Mini 460 - Werewolves! Game over.

[Off the Mark]

You think Al is the SK and you vote for me? Forgive me if that seems bizarre.

The key word there is "think". If I knew he was the SK for sure, I'd be voting for him. But at this point, I think letting him take one more shot is good for the town.

[DeathSauce]

Wow, you attack me for "mis-using" your quotes, but then completely miscategorize my suspicions as OMGUS. I have repeatedly said K-Scope is at the top of my suspicion list and given the reasons why. Look at his vote for schismatized, the reasons for it, and then go back and look at the timing of it.

As we are nearing a deadline, and I've not have the time yet to read the people I haven't looked at, I will Vote: Schismatized for the time being. If there's someone that needs to be lynched while I'm not ready with my read, I'd be most happy to see his head chopped

K-Scope has not expressed any suspicion of me in the last 18 pages, please explain how my suspicion of him is OMGUS.

[DeathSauce]

I think letting him take one more shot is good for the town.

Really? What if he's wrong? How is a dead townie good for the town? What precisely about Al's posting history makes you feel he is somehow incredibly able to determine who is scum?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

No, I suspect those that act suspiciously. The reaction by the two of you to my post is quite interesting. K-Scope, I'm assuming your first sentence is directed to OTM?

No, the first sentence was a general comment. More of a notice you won't be getting my vote today.

Yes, but typical for scum, isn't it? Maybe it's just me, but I think resorting to OMGUS as your primary means of determining who is suspicious late in the game is very scummy.

You may think that. I honestly can't care much about that. I state what I find suspicious and what I do not. I can answer questions about suspicions against me if people want it, but I'm not going to discuss whether or not people agree or disagree with my opinion. I'm not responsible for other people's votes.

Wow, you attack me for "mis-using" your quotes, but then completely miscategorize my suspicions as OMGUS. I have repeatedly said K-Scope is at the top of my suspicion list and given the reasons why. Look at his vote for schismatized, the reasons for it, and then go back and look at the timing of it.

Your lack of vote begs to differ. Besides, my reason for voting schis was because of the lack of alternatives. The people I took a read of so far didn't come near any of the suspicions I had towards schis.

[DeathSauce]

Your lack of vote begs to differ.

Ok,

vote:Kaleidoscope

[Off the Mark]

Wow, you attack me for "mis-using" your quotes, but then completely miscategorize my suspicions as OMGUS.

I was only referring to your "OTM is moving up the list" comment when I said that. You're right, your suspicion of Kscope is not OMGUS. I guess I mischaracterized you when I said you were only resorting to OMGUS attacks.

Regardless, I still find you quite scummy.

[Off the Mark]

I think letting him take one more shot is good for the town.

Really? What if he's wrong? How is a dead townie good for the town? What precisely about Al's posting history makes you feel he is somehow incredibly able to determine who is scum?

Maybe you're right... can't say I trust him too much after he went after Qman. It would be nice to hear a little more from Qman.

Lynches are valuable, though, and there's still a decent chance he's a pro-town vig.

[PJ.]

Is my vote on deathsauce?

[Blight]

What worries me is you. Your actions scream scum to me. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. You and DeathSauce are high on my list. Right now, I'm keeping my vote on you.

This is an "I give up" post. You cant defend your position because it advocates doing the one thing that would help scum if they actually used the ploy that you are theorizing. I've already said that scum would most likely try to get rid of a Vig/SK via lynch rather than by using their nightkill, and yet you continue pushing for it. If my actions "scream scum" to you, then spell them out. Thus far my actions have been to keep you from lynching our one claimed power role and

you

cant give a reasonable explanation for why that would be a good move for the town. Try defending your own actions for once.

I'm not pushing AlSleet's lynch. I'm pushing

yours

. I question

why

you pushed to keep him around past day 1, knowing, based on AlSleet's vote on Schis, that AlSleet was reckless with his kill decisions. I question you suggesting that he make a kill to prove his vigilanteism. I question your reasons for voting for Schis. To me, you look more scummy than anyone else here.

[AlSleet]

What worries me is you. Your actions scream scum to me. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. You and DeathSauce are high on my list. Right now, I'm keeping my vote on you.

This is an "I give up" post. You cant defend your position because it advocates doing the one thing that would help scum if they actually used the ploy that you are theorizing. I've already said that scum would most likely try to get rid of a Vig/SK via lynch rather than by using their nightkill, and yet you continue pushing for it. If my actions "scream scum" to you, then spell them out. Thus far my actions have been to keep you from lynching our one claimed power role and

you

cant give a reasonable explanation for why that would be a good move for the town. Try defending your own actions for once.

