New York 180 (Endgame)

[House]

@house what type of horse do you have? What does he or she look like?

like vampires it's a far more intriguing topic than alot of what has been going on this game.

Like some horses in some ways, different from other horses in others. You know, like other horses.

She has hair, four legs, and a tail.

What did you expect my horse to look like?

[House]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

[FA_Q2]

@house what type of horse do you have? What does he or she look like?

like vampires it's a far more intriguing topic than alot of what has been going on this game.

....

Posts like this are why you seem so damn scummy dragon. Deliberate misdirection and posting a complete disinterest in the game.

[House]

@house what type of horse do you have? What does he or she look like?

like vampires it's a far more intriguing topic than alot of what has been going on this game.

....

Posts like this are why you seem so damn scummy dragon. Deliberate misdirection and posting a complete disinterest in the game.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

dragon, please don't humor FA's poor push. It's not even worth it.

[FA_Q2]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

Why?

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

[House]

SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.

The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.

Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?

Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.

What has he done to make you want to keep your vote on him?

Your post reads as extremely scummy.

Why?

When the person that was 'pressured' to responds fails to do so and is not in threat of lynching at the time, what is scummy about vote parking until there is a better candidate. I usually do this as well tbh and don't move my vote until there is someone that I read as scum. It is why my vote sat so long on shinobi until viking started posting like scum and the case against him pulled my vote.

Shinobi isn't lynchbait, either. Playstyles such as mine, ABR's, and dragonspawn's, to name a few, raise flags when people use such a convenient excuse to votepark them instead of actively scumhunt and pressure suspects.

[dragonspawn]

His scum huntin' is super duper fake, even for Day 1 standards. LYNCH IT!

sorry by where exactly is your scum hunting today? People in glass houses should throw rocks.

Ladies and Gentlemen, sheep me on this, fellas. You won't regret it.

scum might not regret it but I town probably should.

of course I piss people off.

Unrepentant scummy play as town is

my

shtick, dragonspawn.

You should stop, you can't pull it off as well.

maybe not but practice makes perfect.

btw sounds like a good horse.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Dragon seems to get himself in this position in every game.

yeah it gets me into trouble. Ironically if I didn't have some trouble everyone would think I'm scum for not playing usually. If I'm going to get scum read and into altercations with people I may as well have fun with it

Who are your top suspects and why?

[pisskop]

I may note be able to respond regularly or in-depth within the next day or two, what with the holiday and the snowstorm tonight.

[T S O]

I'm going to be honest, the whole viking-vs-dragon thing really bores me - they both seem lynchbait as all fuck.

[T S O]

House, I seem to remember you stating preference for lynching viking over dragon because firstly you thought he was more likely to flip scum, but secondly if he was town that his flip would give you information on dragonspawn.

Doesn't this information work the other way around? And, if so, why are you supporting viking's lynch over dragon's? Because they both seem equally lynchbait to me, so that nullifies that argument.

[pisskop]

Elusive

I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.

Viking's play has consistently been direct and has more of an outgoing newbtown than scum feel. He says things with confidence, and sometimes it feels like overreaching, but they always seem to show a clear thought process.
. For example, his 88 is similar to how I felt in response to Wake's 54. It's true I didn't like his 416, with how he doesn't explain his 'interesting' feelings towards Silverwolf or Grib, but I couldn't find any scum thinking 422 was adequate on its own. And in 497 he claims he isn't lynchbait, which is more newbtown overestimation. I would imagine any scum would try to play up their potential shelter.

Also, considering some of the replaces - what is your or this site's theory on replaces having a higher then average chance of being scum?

I think more townie players replace out due to disinterest or being disgusted by a player.

Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?

I'm not sure it was a scumslip as much as poor or improper word use.

---

Dragon

This is scum trying to get pressure off of himself by going totally passive to everything. LYNCH IT!

I saw the question. Didn't want you to think I'm ignoring it. I'm not sure what to think of quite a number of you guys so far. This is my first game with most of you and it usually takes some time to get descent reads on people.

You seem more genuine in your responses.
. Do you think you tend to withhold your vote in general? How do you typically scumhunt?

of course I piss people off.

Why do you deliberately play this way then? Does it get you results?

---

House

dragon, please don't humor FA's poor push. It's not even worth it.

What is this? Do you not read or not care? She clearly states her opinion here:

That assumes that viking is more likely town then Dragon. I don't think that is the case and I don't see anything from silver that would indicate that she thinks so either unless I missed something.

Playstyles such as mine, ABR's, and dragonspawn's, to name a few, raise flags when people use such a convenient excuse to votepark them instead of actively scumhunt and pressure suspects.

Looking over your meta, I really dislike your playstyle in general. You seem to purposely want to piss people off, and then call them scum for it. Others have noted your willingness to call either scum; and you seem to have lost interest in ABR.

[T S O]

House, I seem to remember you stating preference for lynching viking over dragon because firstly you thought he was more likely to flip scum, but secondly if he was town that his flip would give you information on dragonspawn.

