Mini 448: Judgement Day Mafia-Game Over!

[JDodge]

Yes. But that's not the same as saying it outright. For LAL to apply, it would need to be unambiguous what is being said, and similarly clear that it has been proven false. I don't see the sense in speculating on setups you know not to be the case, but it's not an outright lie in the manner that a faked roleclaim is.

It is an outright statement. He admits it with his own words.

You assume that people are just going to come out and say something. 'Tis better to look between the lines.

[Arkest]

I wrote that from a neutral point of view; I know my role, and I know whether or not there are townies, but

the fact that some don't

forces me to speculate as much as possible.

The only role one should know is your own. He state's he knows for a fact that some roles are somehow unaware of the existence of the town. The only logical conclusion I can draw from that is that he is not town.

[Higsby]

No, I'm not assuming anything. You said, "without any action". FoS is action.

Bzzzzzzzt. Wrong. Not what I mean. Entirely not what I mean.

Let me get this straight then, you're taking me to task for

not

being explicit about something, whereas things you

explicitly

say are mutable?

You never said anything that did not condemn xyzzy.

Well, I didn't mean it that way... (italics are quotes from my post #27)

"The first post just made me curious regarding what he knows about the setup of the game."

=> Doesn't condemn xyzzy.

"The second post (#20) just seems like a pretty labored explanation of his original post."

=> Does condemn xyzzy. i.e 'I'm not buying your explanation xyzzy'.

"What I found interesting here is that he claims to have known (at Post #11) that there are others who aren't sure whether or not there are townies."

Doesn't condemn xyzzy. What I'm saying is, 1) is this true?, 2) what would that fact mean regarding xyzzy's role? I don't know. I was kind of hoping someone would chime in on this point.

[~N9V~]

Well, xyzzy is here, let us see what he says.

[~N9V~]

It is a bit of each, of course. If is good in that we can usually get quite a bit of info from -1; it is bad in that someone stupid could hammer before we get said info.

But with the amount of justification from Higsby without any action is bad.

I agree with this, except for the part a -1 gives us more info than a hammer. A -1 can give us absolutly no info at times, when a hammer gives us his allegience, and then we can work from there to determine who attacked him, who defended him, and so on.

[The Fonz]

Yes. But that's not the same as saying it outright. For LAL to apply, it would need to be unambiguous what is being said, and similarly clear that it has been proven false. I don't see the sense in speculating on setups you know not to be the case, but it's not an outright lie in the manner that a faked roleclaim is.

It is an outright statement. He admits it with his own words.

You assume that people are just going to come out and say something. 'Tis better to look between the lines.

You contradict yourself there. Is it an outright statement, or do I have to read between the lines?

If you have to read between the lines, it is not the sort of statement to which LAL applies. It's scummy, certainly. But it's not an actual, proven lie, so LynchAllLiars ought not to be invoked here.

I wrote that from a neutral point of view; I know my role, and I know whether or not there are townies, but

the fact that some don't

forces me to speculate as much as possible.

The only role one should know is your own. He state's he knows for a fact that some roles are somehow unaware of the existence of the town. The only logical conclusion I can draw from that is that he is not town.

He didn't imply he was unaware of the existence of a town, every game has a town. He implied ignorance of whether there were

townies

. Different thing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

He didn't imply he was unaware of the existence of a town, every game has a town. He implied ignorance of whether there were

townies

. Different thing.

What's the difference ? Townies being vanilla townies, you mean ? As in everybody is a mason sort of thing ?

[JDodge]

I agree with this, except for the part a -1 gives us more info than a hammer. A -1 can give us absolutly no info at times, when a hammer gives us his allegience, and then we can work from there to determine who attacked him, who defended him, and so on.

A hammer gives us info and the scum a free kill.

What one's better again?

Fonz, you seem to be defending xyzzy rather adamantly. Why?

[~N9V~]

As of now, info. Who does't say that xyzzy isn't scum? So then it would give us info and a free mafia kill.