I'm not pushing AlSleet's lynch. I'm pushing

yours

. I question

why

you pushed to keep him around past day 1, knowing, based on AlSleet's vote on Schis, that AlSleet was reckless with his kill decisions. I question you suggesting that he make a kill to prove his vigilanteism. I question your reasons for voting for Schis. To me, you look more scummy than anyone else here.

I am not reckless. I think most people will agree with me that schis was really scummy on Day 1 and was definitely the best lynch after my vig claim. How was my vote reckless?

And, it may seem like I'm protecting Ecto just because he's backing me, but I'm not. I think it would have been nothing short of foolish to lynch a non-counterclaimed town power role and I think he made the right decision in that respect.

[Blight]

EBWOP

Actually, Panzer may be at L-2, depending on whether CPE's vote counts or not.

[Blight]

EBWOP

I'm an idiot. That last post was meant for another game.

[Blight]

What worries me is you. Your actions scream scum to me. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. You and DeathSauce are high on my list. Right now, I'm keeping my vote on you.

This is an "I give up" post. You cant defend your position because it advocates doing the one thing that would help scum if they actually used the ploy that you are theorizing. I've already said that scum would most likely try to get rid of a Vig/SK via lynch rather than by using their nightkill, and yet you continue pushing for it. If my actions "scream scum" to you, then spell them out. Thus far my actions have been to keep you from lynching our one claimed power role and

you

cant give a reasonable explanation for why that would be a good move for the town. Try defending your own actions for once.

I'm not pushing AlSleet's lynch. I'm pushing

yours

. I question

why

you pushed to keep him around past day 1, knowing, based on AlSleet's vote on Schis, that AlSleet was reckless with his kill decisions. I question you suggesting that he make a kill to prove his vigilanteism. I question your reasons for voting for Schis. To me, you look more scummy than anyone else here.

I am not reckless. I think most people will agree with me that schis was really scummy on Day 1 and was definitely the best lynch after my vig claim. How was my vote reckless?

And, it may seem like I'm protecting Ecto just because he's backing me, but I'm not. I think it would have been nothing short of foolish to lynch a non-counterclaimed town power role and I think he made the right decision in that respect.

You stated you wanted to vote Schis "town or not". How's that not reckless?

[Ectomancer]

Blight - You have in no way demonstrated that AlSleet has poor kill choices. So he voted Schis, so did 6 other people

including you as Theopor!

. I dont care if you are a replacement, you dont get to call AlSleet's vote into question while yours was sitting there right alongside with him.
Despite your vote being on me, you have continued your attacks against AlSleet, trying to convince town that we shouldnt keep him around. You ignore the fact that I also suggested he could no kill and remain basically a vanilla townie, but no. You are determined to ignore every fact I've given on

why

killing him benefits scum and

why

it is to town's benefit to keep him around. He's either town or neutral. Neither you, nor DeathSauce has come up with reasonable logic that would bear out the scum implications tossed AlSleet's way either.

As I said before, you keep moving your argument in a circle to suit whatever angle you are pushing at the time. Let see some of your crap. Bolds added by me where needed.

As far as keeping him around to kill on the side of townies, I think that's an extremely bad idea.

think you miss my point, Ecto. AlSleet is not my concern. The general consensus is he's SK/Vig and not a werewolf.

Although, I do like the idea of him killing only when he's reasonably certain that someone is scum.

Contradict yourself much? First you think it is a bad idea to keep him around to kill for town, but then you like the idea? Also as we'll see, AlSleet has very much been your concern. Despite claiming not to be pushing for his lynch, we find several noteworthy statements.

To answer the question why AlSleet is still alive (assuming he's not scum). I think the most probable explanation is because the werewolves have a role-blocker that can control him. With the roleblocker blocking his role, only one night kill occurs. With only one night kill,

AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2.

The scum probably think it would be easy to get him hanged (again, this is assuming AlSleet isn't scum, himself).

Lynch a man high on the suspects list over letting him get a random kill in to prove that he's Vig/SK and thus possible sacrificing a second townie that night? Yeah, I would.

Then we have the hypocritical Blight:

It's because, during day one, his push to get Shismatized lynched wasn't trying to do what's best for the town. He put Schis at L-2 when the votes started to stack up, and he wanted Schis gone "town or not".

His reasoning for lynching Schis shows that he's either reckless with his killing decisions or could care less who gets killed. Either way, I don't exactly feel easy keeping him in the game.

But here you are, making almost the same statement about AlSleet, as AlSleet said about Schis.

[/quote]As for as I'm concerned, even if AlSleet is a vigilante, keeping him around is pointless because he's pretty much useless.[/quote]

Killing a townie because he's useless? That sounds very familiar, hmmm.


