Mini 460 - Werewolves! Game over.

[Off the Mark]

Yes, I do think he is scum, but I personally like to see what everyone else has to say before placing a definitive vote.

Worrying about what everyone else thinks about your vote is pretty scummy, AISleet. I like to seek other's opinions sometimes too, but not when I am convinced someone is scum.

[xyzzy]

oh and smart one its moron dumbass.

http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-02 ... morans.jpg

Perhaps this little back-and-forth debate between AS and DS is distancing?

[Shanba]

Ectomancer replaces XReyoX, effective NOW (I just felt like saying that). Welcome him to the game

[Ectomancer]

Howdy all! I'll be catching up as quick as I can. For now

unvote

so I dont have to worry about where it is and whether it should be there as things start moving. Also, if there is anything that needs my comments specifically, please point it out and I'll make sure to include it in my catch up post.

[xyzzy]

'Ello.

What do you think of schis's play, so far? Is he scum?

[Ectomancer]

Alrighty. 10 pages and several ways I could approach this. I decided to just start reading and jot down notes as I go. This is basically a timeline of significant events.

xyzzy - forcing claims on page 1 - I dont buy the reasoning.
AlSleet - justifying exposing roles for start of game is ok with him, but later backs off supporting forcing claims.
xReyox - attacks the idea of forcing claims - I agree with that
Bethelmark jumps on xxyzzy in cozy scum position with an fos
Korran - New? touchy - could be scum, but watch for who tries to manipulate him. - Theopor eventually does by a mild attack, and then a back off. A good way to get a newbie town feeling better about you.
Panzer - eventually attacks xyzzy, but felt like after momentum had been established.
Morik - tosses in a late "me too" against forcing role claims
xyzzy & schis - jump on Panzer for "letting the newbie slide" Schis shows he is a newbie or oblivious by his comment
Off The mark - was attacked early, defended well. Basically called BS where BS was to be found.
K-scope - makes a good case against schis
AlSleet - jumps on the Schis wagon in confortable scum position.
K-Scope agrees with my assessment of Al's move
OTM attacks K-Scope randomly, why?
Panzer wants to know why too
Schism starts OMGUS'ing
Korran votes Schis- newbie form, but the reason makes sense
Schism crumples under pressure
Theopor is back pressuring another newbie, this time after Schis to claim, backs off when he does, but for some odd reason, keeps

emphasizing

on the role claim itself.
xyzzy - attacks (rightfully) AlSheet for supporting a Schis lynch, even if Schis is town.
Theopr and OTM seem to finally realize Schis is a newbie and probably not scum.
Schis attacks K-scope, Scope defends well.
Korran still not saying much, even when posting
K-scope abandons the Schis wagon (wagon drying up?)
Panzer slips off Schis wagon
OTM buddies up to K-scope in order to jump on the newfound AlSleet wagon.

Panzer goes on major offensive against Schis.
Q-man inactive most of the game, comes back, adds to Al's wagon and jumps on
DeathSauce arrives and joins the Al wagon as well.

Im not going to join the Al wagon just yet. Once I can go back and analyze my first thoughts on those plays, I'll see if the case on him really needs to move, or if we need to look at some manipulators.

[AlSleet]

Yes, I do think he is scum, but I personally like to see what everyone else has to say before placing a definitive vote.

Worrying about what everyone else thinks about your vote is pretty scummy, AISleet. I like to seek other's opinions sometimes too, but not when I am convinced someone is scum.

I'm not worried about what people think, it's just nice to take everyone else's analysis into account before trying to lynch someone. It has nothing to do with my personal image or whatever.

[schismatized]

for the record, i think still think panzer is the play here lol. he has pulled the wool over the towns eyes so well my votes not gonna change until someone else says something really really scummy. also i think we need a deadline on the game. its getting a bit slow/boring.

[Off the Mark]

OTM attacks K-Scope randomly, why?

I assume you are referring to post 91 - it was a valid observation at the time. Kscope had FOS'd Panzer for being "too random" and me for being "FOS happy". These are lousy reasons. (and not even true, in my case - I voted xyzzy early because I saw some scumminess and that's where my suspicion stayed for a while - still quite suspicious of him, actually but I think AISleet is the better lynch. They could easily both be scum.)

Also, I thought his first attack of AISleet (for having the same suspicions as Kscope) was uncalled for, but with AISleet's later behavior, now I think maybe he was on the right track.

OTM buddies up to K-scope in order to jump on the newfound AlSleet wagon.

OK if that's the way you want to see it, fine. I agreed with Kscope's suspicion of AISleet. I was only the 2nd person to vote him I think, hardly a bandwagon. But think what you want.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, I've done a read of what I've missed. I've also took an extra look on Alsleet again, and I have to admit that his behaviour doesn't look as scummy as I first had in mind. Statements from him like "Town or no town, I'm glad to see a detriment like you go." towards schiz strike me scummy, but on the other hand logical, because schis was acting like a jerk. Also the fact that he bassicly joined the crowd mostly, but with his own prepared arguments after someone else stated them strike me scummy, but I think, after a reread, I

Unvote

and need to read the thread again, when i got time, especially closer looks towards OTM and Panzer.

[schismatized]

while your at it, could you change your avatar? those eyes bug the hell out of me. also, paner could you give me your thougts on kscope?

[theopor_COD]

Hello Ecto. As for attacking the newbies - they've been the most scummy, it's the natural thing to do unfortunately.

My analysis on Schis will appear later today sometime. For now nothing's changed my mind with regard Alsleet. However I'm not for rushing the lynch so I'm keeping an eye on preceedings.

[DeathSauce]

also i think we need a deadline on the game. its getting a bit slow/boring

You just got 2 completely new players into a game with almost 300 posts, give us a little time! Also, deadlines are usually not a great help for the town, in my (limited) experience.

