I think I made it clear that I wasn't going to be hunting in that post. Do you want me to hunt?Rishi wrote:You know, there's more to finding scum than just pointing the finger back at someone who is accusing you.Guardian wrote:Well, this is difficult. Both of you can't be scum, but both of you are suspicious of me . This doesn't do much to help me differentiate between the two. I am not going to focus on that right now though --I will focus more on hunting if you like, but I feel that it is more important for me to focus on not getting mislynched right now.
I am not sure either way yet. Shoot, I don't even have a very good feeling either way yet. Why do you want me to make a case if I am not sure which of you is scum?Rishi wrote:You have not made a convincing case on either me or Crub yet.Guardian wrote:As for my "case" on you Rishi -- the sad thing is if I decided I wanted to make a case on either of you I could do so convincingly. However, when I'm town, I tend to be unsure of myself and I don't like making cases unless I am pretty sure I amright. When I am town I sway more, which is what is happening here. I don't feel I am "grasping at straws", though I see how you could see it this way.
I don't know that you are town. Do you want me to "make cases" on both you and Crub, in attempts to get one of you to vote the other? I am not sure which of you is scum, and not sureRishi wrote:If you're really town, then you would give me a good reason to vote Crub. But you haven't given me such a reason.
I hadn't, to be honest -- I've had only about 6 hours to do so, theoretically, and there have been other things on my mind as well. I didn't know ssf would end up dead today; I was quite surprised when it happened.Rishi wrote:I have been spending a lot of time thinking about this. I hope you would to. We're at an important stage in the game.Guardian wrote:I agree with you on ssf, though someone could have killed him just for the wifom nature of his being killed. Your pointing out that you thought someone would bring this up makes me wonder if you've spent too much time thinking about this . Other than that this post by you feels townlike though.
If you say so. I am not sure what to think.Rishi wrote:I don't think somestrangeflea got killed for the WIFOM argument. I think he got killed because someone suspected he was a cop. Then, I figured that someone could use the WIFOM argument to explain why somestrangeflea was killed.
Ok, so here you accept my metagame defense -- that me being aggressive is just me. Then you contradict yourself later...Rishi wrote:Fair enough.Guardian wrote:I too wonder why he isn't dead. I don't think that me being "overt"/agressive is a scum tell, that is just me.
Yeah -- but it can be seen from both sides -- like I said I was quite surprised that I was town .Rishi wrote:A disinterested townie or a scum flying under the radar.Guardian wrote:A-Li's voting patterns are bad. I can't really say much about that. The only thing is that if you look at when she posts and when the hammers happen, she can definitely be seen as uninterested townie -- and I guess that was the case.
Then why accept my metagame defense earlier?Rishi wrote:I don't care how you played other games - I care how you are playing THIS game.Guardian wrote:I keep my options open as town -- I don't know for sure who is scum! As scum, I tend to do the opposite.
If you want to confirm the metagame of me on this, feel free to look at my wiki -- AM mafia day four is a perfect example of me doing what I am doing here as town. Mafia and Werewolves is a great example of how me being single-minded can be indicative of my being scum.
That would be great, but it isn't true, at least not for me.Rishi wrote:It's very easy to change up your playstyles between games and then point to another game as justification of your role.
OK, that makes sense if you think about it at the first level -- but think more carefully about my revealing that I had lied. Revealing that I had lied willRishi wrote:I am inclined to believe you that you didn't receive your role PM at first. However, you were playing the game without knowing your role. You seemed sincere when you were doing that, and you seem sincere now. I think this actually works against you. It shows that you can seem pro-town even when you are lying through your teeth. It's a good trait to have, but it makes me less inclined to believe you right now.Guardian wrote:As for me not receiving my role PM, ask the mod about it. I am not sure if he will be willing to confirm it (though I hope so) but I guarantee that he won't say that he sent me my role PM before he said he did.
