Open 29 - C9+2 (~GAME OVER~) before 470

[Crub]

vote-yogurtbandit

out of randomness

vote: lateralus

you put a 3rd vote on someone out of randomness? very suspicious

vote somestrangeflea

I don't like fleas...

Hmm he was quick to make the first vote if it was by number odds. So im going to have to Vote:somestrangeflea

Same deal?

FoS Honary Hitchhiker

Maybe we should slow down the random band wagoning?

[Crub]

2 away isn't such a big thing I just think it's strange to bandwagon someone to 3 'for randomness'. I don't know I guess it just seemed a bit opportunistic to me?

[Crub]

Haha... That's amazing.

But to step away from irony I will

unvote somestrangeflea

for now.

That was fun while it lasted though!

Haha what's amazing is that you weren't voting for ssf

[Crub]

Unvote: Vote Honary Hitchhiker

For his post 21 that added a quick third vote o somestrangeflea. It's not so much the third vote as the accompanying explanation. If it's serious, it's a bizarre reason and if he thought it was valid, HH should surely have thought it was valid at the time he made his first post (where he ignored somestrangeflea's post and voted for me). Or maybe it's one of those posts where the writer subsequently says "It was obviously a joke" which has a way of diffusing criticism since people tend to be reluctant to be seen to lack a sense of humor.

I'm confused.
Both lateralus and HH put people to L-2 for strange reasons. And then both of them played the "trying to generate conversation" card. The fact that HH just quoted lateralus (post 24) and couldn't come up with his own reason seems more scummy to me.

unvote: lateralus, vote: HH

[Crub]

So I guess all we need now is something to argue about for 6-8 pages?

[Crub]

Theres a difference between putting the first random vote on somebody and bandwagoning them to L-2

[Crub]

ok ok ok sorry im trying to pick it up a little the best i can... one im just trying to get through day one and not turning it into a 30 page disscusion over day one and two yogurt bandit voted for SSF also out of randomness how come no one speculated him?

And what's your rush to get to night?

[Crub]

It's in our best interest to choose carefully. It's in the mafia's best interest to lynch someone as quickly as possible while giving away as little information as possible. When you send someone 2 votes away for no reason it looks as if you are trying to rush the voting. It also put's that person in range of a quick lynch by the scum. Having said that I don't think this is something you did intentionally.

Also at this early stage as has been pointed out there isn't much to debate. That's why even a small scummy action can get you on the wrong side of the town. Now if only HH would show up and engage in some dialog maybe we could get a better idea of what was behind his actions.

[Crub]

I like your point about the explination of the random vote by saying it was random. It really doesn't make much sense. But I don't think that is enough to FoS them.

What? That makes no sense. Whats wrong with pointing a finger at someone that does something strange?

[Crub]

DGF you have a knack of confusing me I think I get what you are trying to say though If you and rishi vote HH he'll be at L-1. From his posts I get the feeling that he was already feeling the pressure from just ripley's and my vote, and the numerous fingers pointing in his direction. I know it's early but I think if we put him at L-1 and force a claim we may get enough information to make a decision. Amelia and Yoghurt what are your thoughts? We haven't heard much from you two at all?

[Crub]

Ok guys time to calm down a bit. We need to wait until we hear from HH before we start calling for his head.

[Crub]

This is good reasoning, but I'm going to

Vote: Ripley

instead.

Any particular reason why?

FoS SSF

You also changed your mind pretty quickly yesterday about not quick lynching HH.

[Crub]

You also changed your mind pretty quickly yesterday about not quick lynching HH.

EBWOP:
Just so it's clear what I'm getting at, it seemed to me that you changed your mind when it became obvious that HH was going to be lynched. Also the posts you made about wanting to put the hammer on HH seemed a bit over the top to me.

[Crub]

EBWOTP: (Argh)

You also changed your mind pretty quickly yesterday about not quick lynching HH.

EBWOP:
Just so it's clear what I'm getting at, it seemed to me that you changed your mind when it became obvious that HH was going to be lynched. Also the posts you made about wanting to put the hammer on HH seemed a bit over the top to me.[/quote]

[Crub]

Seriously guys what the hell happened yesterday? I really can't see how we can get away from lynching YB today. YB care to fill us in?

