Newbie 442 - Game Over

[MeMe]

Vote Count

:

Peter Venkman

(1):

cheeky-little-asian

White

(1):

Peter Venkman

Snix

(1):

White

Chromagnum

(1):

IH

LoudmouthLee

(1):

Chromagnum

IH

(1):

LoudmouthLee

not voting

(1):

Snix

Four to lynch[/quote]

[IH]

Actually I do have to agree somewhat with what LML said however it doesn't strike me as much as he makes it out to be.

One thing i've noticed about LML is that he comes on strong and doesn't work too well in shades of gray. It's more black and white for him. He's also logical and presents a nice case but could easily throw a wrench in the works and no one would be able to pick it out.

LML, i'm going to be cautious of you.

I'm slight more confident it was a joke and a random reason to vote. I'm unsure if I've played with LML before, but buddying up to town is first of all a horrible argument, mainly cause I'm not buddying up to one player.

Plus I do post this in every one of my newbie games.

The same to Peter, I would suggest before becoming so forthcoming with arguments, it is better to ask a question, and find out a players motives. Better reactions, and can sometimes be more telling.

I really don't like how you came off as joking with your racist comment, than when I joked back you attacked me for acting weird and making strange deductions. Your whole "I'd vote on you, but... that's putting somone at -2, and that is bad even though IH just said it isn't..." rubbed me the wrong way.

If you sincerely feel my behavior has been scummy I would encourage you to vote. If you are town, you shouldn't worry about posturing. The only tool you have to find scum is your vote, use it to the fullest. I find your hesitance confusing.

I would find the first comment enough for slightly better than a random vote

unvote, vote:White

the second part I would say would just suggest he is not reading (or just not reading long posts)

[Snix]

I really think that white isn't really scummy but just proud. I mean you wouldn't want people calling you a Honkey would you? And he made his no -2 decision before IH posted his spiel.

I think jumping on people early, when not everybody has posted real content is mildly suspicious, so

FOS:IH

.

Maybe we should calm down a bit..

[LoudmouthLee]

Actually I do have to agree somewhat with what LML said however it doesn't strike me as much as he makes it out to be.

One thing i've noticed about LML is that he comes on strong and doesn't work too well in shades of gray. It's more black and white for him. He's also logical and presents a nice case but could easily throw a wrench in the works and no one would be able to pick it out.

LML, i'm going to be cautious of you.

Oh really? You should be cautious of me if you're scum.

I do come on strong. I put people's backs to the wall. I made an opening day, first post vote.

You seem to be wanting to get the town to NOT believe a single word I say? Why is that? Are you afraid of the apparent case on you being formed?

I believe that you're trying to rid the town of me because you are afraid of my ability to corner scum.

Unvote, Vote: White

[LoudmouthLee]

Grrr.

Unvote

That makes 3.

Massive FoS: White

[Chromagnum]

Oh really? You should be cautious of me if you're scum.

I do come on strong. I put people's backs to the wall. I made an opening day, first post vote.

You seem to be wanting to get the town to NOT believe a single word I say? Why is that? Are you afraid of the apparent case on you being formed?

I believe that you're trying to rid the town of me because you are afraid of my ability to corner scum.

This entire post sounds scummy to me. Almost like posing as a "hero of the people" in my opinion. Keeping my vote on LML.

[White]

Wow geez guys.

Again LML, you are coming on realy strong. I read a different one of your games and you got hard on the case of another guy and he turned out to me town. Now i'd definintely suggest holding back and thinking of all possible perceptions of an actions before jumping on someone else's back.

Besides, you're an IC and it certainly looks to me that you're good at playing mafia due to your nice award. Now i've played your style before and dude, calm down with the "FREEDOM!!" -esque posts.

You get an idea and you run with it to the ends of the earth. I personally think you find me threatening because i'm calmer than you.

I don't NOT believe i'm in any way ridding the town of you because remeber, I didn't vote you. I simply said I was going to be cautious. Which is something I believe everyone should be of everyone.

Now LML, i'm not deliberately trying to get everyone to see you as a liar. That's so far off base. I feel like you want me to be scum. I am encouraging everyone to think about your posts before jumping on a bandwagon. Seriously LML, calm down and read what I say before you jump so such rash conclusions.


