

I'm seeing it as scum trying to stay alive in what they thought was a hostile environment (your PT), and then changing tactics once the conversation was brought to the thread (undoing the threat of blowing up a portion of someone's role).

pedit: I think I need to look at the circumstances, because I was really more focused on the interaction between grapes and skybird, but I'd be willing to nakedly vote niccage myself if I were to iso him and find out that the accusations people are making towards him seem reasonable. I mean, would it have been better if he just went and quotes the post where someone else made a case against niccage, and then voted? that's basically what he's done, except he waited for you to ask him before he specified the reason why he voted.

Farside did the same thing with the Replace In vote. Is that situation different to you?

Fuzzy: Constantine's too busy with trying not to die to be worried about making cases.
Fuzzy, what do you think about everyone's accusations/complaints against you, saying that you're just looking at the surface of events as they happen, and not thinking too deeply about, well, anything. Does it make you want to change your play? Are you alright with how you've been playing? I mean, you've already said a lynch against you was justified.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I only have what you guys say about the PT to know how threatening or non-threatening it was, but you said here that both Drixx and Titus wanted to lynch Constantine for invading the PT. You say that scum wouldn't have reacted like that, but isn't it possible for a scared scum to take that (Drixx and Titus wanting them lynched) as a threat, particularly if said scum thought one of the townies in there had a dayvig?

And about Farside + Constantine's votes.. is there anything wrong with seeing a case you like and following it? Is it objectively bad to do so? Not at all. When that's all you do, that's when it becomes an issue, but the single act of doing so isn't really scummy. I think that's what you were originally saying in response to fuzzy, though, Cerb. That there isn't much one can do when they see a case they like besides 1) make a naked vote in response to that case, or 2) quote the case and then vote.

Well, one can also do 3) Try to find more evidence for the case, and add to it, which can either be to get more pressure on a wagon you like (town), or to avoid being called a sheep (scum).

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm also totally behind a Replace In lynch. If that one ends up having more traction that Constantine, I'll move.

That said, I've already explained my read on Constantine but I can make like a full-on detailed case later today, and I guess you'll be doing so as well, Titus.

Also: Chief and chieftain are totally synonyms. Unless you have a source that says otherwise?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Farside, I'm not seeing the arguing you keep talking about. I think I'm seeing a lot of game-related arguing, but nothing toxic or anything. Could you point out the TvT arguments that you think are hurting the game right now?

Also, Bookitty, you should definitely watch more of Steven Universe! I'm glad you like it!

Oh, and Cerb: I guess I didn't see exactly how things went down, but from Constantine's explanation, them saying they were threatened, I'm thinking that they definitely overreacted to whatever pressure they thought was on them. Maybe I'd see the townread you're talking about if Constantine took some interest in something besides their own role/guessing that Flum's replacement would vote them. Replace In, I'd love to see you at least attempt to do the same. Mastin as well. Like, all love and power to you guys but.. read the game. And just.. say something about it? Anything? At least fuzzy is trying!

The only reason I'm not on Mastin's case for this is because they're apparently conftown tomorrow.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Mmk, so you're including yesterday as well, as well as players who are already dead. I'd thought there was something that was currently going on that you thought was impacting discussion, not that I think those arguments you just stated weren't important, or anything. I can see how they'd make reading through kind of annoying, that's true.

P-Edit: Have fun drinking, vezok.

I feel like, with how things are going, we're in for a slow few days.

Ricastle: Yeah, Sonic fell off the wagon today. Where is he?

[MaxwellPuckett]

also, out of interest, let me see one thing real quick. I promise I will go back to voting sonic.

vote: frogger

fuck your mother

This wasn't weird, this was fact-checking. Same thing that Rational was doing with the double-voters, only way less baggage because Cool was doing the checking himself.

Fro99er, on fuzzy: So you'll only scumread him if he matches his scum meta?

[MaxwellPuckett]

More to say: Do you think fuzzy is approaching the game in a genuine manner, or do you think his behaviour is a smokescreen to make him less of a priority lynch target?

