Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[IH]

Also, Ripley and Teffc both have rabbit type avatars. Possible connection? You can add that to your notes Ripley, and congratulate me after the game.

Shhh, you'll give the game away! We just started!

Vote: Ripley for not voting

A scumtell older than the game itself

LIES

FoS

!

Unfortunately I have to confirm that in all the games I've completed with him Patrick has been pro-town. I'm not quite sure how he manages this. These games include the previous Pie C9, where we managed to have a Day 1 that lasted for 2 months and contained almost no useful content. The whole of the game really happened on Day 2. I believe Patrick was in another Pie C9 before that one, too, so if anyone has anything useful to say about the setup it's probably him.

I have been in games with Patrick as scum!

I have also been his scumbuddy!

I really hope that wasn't a badly premature cop claim.

That, or he may be the roleblocker we're looking for.

Major FoS

You fisher of Roles!

There's nothing on the mods posts that mention the Cops sanity. And I'm trying to get a bit of meaningful discussion going, suppose you could say I achieved it. Rather noobish I'll admit, guess you have to learn from mistakes though.

Open=normal=Sane

One thing in Jordan's favor in all this is that if he were scum he'd have been more likely to be aware that the game didn't start with night. I mean, wouldn't you remember that you hadn't tried to kill anybody yet? I keep wondering whether there's some flaw in this argument, since nobody else (including Jordan) has mentioned it. Hmmm - maybe you might forget, especially if you were in a few games that had started around the same time; it's very easy to confuse them in the first pages.

Of course some games have a cop head start, don't they? In other words night for cop, day for everyone else.

How does the roleblocker comment fit in with the "jumpy scum fearing a cop result" theory? Maybe I'm trying too hard here to find logical reasoning behind a panicky post. I really don't know.

It fits wishy washy scum, trying to unsubstantiate a player for no reason = )

Also it is almost a loaded question.

Either Simenon is the cop,or he is scum.

These attacks on Jordan are justified, but have have yet to convince anyone(I hope) that Jordan is a worthy day 1 lynch

On the other hand I'm finding Simenon's play extremely suspicious. You keep suggesting that you have reasons for your original vote against Jordan, and I don't buy that. And I definitely don't believe that you've actually somehow posted your reasons.

You're definitely looking alot worse than Jordan to me

Vote: Simenon

FOS

If I were scum, there'd only be 1 other mafia, but I've only had 2 votes and 1 FOS so far.

How does this even make sense.

It's a highly debatable tell- now that there are other, more valid reasons for voting jordan, it would lead to an unecessary slap-fight.

I WANNA SEE IT DANGIT

FoS:Simenon for being stubborn, and it's pointless to hide anything

I don't like post 107

If that isn't flawed logic, I don't know what is, why on Earth would I try outing myself and my buddy like that, I'm a newbie, but I'm not stupid. Vote: Patrick

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

Nah. I <3 my Ripley.
:shrug:, I don't remember disagreeing with you much in the two or so games we played together.

I feel the distraction would lie in what I say. As I have said, my former reasoning is completely irrelevant, and could be used by ze opportunistic scum. Since there is no scummy aspect about my previous thinking, I don't feel obliged to disclose it.

What I see is an attempt to make a big ado about nothing. Let's not exaggerate the seriousness of this- I voted without an originally posted reason, because something turned me off, and jordan was wonderful (let's give him a hand) and provided me with another reason to vote him.

So, I ask for those who are voting me for this- what exactly could I accomplish as scum by refusing to disclose my reasoning and what exactly is scummy about me doing so?

TO stop this distracting conversation.

Also, I want to see what is so controversial it would start a slap fight, possible miles away from each other. (GLoves in the mail?)

SECRET SCUMTELLS SUCK = |

I hate post 122

Jordan does not know what appeal to emotion means. = )

Jordan's argument with simenon..... ugh, it hurts me to read his responses.....

HINT:Not simenon's

Paradoxombie continues to focus exclusively on Simenon's refusal to divulge his original scumtell on Jordan. I don't understand why this is such a huge issue. Simenon originally voted Jordan when all Jordan had done was random vote with a dice roll. He's probably prolonging the whole thing because it amuses him to be awkward.

I also have noticed this.

