Mini 1636: Mafialand Mayhem! - [Game Over]

[Luca Blight]

Not this time, Anen.

VOTE: evilpacman18

His evilness must be stopped.

[Luca Blight]

(..) Would you be willing to give a rough estimate of how many years you've been playing? (..)

Do you, perhaps, have any slight reads on anyone as of yet? Maybe you have a bit of insider knowledge on someone's meta here?

(..) However, my memory on the details is foggy. As time wears on the memory fades ever so slightly.

you can call me Lapsa88

vote on Aneninen because of fluff

vote on Aeronaut because of doubling on you

zero insider knowledge

thing in common - can't remember losing my memory

I find it ironic how Lapsa voted Anen for posting fluff, given Lapsa have posted more fluff than everyone else combined so far.

Also, the example of fluff you gave as your reasoning for voting Anen came after your vote, so clearly you saying that wasn't genuine.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lapsa

[Luca Blight]

Also, the example of fluff you gave as your reasoning for voting Anen came after your vote, so clearly you saying that wasn't genuine.

but I never said that's my reasoning for voting Anen

This suggests different....

vote on Aneninen because of fluff

[Luca Blight]

Luca, may I please have your input on Lapsa's current behavior?

I'm still trying to work it out, what do you make of it?

This is my third game, so no idea what my strengths are.

Lapsa is probably town.

As of right now, I'd probably wagon Luca, Wake, or Anen. Wake being the weakest vote of the three.

Is everyone here yet?

'Probably Town'? That's quite strong. Based on what, exactly?

Why would you wagon me, Wake or Anen?

Ollie isn't here yet.

[Luca Blight]

I mean, its a page 5 probtown so obviously you should just clear him until endgame.

So what is a page five probtown, then? Are you basically saying it is just a throwaway comment by yourself with no substance behind it? What did you base your 'probtown' read on?

bad vote, focusing on irrelevant stuff, looking for things to talk about that aren't relevant to the game.

You're scumreading me, Wake and Anen for 'focusing on irrelevant stuff' and posting things that 'aren't relevant to the game', but say Laspa is 'probtown' despite the fact he has done this more than anyone?

What you're saying isn't making sense.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: KatieB

[Luca Blight]

cool. how does that make me scum?

How about you respond to what I said.

[Luca Blight]

KatieB has seen Karmadog's post where he said 'Lapsa seems too ballsy/coy to be scum', and is trying to replicate such behaviour.

[Luca Blight]

You can't explain your 'probtown' read on Lapsa.

You devalued the 'probtown' read by labeling it a 'page five probtown' read.

You scumread three players for talking about irrelevant things, when your 'probtown' read has done this far more than anyone.

You keep avoiding my questions and instead try and discredit and dismiss everything I say.

[Luca Blight]

And you still haven't explained why I'm scum.

...

You can't explain your 'probtown' read on Lapsa.

You devalued the 'probtown' read by labeling it a 'page five probtown' read.

You scumread three players for talking about irrelevant things, when your 'probtown' read has done this far more than anyone.

You keep avoiding my questions and instead try and discredit and dismiss everything I say.

You're the one calling me 'badposting scum' but haven't given a single valid reason as to why, so you can add hypocrisy to the increasing list of scumminess.

[Luca Blight]

For clarity, I'm scumreading Luca first because of his terrible vote on Lapsa

Terrible how?

then his terrible OMGUS on me.

Clearly not OMGUS by any stretch.

[Luca Blight]

Oh I must have misused the word. What's it called when someone is suspicious of you based only on the fact that you're suspicious of them?

You're deliberately misrepping me.

[Luca Blight]

Really? Which of your 'reasons' is indicative of scum and why?

You acknowledge the reasons when it suits, otherwise label it OMGUS.

I will probably elaborate on this later, but I have said enough for now. I want to hear others thoughts instead of it being just us bickering in this thread.

[Luca Blight]

Anen, I think what you missed was that Lapsa gave reasoning for his page 1 vote for you in 37 - he said he voted you based on fluff, but the example he gave came after his vote on you.

[Luca Blight]

but the example he gave came after his vote on you.

*yawn*

VOTE: Luca Blight

I only reiterated what I said earlier, which was factual....

