Mini 1694 -- Zodiac Mafia II (Game Over)

[elusive]

Am I the only Kitty Kat? I forget what I'm compatible with although I know I get along with Libra's, farside

RVS Questions!
1. What about your sign do you know that is true to your personality\outlook?
2. Pick a player you have played with before in the game and describe their town\scum meta
3. What is town's optimal choice if they receive a fortunate horoscope and why?

[elusive]

Farside, I'm a Leo girl and I get along with other Leo girls and some Libras

KayP, I worship at the altar of meta. Not really but I do like meta quite a lot.

I wanted to second Marquis being able to fake not knowing things. Marquis, why Lane?

MetalSonic, hey you be cool this game..

[elusive]

Ok, now I get what Ricastle meant by "popcorn" the daykill...although being clear usually helps:

daykill: Marquis

It makes sense although I would say it would probably be best for town to choose a specific player (the scummiest or lurkiest bastard) and have players target one players and then wait to see if anything happens, then the next player target that scummy lil monkey, etc.

Yes?

I'm not sure why Ricastle is being read as scummy tho so explanamations.

Farside, I actually am a Leo although some cusp thing is in Libra. I get along with Leo women and Libra guys\girls (for the most part there's always that one person who was switched at birth)

[elusive]

Waiting for the mod will take ages, as I believe they're barely ever on. It'd be much quicker to just target different players.

Daykill: Metal Sonic

Yeah, I see what you mean although we'll still have to wait on the Mod. I just hate the risk of killing a town player obviously.

[elusive]

VOTE: Aronis

Daykill me, bro

[elusive]

More setup spec, yawn.

Am I the only Kitty Kat?

RVS Questions!
1. What about your sign do you know that is true to your personality\outlook?
2. Pick a player you have played with before in the game and describe their town\scum meta
3. What is town's optimal choice if they receive a fortunate horoscope and why?

[elusive]

One of the horoscopes will be fortunate, and one of them will be unfortunate. The selection of the horoscopes, as well was which player receives them, will be randomized

Why did I think that players could choose? It's obviously random? Therefore, scum cannot choose and would get a random ability?

[elusive]

Why is Nacho making up rules that doesn't exist? :O

[elusive]

i'm probably over-analysing things but
@elusive what kind of risk were you thinking about?

Well to be more clear, what it seems like is that Nacho stated that the scum could publicly declare a daykill and then via PM change it but the Mod then clarified that it wasn't true so I asked him why he he made up rules (or why he didn't check the prior game he was in before spreading disinformation).

It's a closed setup so nothing about town roles is known, I believe? So scum have to publicly daykill if they roll this ability - however the randomization of the daykill meant that they might hit a town PR or might kill someone super useful to town in terms of hunting. That's the risk over the random kill vs. town deciding who the scummiest player is and having everyone target that person. Does that make sense now?

I would probably meta a player a bit before making assumptions about their playstyle. Mine's is different from the supposed norm - have a question click on the Wiki, look through some games and then come back.

Tammy also pings me as a bit off, I have to check her last game but she seems to be hesitant in this to engage in the game and there are certain players for whom that is a scum tell.

Tammy, what do you not understand about the setup that isn't closed\unknown? I've never been good at setup spec but it seems like if you're following discussion we're all trying to understand it and making mistakes along the way some of which have been addressed by the mod.

Farside does scare me because of our last game where she was so calm and collected as scum but I'm the same way as scum so I'm waiting and seeing with what she does as the game progresses.

[elusive]

I'm fine with people making fun of and or poking at adhd but its actually quite stressful to have or function with so that's probably not a reason to scumread someone. It's also not always the lack of focus, sometimes its the inability to do anything but hyperfocus.

Tammy, I'll check out a game and see if that matches up. My day one is pretty slow to start and more fluff based as as well so I do understand that. I think Farside's last post should clear up any remaining major concerns about setup.

[elusive]

Waiting for the mod will take ages, as I believe they're barely ever on. It'd be much quicker to just target different players.

Daykill: Metal Sonic

Yeah, I see what you mean although

we'll still have to wait on the Mod

. I just hate the risk of killing a town player obviously.

I know other people mentioned it, but your explanation for waiting is odd with the hating the risk of killing a town player. You agreed with the popcorn plan, which would be killing a town player if scum has the day kill. It would make more sense if your concern was catching the daykiller which is what I thought you were going for and why I said it wouldn't matter if we didn't have overlaps.

The plan that I suggested which people said would take too long because we'd have to wait on the mod to confirm the daykill, well with the popcorn plan we still have to wait for the mod to confirm the daykill. I was more concerned with the popcorn more likely to hit town (and scum to force a "random" daykill on a strong player if they have it), be uncontrolled and usually in other games in situations where town is trying to direct a vig or sk, it makes more sense to focus on the scummiest player.

So yeah, I think I've explained my reasoning as well as I can.

[elusive]

Ok, now I get what Ricastle meant by "popcorn" the daykill...although being clear usually helps:

daykill: Marquis

It makes sense although I would say it would probably be best for town to choose a specific player (the scummiest or lurkiest bastard) and have players target one players and then wait to see if anything happens, then the next player target that scummy lil monkey, etc.

Yes?

I'm not sure why Ricastle is being read as scummy tho so explanamations.

Farside, I actually am a Leo although some cusp thing is in Libra. I get along with Leo women and Libra guys\girls (for the most part there's always that one person who was switched at birth)

[elusive]

@elusive... not a big fan of scum reads or answering questions or acknowledging pressure? That's cool.

Farside has this way too easy right now. I'm sorry far. I'm with you. But what if you lied?

lane, try reading my posts before open if your mouth and coming off like a moron. I answered both your question.

I'm town and don't really care for people who interact Wo reading or content.

[elusive]

Ok. Yeah, no I don't see the answer to marquis.

So please start your answer with my name so I read it, in case I really did miss it

I answered your questions about nacho and my thinking behind the plan to all target one player for daykill which Tammy also seemed to not be reading. Two people not reading carefully is enough. Don't bother asking me questions if you haven't read what I already wrote.

As for your question about Marquis, it was stupid and irrelevant since if I were scumreading him rather then following the plan to pick a random player for daykill, you would know it through content.

I do what I want, roll with it or jump off a bridge with the other squirrels.

[elusive]

Re: stupid questions.

You asked about Nacho and you asked about my thoughts re the daykill plan which I already quoted\discussed\have not interest in rehashing because I think there isn't anything there to actually question and rather you're wasting time trying to look busy when in actuality you're grasping at straws.

