Mini 448: Judgement Day Mafia-Game Over!

[Spambot]

Fonz, let me explain this a little better. JDodge said that if we lynch xyzzy the mafia would get a free kill. I said that there is a chance that he could be scum, so we could get a free mafia killed. But thinking on it,I didn't like JDoge's post.

Unvote/Vote: JDodge

DELAYED REACTION + OMGUS!

It's definite that the scum get a free kill. It's NOT definite that we kill scum if we lynch xyzzy.

Why aren't you all voting ~N9V~?

Because xyzzy just claimed not-town. I need to go reread some of N9V's posts, but he might be my second or third choice right now.

[The Fonz]

I based my assumption that there is a town on the fact that I was going entirely off of logic.

Ah, now I see what Spambot's getting at here. You shouldn't assume there's a town, you ought to know. In fact, didn't Xyzzy state earlier that he did

know

(not assume) there were townies? And now he says he assumed there was a town based off logical deduction?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I based my assumption that there is a town on the fact that I was going entirely off of logic.

Ah, now I see what Spambot's getting at here. You shouldn't assume there's a town, you ought to know. In fact, didn't Xyzzy state earlier that he did

know

(not assume) there were townies? And now he says he assumed there was a town based off logical deduction?

Yes, exactly.

As for your reason for voting me, its either baseless or OMGUS.

Let me explain: When someone hammers, there's the risk of lynching a town.

When someone -1, the only risk is that someone hammers(I suppose this is what you meant)

But hammering would be an anti-town move that would surely only lead to a lynch for the hammerer if the person at -1 doesn't have a suitable time frame to respond to any arguments. So there, -1 is literally risk-free (I was saying it in the context in which N9V said that its best to hammer than to leave it at -1 to gain information) Err do I make myself clear ?

[xyzzy]

I don't see a logical alternative to the non-existence of a town.

If you can come up with a reason why there might not be a town, because I can't see one, please tell me!

[Higsby]

Why aren't you all voting ~N9V~?

Well, I kind of followed what I thought ~N9V~ was saying initially. At first I thought he was saying, "I think we all think xyzzy is scum, so a lynch would be better than a -1 situation where no infos are flowing." But that doesn't really seem to be the way ~N9V~ is supporting it now that he's being pushed on the matter.

The "But thinking on it, I didn't like JDoge's post. Unvote/Vote: JDodge" is pretty bad. ~N9V~, what about JDodge's post don't you like?

I definitely have my eye on ~N9V~ and we shouldn't drop the ball on this one, I just think we're like a kids soccer team all running towards xyzzy right now. (But in mafia that can be a good thing).

That said, I think that people are going overboard when they say that ~N9V~ is pushing for a quicklynch. I think his original statement that a lynch *can* sometimes be more useful than -1 is valid. It's no reason to skip -1 and go straight to lynch, but it's a true statement.

[JDodge]

Because xyzzy just claimed not-town. I need to go reread some of N9V's posts, but he might be my second or third choice right now.

So? If it's true, then which side is truly good or bad? Doesn't that essentially make it three sides all against each other?

I doubt that it's anything like that. I would imagine, if anything, that said evil is probably a mafia group, whereas any cult might be under the "good" category, leaving the town to decide.

[Spambot]

I based my assumption that there is a town on the fact that I was going entirely off of logic.

Ah, now I see what Spambot's getting at here. You shouldn't assume there's a town, you ought to know. In fact, didn't Xyzzy state earlier that he did

know

(not assume) there were townies? And now he says he assumed there was a town based off logical deduction?

Yes, exactly.

As for your reason for voting me, its either baseless or OMGUS.

Let me explain: When someone hammers, there's the risk of lynching a town.

When someone -1, the only risk is that someone hammers(I suppose this is what you meant)

But hammering would be an anti-town move that would surely only lead to a lynch for the hammerer if the person at -1 doesn't have a suitable time frame to respond to any arguments. So there, -1 is literally risk-free (I was saying it in the context in which N9V said that its best to hammer than to leave it at -1 to gain information) Err do I make myself clear ?

