Mini 460 - Werewolves! Game over.

[Gatorguy91]

Unvote Schisim

Also, No, I'm not a pie is good alt.

[theopor_COD]

I'm still not caught up.
I do however think both Schis and Alsleet have various cases against them and both have exuded several scumtells, I'm not convinced either is definate scum, however with an impeding deadline one of them has to face the bullet. I think there's probably more chance of Alsleet being scum at this juncture.

So

vote Alsleet

I'll try and get a read in before the deadline, but work, computer problems are having an effect on all my games at present which means I pretty much suck in them all.

[Qman]

Just an update. I've been following, and I'm happy with my vote.

Moving on

[AlSleet]

Well, before you all lynch me, I suppose I should claim. I claim vigilante. I guess my play has been a little sketchy but I didn't want to be overly townie or prolific so that I would be lynched. But, looks like my strategy has failed. Anyhow, I just ask that before you lynch me that you allow me to prove my role by either being investigated or by asking me to nightkill somebody. I doubt the first option would fly, as nobody would want the cop outed on day 1(other than scum) but I'd like to know if everyone would be in favor of voting a nightkill for me to perform, even though I guess it's a little late for that.

[Off the Mark]

Hmmm, something about the way you worded that makes me distrust your claim, AISleet. Being overly townie will never get you lynched.

As long as there is no counterclaim, you probably aren't the best lynch for today though, so I'm glad I'm not voting for you.

However, it's pretty much impossible to prove that you are actually a vigilante. If you're scum, you could easily fake vig night kills, as long as the town doesn't ask you to kill another scum. Also, you could be an SK, and there's no way we could tell. Also, it depends on the setup, but I have seen games where vigs come up guilty on investigation, but if you were to come up innocent, I suppose that would be proof. Of course, that requires a claimed cop who is sane.

I am leaning towards SK on you, actually. In my last game, a player claimed vig early and turned out to be the SK.

[PJ.]

I don't believe in vigs. 9 times out of 10 a vig is really an SK. I'm okay with 90% odds.

Unvote, Vote:AlSleet

.

[DeathSauce]

Your claim doesn't really make sense. You want us to vote on who you should nightkill? We can't even seem to get a majority to vote on who we should lynch!
As OTM stated it's easy for scum to fake a vig NK, so there goes that idea as well.

Sorry, but you have pretty much cemented my doubts about you. Your half-hearted defense a couple pages ago and now a dubious vig claim make me pretty secure with my vote.

[Off the Mark]

I don't believe in vigs.

Really? Could you explain this more? Do you mean you don't believe in claimed vigs or vigs in general? Seems like they could be pretty useful to the town, if used correctly.

[Ectomancer]

Err, I'm baffled by the previous responses.
First off, it will be fairly easy to confirm that he has a nightkill role. We can confirm that he is a Vig/SK. We ask him to kill someone, they die. Scum

could

no kill in order to have only 1 death that night and cast further suspicion, and this might make sense if we constantly choose town for him to kill. In the end, will this hurt the town? No, scum would kill a townie at night anyhow. In fact, in that scenario we at least avoid the double town nightkill if scum killed and our claimed Vig guessed wrong.
If scum

does

kill tonight, and AlSleet is telling the truth, well then we get 2 town deaths tonight, but we get a partial confirmation on AlSleet. From there, we use him and dictate his nightkills. If we are really afraid of him being SK, we take him out before endgame, but there are times when it can still work out to towns favor should the final showdown be 1 SK, 1 scum, 1 town. Im not concerned about him being an SK at this point.

fos:

you 3 for either not thinking this through, or being scum trying to lynch the claimed power role when

we do

have the ability to partial confirm his claim

and

it not only doesn't hurt us, but could help us at this point even if he

is

the SK.

Our biggest problem at this point is

who

we ask him to nightkill. Schis would of course be the best choice if we didn't lynch him today.

[Off the Mark]

First off, it will be fairly easy to confirm that he has a nightkill role. We can confirm that he is a Vig/SK. We ask him to kill someone, they die.

I agree, we need to consider using him in this way. That's why I said he is not the best lynch for today.

BUT you have to consider the possibility that if he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone, the mafia goes ahead and kills that player. Maybe the real vig/sk kills another player (if we have one, or both, since we know nothing about the setup at this point), maybe not, but either way, there's no way to confirm that AISleet's kill will be the one that was done by vig/SK.

Also I don't think we want to take any chance of leaving the SK alive in the endgame. That gives mafia the chance to claim SK and really make the endgame messy.

