8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Metal Sonic]

How confident was that GI Townread?

What do you think of Ooba hammering that wagon? Regardless of whether you think it was intentional or not, he still voted the guy you claim he was WK'ing, so what's up with that?

If you haven't already noticed, Ooba was yelling all about how GreyICE was "conftown" et cetera.

In my view, this made the GI townread stronger than my ZZZX read, however I had you and mollie in my townblock instead. Grey was outside my townblock.


Earlier in the day, I would've thought that Ooba hammering the wagon was extremely scummy for voting the guy I claim he was WK'ing. After 3 days of game stagnation, I don't really care, and in fact I was glad that he got the game going because I (and probably a couple of others too) were dying of boredom.

[ZZZX]

Metal I will ask you, do you have confidence to hit scum tomorrow for 100%?

also mollie, ika is telling you that he is still watching the thread and is here for you, (but sadly he told me he is sick today :< )

[Metal Sonic]

Metal lets get this straight shall we, I wanted to get venged if grey was town but today looking at things there is a small problem here.

Game is split into 2 factions fighting each others and noone is townier than the other.

lets face it we cant afford a town lynch today unless we made sure to get the town safe by building a safety bridge. we have 2 main issues here

Ooba X Metal

This one is simple yet complicated. Even if both players are towny there is enough hidden "effect" between you too that will end up causing a lynch. and I am pretty sure you both cant be scum together but it is a reaaaly minor possiblity. but it doesnt effect my point


and

Alch X Zar

again there is at least 1 scum here. but still the possibility for a 2 man team to be here isnt removed. tbh its more likely.

I you all agree I am town and get to lynch me this game is lost for town. Now sonic do you value grey's "venge" or this game?

You need to get on and decide on something. I wanted to leave you guys to let mollie in command but I am pretty sure neither me or mollie can handle this mess alone. this is becoming a shitfeast and no matter what happens it will end badly since if I am lynched we will have but a single lynch remaining. aka we will be at lylo.

Anyway so far the only read I will follow faithfully is the fact that mollie is town. To be honest perhaps if I looked enough at mollie i will get a reason to fill my paranoia enough not to trust her but I have decided that the only way to win this right now is to gamble on that fact and set mollie=town as the only "fact" I can rely on., once I have that fact it becomes stubidly easy to win the game.

So we lynch Zar/Alchem today and tomorrow and we hit at least 1 scum for a 100% prob. Scum hunting made me sure I have one scum there at least. or to be more accurate town hunting/connections prove them to be scum using PoE.

If game isnt done we get ooba/metal.

I am very very tempted to go "fuck grey" and vote ooba now. Like I would actually do it.

But yesterday there was 5 town, and grey was the lynch, cause everyone (including my team) also made it go towards grey.

Now there is 4 town. Will the same thing repeat again?

[Metal Sonic]

lets try again


fuck grey

VOTE: ooba

[ZZZX]

Metal I will ask you, do you have confidence to hit scum tomorrow for 100%?

Metal why not follow what i told you? we get ooba after 2 days. doesnt that look good 4 you?

[Metal Sonic]

ZZZX, in order for you to perform your plan properly


you and mollie are going to have to be the "hammers"

that means the two of you must agree on which faction to vote for. Then do it as if it was tomorrow's lylo but now there is 2 joined 1 to be hammerer.

if time is running out (if the game gets boring) and you cannot decide then...

i am not in charge here

[Metal Sonic]

Metal I will ask you, do you have confidence to hit scum tomorrow for 100%?

Metal why not follow what i told you? we get ooba after 2 days. doesnt that look good 4 you?

alch is voting ooba. i am sheeping the same faction.

[Metal Sonic]

dont lend me money if its more than 10 bucks

[Metal Sonic]

Metal I will ask you, do you have confidence to hit scum tomorrow for 100%?

dont ask me this

ask it to mollie

because she will be responsible for choosing the 2 factions

[Metal Sonic]

1 last thing....


if grey was right about you being scum, lynching ooba-scum is akin to lynching you since you can only possibly be scum with ooba (or MOLLIE)

So if ooba is scum, even if grey is right about zzzx, sweeping off zar and zzzx is a doable thing

[ZZZX]

1 last thing....


if grey was right about you being scum, lynching ooba-scum is akin to lynching you since you can only possibly be scum with ooba (or MOLLIE)

So if ooba is scum, even if grey is right about zzzx, sweeping off zar and zzzx is a doable thing

i personally want to get ooba after i get people who are prob scum. since I know I am not scum I dont really need that knowledge. like its a wasted lynch imho unless ooba is scum. and even as scum we can lynch ooba when we have a mislynch ready. then we get you both because I am pretty damn sure there might be 1 scum between you from ur interactions

[ZZZX]

mollie tell me when you are on i need to discuss stuff with you.