I don't see what significance his motive has, he says a piece of information is meaningless and not suspicious and yet refuses to tell us for what seems like no reason.

FOS: Patrick and Ripley

Neither of you haven't mentioned any flaws in my reasoning, so i don't understand what difference it makes.

Somthing doesn't make sense about Simenon and you just want to drop it? What possible reason could you have to want that? You think it's distracting? How about you convince Simenon to just come clean and explain himself? Wouldn't that be a more protown resolution than me just stopping, regardless of the significance of the issue?

While part of this seems to make sense, it really doesn't that much. Pretty much the only reason I want him to answer is to stop distracting from other things. This is like attacking someone for a random vote. Seriously, he has other reasons, and it wasn't like he was trying to hide them at first, but only after he has a better reason. It looks more like a null tell, as he's already said it;s irrelevant, which means he's not using it against him anymore.

Also, the biggest flaw in your reasoning is that you WON'T LOOK AT ANYONE ELSE. While jordan scum scrambles, you unsubstantiate another player.

FoS

dude.

unvote (if voting), vote:Paradoxombie.

after ALL that.....

cool.

seriously. This was stupid.

FoS:Aimee

Slightly. She only seems to post whenever she gets mentioned.

I'm almost certain one of Sim or Patrick is scum, if I had to guess, I'd guess Sim. For their partner, I think another experienced player, one who has decided to not vote for me for precisly the reason stated above, in fact, I think that's another point against Sim, trying to communicate in thread maybe? I know I'm not a scum, so, I'm going to Vote: Sim.

Why? Why do you think they are scum?

Panicked early and for no real reason when Simenon said he had reason to believe he was scum. Obviously doesn't pay much attention, because then he asks about the sanity of cops. Unnecessary if the front post was read. But does that point to Mafia or Town? It points mainly to stupidity. His reasons for the cop thing amount entirely to WIFOM, and he also says rather bizarrely that Simenon could be a roleblocker, which doesn't really solve anything. His explanations seem to be "oopsie, I'm a newbie!", which don't really explain anything, really. Overall, looking very defensive at the moment. Some rash votes have also occurred, mainly his vote against Simenon on post 123.

So.... what do you think about him? Scummy or town?

Patrick: Whilst Jordan's immediate panic was suspicion, I feel that Patrick jumped on slightly too strong onto Jordan. Despite this, his points are clear and well made, and identifies flaws in Jordan's points (e.g. WIFOM). Typical Patrick, really. Patrick was also probably the strongest jumper onto Jordan.

Same thing? Do you think he's being scummy, or being Patrick? TO uncomittal.

Same thing with all of them actually. You never actually commit to ANYTHING much here.....

MAJOR fos:Aimee

I think this post contains too much flourish and empty summary and too little actual analysis.

QF effin T (Sweet, I found a way to do it)

Bleh, I've been Sanarth'd like three times.

Also Jordan, I know what you're response is going to be I think.

"Look, see I told you" in an omgus-ee style.

[IH]

ALSO, it should be noted that Para repeatedly accused Ripley of holding his vote, and is holding his vote after only voting for Simenon.

[Paradoxombie]

I don't understand how you can ethically vote me for voting someone you FOS'd for the exact same reason. I didn't even think he was scummy! I just wanted to pressure him into telling me, which he did.

You admitted that you wanted to know, too. And agreed that Simenon made it abundantly clear that he wasn't hiding it for any good reason. How can you vote me for taking action to make it happen?

[Aimee]

Also, Ripley and Teffc both have rabbit type avatars. Possible connection? You can add that to your notes Ripley, and congratulate me after the game.

Shhh, you'll give the game away! We just started!

Vote: Ripley for not voting

A scumtell older than the game itself

LIES

FoS

!

Unfortunately I have to confirm that in all the games I've completed with him Patrick has been pro-town. I'm not quite sure how he manages this. These games include the previous Pie C9, where we managed to have a Day 1 that lasted for 2 months and contained almost no useful content. The whole of the game really happened on Day 2. I believe Patrick was in another Pie C9 before that one, too, so if anyone has anything useful to say about the setup it's probably him.

I have been in games with Patrick as scum!

I have also been his scumbuddy!

I really hope that wasn't a badly premature cop claim.

That, or he may be the roleblocker we're looking for.

