Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[Honey bee]

Vote count 1.07

Lalendra (5):

acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR, Lyserg-Zeroz

Aristophanes (4):

West9, Metalcyanide, farside22, Lalendra

Ginko (1):

VysePresident

West9 (1):

Ginko

Metalcyanide (1):

prawneater

Not voting:
With 12 alive It takes 7 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-01-22 22:14:00)

[farside22]

Oh, because Johnny sucks at explaining things.
@farside:
Confirmation bias is typically when a player is like "I think this person is scum" and then they proceed to see everything and anything that player does through a biased POV because they already think they're scum.
P1: "I think player X is scum because of this one reason that might be reasonable. I also think their lurking is scummy!"
P2: "But player X has a general meta of lurking?"
P1: "I'm literally so sure he's scum so I will ignore this consideration."

I'm gonna go suffer through schoolthings now.
zzzzz.

-Cheetory6

Sometimes that reads scummy. It really depends on the players other post in the game.

[Aristophanes]

Lol, I guess I must be a secret doublevoter and didn't even know it. Still somehow have 2 votes in that VC.

Also, be back tomorrow after work. Sorry guys for lack of content.

OOPS, fixed -hb

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

Damn, I blame sleepiness...

@Mod/players

: I forgot to mention I'm in V/LA from now on and for about a week. I should be able to get at least one non proddodge post a day, at least until Wednesday (from there on I still don't know how limited my internet access will be, I'll let you know as soon as possible).

Comments: @Vyse: Sorry about the too specific meta talk, I did link games in my last post thou. Speaking of meta, I had the opposite reaction to Metal's "Anti-scum" play, because it reminded me of something he's said as scum that has some of that too selfaware/too careful vibe (linkity, last para about safe votes). Since I also found something of the same vibe from a townMetal game (think I linked the game on my previous post) I'm of the opinion that it's not an alignment indicative thing.

Not sure I get the "direction" concept and how lack of it is apparently good (don't townleaders and proactive players in general have direction?). Explain it to me using examples with Metal's post if you can, because bleh at pure theory talk. If anything, that sounds to me like vouching for reactionary rather than proactive play (although I think Metal¿s play is reactionary in general anyways...)

--I'm not really sure about my Ari read at this point. I still dislike his early play, but his more recent content is so far afield of what I'd expected from him that I'm second-guessing my ability to read him.

What were you expecting and why were you expecting it?

*echo of Farside and Ginko's reactions to your vote* Dismissing the meta talk earlier and basing your vote mostly on the notion of Ginko that you got because of it (I think that's what happened(?)) is also kinda weird. (lol we aren't at wall wars yet P= )

@Ginko:

Sorry about order, but don't have time: The second kind of clarifications.
The other thing ties back to what I said to start conversation with Ari about my impression of Lal's behavior this and her first game; I think she showed more genuine curiosity for things going on in the game in her town game, the few question she's asked this time around I can see as having scum motivations (furthering scum reads, deflecting).
Something something how I play devil's advocate when I ramble something something how I like to self doubt sometimes; can't say I'm at the "she is scum and must die in a fire!!" mode but I like the vote enough to put it there in a serious intent-to-lynch manner; culmination of small things I suppose, it's how I'm perceiving her general behavior, how that may fit with the bits of meta I can get of her and how some of her points to argue about someone's scumminess seem like grasping or unnatural and forced.

You want me to flatter you more here ;-;... It wasn't about being the best player in the universe but more related with the feeling I stated: you didn't botch those 2 days for lack of presence or impact .-. (kinda completely the opposite iIrc).

Runing out of time: @Metal: Can you directly answer the question I asked at top of page 12? As for your read: Damn, was hoping for something more substantial, can you try to put your townLal feeling into words, like point me out the differences between those two games and how they present themselves in this game?