P-Edit: OH! Okay, I missed that. Now I see what you're saying.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I think everyone agrees about Mastin. The most open-and shut read in the game, by tomorrow.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Well, I'm going to bed soon, but maybe I can introduce a topic?

Someone chat with Cerb about my 2249 and how grapes will respond! Oh, exciting.

Alternatively, Where in the World is Sonic Sandiego

Or maybeeeee: Fuzzy! Please answer the questions I've asked you! I'm tryna understand how you're approaching this game and itttttt would help if you engaged with meee

[MaxwellPuckett]

Thanks for the answer, fuzzy. It's true that your play today has been better, I think I was just kind of annoyed that any comments directed toward you by me weren't really being acknowledged.

Anyways, it's true that we need some focus here. Everyone's pushing their individual scumreads and I really don't want a repeat of the deadline lynch from D1.

I'm gonna echo Cerb here and ask for Replace In to weigh in on something.

Sonic, what do you think about things? You keep referencing other people's cases, do you have other scumreads besides Fro99er and Skybird? Also, both of those reads seem to be based more on you being mad about things than about actual scumhunting. What's up with that?

Constantine, NicCage, Sonic X, Fro99er, Replace In, and Fuzzy. Those are all the 'wagons' we have right now. Can everyone give their opinions on these 6? Constantine's the only one who's a proper wagon, and NicCage only has one more vote than the rest because of vezok's ability.

Replace In and Constantine are great lynches for today. I wouldn't fight a Sonic X lynch, and honestly I just.. don't really care about NicCage? Everything about them is lukewarm, from their own opinions to the cases against them. Honestly when I think about NiCage I just think of the movie Con Air, and not of their play. NicCage, vote somebody, maybe?

Fuzzy and Fro99er are town.

P-Edit: Titus, remind me what you think about Fro99er. Also, from that post, I'm gonna assume you're townreading Sonic?

[MaxwellPuckett]

You don't get the Replace In wagon? And fuzzy has been less lynchbait today, as I've been made aware.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I guess I've been using a different definition of lynchbait. I was using it as 'a player who is incredibly easy to lynch, for one reason or another'. I was saying that fuzzy's play has been better today, so he's less likely to be lynched than he was D1.

So no, I don't want anyone to compromise on fuzzy, quite the opposite.

[MaxwellPuckett]

But this is a weird way to do it...When my vote is on someone it's because I want them lynched.

I think I've been kinda thinking you're a bit more scummy today because you've been less involved than day 1(hypocrite ik) and that you've been kinda hard defending all my scumreads.

And that's an alarm bell not because I think OMG YOU MUST BE SCUM TOGETHER or anything like that. But because when you do so it's because 'genuine' or something else I just don't quite follow for whatever reason. And that's making me think we're staring at this stagnated thread through different lenses some times.

But I get what you're trying to say anyway, though. You want me to compromise on a lynch.

I also think out of everyone here I should be able to be on a vanity wagon because in doing so I'm the only one who isn't actively avoiding vca or hindering the progression of the game because while you forget I've been parking on skybird I've also been sitting on the very viable frogger wagon. Which is also endorsed by mastin who's a stump, so it technically should have like 3 votes.

UNVOTE: skybird

most likely voting cage after a vote count

I'm gonna be honest here, I actually forgot about your Fro99er vote whenever I checked the VCA, 'cause I saw your name once and thought 'Oh, that's where grapes vote is', and then I ended up not seeing the Fro99er vote. Sorry about that, that's kind of a big oversight on my part. Like.. a big one. Sorry. I'm not great at connecting thoughts in my head I guess.

Besides Skybird, who else am I hard defending that's a scumread of yours?

Mastin's mod argument against Fro99er isn't that great. The only part of their argument that really holds water is the ascetic claim thing.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Honestly, like I want them both to go down. Now they're just jumping onto each other because it's the only avenue they have left.

I don't know how good the possibility of both of them being scum is, though. Like I said, the only avenue they have left.. it looks like both of them are going for survival here, and there were better lynch options than each other, at least I think so. Someone wanna weigh in on that?

