Mini 460 - Werewolves! Game over.

[Blight]

Here's my thing on AlSleet. I don't trust him. I really don't. It's not because his Vigilante claim reeked of desperation, and it's not because that on Day 2 there was only one kill. It's because, during day one, his push to get Shismatized lynched wasn't trying to do what's best for the town. He put Schis at L-2 when the votes started to stack up, and he wanted Schis gone "town or not". I honestly don't think he's vigilante. He's most likely either SK or scum.

As far as keeping him around to kill on the side of townies, I think that's an extremely bad idea. Calling his kills? That's even worse. He'll be doing the werewolves job for them. If they like who he'll target, they'll let it go. If not, they'll stop it.

To answer the question why AlSleet is still alive (assuming he's not scum). I think the most probable explanation is because the werewolves have a role-blocker that can control him. With the roleblocker blocking his role, only one night kill occurs. With only one night kill, AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2. The scum probably think it would be easy to get him hanged (again, this is assuming AlSleet isn't scum, himself).

As for as I'm concerned, even if AlSleet is a vigilante, keeping him around is pointless because he's pretty much useless. I guess we could keep him around, have him not call his kill, and see if there's two kills. If there isn't, it's pretty much confirmed that there's a mafia role-blocker or he's lying about being a vigilante. Again, that depends on whether people want to risk losing three townie's in a span of one day and one night.

Moving on.

There's his quote, and you are making QUITE a stretch to say that he is calling for AlSleet to no-kill every night.

In the very same message

he tosses out that we could ask him to no kill and see if there was 2 kills, he says that keeping AlSleet around is pretty much useless. (Remember the flip flopping? Yeah.) All he did in that sentence was say that he wanted him gone, but "I guess" we could keep him around to see if there is two kills or not if we tell him not to kill tonight. That's a far cry from "Lets keep him around and have him no kill every night".

Sigh. I've already explained that quote. If you don't want to bother reading it I'm not going to bother explaining it again.

I was the one that said explicitly that we could have AlSleet no kill every night, no caveat about whether there was 2 kills, or saying it was a setup to prove/disprove AlSleet's claim of Vig.

You suggested having AlSleet no kill

only

when I confronted you about having him make a kill just to "prove" himself. And let me ask you. If AlSleet does decide to no kill what's the point in keeping him around even on the slight chance that he is Vigilante (a claim that many people doubted). Wasn't that the main reason he survived passed day 1? He was most likely the one that was going to be lynched and it was because he claimed to be a vigilante that he wasn't. Now you're suggesting that he doesn't "prove himself", essentially giving him a free ride (because no one's going to kill the Vig, yet he's under no obligation to "prove" his claim). Doesn't that sound like you're contradicting your own statements?

That last question was rhetorical. Apparently I need to state that whenever I'm talking to you too.

Did you anywhere in your post say that AlSleet was a good lynch for today? I know he said that he was speaking in terms of the wolves in his "AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2" statement, but you cant say that about his follow up statement that "Keeping AlSleet around is pretty much useless". It took quite a pounding before he backed off dropping little lines like that. I also dont see where anyone can square that line:
"Keeping AlSleet around is pretty much useless"
with
"I haven't been calling AlSleet today's lynch."
and then later
"The only reason I didn't vote for AlSleet is because I think Ecto's scummier."

Again, I've already explained that quote. Not going to waste my time saying it again. Just read over what I've already said. And, yes, the only reason I'm not voting AlSleet or DS or Panzer or anyone else is because I think you're scummy. If I had some sort of superpower vote, I'd vote for everyone. Unfortunately, I only have one vote and I'm focusing it on you or Numenorean.

Whatever. If you cant see all the subtle (really not so subtle at all) pushes for an AlSleet lynch, followed by the admission that he would be voting AlSleet if it werent for me, how than can you say his position has been to keep AlSleet and have him no kill?
Additionally, since you are keeping tight watch on the chronology here, I thought you said Blight wanted to keep AlSleet to No Kill, because calling his kill is scummy. But then after that he is trying to call AlSleet's kill! He only apologizes after he is called out for doing what he says is scummy.

Yes, I admitted I got caught up in the moment. I want you lynched. That's no secret. After a while, I had a chance to calm down and realize that what I did was wrong. Apparently, admitting that you got caught up in the moment is also a "scumtell". AlSleet's free to kill whoever he wants (if he really is a Vig/SK). If he chooses to kill me, fine. I'll live with it. Hopefully, though, everyone will realize that you should have been lynched today and they'll rectify that tomorrow.

Oh, and thank you for having me go back and dig through his post, because he is so scummy, the material keeps coming out. How about this one?

If there isn't, it's pretty much confirmed that there's a mafia role-blocker or he's lying about being a vigilante.

