Mini 460 - Werewolves! Game over.

[Off the Mark]

Honestly, OTM, I am beginning to think you are delighting in trying to drive me insane with your unwillingness to be suspicious of anyone but me.

Wow, DS, once again, extreme paranoia from you. I have mentioned LOTS of players I am suspicious of lately, but you are fixated only on my suspicion of you. Very very strange.

[d3sisted]

@OTM: I was basically saying that Ectomancer was attacking Blight with such undue belligerence that I'm inclined to believe Ecto was trying to distance from Blight. It's just the way he slammed Blight, sounded almost unreal.

[Off the Mark]

Oh, ok, I misunderstood. So you think Blight and Kscope's hints are lies?

[Numenorean7]

I find it very interesting that Blight has switched to me now that OTM is voting me too. Since it looks like neither a DS or Ecto lynch is going to work, you're getting together against me....

If you paid any attention, you would know Numenorean isn't the lynch. Quit being so damn scummy. The only reason you are being left alone is due to the as yet unverified word of K-Scope. I still hope K-Scope has more evidence on you than a "feeling".

I agree with OTM: this post is kind weird. Though I know that Ecto can't be scum with me, it still looks a bit strange. "You would know Numenorean isn't the lynch?" I agree Blight's vote seemed scummy, but why am I so definitely not the lynch?

Come on everyone, open your eyes. Look at how Blight has been acting. You are letting KScope's vague hints cripple you. Why is he so convincing?

[DeathSauce]

I have a pretty good idea exactly why Ecto made that post, and it absolutely confirms him as town.

[Ectomancer]

Numenorean isn't the lynch. I can explain why, but not today.

I would give credence to a Blight/Ecto bus myself if standing on the outside. However, I think he is acting scummy, and if he is town as K-Scope is hinting then I'm annoyed and thus may seem a bit harsh.

[d3sisted]

I did a reread and I consider Blight pro-town. Moreover, I completely agree with his stance on AlSleet.

I didn't believe AlSleet's claim before, I'm not believing it now. But let's imagine for a moment AlSleet really does have an NK, random hitting is not the way to go, as there will always be a higher chance of hitting a town than scum. Calling his shots is an even worse idea because we could be doing the mafia's job for them. If we're going to let him live, he calls his own [random]shots. However, given his hit on qman, that's not a viable solution either.

I support Blight's suggestion to have the claimed Vig send no-kills henceforth. We can assume townie:scum ratio is 7:3, meaning he is twice as likely to hit a town than scum... does that mean nothing to you people?

Let's make this clear now, I'm not suggesting we lynch AlSleet. If he really is a vig/SK, let mafia waste an NK taking care of him. We can always lynch him later.

Call me gullible, but I pretty much bought into KScope's "cop claim" or "mason claim" or whatever. Blight is not our man, he thinks with the mind of a townie.

Though I can't really say if DeathSauce is scum, I'm feeling really sketchy about the players trying to push for his lynch (i.e. Ectomancer, Panzerjager, HH, Kscope). For now, I'm going to

Confirm Vote: Panzerjager

[Off the Mark]

I support Blight's suggestion to have the claimed Vig send no-kills henceforth. We can assume townie:scum ratio is 7:3, meaning he is twice as likely to hit a town than scum... does that mean nothing to you people?

But you could say the same thing about our lynching efforts. If the lynch was random, we'd have twice the chance of hitting a townie than we would scum. But the fact is, the lynch is

not

random and hopefully neither is AISleet's kill. If we stuck to your plan, we'd no lynch every night and lose. At some point, we gotta take the risk.

[Off the Mark]

Though I can't really say if DeathSauce is scum, I'm feeling really sketchy about the players trying to push for his lynch (i.e. Ectomancer, Panzerjager, HH, Kscope).

Oh wow, scum vibes are a-tingling. Maybe I was right about the lurkers+DeathSauce theory. "Though you can't really say"? Got a secret, do we?

[Ectomancer]

I did a reread and I consider Blight pro-town. Moreover, I completely agree with his stance on AlSleet.

Which stance is that? The stance that AlSleet is a good D2 lynch, or that he isn't a good lynch? When saying you agree with Blight's stance, remember that you have to specify exactly which of his stances you agree with. BTW, if you say the "dont lynch AlSleet" stance, that one was and always has been mine.