[MaxwellPuckett]

I don't think survivalism is a town trait, but town can be survivalists just the same. The fact that going after the other wagon is what they both decided to do is what I noticed. Instead of Frogger, sonic, or NicCage, they each jumped on each other, which makes me unsure about both being scum.

And yeah I agree with fuzzy here. Mastin is your Constantine townread the same as Rational's? As in, scum has no reason to do this thing (town doesn't either), so it probably isn't scum?

[MaxwellPuckett]

CoolDog's push on Ricastle was bad, but I dunno if that's scum-bad.

Oh, and CoolDog: you're right, bad scum can win games too, that's true. It's generally safer, though, to assume your enemies are competent, so you aren't surprised by something clever and effective. Something stupid and effective is generally less threatening than clever and effective...since clever and effective will get them to endgame with a handpicked set of players, and stupid and effective will let them skate until end game, at which point their terrible play gets them lynched.

-Cerb

Rational, are you in this case deciding to assume that CoolDog is competent scum, or not competent scum? You said you were scumreading them before their Ricastle post, how has that read changed from that post? Is it the same, or are you now more confident?

Trench, and Rational, what do you believe he was trying to accomplish with his Ricastle push, then?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Trench: I guess those are all reasons.

Fro99er: I dunno?? If there was more stuff I'd be more set on Cool as scum, but if it's just that then it's not a wagon I'll jump on. That's why I wanna hear what Cerb has to say about Cool, partially. It just seems kind of ridiculous, like he really sees something there in Ricastle and is really badly misinterpreting it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Fro99er: My reply to you was worded badly, but what I'm basically saying there is that I don't really know how to deal with CoolDog's Ricastle push, but I'm thinking Cool really believes in it, so it's not convinced me to vote for Cool.

The Cerb stuff is about actually scumreading Cool in general, what I was saying there is I'd like to see a case on Cool that isn't just his Ricastle push. Since Cerb had said they were scumreading Cool, I wanted to know the reasons for that, because he was leanscum to me for most of D1 on gut.

Also, Constantine's play today has made me feel a bit differently. Not really play though, more like their posts, particularly their stance on CoolDog. I'm not as confident there. Replace In, though, I'm definitely still confident about.

VOTE: Replace In

[MaxwellPuckett]

Shit, sorry, I thought I was the seventh vote. Thanks for noticing that, fro99er.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Beatlejuice?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Cerb: That's kind of how I've been going through this game. CoolDog's push, while it could be scum trying to push some sort of agenda, just seems badly thought out. If CoolDog was looking for a way to earn towncred, there are way, way better ways to go about it than by attacking Ricastle. If they need Ricastle dead for something, it should be obvious that lynching is not the way they should go, with how the game is going. Finally, I don't think it's scum distancing, because Ricastle is town.

I don't think scum do things without a reason. Even when their actions make no sense, they usually at least have some kind of goal in mind, that makes sense to them. I can't see a reason for a fake push on Ricastle, of all people, so I can only assume that the push is genuine. Whether they actually think they have something on Ricastle, or they're scum who THINKS they have something on Ricastle, I can't say. But I don't think a bad push = scum. Cerb, why were you scumreading CoolDog previously, anyway?

[MaxwellPuckett]

I would have liked to ally with Farside, but if there's some reason she can't, it's fine.

I'd be happy to stay on with Skybird, too, but I think she might be allying with Sonic tonight. Not sure, because apparently that hinges on mastin. So I'm kinda unsure if I have an ally or not???

CoolDog, that sucks. You've been in this game for this long, and I really think you haven't been reading the thread if you think the rest of us don't care about the game.

[MaxwellPuckett]

That's too bad, far. But I understand ^-^.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Yeah, I'm gonna continue with Skybird.

Farside, tomorrow we might be able to ally, though I can't say for sure until then.
I won't be around at deadline, but I'll be here for a few hours yet. I'm not as annoyed with today's deadline lynch because this time I was actually around during the final votes, and this is one I'm definitely on board with.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Have to re-sort things in my head a bit.

Titus: I believe so.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I've kind of been treating mastin as conftown since that claim, because who claims like that just to stall for time?? Waiting on an explanation from mastin when her V/LA ends before worrying about that, anyways.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Is there any other reason? I still don't think mastin is lying.