Oh really? Did you forget about a Doc? There is either a mafia roleblocker or he is lying?
Blight, you tipped your hand here or just demonstrated clearly that you are latching on to an idea and clinging there despite a lack of facts. It sounds to me like you are saying there is a mafia roleblocker and you know it, but how could you know it? Only an informed minority would know because guess what, we haven't seen any evidence of it that couldnt easily be explained away by a role that actually is a standard role for normal mini's. You should probably wait for more conclusive evidence to surface before you start confirming your partners role like that. That way you don't demonstrate knowledge that you should not have if you were town.

Yeah, you're right. I did "tip my hand". Apparently having the doc protect AlSleet's target twice in a row isn't too much of a coincidence for you. Sorry, bud, but I'd find that to be too much of a coincidence. The most plausible idea, if that situation occured, was that someone was blocking AlSleet or he's lying. Unless we have some sort of super doc that knows exactly who AlSleet targets EVERY FREAKIN' NIGHT than, yeah, I'd put my money on a roleblocker (which I've already said a number of times - but your biggest asset seems to be talking and not reading - that a roleblocker in a werewolves games seems very unlikely) or he's lying.

[d3sisted]

Ok, I've gone through a reread and made a major refinement to my analysis of this game, and come up with entirely new suspicions.

LOS, no particular order
-KScope
-OTM
-Blight
-Numen7

Understand, Blight and Numen are on the list only because of their predecessors. I need a while to brood over this list, I'll let you guys know if I come up with anything.

Unvote

[Numenorean7]

Isn't the argument for a vig no-kill a lot like the fallacious argument for a no-lynch? A random vig actually has a greater chance of hitting scum than a random lynch, because a vig can't kill himself. The way I see it, a vig effectively gives the town another lynch, which is a good thing. Is there something wrong with my reasoning?

Ok, I've gone through a reread and made a major refinement to my analysis of this game, and come up with entirely new suspicions.

LOS, no particular order
-KScope
-OTM
-Blight
-Numen7

Understand, Blight and Numen are on the list only because of their predecessors. I need a while to brood over this list, I'll let you guys know if I come up with anything.
Unvote

That's your, what, third time to re-read? I'm all for fresh perspectives, but these paradigm-shift-rereads seems to be getting a little out of hand.

[PJ.]

I'm with numen. Can you really change your mind that many times on the same shit?

[Ectomancer]

There's 35 pages to be sorted through, give the guy a break.
I say that only because Im trying real hard to suck up. <joke, hahah>
But really, 35 pages.....


@Blight - I'm not going over the same old things with you again. But you keep bringing up the same old theme again and again.

If AlSleet does decide to no kill what's the point in keeping him around even on the slight chance that he is Vigilante (a claim that many people doubted)

Because if he is a Vigilante, it means he is town? Hello? Once again we have your (not even subtle) push to lynch AlSleet. Listen, town is valuable to us just by virtue of being town. Leave him be and hunt actual scum. Even if he is an SK, his number counts against scum, so with 2 town, 2 scum, and 1 SK, the game still goes on.
If we get to the point where we think we got the scum, and the game is still on, we lynch AlSleet, or at some point we ask him to kill himself at night. If he does, well he was town, if he doesn't, he is SK and we lynch him the next day.

[d3sisted]

I'm with numen. Can you really change your mind that many times on the same shit?

Haha, that's the beauty of this game, my friend!

Oh, and you're still on my suspect list.

[Blight]

There's 35 pages to be sorted through, give the guy a break.
I say that only because Im trying real hard to suck up. <joke, hahah>
But really, 35 pages.....


@Blight - I'm not going over the same old things with you again. But you keep bringing up the same old theme again and again.

If AlSleet does decide to no kill what's the point in keeping him around even on the slight chance that he is Vigilante (a claim that many people doubted)

Because if he is a Vigilante, it means he is town? Hello?

That's right. I forgot. He

says

he's a Vig, which means he's town. Anyone else see the circular logic there?

He says he's vig, which could be a BS claim or not. He was close to being lynched on day 1, so he makes the claim. Many people doubt the claim, but you push for keeping him around to get the extra lynch or whatever. The idea is to have him make a kill at night to prove his claim, even though finding scum on day 1 has a very low success rate. So, essentially the idea is to get two townies killed by day 2. I call you on it, so you switch your stance to not having AlSleet do any night kills. So, essentially, the only arguement for keeping AlSleet around is now gone. But, he's still town because he says he's a Vig (according to you) and now he doesn't even have to offer any kind of evidence (again according to you). What happens if he's scum? We're still looking for that third scum and, while everyone still have their suspicions of him, no one touches him because "he's town" or "if he's SK we can lynch him after all the scum are gone".

Sorry if I don't agree with your logic.