[Luca Blight]

Second Runner Up Scum Award - Luca Blight
Think this guy has ALOT of bullshit under his hood and see this cat fight between Luca and Katie as a scum team. Post 98 is a scummy post to me at this moment. The tone and the last sentence is where I feel the partnership shows. The fact that he calls out that kaite trying to discredit and dismiss everything I say seem to me like a potential tip off to show that the current tatic is working and to continue on with it.

This makes no sense.

98 is not scummy at all if you take it in the context given; as a response to 96.

I don't get your last sentence at all - I don't see how you could interpret me saying she was discrediting me and being dismissive (which she was) as a scumteam tactic. In which way was it working? If me and Katie were scum partners, why would I want her to continue acting scummy? That doesn't make sense.

[Luca Blight]

I mean, he voted Lapsa for 'fluffposting more than Anen' and 'poorly justifying his vote on Anen' which happened before Anen had even posted, and was pretty clearly a RVS vote. Even if Lapsa had done any of the things Luca was talking about, none of them would be alignment indicative.

No, Lapsa's vote on Anen

WASN'T

an RVS vote - how many times do I have to keep saying this? He said in 37 that he voted Anen 'because of fluff' - linking it to a specific example, which occurred after said vote.

Why are they not potentially alignment-indicative? You use that to write off any argument. What in your opinion is alignment-indicative? How do you plan to find scum this game when you automatically write anything that doesn't suit your agenda off as 'not alignment indicative'?

This is what I was talking about when I said she was being dismissive.

He's scumreading me for calling Lapsa probtown, but dollars to doughnuts if I hadn't clarified that my feelings are as strong as p5 allows, he'd be scumreading me for having feelings too strong for day 1.

Another blatant misrep. Is that alignment-indactive? Continually misrepping someone to suit your argument?

I scumread you (partly) because you couldn't justify your 'probtown' read, and later devalued it when questioned as a 'page 5 probtown read' - which I guess isn't much of a 'probtown' read at all, is it?

He's scumreading me for not hopping to answer him (which is not indicative of scum), scumreading me for a misunderstanding of my feelings on my suspects (even if his thoughts were accurate, this would not be indicative of scum), for 'not making any sense' (which is not indicative of scum), and for being dismissive of his reasons for scumreading me (which he hasn't yet presented.)

Deliberately avoiding questions can be indicative of alignment - you couldn't justify what you said - if you can't back it up, don't say it, otherwise I will scumread you for it if you keep dodging questions and being dismissive of everything I say.

Not making sense can also be indicative of being scum - because scum have to fabricate reads. For instance - your 'probtown' on Lapsa makes no sense - the only way it might make sense is if you were scum partners, or if you were scum and knew Lapsa was therefore Town.

Pretty obviously scum looking for a day1 mislynch that involves a lot of words but not reasons. As soon as everyone has posted, I'd be glad to turbolynch him.

p-edit: but not having any reasons for scumreading me totally doesn't make his vote OMGUS. Totally.

You can see the reasons, you just choose to ignore them when it suits you, and then dismiss them when that suits you.

I'm just looking over things more now, but I'm still happy with my Katie vote currently.

[Luca Blight]

and taking actions out of context.

Luca did the same thing, worse. I still think he's a better vote.

That is just a lie - where have I ever taken anything out of context this game?

[Luca Blight]

@ ckd- you're still on your randomvote for ollie. You might be pushing him for not posting, but I dont like the push and I dont see how it's relevant.

soooo...if you know where/why my vote is, why are you asking if everyone is here?

Just because you've voted someone doesn't mean they've posted, or are involved in the game yet. I'm not a fan of Day1 lurker pushes before the target has had a chance to engage in the game because it is possible if not probable that the notposting slot just flakes, wasting time and effort.

These posts seem odd, considering you are still sitting on your RVS vote yourself....

You seem to be scumreading me pretty strongly as well, yet are not voting me. You say you want me 'turbolynched' - so are you just waiting for someone else to start it off before you jump on?

[Luca Blight]

Evilpacman, are you reading a different game to me?

You think Lapsa has "actually answered most things he's asked"? That is a very weird reason to townread someone, given they have avoided more questions than anyone this game!