Doesn't this argument work the other way around? And, if so, why are you supporting viking's lynch over dragon's? Because they both seem equally lynchbait to me, so that nullifies that argument.

Changed post in requote to what I actually meant - only one word, information --> argument.

[House]

House, I seem to remember you stating preference for lynching viking over dragon because firstly you thought he was more likely to flip scum, but secondly if he was town that his flip would give you information on dragonspawn.

Doesn't this information work the other way around? And, if so, why are you supporting viking's lynch over dragon's? Because they both seem equally lynchbait to me, so that nullifies that argument.

I'm not arguing anything. dragon is lynchbait, and viking is scummy.

dragon's wagon popped up as a counterwagon to viking, with 2 of my scumspects powering it.

A viking scum flip will give me more of a case against those 2 players.

A dragon town flip gives us nothing but "derp oh well he was scummy anywayz derp".

[vikingfan]

though I think it possible that there are two town players scum are trying to go after.

Could you elaborate on this?

Certainly, I just meant that I think there's a possibility both of us are town and scum are bussing/bandwagoning us. It's not impossible or anything. As for playstyle, I've never played with any of you before so that handicaps me some. And I've been gone for several years and RVS wasn't a phrase back then. That's why I linked to several of my games for meta readings since that seems to fascinate so many players here.

I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.

vikingfan, I haven't gotten an answer from you - you stated that Grib was not bussed for his V\LA comment while you were bussed. Do you see why that is a scum slip? It implies that both you and Grib are scum and that one or more people from you wagon are scum.

Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?

I skimmed through one of the town and one of the mafia games you linked to vikingfan, it seems like both are from 10 or so years ago. First, have you been playing mafia since then under another or alt account or offsite? Then, your town meta from that game seems to be more aggressive - would you agree?

Correct, I have not been playing here on the forum in that time, I just resurrected the account (I was surprised it was still active) and haven't been reading the forum here at all (I am not certain if the 'view posts by poster' is available across the whole forum, but if it is, you can use it and verify what I am saying, thus why I was not aware of the RVS phrase. I do see now why people would assume that but assumptions are faulty. I have not been playing mafia under an alt account or at another site. Town would definitely be more aggressive, and I would be playing that way in a mini with much less posting than this game. I was aggressive as scum too in those games so I think my meta has changed some over time.

@vikingfan-What do you think of each person on your wagon so far?

Coming up tonight I think in a future post.

House, I seem to remember you stating preference for lynching viking over dragon because firstly you thought he was more likely to flip scum, but secondly if he was town that his flip would give you information on dragonspawn.

Doesn't this information work the other way around? And, if so, why are you supporting viking's lynch over dragon's? Because they both seem equally lynchbait to me, so that nullifies that argument.

I'm not arguing anything. dragon is lynchbait, and viking is scummy.

dragon's wagon popped up as a counterwagon to viking, with 2 of my scumspects powering it.

A viking scum flip will give me more of a case against those 2 players.

A dragon town flip gives us nothing but "derp oh well he was scummy anywayz derp".

I'm curious since you didn't address the possibility of me flipping town. what would you conclude from that possibility?

[House]

I'm curious since you didn't address the possibility of me flipping town. what would you conclude from that possibility?

Why would I?

Should I also consider the possibility of dividing by zero?

[vikingfan]

I'm curious since you didn't address the possibility of me flipping town. what would you conclude from that possibility?

Why would I?

Should I also consider the possibility of dividing by zero?

LOL, I'm going to enjoy mentioning this in the postgame.

[ika]

VC 1.0

Pisskop: ABR [L-10]

FA_Q2: Cheetory6 [L-10]

Wake88: croboss [L-10]

T S O: Jared615 [L-10]

acryon: Shinobi [L-10]

ABR: elusive [L-10]

vikingfan: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingoncelt, House, FA_Q2, kitz [L-3]

Dragonspawn: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan [L-7]

Elusive: Naked jogger [L-10]

Not voting: TSO, Wake88

21 alive, 11 to lynch

(expired on 2015-02-22 00:00:00)

Mod notes: replacing croboss

[Aeronaut]

That being said, I don't really agree with what's she saying.

What in particular don't you like about what I am saying?

I don't agree with your stance on Dragon, here. While I understand that he gets himself in a bad position early each game, that argument still is null at best. The fact that people keep using it really disturbs me.

Here's why; Say this is how he usually is. Dragon rolls scum this time around, it's possible that he intentionally or unintentionally acts the same way, especially in a game full of people he knows. If I were him, and I had that reputation, I'd

make sure

to act exactly as I always act around them, because otherwise they'd suspect me.

His scum huntin' is super duper fake, even for Day 1 standards. LYNCH IT!

:/

I'm also not loving boon this game, tbh.

I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.

vikingfan, I haven't gotten an answer from you - you stated that Grib was not bussed for his V\LA comment while you were bussed. Do you see why that is a scum slip? It implies that both you and Grib are scum and that one or more people from you wagon are scum.

Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?

I skimmed through one of the town and one of the mafia games you linked to vikingfan, it seems like both are from 10 or so years ago. First, have you been playing mafia since then under another or alt account or offsite? Then, your town meta from that game seems to be more aggressive - would you agree?

Horse is beeing agreeable so far.?

Many people are town reading SilverWolf.

Also, considering some of the replaces - what is your or this site's theory on replaces having a higher then average chance of being scum?

dragonspawn, so you have nothing of value to add other then wanting to converse about vampires and horses? I agree with you it can be hard to read players without knowing them but of the different types of things you could do to get a better sense, which have you thought of actually doing so far? And where?

I've got to be honest, this post reads as mostly fluff questioning to look busy, especially since you haven't taken a stance yourself. Like, what's the point of the last question? Are you going to start scum reading people as they replace, at L-11, on day one? That's a bit silly IMO.

You're asking for "people's opinions", but not giving any of your own. I'd like to know your personal opinions on all of the questions you've asked.

Too busy today, will post late tonight (3AM EST) at the earliest.

General question for people who've played with Grib, is he generally more active? I got the impression that he was talkative at the beginning of the game for some reason.

[Aeronaut]

Also, large storm coming in my area, so I may not be able to access the internet for a day or two if the power goes out. I think I should be fine, though.

[Klingoncelt]

Good luck to all in the storms, stay safe!

[Jared615]

Yeah House seems to be making a good case for lynching viking

[SilverWolf]

I wasn't sure what to make of Aero so far but 593 is pretty town.

Aero-I'm not giving dragon a pass because I know him and know he is lynchbait, it's because I don't see anything particularly scummy or unusual from him. That said, I'd like to see some reads from dragon on someone besides me and Aero.

Like dragon-what do you think of elusive so far?

That said Aero-Have you seen anything from vikingfan that even looks remotely town and not scummy as fuck? Has he shown much interest in the game like dragon has and many of us have. Is he scumhunting at all or trying to interact with anyone? Does it seem like he's using the playing dumb card because I'm sorry but even if you haven't played here in a number of years, I have a hard time believing you don't know what RVS is. I mean c'mon. Is he trying to put our mind at ease that he couldn't possibly be scum but rather lost town? I've seen that tactic used before by scum. His post voting for dragon is weak and his use of the term bussing instead of wagoning is not exactly reassuring me he's town. What townie would mix up those two terms? And finally, most scum lynches have quite a bit of resistance where town wagons generally don't. Vikingfan is meeting a hell of a lot of resistance in the form of a dragon counter wagon.

Boon is questionable as well and so is elusive. I think there are scummier people in this game than dragon and I'm not convinced enough to join that wagon.

And frankly, like House has already said, the info. from Viking's lynch would be valuable to determine the motives of the people on dragon right now and if viking is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town. If viking is town, we look at his wagon for scum.

I'm not sure what more I can tell you here for a D1 lynch.

Do you at least understand why I feel viking is more likely to be scum than dragon?

---------------------------------------

Shinobi-I disagree about that post from Acryon being scummy because it was relevant to what we were talking about and useful as well. Not sure how that post makes him scum but he'd not really all that townie looking yet. I have quite a few I'm not sure of yet.

--------------------------------------------------

Aero-Grib isn't usually this quiet. I'm not sure I'd call it scummy yet however. I'd give him a chance to post.

[vikingfan]

Actually, after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me so I'll just go for SilverWolf and House since I know those two have been the two players most vocally against me. Post 62 is pure fluff, a lot of ppl are buddying up to her early on. She admits she is susceptible to buddying and accepts Grib's answer without further complaint and has a defense of Grib in her last post in this game (noted for future reference based on how one of these players flip). I find it extremely interesting that she says her weakness as town is being too indecisive (she's been VERY decisive where I'm concerned this game) and she says as scum she sucks at manipulating people but yet people have been buddying up to her this game, which is extremely interesting since the reverse in both situations is happening this game. Spends a ton of time talking about games she's played with other people in this game (of which I am not one). BTW, I find it extremely interesting that I am the common target on Day 1 and yet when I look at ika's votecounts, I don't show up on many of them, which is indicative to me that though people are voting me, they're also taking them off before ika does his votecounts.

As for House, notes early on that he believes Silver is town, defends Silver when she is attacked, has a LOT of quick fly-by-night posts with not so much substance, and he and Silver have been pretty much buddy-buddy all game from the start. Not sure if this is due to alignment or just being friends though. Refuses to even consider other possibilities besides that I MUST be scum which doesn't strike me as very wise. I've played mafia long enough to know nothing is absolute until the mod posts the death scene.

[Klingoncelt]

Viking,
Dragonspawn, FA_Q2, House, SilverWolf, T S O, Wake88, and I all played together on another site. We know each other fairly well.

There's no buddying going on at all between any of us, that term is becoming overused in a creepy, overly-paranoid way on this site of late.