Open 27- Bird C9 (Game over!) before 466

[Tarhalindur]

Original Roll String: 1d7

1 7-Sided Dice: (5) = 5

[Tarhalindur]

The dice have spoken.

Random

Vote: Barmacral

[Tarhalindur]

That would be Barmacral.

[Tarhalindur]

Seeing as we have nothing to go on, I guess it's time for a good old-fashioned lurker hunt. I suppose I should... wait... I don't have to unvote, do I? I'm already voting lurker-Barmacral...

Barmacral vote upgraded from random vote to pressure vote.

[Tarhalindur]

If we're going to do nonsensical things in an attempt to get the game moving, we should really make it something mafia-related (like, say, random bandwagoning and lurker hunting). Talking about futbol most assuredly does not help the town find mafia - indeed, such non-game-related discussion actually distracts the town from actually finding mafia.

The correllary here is that talking about a subject unrelated to the game is very good for the scum, since by distracting the townthe scum make it less likely that the town will find and lynch them.

Unvote, Vote: Fernando

[Tarhalindur]

A pressure vote makes sense. It can get a person talking. A random vote though? Who cares? Its part way through page 1, and half of the other people have a random vote on them as well, whats another one gonna do?

A random vote does nothing for the game. Now if you get two or three random votes on you (well, the later ain't so random I suppose) then it starts too build up pressure, as you are actually moving towards a lynch.

But if you disagree so much, instead of just voting me, why don't you explain why you think its so worthwhile?

I will not speak for ryan, but since I agree with what he's saying I'll offer my own thoughts on the matter.

Random voting per se doesn't really matter over the course of the game, so much as the anomalies that show up in the random voting stage. In general,

someone's

will post something that isn't really random and therefore relevant to the game. It can be breadcrumbs (often associated with masons), an early third vote on a player (likely to come from opportunistic scum), a No Lynch vote (reeks of cautious scum), or a refusal to random vote (IMO, effectively the same as a random No Lynch vote).

My personal opinion is that random voting No Lynch is a vote-worthy offense in the early game... and if I consider random voting No Lynch voteworthy in the early game and I consider a refusal to random vote as the equivalent of a No Lynch, then it's only logical that I consider a refusal to random vote worthy of a vote in and of itself.

Unvote, Vote: Barmacral

[Tarhalindur]

Sure. Innocent.

Claiming "innocent" doesn't really do much for me, since barring extreme stupidity every player in this game would claim "innocent" if asked whether they were innocent or guilty.

I do hate random votes, but you asked for one, so I gave it to you.

Um, "but you asked for one" isn't an explanation, it's a cop-out. What convinced you to cast a random vote despite your personal dislike of the concept?

[Tarhalindur]

Ah Ha! I do have a few minutes before I head out, well, here's my response:

Sure. Innocent.

Claiming "innocent" doesn't really do much for me, since barring extreme stupidity every player in this game would claim "innocent" if asked whether they were innocent or guilty.

Obviously. But, provided that I did have a role of any sort, do you really think I would reveal it? As it happens, I AM innocent, but it was a dumb question, and an obvious response to the question.

I do hate random votes, but you asked for one, so I gave it to you.

Um, "but you asked for one" isn't an explanation, it's a cop-out. What convinced you to cast a random vote despite your personal dislike of the concept?

I was somewhat aggrevated by some RL issues that day. My frustration led to that. Its not a cop-out, its exactly what I said it was. However, as spectrumvoid is still not here, I'm going to keep my vote on him, as I am interested in

hi

s unexplained absense.[/quote]

Wait a minute, how did I not notice this before? SV is female! Lynch All Liars!

[Tarhalindur]

Given the rampant lurking and how little information we actually have, I think what we need is a new topic of discussion. In light of this, I propose that we use one of the best known of all discussion generators - the Top 2 Scum List. (Usually it's Top 3 list, but given the small size of the game I think we should cut it down to 2.)

Here's how it works: everyone posts the two people they feel are most likely to be scum, and gives reasons why they feel that way.

Sound good? I'll start us off. Tarhalindur's Top 2 Scum List:

1) Barmacral. His stance on random votes is unusual, and may indicate different motivations from the rest of us. In addition, his decision to cast a random vote due to pressure despite his personal opinion is scummy, IMO.

2) Fernando. From what I've seen, joking around during the random voting stage is a minor scumtellFernando's lack of real content also disturbs me.