Once I have an unfavorable opinion of someone and they continue to twist my words my responses become...let's call it abrasive.

People, other then scum or derp town, don't vote me in general.

Here is a little primer on mafia since you seem to be lacking the basics and maybe need a spin in the Newbie queue:
1. Each player is different and if you find something different about them, go on their Wiki or look through their topics and run some meta data
2. Before asking repetitive questions or ones that are answered, ask yourself, "Does this make sense? Should I ISO the player and see if the response is already answered since its only day one and I have only 9 pages to wade through? Am I going to come off as a tryhard scumtard doofus when I attempt to tunnel a player for something while ignoring more obvious people who have done less?"

[elusive]

Ok, now I get what Ricastle meant by "popcorn" the daykill...although being clear usually helps:

daykill: Marquis

As for your question about Marquis, it was stupid and irrelevant since if

I were scumreading him rather then following the plan to pick a random player for daykill, you would know it through content

.

At this point, Marquis has all of 7 posts. (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7000359)

Anyone trying to claim scum reads on page 5 of a game with this few posts is lying. Anyone trying to push for scum claims from within that few posts (7) is lying or has an agenda. Unsurprisingly Marquis scumreads lane so therefore I suspect Lane has an agenda.

What I know of Marquis he's not a player who can be read within 7 posts so yeah. Let's continue the BS train. Now lane apologize for being annoying.

Mainez, I think you said you were over analyzing things. You are. I suggest you find something real to talk about instead of, like lane, trying to drag the game into insipid nonsense. I did answer Lane's questions or found them to be misleading and bad.

OR tell me what town mindset you're asking this question from.

What is the thought process behind it? Where does it lead? To what read does the question help you with and do you usually think that on page 5 of a game where players still aren't sure of the setup spec, there is a reason to over question an theory that was shot down quite quickly? No, tell me and don't BS some easy one size fits all answer - tell me specifically what your goal is through this questioning.

Then, lane and Mainez:

Please link to games where within 9 pages of a game either of you had a solid scum read and got it lynched (and therefore were correct).

Finally, again my Wiki is pretty well built - go and look through some of my games. If you still have questions at that point and they aren't fruitless then go ahead and ask.

Otherwise at this nascent stage in the game, both of you are being really particular in what you're ignoring and what you're focusing on and what you're focusing on is quite irrelevant.

[elusive]

So looking at Tammy's last two completed town games:

1. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=58816
2. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6452665

Her town game whether town PR or town vanilla seems to be more: direct, active, and confident in her reads\votes. Here she started off as passive, hesitant, used the "don't understand" card to stall more active play and is pinging as off.

VOTE: Tammy

Re: Drama - I think I should have taken a break between the last game and this new set as their kind of blending together and being harangued gets tiring.

Marquis, I'm not a fan of wishy washy reads either. If you have a read, give a clear explanation and vote for it.

[elusive]

No.

[elusive]

Tammy, if you have any counter examples (since you have a lot of topics) where you enter this way as scum you should link them. I did actually look at four total games for you (town) where it was true. My first and best game on here (newbie game) I figure it out through meta diving and help and since then two things work really well for me: 1. meta reads 2. once a scum flips interactions (unless there is heavy lurking which messes with a game).

Farside, you have no reasoning or a case so unless you're aligned with Tammy - as town you should be checking her meta as compared to what she's saying about it . Do you have any counter examples or are you just engaging in BS? You trying to FOS me and MS in the same breath is actually repulsive because of the lack of thinking behind it and the easy targeting. I don't have patience for people who lack purpose.

MetalSonic, I already meta-ed you for the Ori game and already put my thoughts out about your play style there, although having it organized in a Wiki is helpful in general.

[elusive]

Spoiler:

Love triumphs over all for this sign, which is ruled by the heart and operates from this dimension too. Leo's are born fortunate. Charismatic and positive-thinking they attract not only an abundance of friends and opportunities, but manage to survive life's stormy times with style and good humour. Once a Lion is committed to a relationship, they are totally devoted and faithful. Should their heart or trust be broken they never forgive or forget. When a relationship breaks down (even a long standing one) they can disappear into the sunset without a backward look. Leos can cut ties, and leave others heartbroken, but usually there is a good reason why they have broken a tryst. For a Leo, when a relationship is over, really over, it is over for good.

"Inactivity is death." - Benito Mussolini

[elusive]

Tammy, in ISO I also don't see you doing the daykill plan. So daykill me, girl.

[elusive]

Link two your last four completed scum games, thanks.

[elusive]

Also you're right, I didn't look at your first post but you entered a little late.

[elusive]

I am somewhat amused elusive seems to think she's caught me though, I'm already feelin a certain sense of smugness coming on.

Link to your last 4 completed scum games, hun.

[elusive]

Oh lol this isn't your town game, silly girl. I already did look through your topics and you're lying about your meta I just wanted to see if were going to be cooperative or at least fake it but I guess not

[elusive]

Awww, what attitude don't you like? People politely asking you to be cooperative?

[elusive]

Tammy,

SO why are you acting like someone with something to hide? Two can play at being uncooperative. The logical thing as town to do is to try to help players with reading you and your reaction was not your usual reaction as town. Instead you're trying to engage in theatrics. Surprising.

As for town in this game, once you've looked at the first two games I've linked, and come to some thesis then ask me for more to follow up. Once I start digging, I go far.

Oh and here is one scum game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=54228

[elusive]

I see neither Nacho or Startfromtheheart actually counteract how Tammy is NOT playing to her scum meta so far (lack of reads, focusing on things other than the game, playing the dumb blonde, etc)

[elusive]

I'm sorry did you point to a game where she was different? No? Then stop being lame.

[elusive]

Tammy,

Yeah, I also read this "Primer on Being Scum" post #3 by you (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=60075) and therefore, I'm pretty sure you're underplaying your skills.

The attempt to equate a scum read with condescension also bad, since rather then responding to the reasons for the read or attempting to clarify you're attempting to engage in faux "emotional" behavior.

Things I know about: female emotional\psychological responses. And faking it

[elusive]

Now to engage in actual condescension:

Lane, can you link me to 2 town games (minimum) where Tammy enters in the same way and behaves the same way? And describe her meta in both. I would say something about ongoing games but boo rules.

Just two, would take you from seeming like a tryhard to you know actually playing the game.

I hope this isn't too hard for you, I know this game isn't for everyone.

[elusive]

My read on Tammy was a based on a cold read of her posts so far which was then followed up with meta data and then her reactions\behavior to being suspected. It's on her or her defenders to actually disprove data through evidence. Town usually tries to be helpful, especially since she reads me as innocent or leaning that way. Why wouldn't you work with your town or lean town reads?