In what possible way do I look 'way scummier' than Katie in the page 4 exchange?

[Luca Blight]

also for those who are curious as to why I have issues with lurkers (who are posting else where) check out the last game I was in...it is current, so cant say more than that. might shed some light.

This comes across a little self-conscious...it's pretty obvious why lurkers are bad, so I don't see why he feels the need to justify this view. Pushes on someone who hasn't posted at all, even if they have posted elsewhere, are pretty pointless though.

Evilpacman, are you reading a different game to me?

You think Lapsa has "actually answered most things he's asked"? That is a very weird reason to townread someone, given they have avoided more questions than anyone this game!

In what possible way do I look 'way scummier' than Katie in the page 4 exchange?

Pacman still needs to answer this.

anen's big posts look town to me
but admittedly any meta there is based on [ongoing]

could go both ways on aero
notice how he voted monkey while calling monkey opportunist?

minor townread on kate and minor scumread on monkey
theres been to much of that reently so i dont want to make more rn

I'm curious as to your townread of Katie, as the only thing you have posted about her so far has been negative.

[Luca Blight]

Tackling some of Katie's quote wall post...

Luca was gonna scumread me no matter what I said. And I felt there was still potential for discussion there, plus I wanted to see if anyone agreed with me.

This is just complete bollocks. Why would you assume I would scumread you whatever you said? If you gave a valid answer I would have given due credit, but it never came, and you use this to justify completely dissmising everything I say?

Whyttyfyck?
Luca did not OMGUS you.

Yes he did. I expressed suspicions of him. He voted me, with no reasoning as to why I'm scum.

I gave plenty of reasons as to why you were scummy, and you refused to answer them at the time, and you refuse to acknowledge them now.

My vote was not OMGUS, you are fucking kidding yourself.

No, Lapsa's vote on Anen

WASN'T

an RVS vote - how many times do I have to keep saying this? He said in 37 that he voted Anen 'because of fluff' - linking it to a specific example, which occurred after said vote.

His vote. For Anen. Was the. Fifth real. Post in. The thread.

...Are you still trying to deny what is clearly in front of you?

(..) Would you be willing to give a rough estimate of how many years you've been playing? (..)

Do you, perhaps, have any slight reads on anyone as of yet? Maybe you have a bit of insider knowledge on someone's meta here?

(..) However, my memory on the details is foggy. As time wears on the memory fades ever so slightly.

you can call me Lapsa88

vote on Aneninen because of fluff

vote on Aeronaut because of doubling on you

zero insider knowledge

thing in common - can't remember losing my memory

FUCKING READ IT.

and taking actions out of context.

Luca did the same thing, worse. I still think he's a better vote.

That is just a lie - where have I ever taken anything out of context this game?

your interpretation of Lapsa's vote. your post 95, and suggesting in the post where you voted me that my townread on Lapsa should somehow be influenced by my read on anen and wake. your 219. All of those are robbing events of context.

1) I interpreted Lapsa's post in the context it was given - he provided the context himself by specifically saying the reason for voting Anen, and the specific example on which he based his vote. To say I am taking that out of context, you are either lying or are severely mistaken.

2) My post 95 took nothing out of context - it was an observation that could prove correct or incorrect.

It was actually your 96 that was taking MY argument out of context.

3) I actually said it made no sense for you to be scumreading three players for 'focusing on irrelevant things' while townreading another player who has done this more than anyone. Another misrep!

4) You say my 219 is taking things out of context, yet dodge the points raised in this post? They were legitimate points, and you have ignored them like you ignore everything!

I'm just about ready to vote park myself on this slot. You are either scum or terrible, terrible town.

[Luca Blight]

I was answering for Katie.

The (3) - Katie said I was taking things out of context by suggesting her townread of Lapsa 'should be influenced' by her read on Anen and Wake, when really this is taking what I said out of context, because what I really said was that it makes no sense for her to scumread players based entirely on talking about 'irrelevant things', while townreading someone who had done just that in virtually every post he had made up until that point.

[Luca Blight]

If you are interested in voting with me you would vote Katie. She's suddenly absent now that no one is talking about her.

I'll make it easier and

Vote Katie

Wow that is impressive.

Impressively scummy, imo.

Vote: monkeyman

Why is that scummy?