I support Blight's suggestion to have the claimed Vig send no-kills henceforth. We can assume townie:scum ratio is 7:3, meaning he is twice as likely to hit a town than scum... does that mean nothing to you people?

Blight's suggestion? I dont think so. It was my suggestion that Blight later adopted.

If you are really afraid of the Vig/SK, then we have him no kill every night.

That essentially puts him in the position of vanilla town or SK. We keep him around until later and lynch a more sensible target. If he's Vig, he wont kill. If he's SK, he may try later, but an early kill would get him lynched, and we'll get rid of him before a late kill could help him. Dont forget, an SK is not just the town's burden to bear. They can cost the game for scum just as easily.

It's funny that you attribute the stance that you laid out to Blight, when in fact all of those ideas were mine. Now, seeing how what made you think Blight was town, wasnt Blight's stance at all, where is the part about Blight that makes you think he is town? Moreover, how is it that my ideas were plagiarized by Blight and you are perpetuating that by attributing those ideas to Blight as well?

I think your conclusions should be re-evaluated applying the origination of ideas and stances to the appropriate player. Blight wont look nearly as good when you realize the pro-town stances you listed were mine that he appropriated (and was called on).

[DeathSauce]

Why haven't we lynched PanzerJager yet?

[Off the Mark]

So, Kscope and Blight have a secret, which I think I understand.

And now Numeanor, Ecto, and Deathsauce have a secret which I have no fricking clue where that is coming from.

Secrets secrets are no fun, secrets secrets hurt someone.

One of these groups has got to be lying. I don't really know what to think at this point.

[DeathSauce]

I don't have secrets with anyone. I just said I think I know why Ecto made one particular post. And that to me it shows that he is a pro-town player.

[d3sisted]

Oh wow, scum vibes are a-tingling. Maybe I was right about the lurkers+DeathSauce theory. "Though you can't really say"? Got a secret, do we?

Fuck, I hate it when someone twists my words. Let me try to reword: "Based on the information given, I can't decide yet whether or not DeathSauce is scum. He seems to be giving off pro-town as well as scum vibes in his posts."

I did a reread and I consider Blight pro-town. Moreover, I completely agree with his stance on AlSleet.

Which stance is that? The stance that AlSleet is a good D2 lynch, or that he isn't a good lynch? When saying you agree with Blight's stance, remember that you have to specify exactly which of his stances you agree with. BTW, if you say the "dont lynch AlSleet" stance, that one was and always has been mine.

I listed the aspects of his stance right underneath that paragraph. It's the stance he took in 572. Not the stance on whether AlSleet should live, but the scumminess of AlSleet in general and how we should continue playing.

I support Blight's suggestion to have the claimed Vig send no-kills henceforth. We can assume townie:scum ratio is 7:3, meaning he is twice as likely to hit a town than scum... does that mean nothing to you people?

Blight's suggestion? I dont think so. It was my suggestion that Blight later adopted.

Negative. The only time you refer to a no-kill by AlSleet is in 575: "I suggest we continue the trend of letting AlSleet chose the target himself (or no kill) just as he would have if not forced to claim". In fact, in 458, you were still advocating that we direct AlSleet's NKs, and Blight has explained why that course of action is unfavourable.

If you are really afraid of the Vig/SK, then we have him no kill every night.

That essentially puts him in the position of vanilla town or SK. We keep him around until later and lynch a more sensible target. If he's Vig, he wont kill. If he's SK, he may try later, but an early kill would get him lynched, and we'll get rid of him before a late kill could help him. Dont forget, an SK is not just the town's burden to bear. They can cost the game for scum just as easily.

In the future, please include post numbers for reference. This quote is from post 584, Blight stated it 572.

It's funny that you attribute the stance that you laid out to Blight, when in fact all of those ideas were mine. Now, seeing how what made you think Blight was town, wasnt Blight's stance at all, where is the part about Blight that makes you think he is town? Moreover, how is it that my ideas were plagiarized by Blight and you are perpetuating that by attributing those ideas to Blight as well?

I think your conclusions should be re-evaluated applying the origination of ideas and stances to the appropriate player. Blight wont look nearly as good when you realize the pro-town stances you listed were mine that he appropriated (and was called on).

I've disproved you, and my case stands untouched. At this point I'm forced to ask myself, "Why is he trying to steal limelight from Blight?" I was under the impression that throughout D2 you've been opposing his ideas entirely. All of a sudden those very ideas were of your conception? That's not gonna fly with me.