So I saw some agreement on CoolDog votes.. someone wanna refresh me with a scum-case there, that isn't the Ricastle push? Because I've already given my opinion there.

[MaxwellPuckett]

farside: Alright, fair enough. Any specific examples of 'not taking the game as a whole'? Talking about CoolDog, of course.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Sapphire had a fusion power, but you don't seem to have one Frogger!

Probably cause you're not rose huh

Wh.. wh

Huh?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Farside: Alright, I get where you're coming from.

CoolDog's been kinda on and off for me all game. Interacting with him today would be helpful but it seems like our schedules don't match.

Fuzzy: Agreement, minus the potato thing.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I just think Nic is assuming that Gems have a formula when we've seen only a single Gem flip.

Sure, I'd like to hear Fro99er's response anyways.

[MaxwellPuckett]

We know fusions are separate from alliances. I know that, too.

But why does that make you assume that every gem has both an alliance ability and a fusion ability? Those two lines of thinking don't follow, you've just based that on the fact that Sapphire had two separate abilities for fusions and alliances. There are ten gem characters that could possibly be in this setup. We've seen one.

Not gonna make alignment decisions based on assumptions. Vezok is Sadie. Not an assumption, just a fact. Ricastle being town is actually more of an assumption on my part, based on the laser light cannon, but a much better assumption because it what world does one activate a dayvig ability by simply bolding a player's name? The hotdog phrase isn't inherently violent, and Varsoon accepting it as such would be pretty bastard.

PEDIT: Thanks Cerb. Though to be fair, it's only Nic's vote and Farside's that are based on silly things.

[MaxwellPuckett]

FINALLY: A little miffed at NicCage bringing up how attached I am to the flavour, and using that as ammo. Low blow, man. (im kidding)

[MaxwellPuckett]

No no, I agree with you, Cerb.

And I guess I have nothing to say in response to that, Farside.

PEDIT: Excuse me?? Bitch you did NOT

-cough-

But seriously, this isn't actually flavour. This is setup specs.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Nic why weren't you this entertaining the first two days?

"I've literally never thought that far ahead in my life".

Titus, why are you so ready to vote mastin? We've yet to hear an explanation. But if that explanation involves any kind of admittance that she wasn't being truthful, that's my vote. But I don't think that's gonna happen. It just seems way too unlikely to me.

PEDIT: I swear if someone brings up the so called 'definition of insanity' I'm going to throw a chair.

PEDITx2: If you want a Fro99er lynch, tell us why, because I know there's material for it since there's been Fro99er wagons all game. Just don't make that material unproven assumptions that you're for some reason really sure about

[MaxwellPuckett]

Trench: That mastin thing was in response to you telling NicCage to vote mastin, or something to that effect. Or maybe you asked him why he wasn't voting her, whatever.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Mastin is town. She's explained why the mod hasn't revealed her as such. Holy shit.

Farside, I get why you're not liking her this game, but she's not doing nothing.

Finally, all of this flavour yelling is giving me a headache.

Also, mastin:

If you want a Fro99er lynch, tell us why, because I know there's material for it since there's been Fro99er wagons all game.

I

get

that you're scum, but I'm still going to

MURDER

you.

Nice job taking that one out of context. I was talking to NicCage, who was using a lack of distinction between a fusion based power and an alliance based power as reason for a Fro99er lynch. I said right THERE that I KNOW there's a case, so I was frustrated that he was using that as an excuse. Also I'm frustrated in general by people assuming that this game can be broken by flavour. Frustrated by a lot of things, actually, but whatever.

Anyone care to align with me tonight? Or talk? I want someone to chat with, I'm quickly learning that I make better decisions when it isn't just my own mind. maybe I'd have a good time in a hydra?

[MaxwellPuckett]

Cerb: I see a lot of hydras arguing, but I also see some that do really well. And yeah, I love discussing games with people, it was useful to talk things over with Skybird in our PT and I'd like more of that.

And sure, I can align with you guys.

Also, Titus:

I can see scum claiming conftown and than claiming that they were not confirm bc there was no trigger.