[PJ.]

I think K-scope is solid.

As for the new guys, welcome to the game. DS, i don't think after making an attack on someone you can say no to a deadline for the reason of having new players. Ecto can get away with that, I don't believe you can. I don't agree with a deadline either. So far I agree with ecto's notes.

On AlSleet, I haven't really noticed his play due to him wanting to lynch Schis. I will have to reread and/or look at his post in isolation.

[Off the Mark]

DS, i don't think after making an attack on someone you can say no to a deadline for the reason of having new players.

Huh?? Can you expand on this? We don't want a deadline right now, I agree with DS 100%. We need more discussion, especially with the new players.

[Ectomancer]

[quote="Off the Mark"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I'm getting the feeling this 'wagon is more running towards an ignorant townie then towards a scumlynch. Even though I'd feel happy with schis dead (in general), I don't think it's the way to play. Ergo,

Unvote

I think it's time to vote my secondary suspicion, who seemed to be all to happy to jump on the wagon just after I made my case.

Vote: AlSleet

.
[/quote]

Man, I hate when this happens. A player I am suspicious of suddenly posts something extremely reasonable and pro-town. I think I was wrong about Kaleidoscope.

Reading over the bandwagon again, AISleet as scum makes a lot of sense. He jumped on the bandwagon once it had a lot of momentum and he used the argument, "Even if he's town, he's hurting us and therefore he must die." I've seen this used frequently by scum because it allows them to immediately distance themselves from their own vote. Then when the innocent townie is lynched they can claim, "Well I admitted he was probably innocent, but he was hurting us."

I don't like that logic at all. We need to keep townies alive at all costs.

vote: AISleet

[/quote]

I bolded the part that stood out for me OTM. Joining the wagon wasnt an issue really, AlSleet certainly deserved some voting at that point. For me somehow, doing an analysis and stating that you think someone is town is alignment null, but when phrased as you did, it rubs me the wrong way. It felt too "friendly".
As I said, these are first impressions of a suspicious mind.

[PJ.]

I simply didn't like his reason for why he requested no deadline, but I fully agree that we should not have a deadline, and I said this originally in the post. You missed it.

[Off the Mark]

I bolded the part that stood out for me OTM. Joining the wagon wasnt an issue really, AlSleet certainly deserved some voting at that point. For me somehow, doing an analysis and stating that you think someone is town is alignment null, but when phrased as you did, it rubs me the wrong way. It felt too "friendly".
As I said, these are first impressions of a suspicious mind.

Fair enough, I just call 'em as I see 'em. I meant it more as "jokey" than "friendly". I guess I don't worry about looking suspicious much because only scum have real reason to worry about that, it seems to me.

If I am suspected, then the bandwagon gives us another chance to get info and that is good.

[Korran]

hey ecto

[xyzzy]

OTM, could you explain what you man be "jokey"? Do you think it's okay to say things that aren't serious if it's not obvious?

[Off the Mark]

When I say "jokey" it does not mean that I meant the opposite of what I said. I really did mean it. I was just making fun of my own reversing of suspicion on him, that's all.

[Ectomancer]

When I say "jokey" it does not mean that I meant the opposite of what I said. I really did mean it. I was just making fun of my own reversing of suspicion on him, that's all.

I can accept that answer, but I do look for motivation in anything. How you say something when taking an action in game is as important as the action itself to me. The way you phrased it as a joke looked like a friendly overture towards K-Scope. Sort of a "Hey, whatya know, we're on the same side after all" statement.

Hey Korran. Say stuff. Ask questions if nothing else. It will help you get more involved in the game.

for the record, i think still think panzer is the play here lol. he has pulled the wool over the towns eyes so well my votes not gonna change until someone else says something really really scummy. also i think we need a deadline on the game. its getting a bit slow/boring.

For the record, never ask for a deadline. It hurts the town. This statement is so fundamental that even scum wont ask for a deadline....or will they?

[schismatized]

for the record, i think still think panzer is the play here lol. he has pulled the wool over the towns eyes so well my votes not gonna change until someone else says something really really scummy. also i think we need a deadline on the game. its getting a bit slow/boring.

For the record, never ask for a deadline. It hurts the town. This statement is so fundamental that even scum wont ask for a deadline....or will they?

hope this didnt take long to think about...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, I've done a read on OTM and all his posts are quite good aside from his one post directly after I unvoted schis and voted alsleet. From my point of view, I could see schis and OTM on the same scum team if they are scum, but I must admit OTM's post doesn't alarm a scumbell to me.

Onto a panzer reread...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Panzer

nothing interesting until:

K-scope, early in the game it is common for people to be on similar wave lengths. I found my self think along very similar lines as you but you simply posted first.

Defense of Alsleet is noted.

Also:

I don't know. I like to give new players the benefit of the doubt.

To end my PBPA of a guy that has made 46 post and only 1 being protown in any regard and none being all that logical, I will

Vote:Schism

Defense at a later date.

After his debate with schis, it seems he threw that benefit away after the "you attack me, i'm town, so you're scum and need to die"

Then:

I'm gonna give each active semi-active player a list of people i want them to do a brief analysis of.

Theo- Al and Schis
Schis - OTM and You have already given one on me
Xyzzy - Alsleet and Qman
Qman - Xyzzy and B-Mark
Bethelmark - Theo and K-Scope
K-scope - OTM and Alsleet
Korran - Xyzzy and Theo
Al Sleet - OTM and Schis
OTM - Myself and Schism

Anyone noticing the lack of Panzer in this post? OTM is listed 3 times and Panzer 0 times, except from schis, who already did it before this post.

I can't really say that Panzer screams scum, but I would like some more input about what I've quoted above.