This was a pretty conspicuous attempt at turning me against Blight, and I am now more suspicious of you than ever.

FoS: Ecto

[d3sisted]

I don't have secrets with anyone. I just said I think I know why Ecto made one particular post. And that to me it shows that he is a pro-town player.

You had better start talking. Ecto's gonna need a hell of a secret to offset the scum vibes he's been giving off.

[DeathSauce]

I think I'll wait until there is a chance Ecto will go down, unlike SOME players in this game...

[d3sisted]

Why haven't we lynched PanzerJager yet?

Though I'm incredibly against Panzer, the way you put this so blatantly draws my attention.


Ecto: Why isn't Numen the lynch for today?

I think I'll wait until there is a chance Ecto will go down, unlike SOME players in this game...

I'm tired of all these goddamned secrets in this thread. First AlSleet, then KScope, then Ecto and now you? I don't think so.

Here, I'll make this easier for you:

Vote: DeathSauce

It can either come out now, or never. Your call.

5: Deathsauce (d3sisted, Ectomancer, Panzerjager, HH, Kscope)

2: Panzerjager (Alsleet, Deathsauce)
2: numenorean7 (Blight, OTM)
1: blight (Numenorean7)
Not voting:
6 to lynch, 3 at deadline

[Shanba]

Vote Count of identicality to the one d3sisted posted but helps get Shanba's records in order

6 to lynch, 3 at deadline

5: Deathsauce

(Panzerjager, Honary Hitchiker, Kscope, Ectomancer, d3sisted)

2: Panzerjager

(Alsleet, Deathsauce)

2: Numenorean7

(blight, OTM)

1: blight

(Numenorean7)

[Off the Mark]

I'm voting Numeanor, not DeathSauce. DS, I think you should let us in on the secret if you want to live. I'm still not totally opposed to your lynch.

[Blight]

I feel comfortable with either an Ecto lynch or a Numenorean lynch.

Unvote, Vote: Numenorean

If you paid any attention, you would know Numenorean isn't the lynch. Quit being so damn scummy. The only reason you are being left alone is due to the as yet unverified word of K-Scope. I still hope K-Scope has more evidence on you than a "feeling".

I'm scummy because I've already named you and Numenorean as scum partners and could care less which one takes the fall first? Read my posts again. That's something you constantly fail to do. I've had my questions about Numenorean, and I stand by what I say. I don't care who out of the two of you gets lynched first. No one was voting for you, so I switched to Numenorean.

And no, apparently I haven't "paid any attention" because nowhere did I read that Numenorean wasn't today's lynch.

Sorry if it seems scummy that I don't feel comfortable jumping on the DS BW when I think you or Numenorean make better lynches.

[d3sisted]

I agree there are much better lynch choices than DS, but we need some fresh info to build upon.

[Ectomancer]

Here's my thing on AlSleet. I don't trust him. I really don't. It's not because his Vigilante claim reeked of desperation, and it's not because that on Day 2 there was only one kill. It's because, during day one, his push to get Shismatized lynched wasn't trying to do what's best for the town. He put Schis at L-2 when the votes started to stack up, and he wanted Schis gone "town or not". I honestly don't think he's vigilante. He's most likely either SK or scum.

As far as keeping him around to kill on the side of townies, I think that's an extremely bad idea. Calling his kills? That's even worse. He'll be doing the werewolves job for them. If they like who he'll target, they'll let it go. If not, they'll stop it.

To answer the question why AlSleet is still alive (assuming he's not scum). I think the most probable explanation is because the werewolves have a role-blocker that can control him. With the roleblocker blocking his role, only one night kill occurs. With only one night kill, AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2. The scum probably think it would be easy to get him hanged (again, this is assuming AlSleet isn't scum, himself).

As for as I'm concerned, even if AlSleet is a vigilante, keeping him around is pointless because he's pretty much useless. I guess we could keep him around, have him not call his kill, and see if there's two kills. If there isn't, it's pretty much confirmed that there's a mafia role-blocker or he's lying about being a vigilante. Again, that depends on whether people want to risk losing three townie's in a span of one day and one night.

Moving on.

There's his quote, and you are making QUITE a stretch to say that he is calling for AlSleet to no-kill every night.

In the very same message

he tosses out that we could ask him to no kill and see if there was 2 kills, he says that keeping AlSleet around is pretty much useless. (Remember the flip flopping? Yeah.) All he did in that sentence was say that he wanted him gone, but "I guess" we could keep him around to see if there is two kills or not if we tell him not to kill tonight. That's a far cry from "Lets keep him around and have him no kill every night".