[quote=Peter]I really don't like how you came off as joking with your racist comment, than when I joked back you attacked me for acting weird and making strange deductions. Your whole "I'd vote on you, but... that's putting somone at -2, and that is bad even though IH just said it isn't..." rubbed me the wrong way. [/quote]

I never attacked you. I made my own joke. If you watch Family Guy you'll see that the monkey finger thing is only used in jokes. That's not an attack, it's a joke that I now see was poorly placed. So in that respect, i'm sorry for the bad joke.

I do however think you are making strange deductions but that idea has dissipated for the time being. Currently i'm most suspicious of IH and LML for seeming to jump on me. Primarily though of LML because he seems to be bandwagoning and voting me for a hardly flimsy argument ("I think you're scum because you're being cautious of me!!!"). IMO that is kinda a weak reason to put someone at -1 and then realizing that risk to me, a "Massive FoS".

LML, you've got 1 vote on you currently. I'm going to make it two because out of all the people that have talked and given stuff to work with you're the one that's taken up a flag against me the hardest and I personally don't trust your judgement because you jumped to conclusions about me and should've read what I said. I said clearly that I was going to be cautious. If being cautious is a reason to vote for someone then by golly we're screwed.

Vote: LoudmouthLee

[LoudmouthLee]

This entire post sounds scummy to me. Almost like posing as a "hero of the people" in my opinion. Keeping my vote on LML.

I would recommend, my friend, looking at my past games and seeing the way I post. You will see that this is ALWAYS my tone.

Again LML, you are coming on realy strong. I read a different one of your games and you got hard on the case of another guy and he turned out to me town. Now i'd definintely suggest holding back and thinking of all possible perceptions of an actions before jumping on someone else's back.

Yet you just voted me at the end of your post, huh? That's called

hypocritical.

Besides, you're an IC and it certainly looks to me that you're good at playing mafia due to your nice award. Now i've played your style before and dude, calm down with the "FREEDOM!!" -esque posts.

I haven't told you how to play mafia, I don't expect you to tell me. I won the Paragon of Mafia Hunters (best Pro-Town player) in 2005, and Mafia Performance in 2006. Either witch way, I will not change the way I play because you tell me to.

LML, you've got 1 vote on you currently. I'm going to make it two because out of all the people that have talked and given stuff to work with you're the one that's taken up a flag against me the hardest and I personally don't trust your judgement because you jumped to conclusions about me and should've read what I said. I said clearly that I was going to be cautious. If being cautious is a reason to vote for someone then by golly we're screwed.

That is so OMGUS. There are so many reasons to vote you. I held off because it put you at Lynch minus one. I have documented said reasons in this post. I don't know where you've come from. Let me explain something to you. I make cases. If someone makes a better case than the one I make, I move my vote. It's how the game is played.

Vote: White

[White]

[quote=LML]Yet you just voted me at the end of your post, huh? That's called hypocritical.[/quote]

Nope, again you're making a poor judgement call. That's called weighing my options and choosing the best one. The best one is to think about your actions, consider alternatives, the

make a choice

. Thinking about eveyrone does you no good at all unless you actually do something about it. I considered not doing anything. I didn't like it because your actions and rash judgement calls are worthy of atleast a FoS. I chose not to FoS you because you have pulled some crap and practically called me out as mafia in all forms other than a direct sentence saying so. That left me with the only choice left as a vote, which I did.

[quote=LML]I haven't told you how to play mafia, I don't expect you to tell me. I won the Paragon of Mafia Hunters (best Pro-Town player) in 2005, and Mafia Performance in 2006. Either witch way, I will not change the way I play because you tell me to. [/b]

Well sometimes expectations are broken. Tell me you've never played a game where someone you expected to be town turned out to be mafia. I'm not perfect but neither are you. Just because i'm new to the game of mafia doesn't mean i'm new to life or logic. Sometimes you'll learn the most bizarre things in the most obvious of places. Are you saying you can't learn anything or a newbie can't teach you anything?

[quote=LML]That is so OMGUS. There are so many reasons to vote you. I held off because it put you at Lynch minus one. I have documented said reasons in this post. I don't know where you've come from. Let me explain something to you. I make cases. If someone makes a better case than the one I make, I move my vote. It's how the game is played.[/quote]

Um...I don't know what OMGUS is other than Office of Military Gov't, United States. Please help me there and define OMGUS.