You seem to be implying that townies won't do something stupid like hammering somebody. Doing so is scummy, but it's not entirely unrealistic to expect somebody to make a mistake. Whether it's miscounting how many votes away they are or just not reading the thread, it's not that clearcut.

[Spambot]

I don't see a logical alternative to the non-existence of a town.

If you can come up with a reason why there might not be a town, because I can't see one, please tell me!

You are missing the point. I'm not trying to convince you that your logical conclusion is wrong. I'm saying that you are not-town because town doesn't need to come to a logical conclusion to know there is a town.

Is that clearer?

[Arkest]

xyzzy, you are the only one who ever suggested that there may not be townies.

And JDodge, are you joking about N9V? Or else why does your objection apply to xyzzy but not N9V? And I don't think I've heard of a "good" cult, how would that even work?

[Spambot]

Because xyzzy just claimed not-town. I need to go reread some of N9V's posts, but he might be my second or third choice right now.

So? If it's true, then which side is truly good or bad? Doesn't that essentially make it three sides all against each other?

I doubt that it's anything like that. I would imagine, if anything, that said evil is probably a mafia group, whereas any cult might be under the "good" category, leaving the town to decide.

Really? Until I see evidence of a cult, I'm not going to just assume there is one. What zyxxy said can be interpreted as scum fishing for a cult or a cult member trying to find out if there was a town. Either is possible, but I don't see any reason to assume it means he is in a cult.

At best, aren't cults usually neutral? As far as I can tell if that's true, his win condition doesn't mention a town, so I think he's a good lynch. At worst, he's part of a neutral cult and doesn't have our interests in mind. At best, he's scum or part of an evil cult and we lynch a bad guy on day 1.

[JDodge]

I mean it in a way that those defined in the setup xyzzy mentioned may mean that the "good" is a cult and the "bad" is a mafia, leaving a town that is an actual good, as opposed to theoretical good.

I think that he's a poor choice for today. I think N9V is a much better choice.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You seem to be implying that townies won't do something stupid like hammering somebody. Doing so is scummy, but it's not entirely unrealistic to expect somebody to make a mistake. Whether it's miscounting how many votes away they are or just not reading the thread, it's not that clearcut.

Seeing as how everybody is so active, I doubt there could be any excuses if we explicitly say it because it would clearly be anti-town to hammer if the town unanimously agrees.

[JDodge]

No, Albert, Spambot is right; it's not always certain that someone who hammers in that situation is scum. It's the people who push hardest for a lynch on a hammer like that who are scum.

[Spambot]

You seem to be implying that townies won't do something stupid like hammering somebody. Doing so is scummy, but it's not entirely unrealistic to expect somebody to make a mistake. Whether it's miscounting how many votes away they are or just not reading the thread, it's not that clearcut.

Seeing as how everybody is so active, I doubt there could be any excuses if we explicitly say it because it would clearly be anti-town to hammer if the town unanimously agrees.

Arguing this too much gets into WIFOM, so I'll just drop it and say that you're probably right.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ah, yeah alright. I was addressing Fonz anyway.

[Arkest]

JDodge, why is N9V a good choice? I don't really understand why he voted you, but other than that he hasn't done anything that scummy I can see.

[JDodge]

JDodge, why is N9V a good choice? I don't really understand why he voted you, but other than that he hasn't done anything that scummy I can see.

Please get some reading glasses and get back to me.

If that doesn't work, I'll give you the long version tomorrow.

[Arkest]

Well, now who's not being nice. Let me examine your case against N9V again:

As of now, info. Who does't say that xyzzy isn't scum? So then it would give us info and

a free mafia kill.

Unvote, vote: ~N9V~

NOBODY should be happy about a free night-kill for the scum.

Fonz, let me explain this a little better. JDodge said that if we lynch xyzzy the mafia would get a free kill. I said that there is a chance that he could be scum, so we could get a free mafia killed. But thinking on it,I didn't like JDoge's post.

Unvote/Vote: JDodge

DELAYED REACTION + OMGUS!