Good points, but we're not in the endgame now...

I can be more... ruthless...

Yeah but if you use your ruthlessness in the wrong direction again we

will

be in endgame. I was suspicious of you already after day 1, your participation in the quick lynch yesterday only fueled my suspicion.

FoS: SSF, YB

[Crub]

I understand why Lateralus got lynched. His dud response and then pointing at HH as his number 1 scum (

after

HH got lynched) was really fishy. However it would have been nice to get some more discussion going, before lynching, so that we weren't in the position we are now.

[Crub]

I agree that SSF is more suspicious than YB, but I can't get past that quick hammer by YB yesterday.

If Guardian is scum I think we're pretty much doomed because AmeliaLi was so quiet there is nothing much for us to go on.

Also I think there is a growing case against Rishi. Firstly he hammered HH which could have been a distancing move when a HH lynch was inevitable. He started the Lateralus wagon, and now he seems to be buddying-up with me.

For now SSF is number 1 on my scumdar.

[Crub]

Crub -- he feels townlike, there is one post of his that gives me pause -- where he blatantly defends HH.

Care to elaborate? I can't find the post where I defended HH The only post close to a defense is where I say that we should at least hear what he has to say before we lynch him, which is pretty consistent for me. I was voting for him at that point, because he definitely had acted the scummiest.

Also you're right about HH's attack on ssf Day 1, I had forgotten all about that. So with that in mind

FoS:YB

, YB lets hear something substantial about why you shouldn't be lynched today. Surely you've got something better than "I was pretty sure he was scum. If not, his lynch at least got erid of a nonhelper."

[Crub]

You were on the wagon, but then call for the wagon to slow down -- but don't unvote or anything.

I didn't unvote because Ripley had already unvoted so he was sitting at 3 votes, and he had definitely acted scummy enough to have the pressure of L-2 on him. I can see it from your point of view though

Unvote, bringing the votecount down to a nice round 0 for everyone!

that actually brings YB down to 1. He was at 2 with you and guardian.

[Crub]

Hehe I take too long to write my posts

[Crub]

I do wonder why Crub is still alive...

I can fully understand why Ripley was scumkilled before me. I've got no idea why DGF got killed night one, I don't think that I would be first choice for a night 1 kill though.

[Crub]

vote:YB

Maybe a bit of pressure will help?

[Crub]

Well, HH was leaking Tells. Plus, would I bus HH if I was scum and Hammer like this?

Lateralus was not helpful. Regardless, lateralus was scummy, and Annoying + Scummy + Helpless(?) = Lynch.

And how is that different from how you've played?

[Crub]

While we're waiting for YB, I've had a read over today.

Crub is looking super-town

and

Crub is the only one that I am sure is pro-town

Also I think there is a growing case against Rishi ...... he seems to be buddying-up with me.

I'm not trying to align myself with Crub. I just think that he seems to be the most pro-town at this point.

Sidenote: Rishi, don't worry about being aligned with anyone alive. The only two players who had an alignment in this game were HH and someone remaining -- none of us need fear of looking aligned with anyone alive, because no such alliance can possibly exist.

I wasn't getting at the fact that Rishi was looking like he was aligned with me which as you point out is not possible. I was getting at the fact that it appeared as though he was 'buddying-up'. Buddying-up is a known scum tactic to try and garner support in end-game. I'm not saying this means he's scum, I'm just saying that I found it suspicious.

By the way, this should be very very obvious, but if there is a cop with a guilty result, claim it now. We lynch who you got guilty on, and if they are town we lynch you tomorrow.

Shouldn't the cop claim even if has 1 confirmed innocent? I'm not disposed to believe a cop claim in lylo (if we mis-lynch today) and if there's a confirmed innocent won't that increase our odds of winning?

I think Rishi is very pro-town, As is Flea.
Guardian and Crub are the remaing, and I think the other is a Power role.

Lastly, pick your most suspicious player (me or Crub apparently...) and quote at least 2 posts explaining why you currently find them to be the most likely player in the game to be scum.

I don't think he finds either of us scummy I think he finds us less pro-town than rishi or flea. I'd like to know why he feels flea in particular is so pro-town from YB's perspective.