In your 7 lines of post I see only 1 reason which is hypocrisy. I think however I showed how I wasn't hypocritical. Please LML, show me where i've erred so I can correct my mistakes in future games. As an IC, help me here.

Show me where i've gone wrong LML! Putting someone at -1 this soon in the game really strikes me as scummy. If I do end up dying you all will see i'm just as innocent as another 'nilla townie. I would suggest lynching LML and seeing how he turns up because i'm innocent. I decided to RC because i'm at -1 and would like to play this game and search out the mafia members, one of which I think is LML.

[White]

Yet you just voted me at the end of your post, huh? That's called hypocritical.

Nope, again you're making a poor judgement call. That's called weighing my options and choosing the best one. The best one is to think about your actions, consider alternatives, the

make a choice

. Thinking about eveyrone does you no good at all unless you actually do something about it. I considered not doing anything. I didn't like it because your actions and rash judgement calls are worthy of atleast a FoS. I chose not to FoS you because you have pulled some crap and practically called me out as mafia in all forms other than a direct sentence saying so. That left me with the only choice left as a vote, which I did.

I haven't told you how to play mafia, I don't expect you to tell me. I won the Paragon of Mafia Hunters (best Pro-Town player) in 2005, and Mafia Performance in 2006. Either witch way, I will not change the way I play because you tell me to.

Well sometimes expectations are broken. Tell me you've never played a game where someone you expected to be town turned out to be mafia. I'm not perfect but neither are you. Just because i'm new to the game of mafia doesn't mean i'm new to life or logic. Sometimes you'll learn the most bizarre things in the most obvious of places. Are you saying you can't learn anything or a newbie can't teach you anything?

That is so OMGUS. There are so many reasons to vote you. I held off because it put you at Lynch minus one. I have documented said reasons in this post. I don't know where you've come from. Let me explain something to you. I make cases. If someone makes a better case than the one I make, I move my vote. It's how the game is played.

Um...I don't know what OMGUS is other than Office of Military Gov't, United States. Please help me there and define OMGUS.

In your 7 lines of post I see only 1 reason which is hypocrisy. I think however I showed how I wasn't hypocritical. Please LML, show me where i've erred so I can correct my mistakes in future games. As an IC, help me here.

Show me where i've gone wrong LML! Putting someone at -1 this soon in the game really strikes me as scummy. If I do end up dying you all will see i'm just as innocent as another 'nilla townie. I would suggest lynching LML and seeing how he turns up because i'm innocent. I decided to RC because i'm at -1 and would like to play this game and search out the mafia members, one of which I think is LML.

Sorry, had to fix tags.

[Peter Venkman]

Unvote

I would suggest lynching LML and seeing how he turns up because i'm innocent.

Please understand that from the perspective of the rest of the town this is a terrible argument. You could both be town, and lynching both of you would end this game. LML is not a candidate for lynch

just

because he attacks you, and lynching LML gives us

no information about your role

.

OMGUS = "Oh My God, YOU SUCK!"

Often times, when a player is being attacked he immediately retaliates on the poster making the accusations. In the future, your defense will sound more sincere if you address the specific points and ignore the personality of the person making them.

-Peter

[Chromagnum]

I would suggest lynching LML and seeing how he turns up because i'm innocent. I decided to RC because i'm at -1 and would like to play this game and search out the mafia members, one of which I think is LML.

Okay... through all the reasoning I carried along with you... but you're last comment has me completely on edge with you.

Did you really mean suggesting the town lynch LML??? At this early stage... where most haven't had the opportunity to really dig into the weeds... that's about as scummy a tell as you can get.

unvote

FoS: White

Oh... OMGUS = Oh My God U Suck (the Wiki is a great reference tool).

[White]

I see. Then I guess I won't be able to live that one down this game. Good to know in the future. Thanks for the tips.

Heh, well as newbie i'm bound to mess up. You're right, don't lynch him after i'm gone. Just, be wary. I'd hate for him to bring another innocent down and win the game if he's mafia. If he's not mafia then gee, something's wrong in my mind.

Ok well, i'm very suspicious of LML, IH and Peter.

Still, i'd like to see what points he's refering to that make me seem so completely and incredibly scummy. I know that my one thing suggesting lynching him after me was scummy and I see that and know that's likely to kill me. However I think i've dealt with any other issues.