It's definite that the scum get a free kill. It's NOT definite that we kill scum if we lynch xyzzy.

Why aren't you all voting ~N9V~?

I mean it in a way that those defined in the setup xyzzy mentioned may mean that the "good" is a cult and the "bad" is a mafia, leaving a town that is an actual good, as opposed to theoretical good.

I think that he's a poor choice for today. I think N9V is a much better choice.

Oh wait, you haven't made one. Your only point against him is where you misread his post about lynching xyzzy as a free mafia kill. Perhaps ironically N9V seems to have misread your post in the opposite way and voted you back, or maybe it is just an OMGUS vote. You also failed to answer my previous question of how "It's definite that the scum get a free kill. It's NOT definite that we kill scum if we lynch xyzzy." somehow doesn't apply to N9V.

Regardless, it's hardly a compelling argument compared to xyzzy all but claiming scum.

[~N9V~]

Here's what I didn't like about his post. Let me bold it for you.

How are you so sure he's scum? I don't think xyzzy is scum.

Oh, that's everything in it. Let me explain further. First he goes off about me supposidly

knowing

that xyzzy is scum. Then he makes the exact same statement, except that he's town. There is only one way that you can be sure that someone is town in a day one with no night zero: thats when your scum and you know who is in who's alliance.

[xyzzy]

I don't see a logical alternative to the non-existence of a town.

If you can come up with a reason why there might not be a town, because I can't see one, please tell me!

You are missing the point. I'm not trying to convince you that your logical conclusion is wrong. I'm saying that you are not-town because town doesn't need to come to a logical conclusion to know there is a town.

Is that clearer?

So I took it from a neutral point of view. Unless you're on my team, I don't want you to know what my alliances are; therefore, I deny myself of any preequipped knowledge and look for the weird possibilities.

It's just my playing style; I'm a better scumhunter when I'm not biased.

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count

Xyzzy 3 (Spambot, Arkest, Whome?)
N9V 3 (Higsby, Jdodge, Albert B Rampage)
Jdodge 2 (The Fonz, N9V)
The Fonz 1 (Blue Zebra)
Spambot 1 (Shadyforce)

Not Voting: Xyzzy, Kabenon

Higsby has also requested replacement. in the meantime, the number of votes required to lynch will still be 7.

[shadyforce]

Sorry, I'm very busy and this game has taken off like a rocket. Never seen to much information to work off in the first 24 hours of a game. I'll get to some proper analysis when I get a chance.

But no, my vote was not random. I reiterate, I haven't had a chance to read and analyse the whole thread, but my gut says that Xyzzy is pro-town and I'm convinced that probably 2 of the first 3/4 people on that bandwagon are information-hunting anti-town players of some desctiption.

More later.

[JDodge]

Here's what I didn't like about his post. Let me bold it for you.

How are you so sure he's scum? I don't think xyzzy is scum.

Oh, that's everything in it. Let me explain further. First he goes off about me supposidly

knowing

that xyzzy is scum. Then he makes the exact same statement, except that he's town. There is only one way that you can be sure that someone is town in a day one with no night zero: thats when your scum and you know who is in who's alliance.

You, too, should invest in some quality reading glasses.

Note how I said I didn't think xyzzy was scum. Where did I ever say anything about xyzzy being town?

[~N9V~]

Hmm, same to you. Where did I say that I was so sure that he was scum? I said that he had a scummy post. I love how condraticting you are JDodge. So if you will, please post where I say that he was scum.

[JDodge]

Hmm, same to you. Where did I say that I was so sure that he was scum? I said that he had a scummy post. I love how condraticting you are JDodge. So if you will, please post where I say that he was scum.

Oh, that's everything in it. Let me explain further. First he goes off about me supposidly knowing that xyzzy is scum. Then he makes the exact same statement, except that he's town. There is only one way that you can be sure that someone is town in a day one with no night zero: thats when your scum and you know who is in who's alliance.

Congratulations, you contradicted yourself with a post that was an answer to the one that contradicts it.