[Tarhalindur]

Let's see...

Aimee:

Aimee is slow to get rolling early on, waffles between Barmacral and me (extremely wishy-washy), asks for comments from others, asks for prod on SV/ brings up SV's V/LA status, still wants other people's thoughts, posts her thoughts on other players (very non-committal about everyone else in the game - Aimee throws out FoS's and IGMEOY's like candy, but doesn't actually vote anyone). In particular, Aimee's comments about EB seem very hypocritical:

However, the fact [EB] seems to take two sides to every player is quite concerning - seemingly like he didn't want to step on any toes.

"Pot, this is Kettle. You're black."

Aimee, you're being WAY too noncommittal here. I want a Top 2 Scum List from you. NOW.

Quick Read:

: Scummy, but not as scummy as SV (see below) and Barmacral.

SpectrumVoid:

Spectrum has very little content due to RL issues. That said, what little comment she does have is starting to get concerning to me - she finds several things "odd" but doesn't find anything "scummy", she seems to be stepping in and trying to befriend newbies (I've looked over a number of completed games where experienced scum tried to befriend newbies in order to influence the newbies' votes). There's also this little gem of a comment:

...but my verdict is not scummy for that scum-tell for now

Uh, whiskey tango foxtrot much? That looks like a direct contradiction to me. (I should have spotted it earlier, but I've had limited access for the last couple of days.)

Quick Read:

Hi, scum. Die, scum. Unless I'm very much mistaken, you have committed direct contradiction, an offense for which the appropriate penalty is extermination by lynching.

Unvote, Vote: SpectrumVoid

Enlightened Bystander:

random votes, comments on lack of discussion/notes limited access, offers reasoning on everyone/states that he doesn't really find anyone scummy yet, offers opinions about what to do re: lurkers, offers a Top 2 Scum List with decent reasoning.

Quick Read:

Town. I can't find anything wrong with what EB's posted so far. Barring a major change in his play, he should not be exterminated today.

Note: After rereading Fernando's posts, I noticed something that makes me absolutely, 100% sure that he is not the play for today. I am NOT going to be specific here.

[Tarhalindur]

Sorry about my limited posting lately - I just replaced into a 30-page game, I've been making some long posts in my newb game, and I've had somewhat limited access. I should be able to make a lengthy reply to Aimee's points tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

Tarhalindur Note: I'm still here, with a little more access than I've had for the last week or so. Unfortunately, I've fallen a bit behind in this game. I'll try to reread and get my thoughts on the game and my reply to Aimee in in the next couple of days.

A quick glance at the thread tells me that ryan is attacking Fernando. I don't like this; as I noted before I got hit with limited access, I spotted something in one of Fernando's posts that makes me 90% sure he's pro-town.

FoS: ryan

Unfortunately, I've just got word that I'm going to be on vacation from August 4-12. I'm 90% sure that I'll have no Internet access at that time.

Mod

, if that's going to be a problem then you should probably start looking for a (temporary?) replacement.

[Tarhalindur]

Sharing things in mafia is a good idea.

Tarhalindur: Where's the 90& sure bit?

I will not elaborate at this time.

[Tarhalindur]

Chamber is right for once- cases

are

scummy.

Unvote, Vote ryan, FoS: Albert B. Rampage, FoS: Spectrumvoid

After this latest series of posts, Aimee is now looking quite pro-town to me.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm here (been using my notes to get together a PBPA on ryan), but I'm a bit short for time ATM. I should have a PBPA on ryan in the next day or two.

[Tarhalindur]

Tarhalindur Note: I'm starting to get extremely limited access due to vacation preparations (see V/LA and my previous posts in this thread for details). Unfortunately, this means that I probably won't be able to post anything of real substance up until the 12th of this month, at best.

Mod

: I'd rather not be replaced, but I'll understand if you feel that it's necessary.

I'm going to

Unvote

for the time being, due to the likelihood that I won't be able to change it for a while.

I will note, for the time being, that Aimee's attempts to get analysis out of us without posting actual analysis of her own (i.e, her "assignments") is really starting to ping my scumdar. It reeks of scum trying to appear helpful while flying under the radar/hunting for power roles.

FoS: Aimee

Spectrumvoid seems rather wishy-washy (esp. her "leading the town isn't necessarily bad, but Aimee could be scum trying to AGLEE and hop onto a bandwagon" comment).