Yeah, no.

[elusive]

Nacho, I read her entrances not the whole games but that is what is relevant at this point. That was what was relevant. Also, stuff. But your comments seem to focus on the passive. What are her reads and her contributions so far?

Tammy, you should probably actually start playing the game instead of engaging in theatrics. You have scum and town read what are they?

Reactions are just as interesting although we have a slight lurker issue and I hope mods replace people who drag the game down.

Tammy link to what you're taking about.

[elusive]

Tammy,
And you should really provide reasons for reads, nearly 100 posts later and you're still relying on that wishy washy post to carry you?

[elusive]

Oh great this game is going to be so fun, k I'll check in when I'm good and ready so don't expect much more from me until I feel like it because thats so fucking town.

[elusive]

Tammy trying to make herself seem like a mouse instead of a player of repute or a big dog lol is funny. I do hate mice, they're disgusting.

[elusive]

You should probably give up on your cat pouncing game, you're swatting at air, and I'll do things in my own time and in my own way. I think that should be apparent by now.

Stop being so mousy and passive aggressive. When you're in the mood, let me know what you think about the people who defended you or voted you. Ps I did say I only read your game entrances and some end notes. So be cool.

Also hi Aronis, idk how I feel about all this. Like post breakup return to normality. Did you suicide bomb me in that game with my arch nemesis Marquis? You're a murderer

Nacho,

[elusive]

Ric, I'm not going to have a meltdown and I'm town as heck. Also trying to provoke players into meltdowns while seemingly fun also encourages them to keep doing it rather then channeling emotions in more positive fluff GIF and music based ways.

No more meltdowns for me. I can't stop being sassy but am trying to keep on the right side of that line as well.

Which can be difficult.

[elusive]

I hope to get a daykill, please fates and stuff.

Aronis, you've only seen my good side and town as fuck seemed too much now that I'm reforming myself.

[elusive]

I hope to get a daykill, please fates and stuff.

Aronis, you've only seen my good side and town as fuck seemed too much now that I'm reforming myself.

Don't you already have one? Or did you guys pick something else?

My issue isn't the swearing, more the 'town' part of that statement. I think maybe you got it mixed up with scum?

Awww...Joe-Ronis baby, if that were true wouldn't Marquis be dead since I did

daykill: Marquis

? Logic. Also, I knew we were in a weirdly awesome cult for what seems like a year but was probably much less, but we did break up before the cult part was over for very legit reasons and stuff and so now its so awkward when you fake scumread me and when I want to totally daykill you, right?



Mainez et al seem to think that at 13 pages in my vote and reads on a player automatically will lynch them which is bizarre. If she isn't scum we'll find out, if she is we'll find out. However, I'm very interested in finding out and seeing what scum hunting tools you seem to operate on.

Ric, startfromtheheart seems to be joking a lot and not doing much and he backed up off to easily on his vote in post #53. He also obviously has some connection to Aronis.

He's not the only one avoiding reads or content or much though.

I'd probably vote KayP instead and hope for some actual content rather then blah blah avatar bleu.

[elusive]

VOTE: KayP

So hoping you can read this, dude.

[elusive]

I was joking about that Aronis, your sense of humor...

KayP, I'm not really sure why you can't seem to read the game - which is only 14 pages - and comment on what you find noticeable or stood out to you. Is that difficult? Are you a newbie to mafia? Are people getting over 4th of July hang overs or something? Have you read the game and what stands out to you?

Ricastle being nice to me is a little suspicious.

Nacho, like Tammy, is someone people talk about in terms of how good they are so until they like be active and do Stuff they're super suspicious. Nacho also hasn't explained his "misremembering" of the last game and that weird rule.

MetalSonic, not really following those reads.

This site is so all over the place, one game everyone provides detailed cases and another people struggle to formulate logical statements. idk, MS - there needs to be a division there.

Effing hate lurkers though, like transcending the game hatred.

[elusive]

I followed that game a little bit, it happened right after Survivor ETU ended. Challenge beasts, how to beat them?

[elusive]

Actually, you chose to not comment on certain things in your catch up post.

By your logic I'm the towniest individual for not understanding the setup spec and having several people ask me about it (the daykill plan). Therefore, you're reading what you want to read.

People who bark off strong town reads without any substantial proof, experience or reasoning are going to strike me as off. Only scum know who town is by process of elimination.

Also, apology accepted..hopefully you can keep up with simple things like gender pronouns. I guess since its allegedly only your second game on this site, I'll let some things go.

And please quit using talking points from Mafia 101 for beginners. Unless you have some reasoning for voting me then what I see is a counterwagon. What is more likely on day one - that people have strong town reads on a player and go hard defending them or that scum will counterwagon what is scum to try to save a buddy?

Sorry, the sucky thing about experience is it makes you jaded on a lot of BS.

[elusive]

Wow.. Your apology seemed sarcastic so I responded in kind. I guess you aren't going to be responding to the points I brought up.

Hey people in this game, heads up. If you scumread me, I don't give a fuck what your crybaby BS is. Either you explain your votes and engage or I will treat you like scum. I have a wincon and its not being lynched by scum or derptown.

Thank you for replacing out, I hate playing with people who think that mafia is a G rated game for children and refuse to explain their reads or respond to questions that highlight errors in reasoning.

[elusive]

Elusive looks town here, the votes on her are bad

Yeah, the votes on me are unexplained and without reasoning or logic. I ask players to provide some reasoning (meta, interactions, anything) and they whine. No thanks, even the people in my first newbie game on here were able to articulate their thoughts.

******

[elusive]

Effective to what end?

[elusive]

Yeah no, I just spent the entire Apocalypse game with Nero haranguing me for the most stupid reasons or no reasons and I even mentioned it in this game as tiring me out. If you're haranguing me for the sake of some psych pressure cooker you deserve nothing less then the cleansing fire.

[elusive]

What is wrong with people on this site and making reasonless votes?

-> Aronis, Lane, Farside etc.

On VLA for a while.

MetalSonic would have no reason to defend me if he were scum and based on the Ori game would probably just let me crash and burn, so slight town lean there. Tammy, idk. I guess I'm in burn out mode myself. It's weird it's become normal to "pressure elusive till it rages" to get a town read. Idk, in a way its fun to adopt the persona of a Rihanna\BBC Sherlock Holmes wannabe crossover but maybe its less fun for people for whom the divide between reality and unreality doesn't exist.