Major FoS

You fisher of Roles!

There's nothing on the mods posts that mention the Cops sanity. And I'm trying to get a bit of meaningful discussion going, suppose you could say I achieved it. Rather noobish I'll admit, guess you have to learn from mistakes though.

Open=normal=Sane

One thing in Jordan's favor in all this is that if he were scum he'd have been more likely to be aware that the game didn't start with night. I mean, wouldn't you remember that you hadn't tried to kill anybody yet? I keep wondering whether there's some flaw in this argument, since nobody else (including Jordan) has mentioned it. Hmmm - maybe you might forget, especially if you were in a few games that had started around the same time; it's very easy to confuse them in the first pages.

Of course some games have a cop head start, don't they? In other words night for cop, day for everyone else.

How does the roleblocker comment fit in with the "jumpy scum fearing a cop result" theory? Maybe I'm trying too hard here to find logical reasoning behind a panicky post. I really don't know.

It fits wishy washy scum, trying to unsubstantiate a player for no reason = )

Also it is almost a loaded question.

Either Simenon is the cop,or he is scum.

These attacks on Jordan are justified, but have have yet to convince anyone(I hope) that Jordan is a worthy day 1 lynch

On the other hand I'm finding Simenon's play extremely suspicious. You keep suggesting that you have reasons for your original vote against Jordan, and I don't buy that. And I definitely don't believe that you've actually somehow posted your reasons.

You're definitely looking alot worse than Jordan to me

Vote: Simenon

FOS

If I were scum, there'd only be 1 other mafia, but I've only had 2 votes and 1 FOS so far.

How does this even make sense.

It's a highly debatable tell- now that there are other, more valid reasons for voting jordan, it would lead to an unecessary slap-fight.

I WANNA SEE IT DANGIT

FoS:Simenon for being stubborn, and it's pointless to hide anything

I don't like post 107

If that isn't flawed logic, I don't know what is, why on Earth would I try outing myself and my buddy like that, I'm a newbie, but I'm not stupid. Vote: Patrick

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

Nah. I <3 my Ripley.
:shrug:, I don't remember disagreeing with you much in the two or so games we played together.

I feel the distraction would lie in what I say. As I have said, my former reasoning is completely irrelevant, and could be used by ze opportunistic scum. Since there is no scummy aspect about my previous thinking, I don't feel obliged to disclose it.

What I see is an attempt to make a big ado about nothing. Let's not exaggerate the seriousness of this- I voted without an originally posted reason, because something turned me off, and jordan was wonderful (let's give him a hand) and provided me with another reason to vote him.

So, I ask for those who are voting me for this- what exactly could I accomplish as scum by refusing to disclose my reasoning and what exactly is scummy about me doing so?

TO stop this distracting conversation.

Also, I want to see what is so controversial it would start a slap fight, possible miles away from each other. (GLoves in the mail?)

SECRET SCUMTELLS SUCK = |

I hate post 122

Jordan does not know what appeal to emotion means. = )

Jordan's argument with simenon..... ugh, it hurts me to read his responses.....

HINT:Not simenon's

Paradoxombie continues to focus exclusively on Simenon's refusal to divulge his original scumtell on Jordan. I don't understand why this is such a huge issue. Simenon originally voted Jordan when all Jordan had done was random vote with a dice roll. He's probably prolonging the whole thing because it amuses him to be awkward.

I also have noticed this.

I don't see what significance his motive has, he says a piece of information is meaningless and not suspicious and yet refuses to tell us for what seems like no reason.

FOS: Patrick and Ripley

Neither of you haven't mentioned any flaws in my reasoning, so i don't understand what difference it makes.

Somthing doesn't make sense about Simenon and you just want to drop it? What possible reason could you have to want that? You think it's distracting? How about you convince Simenon to just come clean and explain himself? Wouldn't that be a more protown resolution than me just stopping, regardless of the significance of the issue?

While part of this seems to make sense, it really doesn't that much. Pretty much the only reason I want him to answer is to stop distracting from other things. This is like attacking someone for a random vote. Seriously, he has other reasons, and it wasn't like he was trying to hide them at first, but only after he has a better reason. It looks more like a null tell, as he's already said it;s irrelevant, which means he's not using it against him anymore.