Peter, could you perhaps take me off the chopping block so I can deal with the charges yet to be brought up?

[White]

Ah goodness, i'm having some trouble and need to get some sleep. Sorry,

thank you Peter

for unvoting me.

I tried looking at wiki and even googled it but I didn't get anything other than the office of military gov't, US.

[Peter Venkman]

@White>

I unvoted you because this is an information game. Even in the best case scenario that you are scum, your lynch doesn't put us in a good position for Day 2. I require a few things before I'm willing to be part of a player's lynch:

(in order of importance)
1) Several solid logical arguments that a player is scum.
2) Every player in the game has offered his opinion of the lynch.
3) The player role claims.
4) Consider any counter-claims

As you can see, you barely even qualify for point one.

----

So, when I put my "serious" vote on you I wasn't voting to lynch. What was I doing? Voting to

pressure

. I believe that the vote is the only tool town has to find scum. A vote says to another player "You are now required to defend yourself against the points I have made." Usually, the other player responds in a way that alleviates or confirms the initial suspicion.

In your case, you confirmed my initial suspicion. You never did address why my two posts prior to your "weird and strange" accusations were in fact weird and strange. I felt it odd that you were attacking the quality my character based on nothing.

You are correct that these are not traditional "attacks" in the mafia-scum sense. You did not accuse me of being scum. However, you did attack me in a subtle way that was meant to undermine the validity of my posts. By reinforcing "Peter Venkman makes strange and weird arguments" you attempt to discredit me.

I see no reason why a

town

player would attempt to discredit another player based on so little. Perhaps you should now explain.

-Peter

[White]

I'll be glad to:

It is painfully obvious that White is scum.

I see now and slightly before, that this was a joke. It really isnt' obvious to me where such a deduction would be made, so that made me think you somehow saw something in me or...I don't really know. I was thinking there was a catalyst for such a belief and I wasn't aware of it which made me suspicious. I see now that it must have been an irrelevant joke.

Haha, Is it okay if I call you honkey the rest of the game?

This I hit me blindside. You seemed to add nothing of value to the conversation and weren't direct on who you were asking the question to. I didn't see the relevence nor did I see where you would think anyone would

want

to be called "Honkey". But I believed you had a reason (that I didn't know) which again led me to think you knew something or saw something in someone that I was missing. It wasn't obvious to me so I called it strange and weird.

When I said you made a racist comment, I was playing off of Snix's joke that you assumed I was Mafia because my skin was white because my name was White(right? Still slightly confused on it). But if you'll notice there is a link, he says you're racist and I say the same. However calling someone Honkey isn't related to racism (that i'm aware, I haven't googled or anything, just going off my previous knowledge).

I see no reason why a

town

player would attempt to discredit another player based on so little. Perhaps you should now explain.

Well, I thought at the time you were scum. So I was trying to discredit your views as I expected some form of retaliation and I wanted to rest of the town to not believe whatever you said because I assumed it would all be lies if pertaining to your identity.

1) Several solid logical arguments that a player is scum.

I have yet to see any solid arguments posed against myself, but I would really like to hear what LML has to say as he seems to be the biggest candidate for my lynching.

2) Every player in the game has offered his opinion of the lynch.

This one I think i'm pretty well set in. I believe here that most people have had a chance to say something if they haven't indeed said anything yet.

3) The player role claims.

This I have done. However I think if I were scum I would have RCed Doc as that's the easiest to for scum to RC. Not to mention RCing a townie isn't really too beneficial for scum. It does align them with the town but doesn't give them too much arguing room compared with doc or cop. Not to mention RCing Doc this early this early in the game is very strategic for the mafia because the real Doc would be concerned about counter-claiming because after 1 scum is dead, the doc dies.

4) Consider any counter-claims

I don't think this one is too applicable to my situation.

You did (previously) mention that you find my hesitance confusing. I try very hard to not do or say something without thinking it through and giving it some time. I didn't want to vote for you at first because that would put you at -2 and I thought that wasn't right. In other games i've read the goal was to stay away from bandwagoning early on and many a newbie has been lynching for bandwagoning. I didn't vote for you after Snix retracted because I was then more suspicious of LML and wanted to keep my vote open. That sounds silly now because I could just unvote then vote but that's what I was thinking. Plus you were seeming less scummy as time went on and it seemed I was clawing the ground for anything.