[Luca Blight]

Just some general notes, before I start ISO'ing people.

Monkey's 327 - I don't get this kind of post; it seems cautious, and I don't really see the point in it. I kind of think Town here would just vote one of them, as wagoing isn't always about the final lynch, but about pressurising your scum targets and getting information, so this post is useless, and it looks as though he is making either Lapsa or Katie easily wagonable from his point of view, whenever the opportunity should arise.

Monkey's 329 and 331 seem like a more townie mindet, though, so I don't know what to think on him right now. If he was scum he would just be happy Droog was off his back, but he seems genuinelly curious as to his vote switch. Another explanation could be a Lapsa/Monkey scumteam, or just good individual scum play, but most of Monkey's play has not been good if he is scum.

347 - Decent Aeronaut post. I like the point he made about Monkey switching from Droog being scum to Droog being Town.

Monkey - I know you said Droog's play 'improved quickly'. Could you elaborate on that, as Droog's play seems about the same all the way through.

I STILL want Pacman to answer 235.

Pacman is a person of interest for me right now, I will ISO him first.

I want to see a decent Drake catch-up soon, as he has only one meaningful post under his belt all game, and that was suspect in itself.

[Luca Blight]

Pacman

One thing I notice that really stands out about this guy's ISO is that he has barely talked about anyone other than Monkey. His only 'scumhunting' this game has been Monkey - it is an easy option, and I don't like it. He has virtually ignored many of the big players in this thread.

He doesn't participate in RVS himself- instead choosing to question Monkey's question of Anen's vote, over whether it was random or not. Pacman's question was pretty counter-productive, and even if Monkey's question was pretty stupid, why not just let it play out? It feels like he is finding an easy way to settle into the game, as RVS can be awkward for some as Mafia.

230 - I don't get your stance here: you say CKD's two questions to Wake were 'shitty', yet you say CKD should have done more with Wake's answers, and then say the first works well as a trap, so unless I've misunderstood here you appear to be contradicting yourself.

In what way was the first question a trap, and how did Wake fall for it?

232 - I've already pointed out the ridiculous part of this post, which Pacman needs to answer. I would also like Pacman to elaborate on why Wake's 67 needed to take context into consideration, when he was asked a general question, and why this makes him scummy, because Pacman says he scumreads Wake, presumably because of this issue.

You say you are glad Aeronaut recognised CKD's questions as bullshit, but again this doesn't make sense to me - these questions caused you to townread CKD, and scumread Wake, so they couldnt have been that bad?

253, 257 - I'm asking myself what is Pacman trying to achieve with these posts. Droog says Pacman is playing 'peace-maker', but it looks as though he is stifling things, and I'd rather see Monkey v Droog play out here without his interference. These posts feel like an attempt to blend in - they come across as helpful, but really do nothing, apart from make Monkey look bad, which clearly suits Pacman's agenda.

283 - Oh, so basically you were trying to set Monkey up with 253 and 257? A trap, like you accused CKD of setting Wake earlier? Why are you only focusing on Monkey?

374 - He makes sure he puts something about Monkey being right in here, just so it looks like he isn't completely tunneling, which he clearly is, which is apparent when you read his ISO.

Is you 'let's lynch Anen' here a joke? I can't tell, as you have barely spoken about anyone other than Monkey, so I don't know how you feel about him.

378 - And here it comes, the easy vote on the lynchbait he has been tunneling on all game. There was never gonna be any other outcome - Pacman has been building all game for that moment.

I'm getting strong scum feels off of Pacman. I hate Katie B's posting, but I would be willing to compromise here.


P;Edit: You're right, he didn't switch vote. I guess 'direction switch', would have been more appropriate.

[Luca Blight]

Still waiting for Drake's catch-up....you said yesterday you were 'back' (three days after your L/VA finished) so we need to hear something from you soon.

Annoying how an Ollie replacement hasn't been found yet as well.

The next player I'm gonna ISO is Anen.

[Luca Blight]

Anen

Anen is an interesting one, and I feel a genuine case could be made against him.

29 - Seems like a lack of Town interest, at a stage where we should be kicking out of RVS, to encourage more fluff-posting.