Ryan's recent posting (and particularly his Aimee analysis) look pro-town to me. I still think some of his earlier play is scummy, however - especially his actions re: Fernando.

FoS: ryan

I haven't had the time to look through and get a good read on TCS/ABR, unfortunately.

I don't think Fernando is the play for today. Tomorrow, maybe, but not today.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm back from vacation.

After thinking it over during my limited access, I've decided that, given the way my role works in this game (IMO, my role claim is more valuable than my actual role), I need to claim D1 - and given the deadline, now is a good time for that claim.

I have one of the two roles in the game where I believe that it's acceptable to breadcrumb, and as such I breadcrumbed my role earlier in this game. Observe:

Let's see...

Aimee:

Aimee is slow to get rolling early on, waffles between Barmacral and me (extremely wishy-washy), asks for comments from others, asks for prod on SV/ brings up SV's V/LA status, still wants other people's thoughts, posts her thoughts on other players (very non-committal about everyone else in the game - Aimee throws out FoS's and IGMEOY's like candy, but doesn't actually vote anyone). In particular, Aimee's comments about EB seem very hypocritical:

However, the fact [EB] seems to take two sides to every player is quite concerning - seemingly like he didn't want to step on any toes.

"Pot, this is Kettle. You're black."

Aimee, you're being WAY too noncommittal here. I want a Top 2 Scum List from you. NOW.

Quick Read:

: Scummy, but not as scummy as SV (see below) and Barmacral.

SpectrumVoid:

Spectrum has very little content due to RL issues. That said, what little comment she does have is starting to get concerning to me - she finds several things "odd" but doesn't find anything "scummy", she seems to be stepping in and trying to befriend newbies (I've looked over a number of completed games where experienced scum tried to befriend newbies in order to influence the newbies' votes). There's also this little gem of a comment:

...but my verdict is not scummy for that scum-tell for now

Uh, whiskey tango foxtrot much? That looks like a direct contradiction to me. (I should have spotted it earlier, but I've had limited access for the last couple of days.)

Quick Read:

Hi, scum. Die, scum. Unless I'm very much mistaken, you have committed direct contradiction, an offense for which the appropriate penalty is

extermination

by lynching. Unvote, Vote: SpectrumVoid

Enlightened Bystander:

random votes, comments on lack of discussion/notes limited access, offers reasoning on everyone/states that he doesn't really find anyone scummy yet, offers opinions about what to do re: lurkers, offers a Top 2 Scum List with decent reasoning.

Quick Read:

Town. I can't find anything wrong with what EB's posted so far. Barring a major change in his play, he should not be

exterminated

today.

Note: After rereading Fernando's posts, I noticed something that makes me absolutely, 100% sure that he is not the play for today. I am NOT going to be specific here.

So, why would I use "exterminate" instead of "lynch"? Why, because "EXTERMINATE!" is the catchphrase of the Daleks of Doctor Who fame. And who is the main character of Doctor Who? Why, the

Doctor

, of course!

[Tarhalindur]

Unvote

JEEZ man! I'm not sure if that was the smartest thing to do (how about putting up a decent argument against somebody else?) Anyway, I'll go back to my original scum candidate

Vote: FeRnAnDo

If he was your original scum candidate, then why were you voting for me instead of him in the first place?

Unvote, Vote: ryan

[Tarhalindur]

By the way you have now put a townie at -1

Double-standard, because as have you. OMGUSser.

AND I've actually done something in this game to find scum, what have you done?

Frankly, ryan, after what I've seen over the last few pages, I no longer care whether your win condition is "win with the town" or "win with the mafia". Regardless of your alignment, your play is helping the mafia, and as such you need to die.

LOCK ON: ryan

[Tarhalindur]

My play is NOT helping the mafia one bit. You vote me, you lose a townie, plain and simple.

If you're a townie, then you shouldn't care about dying.

Simply put, your death helps the town - it gives us information, and it removes an scummy all-but-unconfirmable player who could be a liability in endgame.

Frankly, I don't really care about losing a scummy townie Day 1 (especially one who's been fishing for the Doc, intentionally or not). In fact, after Newb 399 I consider opposition to information-lynching a townie Day 1 a scumtell.

[Tarhalindur]

Um, it's 3 Townies, 1 Doc (hi!), 1 Cop, and 2 Mafia, hence 5 Town - 2 Scum instead of 4 - 3.