[DeathSauce]

There are so many ways that this could turn messy that putting an FOS on us for "not thinking it out" is a little silly. Here's one way I "thought it out", I'm sure I could come up with a lot more given a day or two, unfortunately the deadline is today.

What if AlSleet is scum, the scum NK whomever we supposedly vote for him to NK, the next day we wonder why there was only one NK and a second scum claims he was a doc and he protected AlSleet? Now we have 2 anti-town players advanced as pro-town. Not good.

Also, his claim includes an awful lot of role-fishing, even though he <i>seems</i> to be doubtful about it's possibility. It is, however, exactly what I would expect a scum on the verge of a lynch to try to do, get as much power role info as he can before he goes down.

[AlSleet]

Hmmm, something about the way you worded that makes me distrust your claim, AISleet. Being overly townie will never get you lynched.

As long as there is no counterclaim, you probably aren't the best lynch for today though, so I'm glad I'm not voting for you.

However, it's pretty much impossible to prove that you are actually a vigilante. If you're scum, you could easily fake vig night kills, as long as the town doesn't ask you to kill another scum. Also, you could be an SK, and there's no way we could tell. Also, it depends on the setup, but I have seen games where vigs come up guilty on investigation, but if you were to come up innocent, I suppose that would be proof. Of course, that requires a claimed cop who is sane.

I am leaning towards SK on you, actually. In my last game, a player claimed vig early and turned out to be the SK.

If I was scum, there would only be one nightkill. Unless of course the doctor protected who I go after.

Well, I wouldn't want the cop to claim at this pont in the game, but I guess for you to believe me he would have to. That's entirely up to him though. I don't expect him to. I guess you'll just have to trust me. You can either sacrifice the opportunity for practically another kill for the town from me, or you can kill me and risk losing a powerful town role.

[Ectomancer]

DeathSauce, at least OTM had the sense to say that AlSleet isn't a good choice for lynch today. Panzer

voted

for him and you left yours sitting there.

unvote: vote Schism

I still think Schis could be a n00b (who has lost interest), but I'm not going along with an AlSleet lynch today. If we had more time, I'd prefer to put Panzer and Deathsauce under the gun for their aversion to putting the AlSleet claim to a test. Deathsauce, think about it. Scum claims Doc protecting AlSleet, real Doc counter claims, we get AlSleet and 1 of his buddies in a single stroke. In that situation, the loss of the Doc the following night would be well worth getting 2 scum. Please please let them try something as stupid as that.

[AlSleet]

Err, I'm baffled by the previous responses.
First off, it will be fairly easy to confirm that he has a nightkill role. We can confirm that he is a Vig/SK. We ask him to kill someone, they die. Scum

could

no kill in order to have only 1 death that night and cast further suspicion, and this might make sense if we constantly choose town for him to kill. In the end, will this hurt the town? No, scum would kill a townie at night anyhow. In fact, in that scenario we at least avoid the double town nightkill if scum killed and our claimed Vig guessed wrong.
If scum

does

kill tonight, and AlSleet is telling the truth, well then we get 2 town deaths tonight, but we get a partial confirmation on AlSleet. From there, we use him and dictate his nightkills. If we are really afraid of him being SK, we take him out before endgame, but there are times when it can still work out to towns favor should the final showdown be 1 SK, 1 scum, 1 town. Im not concerned about him being an SK at this point.

fos:

you 3 for either not thinking this through, or being scum trying to lynch the claimed power role when

we do

have the ability to partial confirm his claim

and

it not only doesn't hurt us, but could help us at this point even if he

is

the SK.

Our biggest problem at this point is

who

we ask him to nightkill. Schis would of course be the best choice if we didn't lynch him today.

Thank you, the first part of your post is what I had proposed but I don't think I worded it as well as you did. Unofotunately everybody probably would want me to kill myself and I can't do that so we wouldn't be able to reach a consensus on who I should kill. I'll keep chacking back throughout the day, but if it's right before deadline and there's no agreement I'll just say in advance who I'm going after I suppose. It's not the best way to do things, but I think it would make a lot of things clearer.

[AlSleet]

There are so many ways that this could turn messy that putting an FOS on us for "not thinking it out" is a little silly. Here's one way I "thought it out", I'm sure I could come up with a lot more given a day or two, unfortunately the deadline is today.

What if AlSleet is scum, the scum NK whomever we supposedly vote for him to NK, the next day we wonder why there was only one NK and a second scum claims he was a doc and he protected AlSleet? Now we have 2 anti-town players advanced as pro-town. Not good.