Also, the biggest flaw in your reasoning is that you WON'T LOOK AT ANYONE ELSE. While jordan scum scrambles, you unsubstantiate another player.

FoS

dude.

unvote (if voting), vote:Paradoxombie.

after ALL that.....

cool.

seriously. This was stupid.

FoS:Aimee

Slightly. She only seems to post whenever she gets mentioned.

I'm almost certain one of Sim or Patrick is scum, if I had to guess, I'd guess Sim. For their partner, I think another experienced player, one who has decided to not vote for me for precisly the reason stated above, in fact, I think that's another point against Sim, trying to communicate in thread maybe? I know I'm not a scum, so, I'm going to Vote: Sim.

Why? Why do you think they are scum?

Panicked early and for no real reason when Simenon said he had reason to believe he was scum. Obviously doesn't pay much attention, because then he asks about the sanity of cops. Unnecessary if the front post was read. But does that point to Mafia or Town? It points mainly to stupidity. His reasons for the cop thing amount entirely to WIFOM, and he also says rather bizarrely that Simenon could be a roleblocker, which doesn't really solve anything. His explanations seem to be "oopsie, I'm a newbie!", which don't really explain anything, really. Overall, looking very defensive at the moment. Some rash votes have also occurred, mainly his vote against Simenon on post 123.

So.... what do you think about him? Scummy or town?

Patrick: Whilst Jordan's immediate panic was suspicion, I feel that Patrick jumped on slightly too strong onto Jordan. Despite this, his points are clear and well made, and identifies flaws in Jordan's points (e.g. WIFOM). Typical Patrick, really. Patrick was also probably the strongest jumper onto Jordan.

Same thing? Do you think he's being scummy, or being Patrick? TO uncomittal.

Same thing with all of them actually. You never actually commit to ANYTHING much here.....

MAJOR fos:Aimee

I think this post contains too much flourish and empty summary and too little actual analysis.

QF effin T (Sweet, I found a way to do it)

Bleh, I've been Sanarth'd like three times.

Also Jordan, I know what you're response is going to be I think.

"Look, see I told you" in an omgus-ee style.

I think Paradox is scum, as previously stated in later posts. I am also suspicious of Jordan, who I believe is trying to hide after the earlier incidents.

Paradox, what are you saying about ethics?

[Aimee]

I don't understand how you can ethically vote me for voting someone you FOS'd for the exact same reason. I didn't even think he was scummy! I just wanted to pressure him into telling me, which he did.

You admitted that you wanted to know, too. And agreed that Simenon made it abundantly clear that he wasn't hiding it for any good reason. How can you vote me for taking action to make it happen?

Didn't you say earlier that you were "extremely suspicious" of Simenon and said his action was anti-town. How can you therefore say you didn't find that scummy?

[Paradoxombie]

Oh, that's directed at IH to clarify

[Paradoxombie]

Didn't you say earlier that you were "extremely suspicious" of Simenon and said his action was anti-town. How can you therefore say you didn't find that scummy?

His refusing to tell us was definitely antitown, imo. But now that we're farther into the game and everyone's giving more tells it's not relatively as big of a deal in terms of suspicion as to being scummy. I'll be watching out, but isolated incidents rarely prove anything in this game and nothing new has come up about Sim.

Same goes for Jordan.

[Patrick]

Hmm, stuff happened. First of all, IH is always scum.

Kill: IH.

Well ok I agree with much of the stuff he said actually. Hmm.

That's odd, first bit of pressure, and Teffc asks for replacement.

I'm interested to hear whether you think that reflects anything on her (now his) alignment and why. You seem pretty confident suddenly that Teffc was scum.

And that question from Paradox from a while back.

So when I say that I went after Simenon for playing in a way I considered anti-town, is that acceptable to you, even if you don't agree that simenon was being antitown?

I feel we may be going round in circles here. Suffice it to say that you ignoring his intent did not sit well with me.

[JordanA24]

That's odd, first bit of pressure, and Teffc asks for replacement.

I'm interested to hear whether you think that reflects anything on her (now his) alignment and why. You seem pretty confident suddenly that Teffc was scum.

I was in another game with Teffc where she was acting scummy, and then asked for replacement, so, I'm wondering whether she's not very good at handling scum roles.

And that question from Paradox from a while back.