I agree that Ari can be a really good town player, but I think he isn't that usually a leader or early one anyways and that he still has a problem with turning into lynchbait. If I get time I'll try going over your shared games with Ari because I think I've only played one game with you both at the same time. Also, something about how Ari was forced into a claim D2 on the game we three played together (I remember a sloppy hammer but can't recall how the rest of the arguments about Ari went).

Just skimmed over the rest of the posts. I see what Ginko is saying about West's question to Ari's and agree with the feeling he got out of it.

[West9]

I think my frustration with Ginko about this point/my desire to prove that it is something worth considering is starting to interfere with my reading of the rest of the game. So I put it all in this spoiler.

Spoiler:

This doesn't explain why you ignored it.

Don't really see how I'm ignoring your response? Unless you mean I'm not analyzing your response as a whole or something?

I'm frustrated that I keep having to argue the moderate importance of this point to you, and that you seem to be unwilling to even consider moving past "he was joking." I'd expect at least one "well, even if he was serious..." from you by now. That's why it feels like you're ignoring it.

And, of course, you're still ignoring that he straight out says "I was making a point that [West's] logic was flawed."

I was making a point that his logic was flawed, but I also was

definitely still joking around

.

I feel like the bolded is a pretty important distinction that you're blatantly ignoring.

"Also, hydra guys (I forgot the name of your amalgamation), sup with the easy vote on me?What if I were town, making West a scummy bastard!?Also, two versions of scum in this game. In theory we could both be evil. Why side with him against me?"

Are you still joking around here or did you actually think the reasoning for my vote on you was 100% literal?

No, I wasn't taking the vote literally. I was making a point that his logic was flawed, but I also was definitely still joking around.

^This post has always read to me as "though I'm still in a jokey mood, the point about West's logic is a legitimate point that I want you to respond to."

Fuck that shit, RVS/joking period ended at post 41. Ari was continuing his "we could both be scum" argument at 62, while he was making the non-RVS argument of "Orci isn't doing anything."

Yeah because you egged him on about it here:

Also, he still hasn't disproved my initial logic.

^His response to me "egging him on" would have been the perfect place for him to say "i was joking." But he doesn't do that, he simply made the point again (which still reads to me as a real point he was trying to make, along with the fact that he's still never referred to that point as a joke)

Regarding his meta, that's one of the points of this. scumAri trying to emphasize the possibility of a situation where he and I could be on separate teams but both be scum makes complete sense to me after the last D2 game.

Can you explain this more clearly?

This is hard to explain without me sounding like a complete asshole. Basically, I was a confirmed town leader with a power role for most of the last D2 game, and I caused a lot of havoc for Ari's scumteam. We're in a situation now where simply killing several scum isn't enough to confirm someone as town, which is something that I'd expect Ari to try to emphasize if he were scum in order to avoid a similar situation to last game. This is in addition to what I view as a sort of inherent scuminess in saying "well hey, we could BOTH be evil!"

OKAY. SO. Movin on.

(my internet connection sucks, sorry about that double post)
Screw you Ari, I'm pretty sure this is actually you being honest (alingment non-indicative anyways I'd say) but fuck that AtE >.<

I agree with this. But what's still unclear to me is why Ari reacted to Orci in the first place.

People voting for Ari:
West: What is your current thoughts on Ari? Your vote started as a joke, then you later justified it by analyzing his wording (post 102). You also suggested an Ari&myself team, can you elaborate on this more if you still think so. (we are voting for each other as of this post). For everyone else I think West is flying under the radar a bit. Not based on the number of posts but the substance. Most posts have to do with Ari. I'm leaning slightly towards nontown on West atm.

I don't like Ari's pattern of justifying what he does by saying that he "generates conversation." I wanna wait until I hear about this scumread he apparently has on you before looking at a Ari/Metal connection again.

I also wanna hear about this "Orc and Acryon on the same team" thing that Metal's got going.

This Ari wagon kinda sucks. Farside's pretty cool though.

Random thought: I dont think has Ari talked about why he choose Metal as his reaction test vote. That'd be cool.
On a whole, though, I get Ari has better points against Lal than Lal has against Ari. Sooooo there's that.

