Mini 1694 -- Zodiac Mafia II (Game Over)

[Tammy]

...I did that. I read the rules, thought I had it, read what was going on Wednesday night, was thoroughly confused, then read it again and slept on it. Thought I understood it better yesterday, and now think I understand it completely, so if someone can tell me if I actually have it right now, that would be grand.

I do not have ADD, but I do not understand rules all that well until I see the game in motion.

[Tammy]

ebwop - Wednesday should be Tuesday.

[elusive]

i'm probably over-analysing things but
@elusive what kind of risk were you thinking about?

Well to be more clear, what it seems like is that Nacho stated that the scum could publicly declare a daykill and then via PM change it but the Mod then clarified that it wasn't true so I asked him why he he made up rules (or why he didn't check the prior game he was in before spreading disinformation).

It's a closed setup so nothing about town roles is known, I believe? So scum have to publicly daykill if they roll this ability - however the randomization of the daykill meant that they might hit a town PR or might kill someone super useful to town in terms of hunting. That's the risk over the random kill vs. town deciding who the scummiest player is and having everyone target that person. Does that make sense now?

I would probably meta a player a bit before making assumptions about their playstyle. Mine's is different from the supposed norm - have a question click on the Wiki, look through some games and then come back.

Tammy also pings me as a bit off, I have to check her last game but she seems to be hesitant in this to engage in the game and there are certain players for whom that is a scum tell.

Tammy, what do you not understand about the setup that isn't closed\unknown? I've never been good at setup spec but it seems like if you're following discussion we're all trying to understand it and making mistakes along the way some of which have been addressed by the mod.

Farside does scare me because of our last game where she was so calm and collected as scum but I'm the same way as scum so I'm waiting and seeing with what she does as the game progresses.

[Tammy]

What didn't you like about my opening far side?

Also I think I understand now. I thought the scum team decided which role we got from the horoscope, but far side getting the alternate empowered was completely random as was the getting the unfortunate in the first place, right? Please let me know if Ii've got things right now so I can stop worrying about the mechanics and actually read the game

Do I have this right now?

Elusive - I'm not hesitant to get in the game. At the moment, I'm more interested in making sure I understand the setup/what's been going on so that I can read the first pages and go from here. I'm rarely very good in the first pages of a game in real time. Often times I tend to just troll my way through the first pages of a game or if there's a mechanic/setup thing I don't understand I try to figure out that.

[farside22]

...I did that. I read the rules, thought I had it, read what was going on Wednesday night, was thoroughly confused, then read it again and slept on it. Thought I understood it better yesterday, and now think I understand it completely, so if someone can tell me if I actually have it right now, that would be grand.

I do not have ADD, but I do not understand rules all that well until I see the game in motion.

What exactly are you confused about?

[farside22]

What didn't you like about my opening far side?

Also I think I understand now. I thought the scum team decided which role we got from the horoscope, but far side getting the alternate empowered was completely random as was the getting the unfortunate in the first place, right? Please let me know if Ii've got things right now so I can stop worrying about the mechanics and actually read the game

Do I have this right now?

Elusive - I'm not hesitant to get in the game. At the moment, I'm more interested in making sure I understand the setup/what's been going on so that I can read the first pages and go from here. I'm rarely very good in the first pages of a game in real time. Often times I tend to just troll my way through the first pages of a game or if there's a mechanic/setup thing I don't understand I try to figure out that.

The fortune and misfortune and who gets it is random.
I recieved misfortune. I recieved the empowerment of opposite alignment which gave the scum team the opportunity to pick something from the fortune part.

[Tammy]

Was it also random that you got the empowerment of opposite alignment? That was the last thing that was tripping me up until it dawned on me that that was also probably random.

[elusive]

I'm fine with people making fun of and or poking at adhd but its actually quite stressful to have or function with so that's probably not a reason to scumread someone. It's also not always the lack of focus, sometimes its the inability to do anything but hyperfocus.

Tammy, I'll check out a game and see if that matches up. My day one is pretty slow to start and more fluff based as as well so I do understand that. I think Farside's last post should clear up any remaining major concerns about setup.

[farside22]

Was it also random that you got the empowerment of opposite alignment? That was the last thing that was tripping me up until it dawned on me that that was also probably random.

Yes

[farside22]

By the way I wasn't making fun of adhd. My son has it.

[Tammy]

So being a libra of unfortunate horoscope meant scum got to pick from the fortunate horoscope.

I now see the source of my confusion.

[Tammy]

The only thing I can think of is believing that I am trying to get massive cred, or a mislynch on far by manipulating the daykill cancel, but I think such a chain of thought would only come to the forefront of one's mind if there was preexisting bias against me. Also, the daykill cancelling thing sounds like something pretty much only the people in the last Zodiac would know about so I don't see how it would be assumed that I knew about it.

Oh, actually, it could also be because of my apparent certainty that scum have the dayvig. Well guess what, I just so happen to have read the thread, and I agree completely with the notion that it only makes sense for that to be the case. Scum choosing any other ability in a game of what I assume is entirely vanilla would be simply stupid.

This was what I didn't like from him. Now that I've read through again it doesn't bother me as much. I thought that he was preemptivelt defending himself for foresight when it was clear in the thread that multiple people understood what was going on.