It's complicated, but basically: my role has a built-in ability that auto-triggered on D3's start. This is why I said that I'd be conftown today.

However, it is not a public ability that would reveal me as town. It's a private ability. This does not negate the statement I made, though. Just because it's not public doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'll be revealing it soon enough. Just not at this very moment, when I'm catching up.

Mastin actually has a surprisingly rational reason to have claimed what she did at the start of the game. We are aware of that reason and I'm waiting for Cerberus before we decide how to proceed. Putting votes on her isn't going to speed up the way she gets confirmed, because it isn't completely in her hands.

Honestly, I wish you hadn't revealed this since I was hoping to keep your involvement anonymous, but yes, I can confirm; my claims to being conftown are tied to Reasonably Rational. (There's a reason RR tops my townlist.)

Mastin has explained why they can't quite explain. Calm down.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Unexpected spotty internet access is over and done with.

Why the heck does vezok think that fuzzy's flavour makes no sense? One of the cool kids' names is literally Jenny Pizza. Whose family owns a pizzeria. She drives a pizza delivery van everywhere. Yeah, that's super scum, did you see the episode where Peridot sends the Crystal Gems an exploding pizza? Lynch fuzzy now.

Checking in, at any rate. I'm here now and I'll be around for the rest of the day. If you have questions, shoot.

Also, I think someone was wondering about Constantine. Apparently he asked Varsoon to set him up in a random alliance and he ended up being paired with me yesterday. I wanted to talk to him but after saying hi he didn't get back to me. I was gonna say this yesterday but the day ended earlier than I expected.

My lynchpool is getting too tiny for me and my play is making me reconsider a lot of townreads.

Xtom is probably scum, been ignoring the slot because of all the replacements and all three of them seeming to have I Cant Post Just Yet disease. Well, he's here today, anyways. Hey there.
CoolDog has been like.. I don't want to call him scum and I don't think the Ricastle push was scum either, but I've been waffly on that all day and I'm kind of regretting it. It could have been a mistake, it's not like he's been invested in the game in the first place. I'm always resistant to scumread people I find personally grating, though.
Constantine an option I guess??? I feel like scum wouldn't have just randomly chosen a partner, and then not done a single thing to interact with them. Then again, I think Constantine site flaked? I haven't checked.
Sonic X is maybe the worst of these reads and they're all pretty lukewarm to begin with. More like hasn't done anything to make me think town, except for the rampant Fro99er tunnelling, and even that isn't really that town.
I have to check CoolDog again, Skybird was also suspicious there but we ended up agreeing on pursuing other things.

Yeah you know what, VOTE: CoolDog, screw it. My pool can't be the scumteam, I refuse to believe that every scum but Fro99er has been letting this game drive itself. My reads don't make sense with the gamestate as it is but I just don't know where to go from here.

Sonic, what does fuzzy have to do with my lynch? You say you're waiting on an answer there but you seem pretty eager to just get my wagon moving.

Farside, what's this theory? I'd like to hear it.

Fro99er was playing towny until NicCage got what amounted to a guilty. I thought I knew Fro99er's townplay because my first game onsite was with him.

And fuzzy might be scum, but it still wouldn't fit with my lynchpool so, well, whatever. I still think he's town, though I wish he'd been vigged before today. I refuse to believe that he would be playing like this, particularly with the mastin pizza thing. One of his buddies would have told him who to target, and probably would have said something about his planned claim too. Not a fake VI either, anyone who was faking it could see that they needed to change tactics by D2.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Yeah, I posted a list because I totally remembered that you almost called Beer town because of a readslist day 1. Though I wouldn't call that a readslist, it's more like a 'fuck I suck' list.

How the hell is fuzzy almost confscum? We've already seen that Ricastle wasn't lying about the laser light cannon, that powers match flavour really awesomely, and mastin confirmed that fuzzy really did send her pizza. Fuzzy hasn't lied once, including not lying about the fact that he's keeping a part of his role secret. Like.. provable flavour is a good weapon here. Vezok is mod-confirmed Sadie according to Beer, and Beer was mod-confirmed Lars according to Vezok. That right there is the only reason vezok even gets a townread, and that's because Beer was proven to not be lying with vezok based on his flip.