I refused because both Crub and SSF had agreed I go last...Rishi wrote:You went third after I pushed for it. I was trying to get you to go FIRST and you refused.Guardian wrote:Me insisting on going last in the cop claim yesterday -- I already explained this. And I didn't go last, even when Crub said "SSF, go". I went third, because that was what we agreed on.
I disagree strongly, I went third to ameliorate you and YB, even when Crub and ssf were fine with my going last.Rishi wrote:You were not being a team player during that claiming exercise
Look -- I can only be 100% sure of my own alignment. I know I am town. I wanted a townie claiming last. Therefore, with the information I had, I wanted to go last. Does that not make sense??Rishi wrote:- you were merely looking at things from your own perspective. That is what makes me suspicious.
I'll believe it when I see it...Rishi wrote:I will not vote for you quickly. If Crub votes for you, I will not hammer without some discussion from you.Guardian wrote:I am begging for a town win here. Whichever of you is town, I implore you not to vote for me, as a quickhammer will ensue. At the very least, give us a few pages -- if you end up voting me, I will understand, but if you vote me without giving me a chance to explain myself you will be added to YB & SSF in clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It sounds short to me, at least at the rate we are going -- I would prefer a few pages, not a few days. If Crub votes me and you actually don't hammer, I'd like you to give me a few pages because then I will know for certain what my goal is in the game -- to convince you I am not scum -- because I will know for certain that you are town. Right now, I don't really feel good about making a case on either of you, as I don't have a particularly strong indication one way or the other as to who is town.Rishi wrote:But you have to set a reasonable length of time. I say that, if Crub votes for you, I will give you 48 hours to convince me not to hammer. If that sounds too short, let me know.
I am telling you what my opinion is so that you might see the reasoning behind it...Rishi wrote:Your opinion on your own play hardly proves anything. Heh. In my opinion, I am a handsome and sexy man. It doesn't make it true.Guardian wrote:Rishi, if you are town, you should feel bad if your play here results in a loss, regardless of me being the more "obvious" choice. I really am not going to be pleased if you are town and you quicklynch me and then go "oh well, Crub outplayed us." I also disagree that "all the signs are there" and that you would be choosing to ignore them. I don't think my play in this game is very indicative of me being scum, at all!
Losing to me is not a possibility unless you are scum.Rishi wrote:I will feel bad if I lose, but I will feel a lot worse if I lose to you than if I lose to Crub.
Again, I will believe this when I see it.Rishi wrote:I said I wouldn't hasty vote.Guardian wrote:Again, I implore whichever of you is town not to vote me quickly. At the very least, for a page or so, don't vote mefirst. It is incredibly ironic how well I can build a case when I know who needs to be lynched -- and if someone votes and the other player doesn't hammer, then that player will be guaranteed to be town.
Pretty much. Oh, and I won't particularly look for playing in games with you, which would be a shame, because up to this point you have seemed to be a very competent player, and a nice guy to boot.Rishi wrote:Aww, man. If I am on your bad list, does that mean I won't get a Christmas card and won't be invited to your birthday party?Guardian wrote:Any questions you have, please ask. If you are town and put a hasty vote on me, you are going on mybadlist.
But it does mean that you don't really want to play chess with him any more if you want a good game of chess .Rishi wrote:That kind of threat didn't work on me in 2nd grade and it doesn't work now. This is a game. For example, if one of my friends absolutely sucks at chess, that doesn't mean he's no longer my friend.
See above.Rishi wrote:Don't toss out-of-game threats at me for something that happens in a game.
So um, what do you want from me? You seem to be twisting my arguments a bit; in a few places you really seem to be just blatantly missing what I am trying to say.
I say that I haven't made a case because I am not sure what to think yet -- and you reply that I haven't made a convincing case yet. There seems to be a strong disconnect there.
It is interesting to note that the only thing you agree with me on is when I find Crub's being alive suspicious.
I hit preview and saw Crub's post -- you both want me to make good cases on each other even though I am not convinced?? You both are asking me to be rather "fake" in that regard, and it puzzles me....