[pirate mollie]

don't you

DARE

call my posts spam

I have been putting the most numbers of hours and most effort in the game than any other player here. I have been figuring out roughly who town and scum is Day 1 and 2 and trying to sort people from those days onwards. I have been analyzing 'what if X is town' and 'what is Y is town' for every single player. I have been trying to figure out every day if there is something wrong in my reads and try my best to look at things from others perspective <--- this is frickin hard for me.

you have certainly not been putting time than I have. what you HAVE put in a lot of posts that don't do much in furthering the gamestate, the signal level is very high as in the ability to read the alignment of your signal is being drowned out by the noise that you are emitting. <------- if you are town you may want to stop this cos you are damaging your team by giving scum room to hide.

Titus had the most posts in Day 1 in xmen and GUESS WHAT you lynched her and she was TOWN. meanwhile, 2 in xenoblade had the most posts and GUESS WHAT they were SCUM. so dont give anybody of that postcount = alignment nonsense.

we lynched her cos she was spamposting, her reads were entirely fucked, she put 4 of our scumreads in her "all town bloc" and she was actively damaging the game. so hell yeah we lynched her and i wld do it again if she behaved the same way. it damaged the game in a way that made it hard for town to recover and they never did.

I recently finished a survivor mafia completed game with her and it got to a point where she made 3 different fakeclaims, her vca pointed to brian and I, and she was actively damaging the game. during that day round we played a challenge where we had to answer specific questions about the remaining player like, "who is the best player in the game" and "who shld be in the final 3" and such, then we had to answer the same questions based on how we thought the majority wld answer. 1 of the questions was "who do you think has it the most coming". every1 said titus and every1 got it right so every1 gained a point for it. she was lynched that day and she flipped town but with a major noise generator removed town was able to unanimously lynch the remaining scum. brian, ank, save the dragons, farside, bookitty and I all were endgamed and won. so sometimes getting rid of a noise generator benefits town as a whole and they are better able to find their feet and lynch scum.

I can't remember a thing that zarella says when there are 3 entire pages consisting of nothing but you and zzthing.

Grey was calling ZZZX's posts "spam" and "crap". Not mine. Even though he quoted the wrong person's number of posts (it was me who was 800 posts at that time), if he thought that my posts were spam he would have fucking said so, because he's badass greyice.

pretty sure that if grey realised that you were the 1 with the 800+ vote count he wld have said the same to you.

so dont you

DARE

call my posts spam

the sheer amount of your posts is the very definition of spam. and in that the overwhelmingly majority of them you do nothing to further the gamestate. like I am trying to get a grip on zarella and alchey and I shldn't have to wade through 3 pages that entirely consists of yours and zzthing posts and yours zzthings only. like ooba made a couple of posts later that again got drowned out by you and zzthing.

so I am asking you nicely to dial the volume back and give the game room to breathe if you are town cos what you are doing is strangling the game and it is damaging it IMO. cos it is drowning out the other voices in the game and it is giving scum room to hide. so if you are town plz stop it.

i was talking to you in molliespeak and i was talking to ooba in english

unless i speak broken molliespeak i don't think there's any contradiction here. like i'm not sure what you're seeing at all. do you not understand when I speak to you in molliespeak is it that bad? this is my way of reaching out to you and it is another method that is not working.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying at all. I was referring to what you were saying ABOUT ooba. considering I think you have zero understanding of what molliespeak is I think you shld probably not do it.

you said that you read my iso? do you notice that I only started speaking this way after you came in? maybe you didn't.

should I speak to you like a normal person in english mollie? pls tell me

yes, I talk differently according whoever is talking to me. the proper term for this is called Speech Convergence can you just google that a bit?

this is where I am at with your post. I am pretty sure I have a better understanding of speech convergence than you do. I am not even going with you for the remainder of this post cos at this point you are strawmanning my argument as well as insulting my intelligence and I am not going to enter another pointless exchange with you cos I don't think that it will yield any positive results.

[ZZZX]

mollie do you agree that there is at least 1 scum between alchem/zar and why?

[pirate mollie]

Metal I will ask you, do you have confidence to hit scum tomorrow for 100%?

also mollie, ika is telling you that he is still watching the thread and is here for you, (but sadly he told me he is sick today :< )

tell him thank you and thank you too for being willing to do that. feeling the ikaness in your posts is honestly why I keep putting you in my town pile.