Like.. fuzzy is a anti-town VI. This has been established. Hell, lynch him before lylo, I probably shouldn't have been arguing against it early game but I have a softspot for lynchbait, but it's nothing but a policy lynch.

[MaxwellPuckett]

GGghhhhhhhh you just called that post town. Did 3301 change your mind?

Please tell me how fuzzy is scum. Like, I'm not even arguing against the lynch at this point, I just want someone to admit it's policy and not that he's actually super scum. Come on, someone say it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Gee, thanks for the compliment, TSO.

Farside: Fuzzy said he has another ability (that activates in an alliance, I assume), that he hasn't revealed yet.

That message you sent that just told me you were able to send messages?

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm pretty sure Fro99er targeted you because he thought you were a gem. That's the only way his powers would work.

PEDIT: Farside laying down shade, oh man

[MaxwellPuckett]

I was kidding about the shade. I just thought it was funny, I didn't think you meant anything by it.

And: I have no idea why he would think that. Why would you sending me a message make you a target? Don't answer that, by the way.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Who are these players? Do you actually think I'm scum, or was it just your theory?

[MaxwellPuckett]

My lynchpool is getting too tiny for me and my play is making me reconsider a lot of townreads.

Sucks when your mislynches clear themselves, doesn't it?

One of his buddies would have told him who to target, and probably would have said something about his planned claim too.

This argument breaks down when your top suspects are me, Cooldog and Hermit.

Not a fake VI either, anyone who was faking it could see that they needed to change tactics by D2.

So you think he's a VI. What does that have to do with his alignment? (hint: nothing)

Vezok is mod-confirmed Sadie according to Beer, and Beer was mod-confirmed Lars according to Vezok. That right there is the only reason vezok even gets a townread, and that's because Beer was proven to not be lying with vezok based on his flip.

This is funny. You defend Fuzzy based on a mild flavour link, then cry about vezok being cleared by a mod confirmed flavour link.

Also you forgot to fakeclaim buddy.

1) My top suspects are indeed you, CoolDog, and Constantine, but I've already said I don't think I have the scumteam at all. The one I'm reconsidering is Constantine, by the way.

2) I defended fuzzy's flavour because saying that his ability doesn't make sense with his claimed flavour is just plain wrong. And I'm not crying about vezok being clear, I'm glad of it, I was just saying that I'd be scumreading vezok if not for it. But that sentiment doesn't really matter because vezok is conftown to me.

3) I'm not at L-1. No one has declared intent to hammer. Unlike some people, I'm not in favour of a massclaim, either.

Oh, and grapes, you're a townread, or at least you were going into this day. I understand where you're coming from with your reads and you've never appeared to be uninvested in the game, after I actually looked at you properly D2. There simply aren't enough people for me to look at here. Xtom, CoolDog, and Constantine, I have to be wrong on at least one of those. Xtom's confbiasing with his 'analysis' of my post at least makes me feel better about that one, though.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm extremely frustrated and phone posting. Not frustrated about the game, more so about my current RL situation.

Varsoon, I'll be V/LA for the next couple days til I sort this out.

Still may have limited phone access, though!

I'm not happy with the fact that this day is 100% ending in a town Lynch, and I blame myself for not being around like I normally am.

Anyways, I'm Watermelon Steven, motion detector. N1 was grapes, N2 Skybird, N3 Fro99er. No actions N1, actions on the other two nights. Not gonna be here again until late tonight so its whatever.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Farside, not Frogger. Phone.

Pedit: Jesus Christ, my phone has a bank of player names from when I've used them

[MaxwellPuckett]

I know, after a few days in the game I began to realize that my role wasn't much better than a VT. It has utility, in a game like this I can definitely see it being helpful maybe lategame? But right how it hasn't really helped, except to tell me that grapes didn't perform actions N1, and that someone targeted farside N3.

I think it fits the flavour, though. The Watermelon Stevens only attacked baby melon after he 'attacked' Steven, and they sprung into automatic actiona when other tried to get at him as well.