Also, his claim includes an awful lot of role-fishing, even though he <i>seems</i> to be doubtful about it's possibility. It is, however, exactly what I would expect a scum on the verge of a lynch to try to do, get as much power role info as he can before he goes down.

I don't want to reveal power roles. I'd rather prove myself by killing the town's choice.

[theopor_COD]

Meh . . I can see Alsleet being a serial killer as much as a Vigilante. However if he's telling the truth he's obviously very important to our chances.

unvote, vote Schis

[Off the Mark]

If I was scum, there would only be one nightkill. Unless of course the doctor protected who I go after.

Huh? So you don't believe there are any other killing parties? There could be 1, 2, or even 3 kills. Scum, SK, and vig. The number of kills and your guilt/innocence have nothing to do with each other. If you're scum, the scum kill will be your kill. If you're not, then the vig or SK kill will be yours. We won't be able to tell.

I guess you'll just have to trust me. You can either sacrifice the opportunity for practically another kill for the town from me, or you can kill me and risk losing a powerful town role.

Appeal to emotion, big time. I am feeling less good about your claim after this post. Wait a minute... this is a werewolves game. What is the vig equivalent in a Werewolf game? Is it still called "vigilante"? Are vigs common in werewolf games?

[Shanba]

Vote Count of oh dear deadline is approaching fast

7 to lynch, 4 at deadline

5: schismatized

(Xyzzy, kscope, Alsleet, Ectomancer, theo)

3: Alsleet

(qman, Deathsauce, Panzerjager)

1: Ectomancer

(OTM)
Not Voting: Bethelmark, schismatized, gatorguy91

Deadline will be midnight tonight, as that's around when I'll be waking up tomorrow. Go go go!

[AlSleet]

If I was scum, there would only be one nightkill. Unless of course the doctor protected who I go after.

Huh? So you don't believe there are any other killing parties? There could be 1, 2, or even 3 kills. Scum, SK, and vig. The number of kills and your guilt/innocence have nothing to do with each other. If you're scum, the scum kill will be your kill. If you're not, then the vig or SK kill will be yours. We won't be able to tell.

I guess you'll just have to trust me. You can either sacrifice the opportunity for practically another kill for the town from me, or you can kill me and risk losing a powerful town role.

Appeal to emotion, big time. I am feeling less good about your claim after this post. Wait a minute... this is a werewolves game. What is the vig equivalent in a Werewolf game? Is it still called "vigilante"? Are vigs common in werewolf games?

In regards to your first point, I meant that if there turns out to be only one nightkill then that would definitely mean I'm scum. Of course there can be other killing roles, but I'm just saying if there was only one kill that would disporve my claim.

Also, with the appeal to emotion, I was just simply laying out the options from my perspective. Sorry if trying to convince you of my claim is scummy to you.

And, no, I wasn't called anything other than vigilante.

[Gatorguy91]

I don't think schisim is scum, and i believe alsleet (about being vig). WTF to do...

Vote Off The Mark

[Off the Mark]

Gatorguy, you've given us less analysis than Korran, which I thought was impossible. Can you explain why you are voting for me?

I don't think we should lynch AISleet today. I think that although there is no way to PROVE his claim easily, we can certainly see who ends up dead and make a more informed decision later.

I think AISleet has about a 50/40/10 chance of being SK/Vig/Mafia. So, yes, I also believe he has a solo-nightkill role. I was just trying to explore every possibility and perhaps that made me look scummy to you?

[DeathSauce]

Well, I wouldn't want the cop to claim at this pont in the game, but I guess for you to believe me he would have to. That's entirely up to him though.

See, this is pure rolefishing. If there was a cop, claiming today would do NO GOOD! There has been no opportunity for them to investigate you, and claiming now makes it extremely likely they get NK'd, depriving us of a major pro-town role and depriving us of any info about you.

DeathSauce, at least OTM had the sense to say that AlSleet isn't a good choice for lynch today. Panzer voted for him and you left yours sitting there

What do you mean? I think he is scum. I have thought he was probably scum for a number of days. Now I am even more convinced. Why would I change my vote?

[Gatorguy91]

It was sort of a random vote, throwing out the possibility to see what everyone had to see.

[DeathSauce]

Hey QMan, no posts for 19 days and then we get two sentences? You claim you've been following, how about some evidence of that? Also, about 25 days ago you posted this:

I'll do Xyzzy later.

I still haven't seen that analysis

[DeathSauce]

We're slightly past the random voting stage here, Gator