The best vote in the game is farside's based on 166, but I can't agree with it because I can totally see Ari being more willing to put up with our shit than a stranger's. The testing the waters thing is a bit hard to believe though.

[exasperated sigh]

The we both could be evil I note this was the first but not the only time he posses a comment like this.
Yup here it iswhich tells me he is not joking

how come this is part of the best vote of the game but when i awkwardly make this point it's super scummy
gink ur killing me

I still like Lyserg.

@West

: Can you read me a Ginko?

He frustrates and confuses me. This could just be me being frustrated and confused about the one thing, though. I feel like he either feels the same way about me, or is fucking with me (and the fact that Cheet seems to be the only one with anything to say about me doesn't help me figure that out). I'd also like to know how much of his guttownread on Ari is based on his theory that I'm baiting him.

Metal's read of Ari's towngame is weird.

So basically Ari's wagon still sucks but I don't like the Lalendra one enough to put it at L-1

I've noticed that I tend to focus on people that I know. I'll look at Orc/Farside/Acyron etc. in my next post.

[West9]

^His response to me "egging him on" (62) would have been the perfect place for him to say "i was joking." But he doesn't do that, he simply made the point again (which still reads to me as a real point he was trying to make, along with the fact that he's still never referred to that point as a joke)

[West9]

^fixed link

[farside22]

Thanks west!
Sorry I'm not as Wally as you guys, it is easier to link and quote stuff on the computer and I phone post a lot.
So I get spammy because of it.

Plus walls don't always get read.

Anyways
I would like ari to explain his scum reads.
Vsye: I'm waiting on you as well to explain why your expectations = glink scum.
Orc: where are your reads at?

[VysePresident]

It's a weak vote, yes. To steal a line from somebody, I feel like they're engaging less than they're capable of. (My understanding being that both have played here

It's not hard yet because I'm not confident in how well I've been reading this game to date. I got ambushed by Life in a moderately annoying way, and it's throwing me off my normal, semi-obsessive style. (I'm aiming to test for my second-degree black belt, and the requirements just got raised, plus I'm going to have to work enough hours to pay for everything) I think I can clear up enough time to give the game the attention it deserves, but if I can't do that within the next couple of days, I'll sub out.

@Ginko - I'd actually like to get your thoughts on Acryon specifically, please. Also, did you ever elaborate on who the 'real suspect' you mentioned earlier was?

@Farside - The Acryon invitation is open to you too.

[VysePresident]

Answering this because it's quick & easy.

@Lyserg - Ah, thanks for letting me know about the link. I missed it while I was skimming. I don't suppose you guys have a way to look at ISO's on your homesite?

So, this is going to be bare bones, but in short, I'm using 'Direction' as sort of a quick, go-to phrase for a few things I tend to find scummy.

Basically, one thing I've noticed is that you can generally figure out a person's goals by reading between the lines just a little. When I refer to Metal's "Lack of direction", what I mean is that I don't feel he's pushing an agenda, or positioning himself to avoid negative attention, or playing opportunistically. I feel like he's legitimately scumhunting, and doesn't really seem to have much in the way of the awareness that scum typically have. That's only so much of a tell in this game, but it feels more like weak Town play at this point. Hence the iffy Town read.

This sort of extends to my take on the majority of the game. I'm not seeing much in the way of an agenda beyond Town play coming from West, Metal, & Lyserg. I'd kinda like to see Orc posting more.

Also, yeah, Town players should definitely also be pushing in directions of their own, but the trick is reading the difference between the two.

Heading to bed now.

[farside22]

Gaye: at the bottom is a thing that says display post by user. You just scroll onto the user.
Also in each players post is the word ISO.

I liked a lot of what acryon has said this game. Plus some of his play reminds me of our last game together.

[farside22]

@vsye: see above ^

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Ok

If I don't post substantially tonight I'll replace or ask for a hydra or smth

[farside22]

I'm going to make a few post in a row.
First up is to Ari

OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.

Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.

I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.

As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.

I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.

This post is something I wanted to see if others agreed was true about Lal.

@Everyone: In #115 I said "I

see

that you were baiting us." not "I

saw

that you were baiting us."
I know it may seem insignificant, but I never claimed I reacted because I knew what he was doing. This was a remark after the fact where I acknowledged what had happened.

I know it's late and I'm tired but I had another question for Ari: what about my play is striking you as "messy?" That's something I haven't heard yet

I was theorizing out loud moreso than accusing. If you, Metal, and Lalendra are scum together, the grouping is being messy about it. You specifically have not been messy. I suppose this was more myself putting an FoS than anything else.Of the three, you're lowest on my scumdar.

Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.

k, what does this mean? I'm open to a conversation about this if you like. Not that I have much to say. Whatever floats your boat though.

I don't believe you knew Orc was testing waters. I pointed out 3 post you made that shows why I think you are BS'ing about knowing better.
Also I have not heard anything about other scum reads with reason's about others.
You have a bit wishy washy from others when asked about your reads.

Ari – as Acryon pointed out in 181, there is something off about his play in this game. The “I posted a vote on metal just to see what would happen because I didn’t have time for a real post” could be legit, but doesn’t ring true. When he finally came back to the game after being away for a bit, he tunneled in on me, West and Metal, without really saying anything about anyone else until later. That could have just been because he was pressed for time. The stuff West said wasn’t particularly vague, so his point about me leaving a scumtrail also didn’t ring true. Seems like he’s just picking out parts of my meta that will implicate me in this, to plant the seed of doubt with everyone, without creating any real solid tie-ins. Also this:

As for the New Years thing, yeah, I remembered that conversation and was somewhat wary of quicklynching when I came into D1. I wanted to test the waters with this crowd though regardless.

It was a fun time! I have no clue if there was something significant I was supposed to remember though...

Reconcile these two statements, if you can.

So, here we go.
I did post the metal vote to get reactions. I didn't have the time for a full post and didn't want to half-ass it, so I set that up. I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted an honest reaction from people. I think you're just bitter that all this has turned on you because of it.
I also was pressed for time, as I have been most of this game, when making that post. I still agree with my read, though I'm most confident on you as scum. If you're not, I will definitely reevaluate things. I'll also probably be lynched D2 if I am wrong. It's a risk, but I feel you're scummy and am just theorizing in case I do take a bullet.
Reconciling the statements is easy. I remembered the conversation specifics when they were brought up. They were in the back of my mind when I started this game. By the time he asked about it, I couldn't think of anything that could be related to this game. I saw where he was going once he stated his point. I mean, that's basically what I said at the time. I don't get what feels off about it, but fill me in if there is anything.

Toss shit my way if you guys like, I'll be here for another hour I think.

[/quote]

If it was a reaction test and you only get one bite and nothing more then it gets just one. It's also the one you have focused on since.
As I said prior I think you are both scum here but from different groups.

[farside22]

Lalendra is up next:

As stated before I was not a fan of this post for medicore reasons for scum reads that are not clear why for example Lyse is a scum read.

We have the vote on Ari this was after talking about mislynching Ari and null read.

Lal post here looks to be just attacking those without taking things said prior
Not sure if that is typical. Emotion is emotion but it was a quick reaction based on other comments I made prior.

I absolutely hate this post. She is not voting for her strongest scum read.
The reason being was in her first post and nothing has changed. I still don't see why what Orc did was scummy and she has yet to really explain it well at all.
Some of the list I do like, which is why I would push Ari over her as a lynch for today.

[prawneater]

Re: Ginko, West9, VysePresident, farside22 - their recent posts feel very town. Maybe I'm too easily swayed by textwalls though.

@Ginko: I don't think I see your point, but I appreciate the effort. At the very least, I don't think you and West are a scumpair.