You've continously pushed to lynch a claimed power role and refused to even discuss that we should try to confirm him, or figure out how best to utilize him to town's advantage.
I've not seen you able to defend your position at all, causing you to constantly adjust the angle of your argument, just so you could win the argument, and not so we can do what's best for the town.
In doing so, you contradicted yourself, you accused AlSleet of making a scummy anti-town statement, and then made one yourself. You deny being concerned about an AlSleet lynch, yet your statements are littered with propaganda against him, even going so far as blatantly stating "AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2.".

You're scum.

vote Blight

[Blight]

Blight - You have in no way demonstrated that AlSleet has poor kill choices. So he voted Schis, so did 6 other people

including you as Theopor!

. I dont care if you are a replacement, you dont get to call AlSleet's vote into question while yours was sitting there right alongside with him.

Wow, man. That's pretty weak.

I

didn't vote for Schis.

Theo

did. You may not care that I replaced him, but the fact that I

did

kind of throws any "logic" you have in that above statement out the window.

Despite your vote being on me, you have continued your attacks against AlSleet, trying to convince town that we shouldnt keep him around. You ignore the fact that I also suggested he could no kill and remain basically a vanilla townie, but no. You are determined to ignore every fact I've given on

why

killing him benefits scum and

why

it is to town's benefit to keep him around. He's either town or neutral. Neither you, nor DeathSauce has come up with reasonable logic that would bear out the scum implications tossed AlSleet's way either.

You brought up having AlSleet doing a no kill on

day 2

when I started pointing the finger at you. Day 1 you suggested he make a kill just to prove he's Vig. It's hard getting a good lynch on day 1. The chances of a Vig getting a good night kill on Night 1 is just as difficult. But, you suggest he takes that chance to "prove" he's Vig/SK.

As far as keeping him around to kill on the side of townies, I think that's an extremely bad idea.

think you miss my point, Ecto. AlSleet is not my concern. The general consensus is he's SK/Vig and not a werewolf.

Although, I do like the idea of him killing only when he's reasonably certain that someone is scum.

Contradict yourself much? First you think it is a bad idea to keep him around to kill for town, but then you like the idea? Also as we'll see, AlSleet has very much been your concern. Despite claiming not to be pushing for his lynch, we find several noteworthy statements.

I still think it's a bad idea to keep him around,

if he's going to blindly kill every night

. I also don't trust his choices.

To answer the question why AlSleet is still alive (assuming he's not scum). I think the most probable explanation is because the werewolves have a role-blocker that can control him. With the roleblocker blocking his role, only one night kill occurs. With only one night kill,

AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2.

The scum probably think it would be easy to get him hanged (again, this is assuming AlSleet isn't scum, himself).

Lynch a man high on the suspects list over letting him get a random kill in to prove that he's Vig/SK and thus possible sacrificing a second townie that night? Yeah, I would.

Then we have the hypocritical Blight:

It's because, during day one, his push to get Shismatized lynched wasn't trying to do what's best for the town. He put Schis at L-2 when the votes started to stack up, and he wanted Schis gone "town or not".

His reasoning for lynching Schis shows that he's either reckless with his killing decisions or could care less who gets killed. Either way, I don't exactly feel easy keeping him in the game.

But here you are, making almost the same statement about AlSleet, as AlSleet said about Schis.

As for as I'm concerned, even if AlSleet is a vigilante, keeping him around is pointless because he's pretty much useless.

Killing a townie because he's useless? That sounds very familiar, hmmm.

I'll admit, the way I worded it was wrong. At the time, I thought he was useless because I thought a scum role-blocker could control him. After thinking about it, though, I realized that a werewolf role-blocker doesn't make much sense. Also, the chance that he's Vig (at the point that I posted that) were slim. I meant keeping a SK around (even on the

slim

chance he's Vig) was pointless because he's useless to us (when I thought a scum role-blocker role was plausible). Keeping a SK around doesn't help town because that's still keeping a non-townie aligned player around.

You've continously pushed to lynch a claimed power role and refused to even discuss that we should try to confirm him, or figure out how best to utilize him to town's advantage.
I've not seen you able to defend your position at all, causing you to constantly adjust the angle of your argument, just so you could win the argument, and not so we can do what's best for the town.
In doing so, you contradicted yourself, you accused AlSleet of making a scummy anti-town statement, and then made one yourself. You deny being concerned about an AlSleet lynch, yet your statements are littered with propaganda against him, even going so far as blatantly stating "AlSleet is an obvious lynch for day 2.".

You're scum.

vote Blight

Again,

I'm not pushing an AlSleet lynch

. I'm pushing a lynch for you because of your actions on

day 1

. I bring up AlSleet

only

because it's linked to me suspecting you of being scum.