I am trying to sort zarella and alchey out. of the 2 alchy seems very disengaged. like I don't think he realizes that ooba replaced seraphim and that zarella replaced empire. or mebbe he didn't understand my point or where I was going with it.

I am catching up but this where I am at now but I want to go back and reread your previous post.

[pirate mollie]

dont lend me money if its more than 10 bucks

^ this is spam posting since you seem to be confused about what spam posting is.

if you are town, for the love of god stop this.

and stop the talk about "factions" that is pretty divisive manipulative doubletalk and makes me think of what titus tried to pull in hu2.

it is completely unnecessary to post every little thought that enters your brain and then later try to deny that you are spam posting. so now that I have given you an example from your own posts of what spam posting is I expect you to stop doing that.

[pirate mollie]

mollie do you agree that there is at least 1 scum between alchem/zar and why?

I don't understand the axis of which you are spinning from with this dichotomy. I am trying to get a read on the 2 independently and it is hard to do when I am having to wade through spam posting. I feel like you cld stand to dial it back a bit too and mebbe let the game percolate for a bit.

I am going to reread grey's iso so that I can have a clear picture of where his thoughts were when he was died. I know he gravitated to abr/alchey at the end of the day but I need to look up on who he thought was a likely partner, you or ooba. I also wanna reread at last few pages that lead up to grey's lynch. I will do this today, and I will get back with you.

I am going to take a break for a bit.

[ZZZX]

mollie do you agree that there is at least 1 scum between alchem/zar and why?

I don't understand the axis of which you are spinning from with this dichotomy. I am trying to get a read on the 2 independently and it is hard to do when I am having to wade through spam posting. I feel like you cld stand to dial it back a bit too and mebbe let the game percolate for a bit.

I am going to reread grey's iso so that I can have a clear picture of where his thoughts were when he was died. I know he gravitated to abr/alchey at the end of the day but I need to look up on who he thought was a likely partner, you or ooba. I also wanna reread at last few pages that lead up to grey's lynch. I will do this today, and I will get back with you.

I am going to take a break for a bit.

Alright
the logic i used is saying there is no more than 1 scum in metal/ooba and me and you as town, leaves those 2 with at least 1 scum.

[ZZZX]

btw mollie ika asks if you think sonic "spam" is more for apathy?

[Alchemist21]

I went through Sotty's ISO and noticed she kept complaining about Seraphim and how nobody was lynching the slot, but didn't hardpush for that lynch. She had her vote on Seraphim for most of the game, but in her final post she still had Ooba as scummiest but had her vote on the Eddie/Mollie slot.

Reading the Seraphim ISO: There was a lot of complaining from this slot as well, but it was interesting to see how he had pegged Sotty-Kagami-GI interactions (with either flipping scum meaning GI Town, as well as the scumflip of either Kagami or Sotty implicating the other), and leaned more for the Kagami/Sotty votes rather than the GI votes. I don't think he ever once explained his Hoopla vote.

I've mulled things over. All things considered, I still want a Hoopla lynch; her being scum is a sure thing for me at this point.

why do you think this?

You have 22 posts and 0% have you scumhunting or caring about the game at all. You talk about theory for a while, with your vengeful plan; when it gets more or less unequivocally rejected, you disappear. Obviously, I should not pin lurking on you as you've been busy. But if I'm going to be low activity, generally as a rule you should try to make what few posts you do have time for high impact. Your posts are not high impact. I have no idea what you think of the game and as such I have no reason to think you are scumhunting. This is a game where being open is important so that people can read you; you are a closed book. Besides your plan, what have you contributed? You've done some mudslinging at ABR and buddied to Nacho and GreyICE. You've not contributed or commented on any of the major events of the day thus far besides making a non-contribution to the GreyICE/sotty argument up front. Your ISO is 22 posts of nothing.

Hoopla, I've been scumreading you since fucking forever ago, don't even try that.

Ok, so he did explain the vote/scumread ages after the fact.

Blame my philosophy background, I can only be full of conviction when I pretend to be now. I know in the back of my mind, no matter how certain I am, that I could be wrong. I am unsure because I am unsure. Seeing that I've provided reasons for everything I've done, however, I could hardly be called "swaying with the breeze" Also, where exactly do you see me giving up after someone has "flexed back" at me? I have done no such thing by my read.

I'm only "flying under the radar" because I've had three papers due in the last two days (including one tomorrow?!?). I will admit I lurked out after the initial pressure on me but that's because I needed to cool down. I will respond to the points made against me by yourself, GreyICE, and Hoopla in due course, which will be when I have the time to do so.