Here's my list from towniest to scummiest:

farside22
lyserg
west9
vyse
ginko
lalendra
aristophanes
orcinus
acryon
metalcyanide

I dunno where to put YYR yet.

Re: The 3 dudes at the bottom

I've posted my feelings on metalcyanide.

Acryon posts quite a lot, but unlike the other townie posters, his posts don't feel like they're actively hunting for scum. They feel more like "I'll comment on this here", "I'll respond here".

I have a similar feeling about orcinus and I look forward to his next post.

@orcinus/acryon/metalcyanide would you mind posting your town/scum lists?

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

@Vyse: What do you think of Ginko's read on West (of him baiting Ari and such)? (also remember to answer my question about your expectations of Ari when you get the time =P, also also: d2forums only allows the ISO-like search for registered users P= ).

@Farside: I mean, Ari sort of says he didn't realize it was reaction-testing on the same quote you used, and he also said more about that near the top of page 11. Don't have a problem with you still being mad about that, but saying this because your wording seems like if Ari was still trying to act as if he knew what Orc was doing from the beginning.
Also:

I absolutely hate this post. She is not voting for her strongest scum read.
The reason being was in her first post and nothing has changed.

I think that was a mistake of Lal's, she said in the next post to ignore everything previous to the West quote of that post (I'm assuming she copy-pasted her own previous readslist while writing the post and forgot to erase it all or something like that).

ATTN YOUNG:

Spoiler:

Yo, Prawn, thou your latest post is an answer to the Orc question, can you address the rest of this please?

He voted, didn't direct any questions toward Orci, then unvoted one day after.

Hmm... he seemed to demand and explanation from Orci about the random votes thou. Do you read the unvote itself any way in particular? Speaking of Orci: do you have any thoughts on him?

I kinda like Glinko's stuff on Acryon. Btw @Acryon, can you give me your thoughts on Metal?

@West:

So basically Ari's wagon still sucks but I don't like the Lalendra one enough to put it at L-1

Is there something in particular you don't like about the Lal wagon (alternatively: Something in particular you like about Lal that gives her townpoints)?

@Lalendra: You initially mentioned you thought Ari was being typical Ari and that general silliness was mostly just his meta. Later you said West's case helped in swaying you. Besides the Metal-vote: Do you just generally agree with West? Can you walk me through the evolution of your read (like, where did "typical silly Ari" go, for example)?

[Ginko]

Spoiler: Stuff about West/Questions for West about Stuff about West

"though I'm still in a jokey mood, the point about West's logic is a legitimate point that I want you to respond to."

But he didn't follow up on it or give any indication that he actually wanted us to answer him in his response to us, which makes the last part of your point feel forced. This is getting really semantic.
zzzz.

I'd expect at least one "well, even if he was serious..." from you by now.

Definitely gonna need to run this by me again. No idea what this means.

We're in a situation now where simply killing several scum isn't enough to confirm someone as town, which is something that I'd expect Ari to try to emphasize if he were scum in order to avoid a similar situation to last game.

So.. if I'm reading this right, you think Ari was trying to discredit you that early in the game based on a fear of you potentially being conftowned?

^His response to me "egging him on" would have been the perfect place for him to say "i was joking." But he doesn't do that, he simply made the point again (which still reads to me as a real point he was trying to make, along with the fact that he's still never referred to that point as a joke)

I feel like arguing this isn't going to be productive, so I'll just say this:
The fact that you're so easily confbiasing things as coming from a scumPOV with Aristophanes without you taking any kind of consideration as to his MO generally being a little unorthodox feels dishonest. There are a lot of things that you're claiming are really likely to be scummotivated on his part that read null to me knowing Ari's meta and I really don't like that. You never prod him directly about whether said point was a joke or not, instead you run with that assumption and yeah it could be impatience, but it just doesn't read that way to me.