Out of everyone left in this game, I trust you the

least

. Vote for me all you want. I don't care. It's not going to scare me into backing off.

[AlSleet]

What worries me is you. Your actions scream scum to me. I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. You and DeathSauce are high on my list. Right now, I'm keeping my vote on you.

This is an "I give up" post. You cant defend your position because it advocates doing the one thing that would help scum if they actually used the ploy that you are theorizing. I've already said that scum would most likely try to get rid of a Vig/SK via lynch rather than by using their nightkill, and yet you continue pushing for it. If my actions "scream scum" to you, then spell them out. Thus far my actions have been to keep you from lynching our one claimed power role and

you

cant give a reasonable explanation for why that would be a good move for the town. Try defending your own actions for once.

I'm not pushing AlSleet's lynch. I'm pushing

yours

. I question

why

you pushed to keep him around past day 1, knowing, based on AlSleet's vote on Schis, that AlSleet was reckless with his kill decisions. I question you suggesting that he make a kill to prove his vigilanteism. I question your reasons for voting for Schis. To me, you look more scummy than anyone else here.

I am not reckless. I think most people will agree with me that schis was really scummy on Day 1 and was definitely the best lynch after my vig claim. How was my vote reckless?

And, it may seem like I'm protecting Ecto just because he's backing me, but I'm not. I think it would have been nothing short of foolish to lynch a non-counterclaimed town power role and I think he made the right decision in that respect.

You stated you wanted to vote Schis "town or not". How's that not reckless?

That was like 7 pages before the actual lynch. I know I was being overzealous in attacking schis early on, but later I calmed down and after more careful deliberation I voted for him.

[Off the Mark]

I'm not pushing AlSleet's lynch. I'm pushing

yours

. I question

why

you pushed to keep him around past day 1, knowing, based on AlSleet's vote on Schis, that AlSleet was reckless with his kill decisions. I question you suggesting that he make a kill to prove his vigilanteism. I question your reasons for voting for Schis. To me, you look more scummy than anyone else here.

This post is really making me think. Blight seems pretty sincere. But I cannot imagine right now that DeathSauce and Ecto are both scum, and I have read over the huge DeathSauce vs. Ecto fight that happened on Day 1 a couple times. The thing is, they BOTH look kinda scummy throughout, mainly because of overaggressiveness - jumping on every little thing the other one says to continue the argument. Initially, I was leaning towards Ecto as the scummier of the two, but now that I know his posting style a little better, (basically he just sounds like a confident prick most of the time) DeathSauce looks scummier to me. I encourage everyone to read from the time DeathSauce replaced into the game to the end of Day 1 and see if you agree with my thoughts.

Summary: I believe that DeathSauce is scum. I also believe that DeathSauce and Ecto cannot be scum together. Ecto looks somewhat scummy too though. If DeathSauce was not scum, I would be convinced that Ecto is.

[DeathSauce]

Gee OTM, another False Dilemma for Day Two? Either I or Ecto must be scum because of a misunderstanding when I first replaced?

All you accomplished with that post was to clear Ecto, in my opinion. I am convinced that you are scum at this point, and that K-Scope is one of your buddies.

[Off the Mark]

DeathSauce, what was the other "False Dilemma"?

[DeathSauce]

Well now it is my turn to apologize, I thought you were one of the posters advancing the "Should we lynch Schism or AlSleet" Day One agenda, but after doing a quick re-read I see that is not the case. Sorry about that.

[Off the Mark]

You're busted, dude. You slipped up when you called AISleet vs. Schism a "false dilemma". (thank you for acknowledging that I wasn't the one pushing it, but still, you are busted)

The only way you would call that a "false dilemma" is if you knew for sure that AISleet is not scum. But you just recently posted this!!

I am not at all convinced that Al is not a werewolf, I am very much on the fence about him.

If you honestly believed that quote, there is no way possible that it would occur to you to call AISleet vs. Schism a "false dilemma". Your quote is a lie, therefore you are scum.

[DeathSauce]

Uhhh, no. A "false dilemma" is where the chooser is influenced to pick between two choices when in fact there are more than two options. I am not precisely using the term in it's classic "logical fallacy" sense, but the gist is the same.

[Off the Mark]

Hmmmm ok... I thought you meant "false" as in two options where neither of them are the right choice.

I am not asking people to choose between you and Ecto. I don't expect the town to follow my lead. I'm just explaining why I don't currently find Ecto suspicious because I find you MORE suspicious. Capiche?

[PJ.]

Unvote: Vote:Death Sauce.

My vote should be on this guy.

[Gatorguy91]

I would vote for deathsauce but I'm not sure where the vote would put him, can we get a vote count?