[Tarhalindur]

No. Hell no. Whatever we do, we are NOT lynching Fernando today.

I was really hoping not to have to do this, but it looks like I have no choice...

Remember those "I saw something that makes me 90% sure that Fernando is pro-town" and "Fernando is not the play for today" comments? Well, I had a damn good reason for them...

... namely, that Fernando has been crumbing a power role.

omg, that's the biggest post i've ever seen/read in this game. but ok i'll fulfill my assignmentS!

First of all, i'm not British, i'm Brazilian.

2. About EB.
Quote:

He then has a weak player analysis. I will put my views in (all the following quotes come from Fernando).

Quote:
Enlightened bystander²: placed a vote on someone who already had one, random or not, that's isn't a thing you should do without a reason in the same line.


It was a random vote. Please explain how that is in any way suspicious.


In my POV this is weird, btw, how can you be so sure it was random? putting someone at L-2 without a valid reason would be a full dish for mafia / newbies to jump in early game and put us in a difficult situation. It's not that suspicious, but that along with his lack of content was enough to pla

C

e him in 2nd.


3. About Ryan:

Well, agressive is a thing we all should agree... but i find him to be a good all-around player. Lurker-seeker, instigating people to post, helping the game to move on. I have t

O

disagree with Aimee about ryan not mentioning SV, since he had a good reason for it (she was ill), but it's indeed odd his relation with EB. But his agressiveness imho is good for the game, not like tar's. For now: not scum.

4. About Aimee:

Aimee is showing some leadershi

P

in the game, maybe those assignments are part of a plan to make the game spin around her vision and possible make people judge all her future actions as pro-town, but maybe that's just her way of playing it. she has a well-mannered agressiveness, nothing extreme. but what's really odd is that she just threw FOSs (and eyes) all round, i wasn't expecting that from her. but anyways, for now: not scum

I hope i've made things clearer

This is related to the other, unstated reason for my early claim - I was hoping to draw mafia fire away from the cop onto the doc (hi!). Looks like that's no longer an option.

Now unvote our claimed cop and lynch ryan ffs. Seriously, he's been outing our power roles for the entire game (just like his probable scumbuddy, d3sisted).

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: by d3sisted, I mean SV-now-d3sisted.

[Tarhalindur]

Am I the only person in this game who wants to find the scum?

Seriously, guys. Less banter, more scum-hunting.



I don't have much time for cases right now (limited access), but here's a start:

These two posts raised red flags for me.

There is the exact quote. For some reason a few players (Tarha, Fernando and Aimee) seem to have information that they aren't willing to share or at least reasons they feel somebody is town that they aren't willing to share, that isn't very pro town if you ask me and the argument that it will help the scum isn't an argument, the scum know who they are, as long as we aren't giving out roles, I find no reason to not give reasons why somebody is town. We seem to have no problem fingering people for scum, so why not why people are town? One if not two of those three are scum.

As you have seen, sometimes it is anti-town to explicitly reveal something you've spotted - revealing my reasoning behind thinking FeRnAnDo is town would have been - indeed, is - an effective death sentence, for obvious reasons.

He had a chance to explain why Fernando was town and chose to do this post instead. Actually upon a little review of the game I do have a little more suspicion toward Tarhalindur than I did before, something about Aimee isn't sitting right with me right now.

Interesting how much you try to paint the same three players with the scum brush (me, Fer, Aimee) for most of the game. Frankly, at this point I think all three of these players are town.

[Tarhalindur]

Bah!

[Tarhalindur]

!zombieDoctor

Actually, the last scum should have been kinda obvious, seeing as I got NKed N1 instead of Fernando...

(assuming Tar really is a doc) Cop would've claimed by now, since he knows he can get protected tonight.

You are the Doctor. Each Night, you may choose one player to protect and send me their name. That player will be protected from nightkills that Night.

However, your protection will not work on the Cop.

Additionally, you may not target yourself.

You win when both mafiates are dead.

Seriously, that's why I claimed D1 - I hoped that the Mafia would nuke me instead of the crumbed cop, allowing Fernando to get in an investigation. I can't believe that d3sisted-scum was silly enough to fall for my plan

even after forcing me to out the Cop

.

/returns to the grave until the game officially ends.

[Tarhalindur]

[mrburns]Excellent.[/mrburns]