If you want to respond to me here, go ahead, but I'm probably going to just carry my opinion on this forward and see what I think about the rest of your play from here. I'd rather see you focus on other things so I can sort more of your play as a whole and I feel like we're only going to talk in circles here and nobody's going to prove anything to anyone else in the game.

I'd also like to know how much of his guttownread on Ari is based on his theory that I'm baiting him.

I'm not much convinced by the reasons people are pushing on him and I've liked 1-2 things he said in his last few posts.

So basically Ari's wagon still sucks

Why does the Ari wagon suck?

@Vyse

, I'd like you to meet my friend the bottom half of post #297
Also, West was my original top secret suspicion.

I liked a lot of what acryon has said this game. Plus some of his play reminds me of our last game together.

Can you go into detail on this? Where and what in his play reminds you of his towngame?
Also,

@farside

, can you please give me your thoughts on West?

[Ginko]

Double post for signature. Last post was me.

-

C

h

e

e

t

o

r

y

6

[Ginko]

Will make an active effort to try and read the Lalendra wagon tomorrow.
-Cheetory6

[VysePresident]

So, I tried to do a hard reset on my reads, and ended up spending the whole night looking over the darn thread off and on. I'm going to make this quick, and I'll expand in the morning, particularly in regards to Acryon.

@D2'ers - Can I get one of you guys to link me to a TownAri game & a Scum one? I just want to skim through them to get a better feel for his thought process.

@Farside - I'd really like why you're Townreading Acryon? I'm actually really disliking what I'm seeing from him, and it's not just 121. (Thoughts on that being appreciated.) Oh, and I appreciate you pointing me to the ISO button, but I was actually asking about the D2 forum. Sorry for the confusion.

-I'm liking Ginko a little better on reread. I made a few assumptions based on skimreading and some early impressions, but I actually like some of the things they've said recently. :/ Call this Null, maybe leaning Town. Not really seeing the West case at this point, though.

VOTE: Acryon

Catch you guys in the morning.

[farside22]

@Vyse: What do you think of Ginko's read on West (of him baiting Ari and such)? (also remember to answer my question about your expectations of Ari when you get the time =P, also also: d2forums only allows the ISO-like search for registered users P= ).

@Farside: I mean, Ari sort of says he didn't realize it was reaction-testing on the same quote you used, and he also said more about that near the top of page 11. Don't have a problem with you still being mad about that, but saying this because your wording seems like if Ari was still trying to act as if he knew what Orc was doing from the beginning.
Also:

I absolutely hate this post. She is not voting for her strongest scum read.
The reason being was in her first post and nothing has changed.

I think that was a mistake of Lal's, she said in the next post to ignore everything previous to the West quote of that post (I'm assuming she copy-pasted her own previous readslist while writing the post and forgot to erase it all or something like that).

ATTN YOUNG:

Spoiler:

Yo, Prawn, thou your latest post is an answer to the Orc question, can you address the rest of this please?

He voted, didn't direct any questions toward Orci, then unvoted one day after.

Hmm... he seemed to demand and explanation from Orci about the random votes thou. Do you read the unvote itself any way in particular? Speaking of Orci: do you have any thoughts on him?

I kinda like Glinko's stuff on Acryon. Btw @Acryon, can you give me your thoughts on Metal?

@West:

So basically Ari's wagon still sucks but I don't like the Lalendra one enough to put it at L-1

Is there something in particular you don't like about the Lal wagon (alternatively: Something in particular you like about Lal that gives her townpoints)?

@Lalendra: You initially mentioned you thought Ari was being typical Ari and that general silliness was mostly just his meta. Later you said West's case helped in swaying you. Besides the Metal-vote: Do you just generally agree with West? Can you walk me through the evolution of your read (like, where did "typical silly Ari" go, for example)?

Ari sort of waffled on not knowing. Mostly because he was caught.
Lal's read list is completely different wording then her first read list and has quotes she never used before.
Not sure what happened there.

[acryon]

Acryon

:
i) Do you consider yourself to be a player who has slow starts in general?