[Crub]

I'm happy with the Rishi,Me,SSF,Guardian order.

One point though ... if the cop has no information at all ie. investigated some combination of DGF/Lateralus/Ripley then there is no reason to claim.

Also even if there is a cop claim I see no reason for the doc to claim.

[Crub]

Completely misread Guardian's post entirely. Something gave me the idea he didn't want anyone to claim...

Only if the cop doesn't have any information Then there's no point to claim.
Also the scum should feel free to claim scum at any time

[Crub]

I am not a cop with a result. Flea you're up

Sorry about my absence the past few days I'm too much of a Harry Potter nerd.

[Crub]

So YB is this post with quotes coming soon?

[Crub]

Ooops didn't see that

[Crub]

Well that was completely out of left field. Guardian is away for another day I think, so I'm going to reread and wait for him to come back.

[Crub]

Ok, I've re-read and assume that you're back Guardian. (In the next 12 hours at least)

This sucks, I was convinced that one of us 3 was going to be dead today and flea was the remaining scum. I cannot believe that flea targeted DGF and ripley for his investigations, but there is no other explanation why he wouldn't have claimed yesterday.

Having said that considering I have to pick one of you two I'm going to say that after the re-read Guardian is the last scum in my opinion.

On Day 1 it appeared as though AmeliaLi was trying to defend HH's actions:

Ummm.... Hmm! You guys need to remember five votes arent a lot and its easy to put someone at 2 away....
As for right now I have no vote.

Lateralus... His third vote came with the words "out of randomness." Like he had to say that? Like he had to try to remind everyone that it was random? Lateralus removed his vote with "I like yogurt." Um... Okay?

HH didn't remove his vote. He bandwagoned on my random vote (which I reasoned with I don't like fleas) with a reason for voting for SSF, something about him jumping the gun? It was a vote with dice, a random vote. I got voted for because they don't think fish should be in mafia. Those are random reasons. Giving an actual reason or saying "it's random" seems... Odd to me.

Not sure which one is scummier... I'll vote when there's more reason to vote rather than beginning-game mistakes...

FOS Lateralus
FOS Honorary Hitchiker

I like your point about the explination of the random vote by saying it was random. It really doesn't make much sense. But I don't think that is enough to FoS them.

On Day 2 AmeliaLi didn't do anything except for hopping on the Lateralus bandwagon without an explanation other than to agree with what Rishi said

I agree with what you say about Laterus. DG might've been hitting too close to home with the scum and they thought they needed to get rid of her. With that my vote goes to Lateralus, for now.

Vote: Lateralus

On Day 3 Guardian replaced in and voted YB right off the bat. He also lied about his read on AmeliaLi

I think I am town, from my read -- AmeliaLi seemed town to me. If I get a scum role PM I will be quite surprised.

Lol, to be honest, I was lying that I would have been surprised to get a scum role. I am really surprised to get a pro-town role. The voting history spoke volumes to me, but... I'm town xD.

Guardian you were also wishy washy with your scumdar yesterday it's like you were keeping your options open for a you/me/rishi endgame:

Yeah, I think if YB isn't scum, it is probably Rishi (or me, lol, I still have no role PM yet. I am playing assuming that I am town...). Crub and ssf seem town like.

Crub -- he feels townlike, there is one post of his that gives me pause -- where he blatantly defends HH. I am not sure about him, but though I thought he was townlike earlier, he could be scum. Watch out for him in endgame if I'm dead .
Rishi -- I think he is town, because of his hammer on HH. Scum tend not to hammer their partners....
YB, any last defense, or any claim, would be nice. I think he is our last scum, with an outside chance of Crubscum or Rishiscum.

Maybe I am making too much out of it, but it leaves just a bit of suspicion in my mind that Crub could be partnered with HH.
...
However, as it gets later in the game, I do wonder why Crub is still alive...

If YB is not scum, either SSF, Rishi, or Crub bussed HH day one.
Crub I don't think did it, because his vote was on from so early and for so long, it just seems unlikely.
Rishi, I think is also unlikely to have been busing - he hammered. His play has also been townlike.

You feel good about this lynch Rishi? Kinda fast . I hope YB is scum.

Also I found your insistence to go last in the claim order a bit scummy.