I would also like you to briefly consider my position. I did not feel strongly about the two central wagons (yourself and Kagami) but because of pressure from ABR and GreyICE found myself (and continue to find myself) in a position where actively pushing for a wagon on my own will only be met with apathy at best and hostility at worst. This seems like a no-go. As such, I have decided to buddy ABR at least until people start listening to me again (if they ever did) because of how vocal he is. This Hoopla wagon has been a breath of fresh air to the effect that I can finally vote my actual number one scumread.

You're right, I really have no conviction for either your wagon or the Kagami wagon and only support them insofar as I felt they would lead to other lynches I feel stronger about (like Nacho, Hoopla before the Hoopla wagon happened, maybe even GreyICE). I am voting pragmatically because this game is entirely politics and buying town cred is my only perceived way to prevent my lynch, which would be detrimental to the town and my team. I am going to fight to continue living at least until there are spare mislynches to be had. So there's that.

I'm surprised he named Hoopla as his top scumread since he took so long to actually explain his suspicions of the slot. I would have expected Kagami/Sotty to be in the top 2, and the reason for dropping Kagami/Sotty was by his own admission to buddy ABR. He also included in this post he felt stronger about a Nacho lynch, which again was never explained.

Based on the Seraphim-Sotty relationship, the Townpoints here would be Sotty voteparking on Seraphim for the vast majority of their time in the game and Seraphim accurately ID'ing Kagami/Sotty/GI. The scumpoints would be Sotty's and Seraphim's suspicions on each other never really went anywhere and they both were complaining about stuff when they weren't posting about GI/Sotty/Kagami.

A lot of players had pinned Kagami and Sotty as scum so I'm not sure how obvious they were to everyone at the time. The more obvious it was then the more likely I think it was scum may have tried to distance from those two. Someone help me out with this point and let me know of they were really obvious.

Now I need to look at the following:
Kagami's ISO and her interactions with Seraphim/Ooba slot.
Ooba's posts RE: Kagami and Sotty.

[pirate mollie]

Keeping the thread short and parsable is going to be important as hell to securing a town win: spamming the shit out of it and chucklefucking in the usual style is going to discourage the legendary scumhunters from posting more, which means less cool scumhunting if they're town or less opportunities to catch them if they're scum. Normally, I wouldn't be so stick up the ass boring but I want a perfect town win and you want a perfect town win and we're not going to get it if we alienate everyone else.

I have a question here for you:

why after nacho said this did you continue to spampost with metal?

@ ika, yes it is to induce town apathy. nacho pretty much explained it here. it is also a way to look productive, bury important game relevant info and leave a long confusing trail that hides inconsistencies, change the history of their narrative (metal's example of saying that he was never for the vengeful plan cos at some points he openly endorsed it) and discourage pple from doing a thorough iso. the scum motivation is to provide a a complete smokescreen of mist spreading that is very hard to follow the game at at all a clear holistic way that makes sense. there is no positive town motivation for it. so if you cld ask zzthing to not respond to metal for a while that wld be fantastic. I wld like to have air to breathe and more room to sort out alchey and zarella. speaking of zarella I found this gem:

Vote: Metal Sonic

i looked at this playerlist and i decided to not put any tokens lol

Playerlists were revealed after token submissions and alignments were assigned. So how did you come to assign your tokens after the fact?

(Nacho, you better be town here and make this way easier for me.)

Yo empire . Interesting point hmm

this post is pure gold. I see why pple are reading zarella as town now looking back in hindsight and working from a town!grey mindset.

did metal ever answer this question? cos it is pretty important.

*notes to self - iso empire*

I went backwards from p6 cos I wanted to see who grey was talking to when he addressed the spamposting issue.

@ ooba

wrt to your hammer do you mean that you had not caught up but you hammered grey anyways? what made you change your mind and "follow the venge plan"?

also I asked for you to help me close holes in my logic in my big long wall post and I am still for you to do that cos the interpretation of my post is pretty inaccurate so do you think you cld respond to that?

in general - also in my backwards reading abr didn't seem to set out to make any friends. he is pretty much getting into it with everybody. thats a pretty ballsy move to do as scum and then to sledge the fuck out of 2 players on a personal level? cos you were butthurt in another game? <----- I had him as town for this cos I thought that it was likely to come a full of themselves mindset but I am closing that off a bit cos it might not be alignment indicative as much as I thought it was. so it is gonna take some thought. what is working against this slot is the swap out was weird and I am not getting much from alchey.

I am mapping out purviews from several different angles and this is going to take time.