Farside has played a game with me where I was scum and she was an SK and so her lack of knowledge about my gender and also playstyle seems put on. That's harsh, girl - we made it to the end together in that game. Also that game was my Talia Al Ghul avatar phase. Or you know you could listen to the words of your town read and provide reasons. I should put that quote in my Wiki tho for fun about my waving abilities.

Marquis lacks my sense of humor so that's a lost cause. Whatevs.

I mean I just found out Majiffy of all people was banned (from games?) so idk another of my idols struck down in the prime of their youths by the greatest Evil of all time insidiously poisoning us with high fructose corn syrup.

I feel like people who affiliate what happens in a game with RL in any way are amusing in a horrific way because games allow us to transcend the vagaries of our daily existences and the rules of a dissembling civilization to embody those primal forces without which we would be forced to cave in allegorically to the whims of the stark realism and pedestrian, base impulses of the modern day which serve only to encumber our souls in the organic chains that wrought us as human, dust unto dust, our only salvation lying in our ability to elevate self from beyond the mortal coil

or:

[elusive]

Tammy? Is there a question?

I'd like massive's thoughts on the game since they were catching up\replaced in.

Ricastle struck me as odd because he voted me, then after being questioning by me over it said he agreed that his vote was bad and then didn't unvote me then but only asked to start a wagon on startfromtheheart which struck me then. ric is being nice also one of your scumtells?

Bert\Snoopy - I'm also waiting for your catch up or thoughts which have been a WIP for some time now....

The thing about people who smile all the time is that they are: clowns, serial killers, sociopaths, fake, or hookers\salespeople looking for a customer.




VOTE: Ricastle

[elusive]

VOTE: unvote

Wow, people haven't caught up and you want a hammer. No.

[elusive]

I just want massive and startfromtheheart and etc to post thoughts\reads on the current wagons etc (if I'm not naming you its probably because I'm gearing up for a elusive was pissed post)

also lurkers replace out, I have made a circle of salt against your demon-ness

[elusive]

if by any chance I get a daykill ability at any point i'm killing either lane or a lurker whichever is more annoying in iso

[elusive]

Yes, because your reasons for suspecting me as scum were so great. OMG, like totally..nope.

You not only managed to misread my meta but also to misconstrue it.

massive, nacho, etc...post?

[elusive]

Ugh why does it speak to us?

Ric, your "give up" attitude is bizarre and I've never seen it in your town games so idk but its quite heartbreaking and you going to get slayed for it which if you're town (like in the words of Buzz Lightyear)

[elusive]

massive has not done as promised which is a bad start
nacho was cool for a moment but then disappeared
tammy is being petulant and reducing the value of their posts by being so
startfromtheheart is awol and has not yet done as promised either

aronis has yet to make a solid post that is meaningful
ditto marquis

there are some other people

im scared to agree with metal sonic and farside so idk

ricastle is being all tragic and will probably be the lynch

counterwagon time?

[elusive]

So Massive, is setting himself up to be useless this game. I suggest we lynch here.

I'd like massive's thoughts on the game since they were catching up\replaced in.

Me too. Today has been a killer in the office and I'm barely popping in to keep up with current events, but I should have some downtime at the weekend to roll around in it.

massive has not done as promised which is a bad start

I made it to page 12 and have kept current with posts since I replaced in. I usually abhor computers on the weekend and this is easily proven out by looking at any of my other games. So, to put it politely, stuff a sock in it, Potsy.

One of these is a lie, guess which one? So yeah Massive, try taking your foot out of your mouth before BSing.

VOTE: Massive

I'm not going to move my vote. He had one decent post and then set himself up for not posting during the week (blah work busy) and the weekends (blah no computer busy).

Tammy, Groot, etc...same thing goes for you.

@RedCoyote - If there is a place for me on this site to start or post something about lurking and active lurking and how it seriously ruins games, please let me know. Otherwise, I agree with Aronis that posting to avoid the rules (prod dodge) should be a mod force replace event. It's frustrating for people trying to actually play the game.

[elusive]

Man, and here I was so polite about it.

It's the Tammy effect! Instead of being town and embodying town - let's act like a fruit loop dingus!

[elusive]

I'm not going to move my vote. He had one decent post and then set himself up for not posting during the week (blah work busy) and the weekends (blah no computer busy).

Can you explain your turnabout in scumhunting style? You vote Tammy for essentially her meta of replacing-in tactics but you just low-fruit swing away at me without bothering to look at mine? Is it due to Tammy's reputation on-site compared to mine?

I would care to respond but I don't respond to liars who don't have time for the game, but wait you suddenly seem to...

Also try getting your facts straight, "meta of replacing-in tactics" is def. not why I scum read her slot. I still find her scummy, her continuing play and dance with nacho is scummy. There is something off about Tammy but because of her on-site reputation people aren't going to look at her or prod her today. So, yeah.

[elusive]

Reputation matters zilch to me on this site and life in general, I make my own decisions about people\objects based on direct interactions. My death glare is legendary.

It's funny how instead of you know catching up or posting thoughts, with deadline looming, you're still posting without content....magnificent...

[elusive]

Massive, I've played with scum nacho and he's funnier and more lively as scum. Like Tammy his scum and town have a slightly different flavor.

Mainez is a she. Some people do fluff post more on day one so prolly do some meta there.

Adonis let me know of the next Mastin game, then.

I have no idea what's going on with ricastle and need to look up his scum game, he's usually more forceful as tow and doesn't let himself be lynched. He also will yell more.

[elusive]

@RedCoyote - If there is a place for me on this site to start or post something about lurking and active lurking and how it seriously ruins games, please let me know. Otherwise, I agree with Aronis that posting to avoid the rules (prod dodge) should be a mod force replace event. It's frustrating for people trying to actually play the game.

I'm generally a hands off sort of mod, but I am not afraid to take action at my discretion. I do not think action is necessary at this time, but your frustrations are duly noted.

Yeah, that wasn't really for this game although I was worried this was going to be another one of them, its just been a string of games with super hard lurking and even if people hit there 3 strikes they're still lurking. In Horses town and scum lurked so hard, scum win was inevitable through NKs which that kind of game should not exist.

Tammy, I can't mention ongoing games which is the saddest rule of all. So, you should probably catch up or whatever don't really care.

Aronis, the posting without any content is seriously annoying.

Fixed quote tags.

[elusive]

Tammy, I can't mention ongoing games which is the saddest rule of all. So, you should probably catch up or whatever don't really care.

That's fine. You're wrong about his meta though. There's a reason I have a no jazz hands rule of thumb when reading nacho and it's not because he's more lively as scum.