I didn't FOS anyone because I thought it was too early for someone to FOS rather than just vote (page 1). But I didn't see enough issues with LML to vote yet. That has changed though as time has gone on.

I'd like to see what IH has to say on what's been said so far and i'd like to see if he keeps his vote on me.

[Peter Venkman]

It really isnt' obvious to me where such a deduction would be made, so

that made me think you somehow saw something in me

or...I don't really know.

I was thinking there was a catalyst for such a belief

and I wasn't aware of it which made me suspicious. I see now that it must have been an irrelevant joke.

Is this your first game? It is pretty common knowledge that Day One starts off with random votes. Why you came to the conclusion that I have a deeper reason is perplexing.

Haha, Is it okay if I call you honkey the rest of the game?

This I hit me blindside. You seemed to add nothing of value to the conversation and weren't direct on who you were asking the question to. I didn't see the relevence nor did I see where you would think anyone would

want

to be called "Honkey".

But I believed you had a reason (that I didn't know) which again led me to think you knew something or saw something

Again... why would you arrive at that conclusion? At that point I'd contributed a random vote and a poorly received joke. Your defensiveness doesn't make sense.

When I said you made a racist comment, I was playing off of Snix's joke that you assumed I was Mafia because my skin was white because my name was White(right? Still slightly confused on it).

This... is... an amazing leap in logic.

Well,

I was trying to discredit your views

as I expected some form of retaliation and I wanted to rest of the town to not believe whatever you said

In a single word: WOW!.

Less than a page into Day One you assume I have determine your role by my amazing powers of deduction. Faced with such a powerful opponent you feel you must discredit me.

That is the greatest compliment anyone has ever given me. Thank you.

-Peter

[Snix]

My Thoughts: (because I know you're all dieing to hear them)

IH: You come off as too helpful, I don't know how to explain it you just do. I know it's part of your IC duties but whenever I see anybody that likes to ooze advice... it just seems off. You also seem to have gotten it into your head that White is scum from what? A few jokey comments at the beginning of the game? So what are your real motivations?

Vote:IH

Maybe this will draw a response, maybe it wont.

[White]

Is this your first game? It is pretty common knowledge that Day One starts off with random votes. Why you came to the conclusion that I have a deeper reason is perplexing.

First game on here, not my first game ever. I wasn't commenting on your vote. I was talking about your joke about it being obvious that I was mafia.

Again... why would you arrive at that conclusion? At that point I'd contributed a random vote and a poorly received joke. Your defensiveness doesn't make sense.

Well, other than the fact that i'm a naturally defensive person. I understand if that's not buyable so let's see. I personally don't believe in coincidences. Which means you didn't just ask if I wanted to be called "Honkey" for no reason, so if there's a reason, what is it?

This... is... an amazing leap in logic.

Isn't it? But that's the only thing I can think of that explains why you might think of me as obviously mafia and it be a racist thing. I didn't make the joke, I did however play off of it.

Less than a page into Day One you assume I have determine your role by my amazing powers of deduction. Faced with such a powerful opponent you feel you must discredit me.

My role isn't really a complicated one.....um...*shrug* it's not too rare either....
Well, I thought you were mafia and so yes, you are powerful. Besides, I have no idea what powers of persuasion you possess. It only makes sense in my mind to try and discredit your biggest opponent which for me in this game (and every game really) is the mafia. If you are mafia then naturally i'm going to try and do everything I can to get you exposed and killed. I thought you were mafia.

I would personally like to see some more input from Snix, Chroma and IH. Snix seems pretty good for the most part though as he seems to be keeping up. Chroma needs to participate more but I think I read a game on here when he was the same way, very little interaction but seemed to keep up. Not as a judgement call but I think in that game he turned up mafia and was a lurkermafia. But don't quote me on that as it may very well be wrong. IH just seems to be lazy or inhibited by something because his participation is very very limited.

[Chromagnum]

I would personally like to see some more input from Snix, Chroma and IH. Snix seems pretty good for the most part though as he seems to be keeping up.

Chroma needs to participate more but I think I read a game on here when he was the same way, very little interaction but seemed to keep up. Not as a judgement call but I think in that game he turned up mafia and was a lurkermafia. But don't quote me on that as it may very well be wrong.