So when I say that I went after Simenon for playing in a way I considered anti-town, is that acceptable to you, even if you don't agree that simenon was being antitown?

I feel we may be going round in circles here. Suffice it to say that you ignoring his intent did not sit well with me.

I stoped pressuring Sim on that after his 'It's irrelevent etc' post, when it was clear I wasn't going to get anywhere by pressuring him, Paradox didn't.

[IH]

I don't understand how you can ethically vote me for voting someone you FOS'd for the exact same reason. I didn't even think he was scummy! I just wanted to pressure him into telling me, which he did.

You admitted that you wanted to know, too. And agreed that Simenon made it abundantly clear that he wasn't hiding it for any good reason. How can you vote me for taking action to make it happen?

Well, there is an extent.

mmk, Simenon was SLIGHTLY scummy, just because he seemed to dodge the question, but, especially looking at what he's revealed, it probably wouldn't have mattered, because it really is irrelevant.

Not only that, you concetrated on Simenon and that throughout the whole game, and NOTHING ELSE. Not only that, when he gave it up, you didn't say anything but "cool" and pretty much unvoted.

The only thing you did, and pretty much the only reason that I wanted to know (Because I hadn't seen if he had revealed it) was to get you to shut up, and to quit distracting from the game.

Simenon only got an FoS, because, while his motives may have been to not distract from the game, it made it even worse when you were hanging onto him doggedly and doing nothing else.

I was in another game with Teffc where she was acting scummy, and then asked for replacement, so, I'm wondering whether she's not very good at handling scum roles.

Unless her replacement is dead and confirmed, this is still irrelevant, and is irrellevant anyway as you don't know WHY she asked for replacement, and it sounds just like a way to try and throw suspicion on me.

[JordanA24]

I was in another game with Teffc where she was acting scummy, and then asked for replacement, so, I'm wondering whether she's not very good at handling scum roles.

Unless her replacement is dead and confirmed, this is still irrelevant, and is irrellevant anyway as you don't know WHY she asked for replacement, and it sounds just like a way to try and throw suspicion on me.

They might both be coincidence, but I don't think so.

[Paradoxombie]

You're not making much sense here, I'm trying to understand a player and that is distracting from the game? I mean I've been here about a year less than you but I'm pretty sure trying to figure people out is at least 90% of pro-town play.

NOW CHECK THIS SHIT!:

IF I am scum
THEN you realized I was because of discussion on a topic which you consider distracting
THEREFORE discussion is helpful to the town even if it's "distracting" or "irrelevant"
AND SO My play has directly helped the town
and
SINCE your proof that I am scum is that I am not helping the town
THEN Your proof cannot prove I am scum logically. Whether I really am or not(NOT!), the logic you use to prove it is invalid.

I cannot be both scum and unhelpful to the town in this situation, as you suggest.

argue or unvote, please.(or come up with better reasoning)

I <3 logic

[IH]

No, you distracted from other more important things, like the jordan conversation, by solely focusing on LFR, so you HELPED Jordan and all other scummy things going on. IN other words you distracted from his wagon.

So YES you can still be both.

[IH]

Incase that STILL didn't do it for you, here is why distracting from things is a scumtell.

1.Defending players subversively by sucking conversation

2.Cutting the towns conversation short by forcing them to focus on this

3.Using the repetetive fallacy, in other words just repeating things over and over until the town begins to believe them.

Now, focusing on one thing is bad. Repeatedly bringing something up while continuing to comment on things in the game isn't. You ignored everything but Simenon. THAT is scummy.

[Paradoxombie]

You keep saying "ignored"; that's misleading. I'm sorry I didn't point out every two comments that I agreed with somthing someone else posted(basically what you did all at once) but I don't feel the need to post on every matter unless I have somthing new to add or a differing opinion or if I'm going to vote based on it.

maybe 1 and 2 apply in a RL game, but seriously, people can do whatever they want on here. In the majority of the games Im in people post on several convos at once. Sure it gets confusing but it's not like were limited in time, people can always get their questions answered eventually.

And seriously how can you so easily make the town the victim? I wanted one little piece of info and simenon had to make a big deal about it. I make a big deal about it in return, but I didn't "force" the town to take a side in it. I didn't "force" them to do anything. Nothing else was going on. If I was really so terrible, I'd like everyone who was here to point out wtf they were going to do that was so important that I "forced" them to forget about.