You still didn't ask why I'm voting him.

I read your posts regarding him, I disagree with your vote but also do not care for the number of people posting that they will post sometime later so at this point I can only fight so many fires. Like you, he's basically untouchable today (based on people's reactions going all nuts).

I'm not sure why you care about my opinion?

[elusive]

For me, Marqui's lack of posting is more problematic because in the game we were in where he hydra-ed with Bins he as actively trying to solve the game even on day one.

[elusive]

Tammy, unfortunately because of your lack of content or thoughts on other players and your fixation on either me or nacho - I'm not motivated. Maybe its because you seem smug or condescending, like I possibly couldn't know better and you're here to school me.

Massive's first catch up post was decent. Why do I give nacho a pass? Idk, many reasons some of which I have shared and others that I don't feel the need too.

I always wait to see what players will say about the people doing the same exact thing they find suspicious in another player. Will they say something or will they barrel right through without commenting and therefore be weird?

[elusive]

I think you fail to realize that I don't really care? Like you stating you have a town read on me except one tiny thing? I'm not here to jump hoops for you. You reaction to my FOSing was all I needed from you, at this point you've been put in the "Wait and see" pile. I'm not sure what you're expecting here since I don't see any relevant questions other than, "Ask me why I voted nacho," when I've seen that song and dance already and don't quite care since nacho isn't here to respond. If we're putting your words to the fire then I probably can't use what meta I have of him to read him either because you know better? So yeah, meh.

I've prodded massive as I wanted to get a sense of him as KayP's replace was pinging me as off as well due to her town reads being highly without reasoning or reading one person as town for the same reason to read another player as scum. Hopefully massive keeps posting.

I played a game with Aronis where he was town and lurked around so he's pinging my radar for being like an over eager puppy. If he's scum then that ups the possibility of lane being scum because they seem to have echoed\worked off each other a bit more then normal.

Ricastle is active in other games and has shown a never before seen attitude in this game so I don't know what to make of him. Should I vote him and see him lynched (probably this is what is going to happen) or ?

If Ricastle flips town then {thoughts}? If Ricastle flips scum then {thoughts}...

[elusive]

Tammy, do you normally blind-vote people with the intention of wondering why no one asks you about it?

Not often, no, I don't know.

And that's not what this is at all.

Elusive posted an inaccurate meta read on Nacho. She also claimed that I'm still acting scummy and that my dance with nacho is scummy. I would expect that if she was really interested in reading me and that she thought I was scummy and had made a bad vote that was scummy that she'd pounce on it or that she'd ask me about it.

She can't possibly know why I'm voting him, so those declarations strike me as off when she's not trying to figure out why.

Guess what, I think you're scummy and I think nacho is townish. Boo hoo, tragedy.

According to you my meta is wrong, according to me I'm right. I also find you focusing on a player who has barely posted and is in absentia (and ignoring others barely posting) to add to the scumminess.

[elusive]

I'm an easy player to wagon, I mean seriously easy due to high emotional stakes and lack of a filter and there was no need for him as scum to pop in an derail my wagon. Scum have added fuel to the (bon)fire of my wagon but not derailed it so for me he is in the town lean for now based on that.

THere is nothing I can say about players who are actively lurking other then they make the game hard. I'd prefer a player to go batshit crazy and bitch at me but be active then to actively lurky. Obviously the majority seems to prefer the opposite.

[elusive]

There was only one game, with fferyllt where I read like ten games she was in because she was wily and correctly meta read her as scum based on language use (in my wiki, newbie games probably my favorite game of all time on here). However, most of the time I only need a few (3-4) games to figure out "voice." I may be wrong about his meta but I feel good about my read on nacho until further notice.

I've also stated who I don't feel good about: Ricastle (can you link to your most recent completed scum games because that last post only added to your scumminess), lane and Aronis for echoing each other\lane for switching from me to nacho after he defended my slot and aronis for being hyperactive and also scumreading me without any basis (or even reference to lets say the last mafia game we were in together). Marquis for lurking.

[elusive]

Metal, you should probably link Ori. Or people should read that game, I'm not for MS being lynch today possibly because of that game and the crapfest around lynching him day one when he was obvi town.

VOTE: Aronis

[elusive]

Tammy, I'm not sure but based on Ori and just his posts I don't see scum right yet. Those who do should probably point out what it is we're looking at.

VOTE: Marquis
I don't know if this is scum but its lurking and that requires attention.

[elusive]

That kind of post will get you lynched quick so I suggest you get your act together.

[elusive]

Wow, Farside is scary.

Constantine is annoying.

[elusive]

Tammy is scum, in case I die. I do love how scum share so much about their lives and movements to fill in the space that would be content. Its a funny way to try to be.

[elusive]

You're lot like bookittty, Tammy. Its good though its like a primer on how to be scum while being pleasant.

[elusive]

Okay, that VC. The people I find most suspicious are on nacho. I also find the people who town read Marquis for his barely here presence and are now waffling or casting suspicion on his slot to be suspect.

Need to look on a computer to see something, will be back before deadline.

[elusive]

Eh, why

[elusive]

So here is the game of Nacho's that I'm meta-ing:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6876907

For those who like evidence and meta and analysis. More in a bit once I read through.

[elusive]

Why do scum talk so much about their personal lives? Does it help assuage the guilt of being scum? Does it make them feel they are more of a person and not a murdering murderer?

#livetweetingreadofScumNacho

[elusive]

We actually don't have time for this. There's like an hour left.

So who's nacho's scum buddy here, because if nacho is as hard to read as Tammy, MS are saying then I find it odd that you think you can read him so easily esp. considering you have less posts\games then some noobs on here.

[elusive]

Lurking is actually a major scum tell for Nacho.

True or false?

[elusive]

So if he flips town then I'll vig Constantine, it'll be like a real saint story...full of blood and tragic atmosphere.

I am partial to people who defend me but don't seem to try to get anything from me in exchange so therefore I am a waffle cone ice cream.

Constantine, I am not partial to people trying to push me off what could be a cliff.

I'd prefer to lynch Aronis or lane.

[elusive]

Actually, Ricastle has not done anything that I expect from him in a town game so Ric is up there for me as scummy as fuck too.

[elusive]

Tammy, what does this even mean:

lane - Thought this all along.

[elusive]

What's the VC?

[elusive]

Nacho and Mainez, last words\reads please?

[elusive]

VOTE: Ricastle

[elusive]

I would like to see Hermit dead.

[elusive]

VOTE: Mainez

[elusive]

Massive, we concur on something...