I feel that Rishi has played a consistent pro-town game the only things that raise minor suspicion to me is his hammer on HH without new information after advocating waiting for more content. His over friendlieness yesterday, and the hammer on YB yesterday. Considering though he had 2 other opportunities to quick-hammer YB yesterday I can't see Rishi being scum.

Guardian I'm going to wait until you post before I vote you, but do you have anything that can persuade me to change my opinion on you or Rishi?

Rishi what do you think?

[Crub]

Guardian, I am even more convinced now of your scummy-ness than what I was in my previous post. To me your defense seems to be a mixture between wifom arguments and appealing to emotion.

If you want me to change my mind, I think now is the time you should decide to make a convincing case on Rishi (I'm sure Rishi would want you to provide something on me).

[Crub]

simul-post but similar opinions.

[Crub]

EBWOP: I know 25 minutes is a long time to claim simul-post but I'm posting from work and when I first loaded this page rishi hadn't posted. I gotta learn to use preview

[Crub]

you both want me to make good cases on each other even though I am not convinced?? You both are asking me to be rather "fake" in that regard, and it puzzles me....

I'm not asking you to be fake. I'm asking you to give me a reason not to think your scum other than wifom and appealing to emotion. For me that must also include a reasonable case on Rishi, because if I have to choose between you and him right now you're ahead by a mile.

[Crub]

I too wonder why he isn't dead. I don't think that me being "overt"/agressive is a scum tell, that is just me.

Fair enough.

Ok, so here you accept my metagame defense -- that me being aggressive is just me. Then you contradict yourself later...

Originally Rishi was saying that you being "Overt" was a good thing. The fact that I wasn't in his opinion made me more scummy. He's just agreeing with you because you're agreeing with him Nothing to do with metagaming you.

A-Li's voting patterns are bad. I can't really say much about that. The only thing is that if you look at when she posts and when the hammers happen, she can definitely be seen as uninterested townie -- and I guess that was the case.

A disinterested townie or a scum flying under the radar.

Yeah -- but it can be seen from both sides -- like I said I was quite surprised that I was town .

I don't think that saying you were surprised at being town is helping your cause.

I keep my options open as town -- I don't know for sure who is scum! As scum, I tend to do the opposite.

If you want to confirm the metagame of me on this, feel free to look at my wiki -- AM mafia day four is a perfect example of me doing what I am doing here as town. Mafia and Werewolves is a great example of how me being single-minded can be indicative of my being scum.

I don't care how you played other games - I care how you are playing THIS game.

Then why accept my metagame defense earlier?

I don't think he did. Also I don't think using metagame as a defense is plausible.

It's very easy to change up your playstyles between games and then point to another game as justification of your role.

That would be great, but it isn't true, at least not for me.

See above. Metagame as a defense that you're using isn't plausible.

As for me not receiving my role PM, ask the mod about it. I am not sure if he will be willing to confirm it (though I hope so) but I guarantee that he won't say that he sent me my role PM before he said he did.

I am inclined to believe you that you didn't receive your role PM at first. However, you were playing the game without knowing your role. You seemed sincere when you were doing that, and you seem sincere now. I think this actually works against you. It shows that you can seem pro-town even when you are lying through your teeth. It's a good trait to have, but it makes me less inclined to believe you right now.

OK, that makes sense if you think about it at the first level -- but think more carefully about my revealing that I had lied. Revealing that I had lied will

definitely

not serve to make myself look more townlike, and a mafia member would have 0 incentive to reveal such information.

WIFOM

Me insisting on going last in the cop claim yesterday -- I already explained this. And I didn't go last, even when Crub said "SSF, go". I went third, because that was what we agreed on.

You went third after I pushed for it. I was trying to get you to go FIRST and you refused.

I refused because both Crub and SSF had agreed I go last...

You were not being a team player during that claiming exercise

I disagree strongly, I went third to ameliorate you and YB, even when Crub and ssf were fine with my going last.

- you were merely looking at things from your own perspective. That is what makes me suspicious.

Look -- I can only be 100% sure of my own alignment. I know I am town. I wanted a townie claiming last. Therefore, with the information I had, I wanted to go last. Does that not make sense??