And, again, I'm not pushing for an AlSleet lynch. I'm pushing for

yours

. I'm not questioning AlSleet's logic. I'm questioning

yours

.

You don't want me to bring up AlSleet? Then don't bring him up yourself. Everything I brought up was in response to

your

quotes.

[Ectomancer]

Listen, this is the last time I'll explain. You say things like this, you are pushing for a lynch.

If AlSleet does decide to no kill what's the point in keeping him around even on the slight chance that he is Vigilante (a claim that many people doubted)

You continue on about AlSleet some more, making a case for lynching him. So quit saying you aren't pushing for an AlSleet lynch. As for me continuing to bring it up? I was responding to d3sisted if you hadn't read the previous posts. You addressed the quote without even talking about why it was brought up in the conversation at that point. It certainly wasn't so I could hear once again why you don't understand why AlSleet's disposition can be sleuthed out or eliminated before he is a problem. It is very possible a town member already has confirmation on him, but obviously cant say anything about it. There are plenty of means at our disposal for determining his alignment, including having him nightkill himself to prove he is what he claims. I noticed you ignored that option when I brought it up, choosing instead to continue pushing your lynch case on him. (I know, you aren't pushing to lynch him) And for the record, yes I'll want to see nightkill confirmation from a claimed Vig even on Day 1. As Numenorean pointed out, Vig has a better chance of killing scum than town does simply by virtue of eliminating himself as a target. Im willing to go the more laborious route of no kills however, since a majority of people seem to have little faith in AlSleet's target choice after Qman was listed as target #1.

[d3sisted]

The reason I'm unvoting Panzer is because I don't think a scum would've been bold enough to hammer so close to the deadline. Furthermore, the first thing he did when AlSleet claimed Vig was vote him. Again, I don't think scum would be bold enough to hammer a confirmed power role.

As for AlSleet, if you guys really want that "second lynch", fine. But if only one kill shows up tomorrow, he's gone.

I'm inclined to believe both Theopor and Bethelmark were scum... odd how both their replacements are sso much less scummier.

[Blight]

LOL. Ecto, man, you mention AlSleet, my name gets brought up, and I'm not supposed to respond or else I look like scum?

Sounds like nothing more than a set up to me.

How can you honestly say that a Vig has a better chance of hitting scum then town? I'll give you we (most likely) lose one town due to a lynch. And, if he's a Vig, he's town. That's still 7 townies to 3 scum. Do you honestly think he has a better chance of hitting scum, especially with only day 1 info to go on? That's a 70% chance he kills another townie. And by day 2 we're down 3 townies instead of 2.

As for killing himself? If you're naive enough to think that he's going to kill himself, whether he's Vig, SK, or Scum, fine. I don't buy it. Also, when do you suggest we make that offer to him? You seem to think that we have plenty of time. We don't. If you haven't noticed, if we get this lynch wrong and AlSleet doesn't kill a mafia member (assuming he has that ability) then tomorrow's lynch or lose.

As for this?

Listen, this is the last time I'll explain. You say things like this, you are pushing for a lynch.

If AlSleet does decide to no kill what's the point in keeping him around even on the slight chance that he is Vigilante (a claim that many people doubted)

Pay attention. That's a question directed at you, and rather than answering it a number of times you turn it around to me "pushing for AlSleet's lynch". You wanted to keep him around after day 1 because of his night kills. Now that that's no longer a factor, what was the reason of keeping him around past day 1?

[DeathSauce]

Why haven't we lynched PanzerJager yet?

Though I'm incredibly against Panzer, the way you put this so blatantly draws my attention.

I was merely imitating Panzer's flawless technique. I do regret that post if it makes you feel any better.

I think I'll wait until there is a chance Ecto will go down, unlike SOME players in this game...

I'm tired of all these goddamned secrets in this thread. First AlSleet, then KScope, then Ecto and now you? I don't think so.

You should consider that it's possible that explaining my position could hurt the town, which is not something I am willing to do. If you are really upset with the "secrets" look to Blight and K-Scope, they are the ones insisting we believe their shadowy claims blindly. By the way, you never answered OTM when he asked you if you believed in Blight and K-Scope's hints in post 827.

Here, I'll make this easier for you:

Vote: DeathSauce

It can either come out now, or never. Your call.

5: Deathsauce (d3sisted, Ectomancer, Panzerjager, HH, Kscope)

2: Panzerjager (Alsleet, Deathsauce)
2: numenorean7 (Blight, OTM)
1: blight (Numenorean7)
Not voting:
6 to lynch, 3 at deadline

That wasn't very nice. I'm glad you got over it.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Have catched up. Unable to reread num. Still happy with my vote on DS. That is all.