[elusive]

U gonna die, hermit

[elusive]

MS and Start should probably discuss what the horoscope means so we can figure out if farside is confirmed or not, I have doubts.

VOTE: Aronis

Farside, try reading the game before putting a vote - unless you're scum and this was the plan all along.

[elusive]

Oh honey faking it this early in the morning...already?

[elusive]

My questions about Tammy's flip are:
1. Does this mean this is an all townie game minus the horoscope effects?
2. Who would be stupid enough to think that I would suspect someone all day one and then NK them as scum? Or which scum would think this would be a good strategy to turn suspicion on me?
3. Ricastle, Aronis, and one more is where the scum are. Hermy.

start, you don't choose?

[elusive]

Ok, yeah it's randomized with unfortunate going into effect that day\night cycle and fortunate can be held onto.

I'll probably do a spark notes for the horoscopes at some point.

[elusive]

Ric is OMGUSING among other things, ugh

[elusive]

The OMGUS is strong in this game

[elusive]

I expect more from the teddy bear who is either really happy or needs to pee.

[elusive]

If I were scum I would have killed Nacho and done some drama about my tragic heroic champion lost to the vileness of scums.

[elusive]

Ricastle, based on the the basis of playing two games with me can you support your vote or reasoning with actual content rather then empty statements?

[elusive]

? Isn't it MetalSonic and Startfromtheheart?

Also Aronis, you are trying hard to fit a narrative to me which is disturbing. Either you're scum or you're bad town.

I mean the fact that you're trying to decide what I would think or do as town or scum when SON YOU DONT KNOW ME is in itself bizarre.

[elusive]

All that has been and all that will be is here for you to know. Dare you glimpse the future? Dare you even ask...?

Day 2's Fortunate Horoscope Recipient (11)

Metal Sonic -- Scorpio

Day 2's Unfortunate Horoscope Recipient (12)

startfromtheheart -- Libra

These two players will receive horoscopes via PM in preparation for the next day phase.

Is that not above ?

Hermy, scumprobably thought they could turn the Tammy NK into a FOS on me and waste time that way or get me mislynched on stupid logic.

[elusive]

I was hoping my suspicion on T ammy would prevent her from being an NK target because once again shes the first day nK target. meh.

I'm very resistant to voting Nacho, what do you think of Ricastle, Aronis and Farside?

[elusive]

Don't make me rip off your arm and beat you over the head with it.

[elusive]

I'm still evolving, its a WIP

[elusive]

on vla till Thursday, should check in on my phone when I can.

With my Tammy read being off, idk.

I don't like Ric and Aronis push on me esp. Aronis push since day one, no other scumspects or no analysis of the game itself. Bad.

[elusive]

Go cry in the corner. If you can't make a case or have actual reasons then guess what, you're not town your a bad player who wait for it...has no other reads, nor content. Worthless playstyles are worthless.

I don't think Mainez is scum.

I still find massive to be odd, selective engagement much?

Farside, the better question to you and your buddies is - Why am I scum? Try answering in more than monosyllables. I mean you can't be this incompetent can you? Or are you struggling to carry the dead weight that is Aronis and Ricastle?

I think lynching one of Aronis or Ricastle proves the most fruitful today.

Metal, Mainez, Hermy, town players of all capabilities please let's have a wagon on Aronis and maybe a counter on Ricastle. <3

[elusive]

Aronis - tunneling me from early day one, does not take anything else into account. Has no change in reads, seems to be on the popular wagon. Classic scum tactic.

Ricastle - as town is able to make cases, here is not only flailing but misread and confused for me another player and continues to tunnel. Nope this is scum Ric.

Massive - maybe you need to read my sign description, I always think everything is about me. I also have a lot of experience with scum trying to mess with me\tunnel me\frustrate me. Not only that but see thread and reasons for scum reading me lol. The WIFOM douchery is strong with some.

Farside - as town is able to make cases and be logical, here is sheeping the dumbest of the lot lol

[elusive]

Nacho's not here. So how to read him? Why would he defend me? Scum rarely defend me in games, instead they keep bringing up my name over and over in hopes to mislynch me and create drama. See: Various games, some of which I replaced out of.

The fact that he's lurking is the reason I would vote him but idk, it doesn't feel right.

My reads in this game might be off a little for now but usually I have a 1/2 "found scum" ratio or better.

[elusive]

Why would nacho ask town to vote him at the last moment?

Hermy, why are you setting up mislynches? Or at least mine?

If Nacho flips town then I'm right and most of you suck. If he flips scum then idk that is weird play for scum.

[elusive]

Ricastle is scum. ANyone able to look at his other game on this site can tell the difference.Hell I played with him in Apocalypse and thought he was scum there but here he is going above and beyond to be dense, insipid and tunnel with really bad reasons.

Like he hasn't fucking explained his inability to read the game and confusion over attributing a totally different players shitty actions (lane) on me. THen when I confronted his awfulness he DIDNT say or LANE IS A SCUMMY FUCK FOR THE THING I WAS ACCUSING YOU OF BEING A SCUMMY FUCK FOR. Instead he meanders on his shit reads.

Nacho, you better not be scum bro.

Town needs to lynch Ricastle, like asap or start you've seen my reformed antihero side, my scary side is something else altogether.

[elusive]

VOTE: Ricastle

I will cut you.

[elusive]

OMG, like seriously? I have asked you to explain your scum reads. Like, no Ricastle.

[elusive]

No, I will get modkilled or banned or do you not know my notorious history?

[elusive]

start, what are your scum reads other then nacho?

[elusive]

I feel like nacho was more fun as scum, here he's kind of boring and lacks charmingness.

[elusive]

Ricastle is scum. I will die for this lynch.

Ric, your "give up" attitude is bizarre and I've never seen it in your town games so idk but its quite heartbreaking and you going to get slayed for it which if you're town (like in the words of Buzz Lightyear)

Eh, at the end of the day, there really is nothing I can say in my defence in regards to the accusations toward me. I have not played well, there's do doubt about that, and if I'm to be lynched for it, then I won't put up a fight.

Ricastle giving up like this? We spent pages in Acopalypse in a town vs. town brawl.

Nobody

needs

to explain anything to you.

Well ultimately, it'll be bad for the other town more than me if I'm blindly lynched...scum will be having a house party while town will be flailing around looking stupid.

I reread ric and saw he didn't really explain his vote. When he got a response it caught my attention he didn't unvote.
The vote he did place on elusive was very awkward,
Instead of scum hunting afterwards, metal calls him out and he basically omgus votes metal for doing so.

I have not been very engaged in this game, no doubt about that.