IH just seems to be lazy or inhibited by something because his participation is very very limited.

Okay... I've stated my current position and I think I've been clear why. Regarding input... you're whole banter is just wasting my time and I'm not sure how much more value you're adding to this than the posts I've made.

That being said... you obviously are making statements without doing any homework. This is my second game. The only other game I've been in here just ended a few days back... and I was a Townie. So your statement about me being a lurking mafia are completely unfounded.

Enough said... you bother me and if it wasn't for White's completely scummy comment earlier... and for your complete lack of useful content... I'd be looking closer at you.[/b]

[White]

Pardon me!

Gee wiz! I've dealt with issues pertaining to my innocence. Now I know I can at times be long winded. But that's just me. Don't attack me for being who I am dude. Besides, I said, and I QUOTE, "But don't quote me on that as it may very well be wrong." EXPLICITELY for the purpose of detering any such extravagant accusations. I didn't know for sure and STATED THAT.

Going off of your few posts this one seems way off tempo so i'm going to put a FoS on you.

FoS: Chromagnum

[Snix]

Wow Chormagnum, was that really useful? I mean it was mostly just you spewing hate..

[IH]

I really think that white isn't really scummy but just proud. I mean you wouldn't want people calling you a Honkey would you? And he made his no -2 decision before IH posted his spiel.

I think jumping on people early, when not everybody has posted real content is mildly suspicious, so FOS:IH.

Maybe we should calm down a bit..

1.No he didn't I posted before he made is -2 decision.
2.Way to try to and stop conversation.

Newbies please answer this question. Do you think being agrressive is scummy?

You get an idea and you run with it to the ends of the earth. I personally think you find me threatening because i'm calmer than you.

Doubt it.

I doubt he finds you threatening.

do however think you are making strange deductions but that idea has dissipated for the time being. Currently i'm most suspicious of IH and LML for seeming to jump on me. Primarily though of LML because he seems to be bandwagoning and voting me for a hardly flimsy argument ("I think you're scum because you're being cautious of me!!!"). IMO that is kinda a weak reason to put someone at -1 and then realizing that risk to me, a "Massive FoS".

1.Interesting you find the ICs scummiest
2.Would you refute my point on you then?
3.How much do you think LML actually believes what he is saying, especially since he didn't leave you at lynch -1?

White to quote someone you need Quotations around the name.
you also need to end it with [/quote]

Nope, again you're making a poor judgement call. That's called weighing my options and choosing the best one. The best one is to think about your actions, consider alternatives, the make a choice. Thinking about eveyrone does you no good at all unless you actually do something about it. I considered not doing anything. I didn't like it because your actions and rash judgement calls are worthy of atleast a FoS. I chose not to FoS you because you have pulled some crap and practically called me out as mafia in all forms other than a direct sentence saying so. That left me with the only choice left as a vote, which I did.

In other words you omgus voted him. You voted him because he attacked you, which is not a valid argument,.

Well sometimes expectations are broken. Tell me you've never played a game where someone you expected to be town turned out to be mafia. I'm not perfect but neither are you. Just because i'm new to the game of mafia doesn't mean i'm new to life or logic. Sometimes you'll learn the most bizarre things in the most obvious of places. Are you saying you can't learn anything or a newbie can't teach you anything?

I find this slightly pointless, and just trying to shoot LML down. Granted LML was bragging a bit, but I mean, I don't think he was talking down to you. I think he was scoffing you for suggesting his play is wrong.

Okay... through all the reasoning I carried along with you... but you're last comment has me completely on edge with you.

Did you really mean suggesting the town lynch LML??? At this early stage... where most haven't had the opportunity to really dig into the weeds... that's about as scummy a tell as you can get.

unvote
FoS: White

Oh... OMGUS = Oh My God U Suck (the Wiki is a great reference tool).

FoS:Chromagnum

So.... if you trule believed this statement you wouldn't have unvoted LML, as he stated the same thing about white, signifying it with lynch minus one.

Ah goodness, i'm having some trouble and need to get some sleep. Sorry, thank you Peter for unvoting me.