It makes perfect sense if we we're 100% sure of your alignment but we're not. This too is WIFOM, you would want to go last no matter what alignment you were.

I am begging for a town win here. Whichever of you is town, I implore you not to vote for me, as a quickhammer will ensue. At the very least, give us a few pages -- if you end up voting me, I will understand, but if you vote me without giving me a chance to explain myself you will be added to YB & SSF in clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I will not vote for you quickly. If Crub votes for you, I will not hammer without some discussion from you.

I'll believe it when I see it...

But you have to set a reasonable length of time. I say that, if Crub votes for you, I will give you 48 hours to convince me not to hammer. If that sounds too short, let me know.

It sounds short to me, at least at the rate we are going -- I would prefer a few pages, not a few days. If Crub votes me and you actually don't hammer, I'd like you to give me a few pages because then I will know for certain what my goal is in the game -- to convince you I am not scum -- because I will know for certain that you are town. Right now, I don't really feel good about making a case on either of you, as I don't have a particularly strong indication one way or the other as to who is town.

Rishi, if you are town, you should feel bad if your play here results in a loss, regardless of me being the more "obvious" choice. I really am not going to be pleased if you are town and you quicklynch me and then go "oh well, Crub outplayed us." I also disagree that "all the signs are there" and that you would be choosing to ignore them. I don't think my play in this game is very indicative of me being scum, at all!

Your opinion on your own play hardly proves anything. Heh. In my opinion, I am a handsome and sexy man. It doesn't make it true.

I am telling you what my opinion is so that you might see the reasoning behind it...

I will feel bad if I lose, but I will feel a lot worse if I lose to you than if I lose to Crub.

Losing to me is not a possibility unless you are scum.

Again, I implore whichever of you is town not to vote me quickly. At the very least, for a page or so, don't vote me

first

. It is incredibly ironic how well I can build a case when I know who needs to be lynched -- and if someone votes and the other player doesn't hammer, then that player will be guaranteed to be town.

I said I wouldn't hasty vote.

Again, I will believe this when I see it.

Any questions you have, please ask. If you are town and put a hasty vote on me, you are going on my

bad

list.

Aww, man. If I am on your bad list, does that mean I won't get a Christmas card and won't be invited to your birthday party?

Pretty much. Oh, and I won't particularly look for playing in games with you, which would be a shame, because up to this point you have seemed to be a very competent player, and a nice guy to boot.

That kind of threat didn't work on me in 2nd grade and it doesn't work now. This is a game. For example, if one of my friends absolutely sucks at chess, that doesn't mean he's no longer my friend.

But it does mean that you don't really want to play chess with him any more if you want a good game of chess .

Don't toss out-of-game threats at me for something that happens in a game.

See above.

This is one huge appeal to emotion.

So um, what do you want from me? You seem to be twisting my arguments a bit; in a few places you really seem to be just blatantly missing what I am trying to say.

I think theres a bit of that going on both ways.

I say that I haven't made a case because I am not sure what to think yet -- and you reply that I haven't made a convincing case yet. There seems to be a strong disconnect there.

It is interesting to note that the only thing you agree with me on is when I find Crub's being alive suspicious.

I hit preview and saw Crub's post -- you both want me to make good cases on each other even though I am not convinced?? You both are asking me to be rather "fake" in that regard, and it puzzles me....

[Crub]

I lost my train of thought half way through that post. I was supposed to be showing how most of your arguments have either been WIFOM or appealing to emotion.

Using metagame as a defense I find WIFOM. If you know there is a discernible difference between your town game and your scum game you'd be trying to make your scum game more like your town game.

[Crub]

I am vanilla town. There would be no need for anyone to claim any role now. The fact that you suggest I should claim I am actually quite perplexed by.

The reason why I think we should be lynching you is that I really just cannot see Rishi as scum.

Huh?

When Rishi said you were being more "Overt" I didn't take that as him saying anything negative about you. Just the way I read the original statement.

Hmm? It was honesty. Townies don't lie. I don't see why telling the truth about my pre-PM play was a bad decision, or why it is making me look scummy.

You stating it, is just seeming wifom to me "Why would I say this if I were scum?"

By the way, I am curious why Crub was okay with you going last. Crub?