I don't feel great about ri, but my earlier intent to come after him for that is lessened somewhat.

[startfromtheheart]

Waiting for mod to come in and acknowledge a daykill or lack of one

[startfromtheheart]

Cover your ears
Assuage your fears
The time is nears
My old peers

[Tammy]

Waiting for the mod will take ages, as I believe they're barely ever on. It'd be much quicker to just target different players.

Daykill: Metal Sonic

Yeah, I see what you mean although we'll still have to wait on the Mod. I just hate the risk of killing a town player obviously.

I know other people mentioned it, but your explanation for waiting is odd with the hating the risk of killing a town player. You agreed with the popcorn plan, which would be killing a town player if scum has the day kill. It would make more sense if your concern was catching the daykiller which is what I thought you were going for and why I said it wouldn't matter if we didn't have overlaps.

[farside22]

Okay I feel better about tammy

[Tammy]

so... if nothing happens, does that mean scum didn't pick the day kill?

(oh now you guys know i didn't get the day kill too lol)

The stuff in parentheses is bugging me for some reason. Can't put my finger on it though.

[Tammy]

Early townish reads of varying degrees on Nacho, far side, lane, and kayp.

I think startfromtheheart concerns me the most, but I'm going to wait for the daykill confirmation.

It also just occurred to me that they might not have taken the other alignment empowered on the first go round to avoid something like this if they thought they might have a chance to take it again. This seems a bit silly though, and potentially wrong if there are no redos (I just looked and I didn't see a one-time only clause, so if I missed it never mind on all of this.) However, if there is no day kill, then that might help in narrowing the scum down.

[elusive]

Waiting for the mod will take ages, as I believe they're barely ever on. It'd be much quicker to just target different players.

Daykill: Metal Sonic

Yeah, I see what you mean although

we'll still have to wait on the Mod

. I just hate the risk of killing a town player obviously.

I know other people mentioned it, but your explanation for waiting is odd with the hating the risk of killing a town player. You agreed with the popcorn plan, which would be killing a town player if scum has the day kill. It would make more sense if your concern was catching the daykiller which is what I thought you were going for and why I said it wouldn't matter if we didn't have overlaps.

The plan that I suggested which people said would take too long because we'd have to wait on the mod to confirm the daykill, well with the popcorn plan we still have to wait for the mod to confirm the daykill. I was more concerned with the popcorn more likely to hit town (and scum to force a "random" daykill on a strong player if they have it), be uncontrolled and usually in other games in situations where town is trying to direct a vig or sk, it makes more sense to focus on the scummiest player.

So yeah, I think I've explained my reasoning as well as I can.

[Tammy]

Oh are you saying your plan was for each of us to target the same person and then see who had the daykill that way?

[elusive]

Ok, now I get what Ricastle meant by "popcorn" the daykill...although being clear usually helps:

daykill: Marquis

It makes sense although I would say it would probably be best for town to choose a specific player (the scummiest or lurkiest bastard) and have players target one players and then wait to see if anything happens, then the next player target that scummy lil monkey, etc.

Yes?

I'm not sure why Ricastle is being read as scummy tho so explanamations.

Farside, I actually am a Leo although some cusp thing is in Libra. I get along with Leo women and Libra guys\girls (for the most part there's always that one person who was switched at birth)

[Mainez]

i'm probably over-analysing things but
@elusive what kind of risk were you thinking about?

Well to be more clear, what it seems like is that Nacho stated that the scum could publicly declare a daykill and then via PM change it but the Mod then clarified that it wasn't true so I asked him why he he made up rules (or why he didn't check the prior game he was in before spreading disinformation).

It's a closed setup so nothing about town roles is known, I believe? So scum have to publicly daykill if they roll this ability - however the randomization of the daykill meant that they might hit a town PR or might kill someone super useful to town in terms of hunting. That's the risk over the random kill vs. town deciding who the scummiest player is and having everyone target that person. Does that make sense now?

but at this stage, only i or scum have the possibility of having the daykill and if scum did have the daykill then they wouldn't really care about who they target, in fact, they would wanna target the player that is most likely to be a PR or some useful player, as you said.

[lane0168]

Z

odiac

M

afia

II

The Sun rises. The Sun sets. The Moon appears. The Moon disappears. We interact, discuss and love all the same. What is free will? What is fate? What do we ask ourselves when we wake up in the morning?

---

Player List

• Aronis
  lane0168
  Marquis
  Tammy
  elusive
  Ricastle
  farside22
  Mainez
  KayP
  Nachomamma8
  Metal Sonic
  startfromtheheart

Dead Players

Spoiler:

Important Links

• Original Game
  D1 Start

Current Deadline:

(expired on 2015-07-14 18:05:00)

Game Status:

D1

@elusive... not a big fan of scum reads or answering questions or acknowledging pressure? That's cool.

Farside has this way too easy right now. I'm sorry far. I'm with you. But what if you lied?

[lane0168]

Ummm that's not what I tried to quote

[lane0168]

@elusive... not a big fan of scum reads or answering questions or acknowledging pressure? That's cool.

Farside has this way too easy right now. I'm sorry far. I'm with you. But what if you lied?