N1 was grapes because I was curious about the split double voter, and i wanted to see if anyone would target grapes for it.
N2 was Skybird because after she'd claimed I wanted to check if her role was limited shot or not, because she'd told me she'd stolen from Marquis the previous night and her result, but not anything else. Basically I had a good amount of information about her role and thought that I might as well check her out. My role feels kinda useless if I just throw it at a player I know nothing about.

Farside was because of what they said happened with their role N2, and I thought I might get some feedback if I targeted them. I did, but I still don't know what to do with it.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Skybird's info doesn't help. She targeted Marquis and came back with a pair of shades too big for a human. Garnets shades. The player she got the info on is dead, as is Skybird. How does this help? Doesn't help scum either, so not really a point in keeping it to our PT.

I'm not voting fuzzy because he's town dude. The fact that fuzzy isn't jumping on me here is further proof if you want it.

Also, don't vote vezok. Now matter what they're doing they are literally mod confirmed Sadie. Fro99er flipped Jasper, are you seriously entertaining the idea that Sadie is on the same team as Jasper??? Jesus.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm off V/LA.

And here now.

Trench, you want to use Sonic to confirm that fuzzy isn't lying about his motivate ability? I just read it once, but that's what I got from it. Gonna check back here in a bit.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Huh, well I guess Nic said it better than I could have.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Getting him to post is like pulling teeth, though.

Anyways, here's a nice little list.

Vezok and RR are conftown to me, so there.
Mastin
Sonic X
NicCage
Farside
fuzzy (only really this low because its based on post content rather than role/play)
grapes (same thing as with fuzzy)
Trench Warfare

Constantine
Xtoxm
CoolDog

The bottom three are really interchangeable.

If you have questions I'll be around.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Constantine, who is volunteering to be motivated that could be scum? Name names.

[MaxwellPuckett]

The only conclusion I can come up with based on my list is that Constantine is likely to be scum, but his posts today actually make sense.

So do farside's. I really don't think fuzzy is lying about his power.

And yes, we should just lynch CoolDog, because right now both of the wagons are on town.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Fuzzy, I think you need to read the posts from both of them again. Pretty sure you misinterpreted them.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Hey everyone! I regret that I couldn't weigh in here earlier.

My apologies to my darling scumteam! My early game play was better than my later game thanks to RL commitments, and I regret not being around when I should have! That said, I had a great time, and I would play with all of you again. More thoughts later when I'm not at my lecture.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I was indeed, though I admit not as closely as I would have in a game I was still alive in.

Since you said hi, RR, I'll start with you. I think your catching of Titus was pretty fantastic, though she also made a valiant effort to turn that around. I do think it was a slip, there were a few different things the light prism would do, but Titus included that particular one without any indication of wondering. Maybe it wasn't a slip in that Titus assumed it could have been reasoned out, making it not a mistake but a miscalculation. I'm not sure there. I DO think I probably would not have noticed it if I were playing as town.. Because I didn't notice it until it was pointed out in our scum PT.

As a whole I think his play was very good as well, particularly how they did not just dismiss fuzzy.

The biggest mistake was definitely RR's assumption about the setup: you can see me saying that in the dead thread, in our private chat with RR and Titus, and I think in the scum PT as well. Of course xtoxm's late-play contributed to our win, but so did his status as Centipeedle. RR didn't consider that early knowledge of who Steven was did not mean that Steven would be killed before being able to clear himself... I think Titus also already covered this in post-game. RR was left alive to take advantage of xtoxm's position, basically, and I believed (during the game, in the dead thread it was actually confirmed) Varsoon thought that could happen. Which is why the setup is as it is.

Let's see... Late-game was tense. Everyone did what they thought was best, and who could ask for anything else? I've made the mistake of seeing emotional plays from town as scum.. Fortunately or perhaps unfortunately due to how things played out, I was completely kicked out of that thanks to my first newbie game. I'm sure Fro99er knows what I'm talking about. In the case of this game, I'm referring to grapes' fuzzy vote and the subsequent wagon on them.

Now to dinner!