I was the one that said explicitly that we could have AlSleet no kill every night, no caveat about whether there was 2 kills, or saying it was a setup to prove/disprove AlSleet's claim of Vig.

Secondly, his "stance" in 572 is nowhere close to your position you laid out recently. His "stance" didnt get close to yours until pages of argument.

Did you anywhere in your post say that AlSleet was a good lynch for today? I know he said that he was speaking in terms of the wolves in his "AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2" statement, but you cant say that about his follow up statement that "Keeping AlSleet around is pretty much useless". It took quite a pounding before he backed off dropping little lines like that. I also dont see where anyone can square that line:
"Keeping AlSleet around is pretty much useless"
with
"I haven't been calling AlSleet today's lynch."
and then later
"The only reason I didn't vote for AlSleet is because I think Ecto's scummier."

Whatever. If you cant see all the subtle (really not so subtle at all) pushes for an AlSleet lynch, followed by the admission that he would be voting AlSleet if it werent for me, how than can you say his position has been to keep AlSleet and have him no kill?
Additionally, since you are keeping tight watch on the chronology here, I thought you said Blight wanted to keep AlSleet to No Kill, because calling his kill is scummy. But then after that he is trying to call AlSleet's kill! He only apologizes after he is called out for doing what he says is scummy.

Now, once again, which of his multiple stances are you agreeing with? Sure, you said what you believe, but I think you will have a difficult time finding a quote on ANY stance taken by Blight that we cant also produce a statement by Blight saying or expousing the exact opposite.

Oh, and thank you for having me go back and dig through his post, because he is so scummy, the material keeps coming out. How about this one?

If there isn't, it's pretty much confirmed that there's a mafia role-blocker or he's lying about being a vigilante.

Oh really? Did you forget about a Doc? There is either a mafia roleblocker or he is lying?
Blight, you tipped your hand here or just demonstrated clearly that you are latching on to an idea and clinging there despite a lack of facts. It sounds to me like you are saying there is a mafia roleblocker and you know it, but how could you know it? Only an informed minority would know because guess what, we haven't seen any evidence of it that couldnt easily be explained away by a role that actually is a standard role for normal mini's. You should probably wait for more conclusive evidence to surface before you start confirming your partners role like that. That way you don't demonstrate knowledge that you should not have if you were town.

[Ectomancer]

@K-Scope, I haven't found you to be scummy, so Im completely baffled as to why you are supporting Blight's crap. As I said, I seriously hope you have more than a feeling.

Also, I want to know what everyone thinks about our former lurker role being replaced and suddenly attaching himself to Blight after K-Scope "confirmed" Blight as town in his opinion. And then he protests that I'm "trying to turn him against Blight."
Oh forgive me, don't want to get in between you and your attachment to the player that K-Scope has said is town. Please continue to ignore the contradictions in Blight's statements. You know why? If Blight is town, and K-Scope knows it and protected him, that means K-Scope is town too. Only thing is, K-Scope isn't vouching for you, and from his statements, he protected Blight

in spite

of his comments, not because of them. The facts you have to ignore and positions you have to take to make a case that Blight isn't scummy are the facts and positions that are going to bite you in the end.

[d3sisted]

A bunch of bullshit

Like I said above. I'm not referring to his opinions on whether AlSleet lives or not. Fact is, he was the first one to suggest the no-kills, and I found it a good idea. If you want credit for it that badly, fine, take it. Again, this in no way relates to Blight's statements on getting rid of AlSleet.

I will admit that he does a bit of a flip-flop on the subject of getting rid of AlSleet, but once again, I'm not talking about that at all. I did not even support his position to keep AlSleet and have him no-kill, I merely said I liked his suggestion on the no-kills.

Final point: I agreed with his stance that AlSleet fake-claimed. Nothing more. As you can see, he takes multiple stances upon which I agree with.

Ecto, you bring up valid points on Blight's inconsistencies. But right now, my case is on AlSleet and not Blight. I'll take a further look into Blight's posts if I find that he is indeed scummy. But as it stands, you have done nothing to assuage my suspicions of yourself, so hunting down Blight isn't very high on my priorities at the moment.

[d3sisted]

BTW, if you find Blight so scummy, then ffs get off DS and vote him.