[pirate mollie]

okay yaye! alchey is getting his head into the game, that will make things easier.

[ZZZX]

At Mollie: to be honest I am guilty of spamming the thread. Although most of it was mevgrey bs. I honestly lost it and went back to the habits I have from chat mafia. But yea you are right.

Also Mollie here is something interesting. Abr/metal slots interactions. Tbh I didn't read it since its 2:00Am here (and I can't sleep! :[ but on top of my head I feel that those slots have been... Always together in a weird way even now.

Ooba is l2 if I am correct. And interaction shows that metal is truely not a partner of Iona. Can say the same about alchemy.

So we got either pairings of ooba zar or metal alchemy mainly (other pairings still possible.

Generally empire was town. And today I am starting to lean more into alchemy but I need to read in depth when I am awake.

[pirate mollie]

I've actually started re-reading - got a couple of minutes.

I'll take the time out to echo this:

This game is very enjoyable -- it's active, it's not broken, nobody is really obvscum or obvtown, what do you enjoy in a game, if not that?

I think the remaining two scum are playing very well - whoever you are. This is an enjoyable mafia game for me.

this is an interesting post to me cos that 1 of the first things my mentor taught me was that whenever a player comments on the performance or intelligence of a scumteam they are usually scum. until I joined this site it was like 95% percent true. I get here and there are a bunch pple running around calling scumteams dumb and saying that scum are playing well.

what bugs me are the next exchanges of posts following this 1:

yeah I enjoy it too except for stagnation (((


I mean maybe I'm too hyper after doing math I can just sleep it off

there wasn't much stagnation at this point. look at the time stamps:

A lynch has been reached.

Sotty7 was a

Mafia Goon

.

A lynch has been reached.

Kagami was a

Mafia Goon

.

sotty and kagami were lynched within about 6 hours of each other. that is not stagnation.

ooba, answer me this later when you've caught up.

Grey (if town) ultimately caught Sotty + Kagami, which we both could not have done; we both did catch Sotty but Kagami slipped by our fingers (you called kagami town and almost derailed her lynch. Thankfully lynch inertia pushed it through despite your intervention).

If Grey venges would you trust him to do it right despite it being counter intuitive? I mean we may think he is wrong but we might be the wrong one here.

what lynch inertia existed at that time? the lynches happened within 6 hours of each other.

random post by metal:

I have 15 minutes before I leave, okay?? please reach out to me my teammates are saying that you're town but I'm uppity about that!

then ooba posts this:

Wait - WTF - Wgeurts self voted?

and then immediately this:

Vote: Grey

and I have no idea why. then there are a bunch of weird exchanges and there is these 2:

I actually didn't realise that was the lynching vote. But I don't think I would have voted otherwise given wgeurts venge + Nacho's pressure from the grave.

cos its like ooba suddenly wanted to get on board with the "venge plan". I mean he ignored it when it mattered and we cld obtain reasonable info and lynched wguerts instead. he then later decides to follow it and now wants to stick with it without any explanation of his thought process.

and then metal says this which is a lie:

I actually didn't realise that was the lynching vote. But I don't think I would have voted otherwise given wgeurts venge + Nacho's pressure from the grave.

Exactly.

And nacho set the venge plan which I never liked but now every1 wants it and I'm the only one who don't, so sucks to be me majority wins

I don't like how metal is trying to speed his way through the game and that is exactly what he is doing by spamposting and seems to want any lynch that has the possibility to happen and pressuring pple by whining about how bored he is.

anyway that is 1 piece that I am noticing. cos the inertia that he thinks is happening is not actually happening.

[pirate mollie]

At Mollie: to be honest I am guilty of spamming the thread. Although most of it was mevgrey bs. I honestly lost it and went back to the habits I have from chat mafia. But yea you are right.

Also Mollie here is something interesting. Abr/metal slots interactions. Tbh I didn't read it since its 2:00Am here (and I can't sleep! :[ but on top of my head I feel that those slots have been... Always together in a weird way even now.

Ooba is l2 if I am correct. And interaction shows that metal is truely not a partner of Iona. Can say the same about alchemy.

who is iona?

So we got either pairings of ooba zar or metal alchemy mainly (other pairings still possible.

Generally empire was town. And today I am starting to lean more into alchemy but I need to read in depth when I am awake.

these are different pairings than what you had before. before you had ooba/metal and then zarella/alchey. so I am not really understanding your thought progression here as to how now you have alchey/metal and then ooba/zarella and i am not following it at all. I am just not able to eat from the plate that you are absorbing your dichotomies at this time.