You read the topic, IH, we can follow any leads we want from then, but you haven't come up with any. If I hadn't posted confronting Simenon, you wouldn't have any leads at all as far as I can tell. You have nothing to bring up from before I "forced" the town to change focus. If you came in here and had some good leads maybe you'd have a better argument. Or maybe if as soon as I unvoted Simenon people had a plethora of leads that they had been "forced" to ignore. But nobody does. Give the rest of the town some responsibility, they're not ADD-afflicted 4 year olds.

And seriously #3 I just don't get. If there was somthing I said that was fallacious and someone gave me a good logical reason, I have no motive not to become convinced. Examples would be nice.

anyway,

FOS:

Jordan some of the recent stupid things you've said seem forced(no offense if they're honest mistakes)
Like you realized all your mistakes could be blamed on newbiness and went out of your way to seem like one. I mean, you've only been here 7 days less than me. Though obviously there are other possible explanations.

[JordanA24]

Jordan does not know what appeal to emotion means. = )

I do understand, i was having a ridiculously bad off-day in what was already an off-game for me.

Honest guys, I usually am not this bad.

[IH]

maybe 1 and 2 apply in a RL game, but seriously, people can do whatever they want on here. In the majority of the games Im in people post on several convos at once. Sure it gets confusing but it's not like were limited in time, people can always get their questions answered eventually.

People can do whatever they want, but they're going to be accused of some things. Para, I know what games are like. You were focusing in on something that was, in the long run, irrellevant (Since he already gave other reasons for suspicion and they no longer applied, as he stated) while there were other more available venues of conversation.

And seriously how can you so easily make the town the victim? I wanted one little piece of info and simenon had to make a big deal about it. I make a big deal about it in return, but I didn't "force" the town to take a side in it. I didn't "force" them to do anything. Nothing else was going on. If I was really so terrible, I'd like everyone who was here to point out wtf they were going to do that was so important that I "forced" them to forget about.

I'm not making the town the victim. I'm saying that

you

made a big deal about it, while ignoring what he said, and what it actually meant. There were other things going on, namely the points against Jordan and such. You forced the town to by focusing in on it, and by making it as big as you did, you drew attention onto something else and away from other more important things.

You read the topic, IH, we can follow any leads we want from then, but you haven't come up with any. If I hadn't posted confronting Simenon, you wouldn't have any leads at all as far as I can tell. You have nothing to bring up from before I "forced" the town to change focus. If you came in here and had some good leads maybe you'd have a better argument. Or maybe if as soon as I unvoted Simenon people had a plethora of leads that they had been "forced" to ignore. But nobody does. Give the rest of the town some responsibility, they're not ADD-afflicted 4 year olds.

This is a straight out lie. Jordan was a good one, so was Aimee and her uncomittalness . People already had leads.

My main concern is, did you really think Simenon was scum for it? That it was a matter of alignment? Obviously not, as you unvoted, and your only response was "cool".

I do understand, i was having a ridiculously bad off-day in what was already an off-game for me.

Honest guys, I usually am not this bad.

I'm just saying that you didn't, it was in regards to a comment in the middle of the game that I was rereading.

[JordanA24]

I do understand, i was having a ridiculously bad off-day in what was already an off-game for me.

Honest guys, I usually am not this bad.

I'm just saying that you didn't, it was in regards to a comment in the middle of the game that I was rereading.

I know

[Paradoxombie]

This is a straight out lie. Jordan was a good one, so was Aimee and her uncomittalness . People already had leads.

Yeah right. If they're so great I don't see why you aren't pursuing them now at all. Pretend I'd never posted the simenon thing for a second and play from there. Do all those things I distracted people from doing! Prove that there's somthing we missed because of me! Prove that we had somewhere better to go from before I "derailed" the town's progress.

My main concern is, did you really think Simenon was scum for it? That it was a matter of alignment? Obviously not, as you unvoted, and your only response was "cool".

In my opinion there was potential. Besides there's always somthing to learn when the town's talking. You "proved" I was scum from that discussion. You can't argue with that. You can't say that irrelevant discussion is unhelpful or pointless AND that I'm scum. (It's deja vu)

To simplify my understanding:
Your proof that I am scum is that by creating a situation which lead you directly to the scum, I purposely prevented the town from finding scum.