Sorry I missed this in your post. To be quite honest I thought Guardian wanted to go last because he was the cop. I thought this just because he made such a big deal about going last, and if there was a cop, last would be the best place for that person to claim.

It is somewhat WIFOM -- but it is something as scum that I would ONLY do if I thought it would result in me looking townlike.
I did it as town because I thought having the truth out there was a better idea, even though it might look bad to be lying. I literally would have no motivation to do that as scum.

Anyone going last and claiming vanilla yesterday would have definitely looked more townie, in my opinion. This is why I think it is WIFOM to say that you wanted to go last and therefore you are more likely town.

I think that is a broad sweeping generalization that is in no way entirely accurate.

Which of these statements in your opinion are not appealing to emotion?

I am begging for a town win here. Whichever of you is town, I implore you not to vote for me, as a quickhammer will ensue.

Rishi, if you are town, you should feel bad if your play here results in a loss, regardless of me being the more "obvious" choice. I really am not going to be pleased if you are town and you quicklynch me and then go "oh well, Crub outplayed us."

Again, I implore whichever of you is town not to vote me quickly.

Any questions you have, please ask. If you are town and put a hasty vote on me, you are going on my bad list.

Woah, I really don't like that! The whole point of your post was to disregard my arguments and attack my credibility? Shouldn't you have been trying to understand my arguments and judge them and label them appropriately? That sentence makes me think that you had a preconceived notion and just applied it as you saw fit.

You said :

I think my last three posts have been much more than WIFOM and appeals to emotion.

and I was

supposed

to be showing you why I thought that your last 3 posts hadn't been much more than WIFOM and appeals to emotion. I said

supposed

because after I re-read my post it seemed only half written.

I'm interested in what you've got to say I'm sorry if I seem eager to lynch you, it's just that when I did what you're going to do, ie. read the thread a few times thinking Guardiscum/Rishitown and Rishiscum/Guarditown, I just could not see the chance rishiscum being a very high option.

[Crub]

Just checking in, to make sure that you're still in the middle of your Crubscum/Rishitown and Rishiscum/Crubtown analysis Guardian?

[Crub]

Cool Cool Forgot that you said you wouldn't get around to it till the weekend

[Crub]

I cannot see another way out of this other than for us to vote each other and let Rishi decide. There is no major case against Rishi as we have both pointed out. There are a few minor points against him but nothing to make a convincing case out of.

The points you made concerning my play on day 1. All I can say is that I voted Lateralus first because he put someone at L-1 first.

I changed my vote to HH to try and illicit some sort of response from him. Putting someone at L-1 on page 1 is something that can easily be committed by both newbie scum and newbie town (see lateralus), I wanted some more posts from HH, just so that we could get a better feel for whether he was town or scum.

You say I didn't post from L-2 to Lynch but that was because I wasn't around during the day on that saturday and the rest of the time I was sleeping it was a pretty short period (28 hours).

Rishi I hope you are town, and you'll make the right choice. Guardian I'm sorry if you are town, but there is such a slim chance of Rishi being scum compared to you, I hope you'll understand.

vote: Guardian

[Crub]

Yep sure thing Rishi. I tried to address everything that he mentioned in his previous post is there anything else you want me to address?

[Crub]

Ok I've tried to address things in a more simplified format because there was a lot for me to go over.

My Voting Record:

How can you say that my near perfect voting record compared to your bad voting record makes me more scummy? In your words AmeliaLi's voting record was scummy. I gave you a valid reason as to why I voted Lateralus and then switched my vote to HH later on, if you choose to disregard it then I fail to see what more I can say in my defense.

Also you say because HH got quick hammered while I was away makes me more scummy? I fail to see your logic. Me being on the HH wagon at all makes no sense if you are looking at me as scum. The town was undecided, and Lateralus was digging himself a deeper hole, when I switched my vote, if I was scum it would make a lot more sense for me to keep pushing Lateralus. AmeliaLi's lurking and semi-defense was a lot more scummy to me.

The bottom line is I had valid reasons, yes you can say this is WIFOM and say that scum would act that way, but my actions at the end of the day were pro-town.