I can't even remember why I voted elusive now...you should read my case on MS though, because it's definitely more than OMGUS.

I am going to make a bet now that Ricastle has no clue why he's voting anyone because he's pretending to be busy in this game by voting people but, unlike all his town games, he has no reasons why and is making up shit. You know Ric as town you can be pretty off the wall but this is a new low for you, scummy boi.

Yeah, you know what. I'm fine with this. I'm not remotely invested in this game and can't see myself contributing meaningfully in the near future.

Sorry for my bad play, guys, really. MS and lane are the most likely scum on my wagon. See you in the next life...

Town Ricastle is a maniac, he will fight like a mad dog. This is not town Ric.

Now let's look at Ric's one scum game on here (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6959258). His tone is more cooperative (with bursts of fake anger) and he's trying to be congenial. He also is more jokey and continues to be as scum in this game.

OH and scumreads from Ricastle so far: elusive, metal sonic (who he tunnels for a good long while and then drops at the drop of a...nothing), lane, mainez, nacho, and then back to elusive.

Of course he's asking some people on his scum reads lists to help him vote people he refers to as scum. So Ric what's your read on Metal, Mainez, Lane, me, Nacho right now? Is 5 a bit of a high number of scum?

He votes me for voting Aronis is what it feels like. His interactions with Farside are a little weird too, its like he's afraid of her or something.

Suddnely Mainez, who I tried to lynch at game end yesterday is now my scum partner for defending me and so is nacho. So he's attacking people who may try to townread me. Why?

Then AGAIN he states that if Nacho flips town (which why are you voting him then if you have doubts) we should lynch Lane. Where's the vote on Lane or the case? Or anything connecting these apparently 5 scum reads that Ricastle keeps ricocheting off?

#1175 by Ric is a lie.

[elusive]

Yeah, that's what ELUSIVE is doing...and then you go on to defend elusive. Lol.

Okay, ignore this. I swear this happened but apparently not.

OMG, Ricastle. Look you misread the game? Wowza.

[elusive]

Ricastle, I stalk you in your other games. I am a stalker and you are not Town Ric in this game. Do not make excuses. I have lived in your skin and this is not it.

I meant to say something about nacho but I lost my train of thought being creepy.

[elusive]

THEN Why aren't you voting Ricastle, Hermy?

Same for you Metal Sonic.

I feel like I maybe be able to replace "creepy" fro "Buttercup Rage Mode." This will be fun, I guess.

Farside, read on Ricastle?

[elusive]

Answer me, teddy.

[elusive]

There's this game called Naughty Bear. U should look it up, bro. What happens to the bears that don't invite Maleficient..I mean Naughty Bear to the party....

Metal Sonic - my love is creepy...do you got issues? What are your reads little metallic thingy?

[elusive]

Oh, Teddy let's play the analysis game:

If Nacho is town then who's scum\town in this situation?
If Nacho is scum then same question.

[elusive]

Metal, there's different kinds of love.

Love for a chocolate cupcake. Love for a kitten. Etc.

Then there's "love to see you dead for being scum" which is the torch I'm holding for Ricastle. He's not the only one. Is that the kind of love you want in mafia life because it requires death at some point and like barbed wire.

Rope for Ricastle, please.

[elusive]

RICASTLE/MAINEZ/MASSIVE

METAL SONIC IS NOT SCUM

If you flip town, I will reign terror in this thread.

[elusive]

No one is safe.

[elusive]

Or ever will be.

[elusive]

What's proven? Because it had better not be that MS is town because Nacho who, if town, has no idea of anyone else's alignment, said so...

You are scum and will die for it.

Farside is being whack.

MS is probably not scum.

[elusive]

So resistance to a Ricastle lynch huh.

Filth.

[elusive]

VOTE: Ricastle

1 vs 1 are for the worthy, there are too many unworthy.

[elusive]

I'd sheep Nacho, actually. I'd like to see the head of the teddy bear cut off and put on a pike. But in this game there are many people who would look better drawn and quartered.

[elusive]

Wrath is one of those sins that I'm just exquisite at, so bring it. It's been a while since I lit people on fire.

[elusive]

I think people confuse being super annoyed with a player and thinking they are scum, it's not the same thing. Check yo'self etc.

[elusive]

You are scum.

[elusive]

Jump off a bridge

[elusive]

That about sums up your entire existence and your playstyle. Word.

[elusive]

I love when scum attempt to talk about my playstyle rather than the game. So cool, its like a pattern.

start, there's a rule that if you link a game then you better say something substantial about it like you know what...maybe tell us why you mentioned it and offer some meta.

[elusive]

Ricastle's lynch has so much resistant because of the scum lurkers and town doofs, he's scum and town will join or perish.

[elusive]

Isn't there anyone in this town besides Nacho that I could work with and be inspired by and adore? Or is this just one of those towns that are dusty and grimy with ghosts and the misbegotten?

[elusive]

I knew a boy named Joe, Aronis is a stranger.

I wish scum would kill me.

[elusive]

i think this is the way to go
VOTE: St Constatine the Hermit

One of you or massive is scum too.

[elusive]

Constantine, have you played with Rampage?

[elusive]

How about you absolve your play on day two in getting obvi town lynched. Now do the wagon analysis or whatever to prove that you aren't full of it.

*I wish for a fortunate horoscope\day vig at some point bc I will use it right away.

[elusive]

I'm not talking to you Ricastle, I'm speaking to Constantine the wannabe Rampage but falls short of a few inches. Okay? I already know what you are, there's nothing you could do except flip that would convince me otherwise. 1 vs. 1 are not for scum.

[elusive]

Although its nice to see Ric having given up lol, so obviously scummy babe.

[elusive]

What did you get from killing nacho yesterday, why should anyone care or follow or not push you into a vat of lava?

[elusive]

I'm suspicious of Aronis and massive, I have to think about Mainez. A part of me is 100% sure that Ricastle is scum. I don't trust Constantine. I am never scum unfortunately. And being scum is easier, I'm starting to hate being town.

[elusive]

I might vote massive, but if he flips town like nacho did then idk I guess bad things will happen. Mainez has two horoscopes. However, scum can't be vanilla otherwise how they would make NKs? So its town that needs the horoscopes more?

Aronis is replacing out? Probably scum too then tbh. Which of his scum buddies bussed him lol?

[elusive]

VOTE: Massive

Let's see where the freaking teddy bear leads.

People town reading Hermit are whack too.

[elusive]

Are you scum?

[elusive]

There's too much lurking, so that means I should prolly replace out soon before I get pissed.