As has already been mentioned, plenty of fluff in his posts. Whether or not this means anything will be determined by his meta which I haven't got around to yet.

168 - A padded catch-up, most of it pretty unspectacular. He is fence-sitting in his summary, and perhaps paranoid about not looking Town where he says

"Even if I know that it doesn't sound too town-ish".

I feel like he should have moved off of his RVS vote here - he had reasonable grounds to vote Katie (a vote is always more productive than keeping an RVS vote) but basically undermined everything he said in his last sentence.

200 - Another decent-sized post filled with not a lot. He uses meta to fence-sit on Lapsa. Fence-sits on Aeronaut too, and says some stuff about Wake not being his partner but he and Lapsa could be scum together. It looks as though he is trying to make it look like he is saying something relevant, when really he is doing little.

Why is having pro-town reads early on 'pigeon poop'? Someone can look pro-town early on.

213 - Pretty much everything in this post was pretty pointless, apart from his vote, which was the first decent thing I have seen from Anen. Drake's post was terrible, so easy for Town or scum to pick apart, but it was still a decent vote.

234 - Says Pacman gives him 'Town vibes' - bear in mind for later. I don't see why you would question someone (presumably to judge their response) but in the same post say they give you Town-vibes - it seems counter-intuitive to me.

278 - A bold claim - that Monkey's town meta is very different from his play in this game. You need to elaborate on this, because it's what separates a possibly scummy vote from an acceptable vote.

309, 312 - Why point this out, and not instead lead by example?

316 - More meta-based fence-sitting, this time on KatieB. He is trying to make it look as if he is sorting people, but in reality he is achieving nothing.

366 - Droog is 'obvtown'? That's quite strong, any reason why?

395 - So now you suspect Pacman, when before you said he gave you townvibes? Which is it?

I need to spend some time looking at Anen's meta. I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

[Luca Blight]

Pacman, are you deliberately ignoring me this game?

[Luca Blight]

It isn't L-1 cos lll voted KatieB.

[Luca Blight]

It isn't L-1 cos lll voted KatieB.

I am curious...why correct him?

if everyone was under the impression we were at -1, it might have provided some insight. So what purpose was this post?

1) Why would you assume that everyone else would have missed llll's vote?
2) What insight could we have got if I didn't mention it?
3) Why are you asking such stupid f*cking questions?

Maybe because they are scum buddies, and Luca knows that Illl voting me is good way to get a town lynched.

Are you serious?

[Luca Blight]

It isn't L-1 cos lll voted KatieB.

I am curious...why correct him?

if everyone was under the impression we were at -1, it might have provided some insight. So what purpose was this post?

1) Why would you assume that everyone else would have missed llll's vote?
2) What insight could we have got if I didn't mention it?
3) Why are you asking such stupid f*cking questions?

did you answer the question? what was the purpose of the post?

The purpose was to point out that it wasn't L-1, obviously.

if X thought MM was at -1, and hammered (out of no where) thinking it was indeed the hammer....that would have said a lot.

now quit being a dick, and answer the fucking question.

Why would scum:

a) Do that one day 1, thus incriminating themselves in the process
b) Hammer without checking the vote count first?

At what point would it have been acceptable to point out it isn't actually L-1?

[Luca Blight]

Droog, are you against a KatieB lynch?

[Luca Blight]

The purpose was to point out that it wasn't L-1, obviously.

okay we can take it slow if you need to. What was the purpose of pointing it out?

The purpose of pointing out it wasn't L-1 was that it wasn't L-1.

Incorrect information was put forth and I corrected it.

Why would scum:

a) Do that one day 1, thus incriminating themselves in the process
b) Hammer without checking the vote count first?

At what point would it have been acceptable to point out it isn't actually L-1?

who knows? but you didnt give anybody a chance to do so. but a quick hammer was not the only thing that could have been gleaned from people thinking it was -1.

never? let the mod post the vote count.

What else could have been gleaned from some people wrongly thinking it was L-1?

What if scum realised it wasn't L-1 but noticed some believed it was? Do you think they could have manipulated that to their advantage?

[Luca Blight]

Prod dodge until tonight.

[Luca Blight]

I need to catch up on a few pages, but I definitely prefer a Lapsa lynch to a Monkey one right now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lapsa