[IH]

Yeah right. If they're so great I don't see why you aren't pursuing them now at all. Pretend I'd never posted the simenon thing for a second and play from there. Do all those things I distracted people from doing! Prove that there's somthing we missed because of me! Prove that we had somewhere better to go from before I "derailed" the town's progress.

No, and unless you're scum, this is pointless. The conversations would have gone more indepth, we would have gotten more information out of those players and the conversation.

In my opinion there was potential. Besides there's always somthing to learn when the town's talking. You "proved" I was scum from that discussion. You can't argue with that. You can't say that irrelevant discussion is unhelpful or pointless AND that I'm scum. (It's deja vu)

That's right. I don't get why you're even arguing this. You're admitting it's a scummy thing to do. Of course I'm going to attack you. You're argument is irrelevant anyways.

On the offchance you are town though, this should be a lesson as to why you SHOULDN'T do it.

[Simenon]

Jordan does not know what appeal to emotion means. = )

I do understand, i was having a ridiculously bad off-day in what was already an off-game for me.

Honest guys, I usually am not this bad.

Xombie still comes off as rather town to me since the start of the game, and has still given me the town vibes, except for his fos. Maybe I just have a natural opposition to such a weak gesture, but fossing jordan here just seems off to me.

[Paradoxombie]

Well I wouldn't normally feel the urge to post such small details until I'm ready to actually go after someone, but apparently some people have a problem with that kind of playing.

[Paradoxombie]

Well please IH, I'd like to see something.

I'd like you to post what you think my train of thought is as I purposely go out of my way to distract the town. Post exactly my intentions and motivations and how I decided to go about each confrontation as I post throughout those times.

Then do the same thing again but assume that I really am town and all of the reasons I gave are true. Post the motivations I gave and thoughts I already gave along with them

I you can do both logically and unbiased, then the second explanation/story must look much more ridiculous and unlikely than the first, right? The second story must be veryconflicting and nonsensical, right? Since you aren't doing much anything at the moment but arguing with me, you don't seem to have better things to do. So why not? It'll prove your convictions, and maybe prove your points.

Actually it might be better If someone who I know would be less blatantly biased did it, maybe Ripley or Simenon.

Whoever does it I'd appreciate it.
Since we don't have a deadline it doesn't seem like much to ask, no?

[Patrick]

Hmm. Been lazy in this game past few days. I sense it will become much harder to reread it soon =P

By the way IH, the word you want is "noncommital" rather than "uncommital".

The worst of it is I can't really think of anything to say right now. I've read the debate between IH and Paradoxombie and it doesn't leave me wanting to add anything. I think Paradoxombie focussed on Simenon too long, and apparently didn't even want to think about Simenon's motives, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it a big distraction necessarily to the rest of us. He didn't really add much to the Jordan debate I guess.

I'm uninspired by my own post. Maybe I'll be able to add something else tomorrow when it's not so late. I *think* I'm more suspicious of Jordan and Aimee than Paradoxombie.

[Ripley]

Patrick has summed up pretty well what I'm thinking myself. I suppose with a new player joining it was inevitable that this whole Paradoxombie/Simenon thing would be dissected yet again, but honestly, I think way too much time and energy has been devoted to it. Increasingly, I'm struggling to pay attention, and it feels like the same ground is being covered over and over again. Reading back a bit, I find something Paradoxombie said in post 165 really ironic:

I think you guys are making a bigger deal of Jordan than you have to, dwelling on one issue isn't doing anything but slowing down the game. No one has anything new to add about the situation. Maybe Jordan is scum, maybe not. Sitting on this one thing is about as bad as not posting.

What he says about us making a big deal of the Jordan issue here is pretty much exactly what I think about him and his own pet issue.

Where he does make an attempt to talk about something else, say Post 160, it comes across as a sop to keep the rest of us happy until he can find a way to divert back to his preferred topic.

This was really why I wanted Simenon to come out and tell us right away, because I could see it becoming a distraction, though I didn't anticipate quite how much of a distraction, or how long it would drag on.

I'll aim to reread the last few pages tomorrow and hope to find something new to say.