Come on the fucking hell town, like what the fuck does it require to sign up for a game and play it?

[elusive]

I thought Kayp and her replace out was scummy. I'm open to Massive although I am telling you guys its Ricastle he's the serial killer. WHO ELSE WOULD KILL FARSIDE LIKE THT? I need to find farsides quote about me and put in my spoiler.

HErmit, if MAsssive is town which I don't think so and you then lynch me you'll have done 3 mislynches in a row and by GOd I hope town murders you.

Ric, Aquarius There's this guy I once knew...

[elusive]

Town, Massive or Ricastle? I think we should go Ricastle tbh, I'm certain he's scum and my radar recently was proven right.

Plz help.

VOTE: Ricastle

[elusive]

Are you Rampage or Nero?

[elusive]

Holy fuck, would town get their heads out of their whatnot and vote someone or give reads. And not doofus ones either.

Constantine, you are bad at reads\cases and lynched an obviously town Nacho.

I reread all of farside's posts and she townread massive's slot for having played with it before and scumread ricastle. I will choose her reads over yours because yours are worse then crap. At least crap fertilizes the soil or some nature stuff like that. Worthless reads, worthless playstyle and somehow still barking.

[elusive]

You may

why

p-edit: nero wouldnt shamelessly resort to an AtE like Day 1 imo

rampage might make sense though

I want him to answer and he's avoided answering because either he's doing A or B and that will help me figure out his alignment.

start, why aren't you voting Ricastle? I've played with Ric and this is scum him, I can feel it in my bones.

Sala, can you at least put a vote down on Ric, before you leave?

[elusive]

Don't hate, you know I'm good at feeling out scum with my psychic powers.

[elusive]

No, you used a tactic that I've seen only a few other players use and I thought you had reasoning behind it. You don't at all. The mislynch wasn't that simple, you managed to take out Nacho who's like a top dog so that requires 1. scum buddies helping you to redirect\etc 2. knowledge that shouldn't be yours. I need to reread but if you're scum then everyone you were pushing for is probably town which means sorting your alignment is key to town and town needs to stop sheeping mindlessly.

Now you're allegedly sheeping Nacho's reads? How the fuck is anything confirmed? Your post #1378 and #1390 states that Ricastle and Massive are scum and you mention Ricastle several times on day one but now you drop him? Why?

[elusive]

You don't need to simply ISO me, teddy. You can also meta me using my Wiki.

I thought you were someone else but they are a lot better at explaining their reasoning and you aren't so obviously that narrows down the window.

Lynch Ricastle with me, if he doesn't flip scum then we can do massive next. Or are you backtracking on the reads you've been shouting from the rooftops since day one?

[elusive]

He "confirmed" near daystart that massive and ricastle were scum. I'm trying to get ricastle, his confirmed scumread (who he also scumread on day one) lynched for being scummy and he turns around and calls me confirmed scum. LOL.

[elusive]

That's fucking convenient bullshit and you know it Hermit. Puke.

[elusive]

Mainez and massive and salamence and etc please vote Ricastle, this tells us whether farside was right in her reads which I think she was killed dfor and whether Hermit is just FOSing Ricastle but trying to save him which is scum tactics 101.

No, Hermit. Do you know why? Because we do Ricastle today to prove that you aren't aligned him as outlined above and then if I'm alive and Ric doesn't flip scum then I'll compromise.

[elusive]

I read the thread and looked at farside's reads. She read massive as town and kayp as town, then I looked at kayp's scum game and decided that the slot was lean town here. She also read Ric as scum and considering both of us have a lot of experience with him (lucky you Ric), I trust my gut read + my lady love's read.

HEY TOWN BABES AND ETC, Hermit just confirmed he's scum. He's been FOSing Ricastle since he entered but refuses to vote his "confirm scum" read.

Hawt, if we lynch Ric and he flips scum I will be on a streak. Then we can do the teddy bear.

[elusive]

start, What to do, is it just me or is town apathetic as fuck?

Constantine, want to make a bet honey? We get Ric voted and if I don't see him hang, I'll self-vote. K?

[elusive]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

[elusive]

Scum slips are my fave thing ever.

[elusive]

I hate everyone alive in this game. Boom.

Massive, as town Ricastle provides reads\interacts\fights\yells at people and is logical and can put himself in a leadership position. He's done nothing in this game that reflects his town game, he's far more passive and doesn't seem to really care\engage. Look at his other games whether complete or on-going, the tone and the feeling is different.

Ricastle, you're in defense mode which isn't typical of town you, as town you provide reads on everyone even if they are off and charge forth aggressively. Here you're like a little turtle peeking out of its shell. If you aren't scum, I'll owe you an apology but I know that you are most likely scum and lynching you helps figure out Hermit's fake hard on for you, etc.

[elusive]

Why is your vote on me again? Incompetent wretches.

[elusive]

Hey Massive, I have you reasoning. Do you have anything to say about that or are you going to continue to pretend to be obtuse.

Hermit, might be scum. Ricastle flip will tell us more since Hermit pushed him like a beast and then when his wagon seemed possible backed off. I don't like him or his lack of reasoning. Ditto on lane, either scum or horrific town. Pick a door any door.

[elusive]

Look at Apocalypse which is finished.

About the daykill plan, I have to think about it but horoscopes are random. Maybe he knew that town had to have it and wanted it to go off?.

Like he still isn't giving reads or doing anything, I know town Ric and he's not being town this game. I don't think he has the cleverness to change his meta that quickly either. Most players don't

[elusive]

Why?

[elusive]

You've never been unable to make cases. So. Why?

Aries is cool, who are the Aries in the game?

[elusive]

What do you think about the point I made about Mainez and how OP it would be for scum to have their abilities plus two fortunate horoscopes?

I'll have to meta her at some point, Iguess. DIfficulties never end.

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So you seem to be ignoring farisde reading ricastle as scum, why?

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You switched from calling Ricastle scum to town as if it were 100% and so either your scum or wait your scum. Your playstyle is disgusting and I dislike it intensely.

Town needs to vote, if you have neither the balls or boobs to put in a vote on a wagon that might move then please replace the fuck out.

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If it goes to no lynch then I'm replacing out, I can't do any more games where scum win through lurking.

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EXCUSE YOU

I'm not avoiding the thread, this game is laggard asf.

We can't get people on the right lynch.

SO yeah.

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I refuse to cooperate with Constantine in any way shape or form.

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Super cool

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Nacho was awesome this game, my own play was horribad.

Ricastle - you played so weirdly in this game, lol.

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Thanks, Red Coyote for the game and also the theme was cool!