Guardian Lying:

I do not understand why you would come out and say that you thought AmeliaLi was town and then change your mind later to scum other than to leave a point that you could come back to later and say "See I'm not scum" to me it doesn't make sense as a good play for town or scum.

Guardian Claim Order:

You say that everyone should wan't to go last in a claim no matter what. I don't believe this. If you were a vanilla townie it would make more sense for you to want the scum to go first and any actual power-role to go last. Instead the order that you suggested put the two most pro-town players at the start and you at the end. I didn't voice any objection at the time because as I said I was under the impression that you were setting town up for a cop-claim. The fact that you didn't claim cop is really a null-tell now because in the end you didn't claim last.

Guardian Ass-Covering:

There was no reason for you to point out Rishi's hammer on YB, other than to put suspicion on Rishi. We as a town had all agreed, to a time frame for YB to make some sort of defense. Considering the lack of effort YB had put into defending himself up to that point, I had assumed that he was playing scum that had given up, and didn't see any problems with Rishi's hammer. For you to come out and say that you only have one vote and didn't think that YB would be lynched after all the emphasis that you put on the deadline for YB to defend himself is almost beyond belief.

Guardian "I'M TOWN"

I find it ironic for you to defend your constantly repeating "I'M TOWN" by saying I do this when I'm town. You cannot expect anyone to believe that you would play differently as scum. Also as I pointed out referencing completed games as a defense is WIFOM. Of course you know of completed games when you acted this way as town. Of course you are going to act the same way and reference them as a defense.

Pleas to emotion

I made one plea to emotion at the point where I was taking a gamble on either winning or losing the game. I didn't use it as a defense. I didn't use it to push my point of view, I was just honestly on the edge of my seat praying that I had made the right decision. If you feel that my one sentence at a pivotal time is a "is a strong indicator of Crub being scum" then I want to know what your continual use in almost every post today is?

My Vote on Guardian

You say I didn't want to discuss things with you. I had discussed things with you. I made it clear that I couldn't come up with any sort of case against Rishi, when you threaten to vote me unless I can come up with a case what am I supposed to do? From my point of view we had passed the point of trying to make a case against Rishi, I had already tried and failed and you had already tried and failed.

Yes I voted straight after your read through. However this was not the first time you made your views clear that you were going to vote me. You already made it clear that you were going to try and make a case against me, and not Rishi. Then when you actually do you find it strange that I vote you? To me, based on your posts today it was obvious that you were going to concentrate on me. You came out and fos'ed me because I had made a case on you. You made a case on me but pretty much ignored Rishi. It was clear to me that we were already at a point in the game where Rishi was going to have to decide who wins this game.

You say it was the "easy" option I took by voting you. By no way was it an easy option, I

was

worried about Rishi being scum, however I felt the chance that Rishi was scum was minuscule compared to you. At some point someone had to take a chance and vote. I took it and I'm glad that I did because I chose correctly.

My RishiTown Vibe/My Lack of Defense

I cannot believe that you are trying to use that I didn't make a case against Rishi to defend myself as a reason why I am scum. I asked you to do the same thing, and you didn't/couldn't. As I said earlier, both you and me agreed that making a case against Rishi was pretty much impossible compared to the case we made against each other. I never said that I didn't suspect Rishi, I said that compared to you the level of suspicion was minuscule.

[Crub]

Good Game guys

Sorry rishi I feel like such a prick

[Crub]

Wow, Flea you knew Lateralus was townie and you lynched him anyway?

[Crub]

From the way day 3 played out I figured if I wanted to win I needed you alive, so my options were down to flea or guardian. I thought about it from a fleascum perspective, if I was him I would want either me or you dead because Guardian was the most pro-flea, so killing guardian just didn't make sense if I wanted to pin it on flea. I also thought that there was enough rishi -> guardian and guardian -> rishi suspicion that potentially I could end up being the deciding vote. A flea-death also made no sense for any of us 3 so I thought it was the best option

And sure HH can take credit for the win If it wasn't for my hasty bus of him on day 1 I would have looked a whole lot more scummier Sorry HH I panicked after the same thing happened in our newbie game and thought you were a goner In retrospect I should have just shut up about the whole L-2 thing.

[Crub]

Oh and having YB on town definitely made things 1000 times easier for me