It completely depends. How easy people are to read, how active the thread is, how available I am to post, etc.

ii) I'm pretty shrug with most of his play up until his 22nd post at which point he starts to focus really hard on Lalendra. This feels kinda inconsistent with his play prior in this game. He becomes very focused on asking Lalendra questions and making points as to why she's scummy, whereas he was kind of more disinterested in pushing for Aristophanes or asking him questions. I feel like there's a very distinct difference in playstyle being taken here and it doesn't even make much sense from a perspective of "I think that Aristophanes is less scummy than Lalendra", because his reasoning when he unvotes is that he wants to avoid a quickhammer.
Kind of gives me the impression that Ari or Lalendra might be a scummate of his [more likely Lalendra just from some other interactions] or that he might have been forcing his scumread on Aristophanes and felt uncomfortable pushing it.

I know this isn't a question to me, but I feel like I should comment on it anyway. To make it perfectly clear, I think one of Ari and Lal is scum and the other is a werewolf. Ari already had plenty of traction, so it makes way more sense for me to try and work out this Lal read, especially since we were only about halfway through the day when Ari got up to L-1. The questioning and pressure on Lal would kind of lose its power if we just let the Ari lynch go through immediately and I tried to push Lal tomorrow. Nevermind the fact that I could die and would have no chance to.

iv)

Knowing she has only played one game on their site, do your feelings change?

Why is this a valuable question for you to be asking farside given your scumread on Lal? Run me through the thought process here.

I thought this was very clear. Her lack of experience obviously made me question my scum-read on her slightly, so I asked farside (someone who I think is town) what it did to her read of Lal.
Getting a second opinion from someone who I think is very likely town helps me sort of my read. This seems like pretty standard play, so it's odd to me that this strikes you as off.

Acryon posts quite a lot, but unlike the other townie posters, his posts don't feel like they're actively hunting for scum. They feel more like "I'll comment on this here", "I'll respond here".
@orcinus/acryon/metalcyanide would you mind posting your town/scum lists?

This is a little weird because I feel like I was the primary person pushing and outing Lal.

Here is the lsit from Town to scum:

Farside
Orc
YYR
Prawn
Ginko
Metal
West
Vyse
Lyserg
Ari
Lal

Farside and Orc are both quite a bit stronger town-reads than the rest, and Ari and Lal are both quite a bit stronger scum-reads than the rest.

Someone asked what I thought of metal. I'm pretty torn on him. I think there is a pretty close to equal chance that he is scum vs town saying some silly things, although if I had to pick I would say town.

[acryon]

--I'll analyze the Lalandra case & wagon in the morning. I'm literally falling asleep at my computer right now.

Can we get a follow up here?

Also interested to see what Ginko makes of it. It's shocking to me that people haven't commented on it directly, as it's pretty hot.

[Ginko]

Also interested to see what Ginko makes of it. It's shocking to me that people haven't commented on it directly, as it's pretty hot.

It's a rather dense case. I think I have somewhere around like an entire page of point form notes that I need to sift through for it? q.q

@Acryon

, weh. Young and prawn are your #3 and #4 slots for town? Why? Young's only made a naked vote and then disappeared and you literally just said this about prawn:

This is a little weird because I feel like I was the primary person pushing and outing Lal.

If he's weird, why is he so far up your list?
'Splain that shit pls.

Also, I just don't like the difference in pushing for Lal/Ari while voting for them and not because of you switching or anything like that. Your questioning/push of Aristophanes was weak, while your push/questioning for Lal is much stronger.

I thought this was very clear. Her lack of experience obviously made me question my scum-read on her slightly, so I asked farside (someone who I think is town) what it did to her read of Lal.
Getting a second opinion from someone who I think is very likely town helps me sort of my read. This seems like pretty standard play, so it's odd to me that this strikes you as off.

I think your question stood out to me because it looked like you were trying to softpush farside into thinking Lal is town, which just seemed really strange. Makes a little more sense now with your townread on farside.

-Cheetory6