[d3sisted]

I'm pretty sure I answered it already, but...
Yes, I believe Blight and KScope's hints.

I'm gonna go with my gut and

Vote: Bethelmark

.

[d3sisted]

EBWOP:

Vote: Numen7

[Off the Mark]

I'm pretty sure I answered it already, but...
Yes, I believe Blight and KScope's hints.

Has that changed since the top of the page, when they were on your suspicious list?

[Numenorean7]

Blight, your argument about a vig being bad for the town is the same as the argument about a lynch being bad for the town. You say a vig is harmful, but isn't it a proven fact that a lynch is good for the town in most situations? How is a vig kill any different? You say we don't have enough info D1: then why not advocate a no-lynch?

d3sisted, if you are as unsure of your opinions as you seem to be, why don't you keep your mouth shut until you have something to say which you won't take back in your next post? KScope was at the top of your scumlist, and Blight was third. Now you say you believe them!

FoS: d3sisted

for blatant flip-flopping. And are you seriously suggesting Blight and myself as scumpartners?

If my figuring is correct, here is our current votecount:

4: Deathsauce

(Panzerjager, Honary Hitchiker, Kscope, Ectomancer)

3: Numenorean7

(blight, OTM, d3sisted)

2: Panzerjager

(Alsleet, Deathsauce)

1: Blight

(Numenorean7)

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch

[PJ.]

I'm really concerned about his flip flopping. Actually, He saw my wagon pick up and jumped on immediately, he realized it wasn't going anywhere so unvotes. Starts spouting off these events that happened 5-10 pages ago that he has reread numerous time have changed his mind completely. He post a List of Suspicion has Kscope, Blight, OTM and Numen on it, Then tells me I'm on it out of the blue. Please make up your mind when you post. On top of all this he say the numen wagon built, which is why he unvoted me, weaited a few bullshit post and jumps on the Numen wagon with Blight(1st on his List Of Suspicion) and OTM(second).
What exactly is it Numen has done sense the list was posted to be considered your number 1 when he was originally number 4?

I also don't like how he suddenly buys Blight and Kscopes hints. In light of this I want everyone to take sides right now. Either you're willing to accept the hints as of your next post or you're not. I want clear aswers to this in everyone's next post please.

To answer Numens question. A vig kill could wreck the town. If the vig hits town, we mislynch, and Mafia kills gets through this game becomes LYLO on day 3.. If vig kill would have went through Night 1 and we could have very well lost tonight if there is 3 mafia. Desisted, why are you so sure it is 7 town to 3 Mafia. Are you sure there isn't Godfather plus Maf Roleblocker or Godfather and Goon? Why did no one ask how he was so positive there are 3 scum?

To end my post, I will

Very Strong FoS: Desisted

. I feel he is most likely scum with Deathsauce and OTM/Numen or He's scum with Blight and Kscope.

[d3sisted]

I guess you guys didn't catch this:

LOS,

no particular order

-KScope
-OTM
-Blight
-Numen7

Kscope and Blight are on there because I'm not sure if I believe KScope's hints anymore. Blight is on there because I suspect theopor.

[d3sisted]

And wow, didn't expect such a response from Numen7. Don't know if it means anything, but calm down; it's just a game. Don't like my indecisiveness, vote me lynched. That simple.

[Off the Mark]

Numen's last post is giving me town vibes.

unvote

I'm considering voting for desisted or Deathsauce. I'll think a bit and look things over again.

[Shanba]

Vote Count of howling at the moon for some reason only known to lupine minds

6 to lynch, 3 at deadline

4: Deathsauce

(Panzerjager, Honary Hitchiker, Kscope, Ectomancer,)

2: Numenorean7

(blight, d3sisted)

2: Panzerjager

(Alsleet, Deathsauce)

1: blight

(Numenorean7)

Not voting: OTM

Honary Hitchiker will be replaced: Despite picking up his role PM, he has not yet picked up his prod or posted in thread.

[DeathSauce]

K-scope has completely gone to ground since he screwed up and tried to save his scumbuddy. He's posting nothing but short sentences, including this gem:
[quote]I agree with whats being said. Blight, do your job as townie.
[/quote]
Seriously, some of you

believe

in this guy? What does that post even mean?

I have to put my vote on the scummiest player.

unvote, vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

Shanba:

Thanks for staying on top of the game, I think you might have set a record for replacements

[Off the Mark]

^^^ that made up my mind. Honestly, DS, how can you claim to be a townie who doesn't see what is going on there with the Kscope/Blight hints? That seems impossible to me, therefore you must be scum.

vote: DeathSauce

[DeathSauce]

I submit that is, in fact, you who are blind to the obvious.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

DS, you've been crying bull whole game. To say it straight: so far, even Blight has done a better job at being a townie, so that's saying something.