I tried looking at wiki and even googled it but I didn't get anything other than the office of military gov't, US.

not Wikipedia, the Mafia Wiki

IH: You come off as too helpful, I don't know how to explain it you just do. I know it's part of your IC duties but whenever I see anybody that likes to ooze advice... it just seems off. You also seem to have gotten it into your head that White is scum from what? A few jokey comments at the beginning of the game? So what are your real motivations?

Are you saying I am Too Townie?

My role isn't really a complicated one.....um...*shrug* it's not too rare either....
Well, I thought you were mafia and so yes, you are powerful. Besides, I have no idea what powers of persuasion you possess. It only makes sense in my mind to try and discredit your biggest opponent which for me in this game (and every game really) is the mafia. If you are mafia then naturally i'm going to try and do everything I can to get you exposed and killed. I thought you were mafia.

No. If you are town this is the wrong mindset. You never want to discredit someone for invalid reasons. You want to attack their arguments, refute their arguments, but not just attack the player themselves.

Guys some of you criticize me for not 'contributing" but I only get around 1 time to respond, and thats after work, at 5:00. I am working around real life guys. I am not "lazy" I am not "inhibited" but I do have "a life".

[Snix]

Are you saying I am Too Townie?

No, it just seems that you're trying to hard to be helpful, maybe. I'm very skeptical of people being nice.

[White]

Newbies please answer this question. Do you think being agrressive is scummy?

Well you as an IC should know there's no blanket answer for so broad a question. I personally feel however that it depends on the individual. If you're asking for how I feel about you and LML, yes I do feel there is some scumminess there. There is a level of agression that is indeed scummy. I think that level is different depending on the person and you've got to feel out the person before you make a judgement call.

1.Interesting you find the ICs scummiest

Well IH, first off this dismisses completely the possibility of both IC's being scum. It's entirely possible even though not probable. Do you deny that both IC's can be scum? I think I read someone there's a 30-ish percent chance of it being just that. But again, dont' take my word because my memory is very selective.

2.Would you refute my point on you then?

In the above 5 lines of your post I found it very difficult to find this point that you mention. Please restate it for me and i'll be glad to refute.

3.How much do you think LML actually believes what he is saying, especially since he didn't leave you at lynch -1?

Well, I think he believes atleast some of what he's saying because not only is he acting on it but he is also seemingly indignant when confronted which suggests a deep seated belief in what he's saying. But remember, i'm not him so I don't know for sure, these are only my thoughts on the matter.

Thank you IH, I did actually (believe it or not) find out how to quote properly as you'll see in my future posts.

In other words you omgus voted him. You voted him because he attacked you, which is not a valid argument.

I can see where you would feel this way because you only read the part of me saying he practically called me mafia. However if you looked alittle harder you would have seen me mention crap in the same sentence. I simply stated it as crap because didn't want to go into a post by post analysis of this crap.

I find this slightly pointless, and just trying to shoot LML down. Granted LML was bragging a bit, but I mean, I don't think he was talking down to you. I think he was scoffing you for suggesting his play is wrong.

I am sorry you feel that way. I did not suggest he played wrong, I suggested simply that anyone can learn anything at all from anywhere. That's not rude but rather informative for those that have forgotten. For you to point out that you feel this is pointless is strange to me though, if you just felt it was so pointless why did you feel the need to comment on it? Why not just ignore it as White's longwinded fluff?

not Wikipedia, the Mafia Wiki.................No. If you are town this is the wrong mindset. You never want to discredit someone for invalid reasons. You want to attack their arguments, refute their arguments, but not just attack the player themselves.

Where can I find this mafia wiki?

Well, I guess I don't understand. If you discredit someone, then the town won't take them seriously and if they're mafia they are powerless...isn't that the goal? I know that it's really effective. What's wrong with refuting their arguments and discrediting them as a whole?

Guys some of you criticize me for not 'contributing" but I only get around 1 time to respond, and thats after work, at 5:00. I am working around real life guys. I am not "lazy" I am not "inhibited" but I do have "a life".

Technically you are inhibited by work but I was just wanting to know the particular circumstances of my fellow players. You gave a perfectly valid reason and i'm happy. I wasn't trying to criticize you at all and i'm sorry for helping you to think that.

IH, overall your post strikes me as very confrontational and quite anti-White. You said yourself to refute the arguments but then you make a post that has an unkind overtone to it.

I'd also like to know

why

you are voting for me because you have yet to tell me and i'd like to know so I can get to refuting.