[JDodge]

As of now, info. Who does't say that xyzzy isn't scum? So then it would give us info and

a free mafia kill.

Unvote, vote: ~N9V~

NOBODY should be happy about a free night-kill for the scum.

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count

Xyzzy 4 (Spambot, N9V, Arkest, Whome?)
N9V 2 (Higsby, Jdodge)
Albert B Rampage 1 (Kabenon)
The Fonz 1 (Blue Zebra)
Jdodge 1 (The Fonz)
Spambot 1 (Shadyforce)


Not Voting: Xyzzy, Albert B Rampage

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[~N9V~]

I meant that as a free mafia dead.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I agree with this, except for the part a -1 gives us more info than a hammer. A -1 can give us absolutly no info at times, when a hammer gives us his allegience, and then we can work from there to determine who attacked him, who defended him, and so on.

As of now, info. Who does't say that xyzzy isn't scum? So then it would give us info and a free mafia kill.

Vote: N9V

That's absolutely nonsensical, talking about how the hammer is the best play while the game is still at this stage. That, coupled with his free mafia kill retort, tickles my evil detector...

[JDodge]

I meant that as a free mafia dead.

How are you so sure he's scum? I don't think xyzzy is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also, a -1 could give possible claims, incite mafia to act overconfidently, other players can slip, etc.

How is that not risk-free information ?

[Higsby]

I

read

~N9V~'s post as saying that everyone thinks xyzzy is scum, so the lynch would give us a kill of scum. However, you're right, the double negative makes it confusing. I guess I'm not ready to play Lynch-All-Bad-Grammarians though;-)

And yes, it might be premature to say that, but xyzzy is at -2 with two (maybe more?) FoSes.

@JDodge: Do you think xyzzy is town? Or are you undecided for now?

----------------------------
Is this a clue?

the 10 of you have been brought here to make your choice

There are 12 participating.

[Higsby]

EBWOP:

And yes, it might be premature to say that

everyone thinks xyzzy is scum

, but xyzzy is at -2 with two (maybe more?) FoSes. [[/i]

[~N9V~]

Not neccesarily. It doesn't always lead to a claim. I didn't say we should hammer him, I just pointed it out that it can give more info than a -1 can.

[JDodge]

@JDodge: Do you think xyzzy is town? Or are you undecided for now?

You're forgetting the obvious option from his posts. Cult.

Is this a clue?

the 10 of you have been brought here to make your choice

There are 12 participating.

I think this was originally going to be a 10-player setup.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Not neccesarily. It doesn't always lead to a claim. I didn't say we should hammer him, I just pointed it out that it can give more info than a -1 can.

So you want us to -1 and hammer him immediately after ? Isn't that pushing for a quicklynch ?

[~N9V~]

I didn't mention that either...

[Battle Mage]

Is this a clue?

the 10 of you have been brought here to make your choice

There are 12 participating.

I think this was originally going to be a 10-player setup.

yes, when i trialled this game, it was a 10 player game. Its not a clue, just a mod mistake

[Arkest]

If you have to read between the lines, it is not the sort of statement to which LAL applies. It's scummy, certainly. But it's not an actual, proven lie, so LynchAllLiars ought not to be invoked here.

Intentionally deceiving the town, even if you don't outright lie, would still be covered under LAL.

He didn't imply he was unaware of the existence of a town, every game has a town. He implied ignorance of whether there were

townies

. Different thing.

I consider town-aligned power-roles to be covered under the term "townies," hence the term "vanilla townie" for a town-aligned player with no special abilities. I find your interpretation absurd.

FoS: The Fonz

And just a general FYI, xyzzy is at L-3 not L-2. And we should definitely at least get everyone's opinion on the subject before we consider lynching or not.

[JDodge]

I consider town-aligned power-roles to be covered under the term "townies," hence the term "vanilla townie" for a town-aligned player with no special abilities. I find your interpretation absurd.

FoS: The Fonz

And just a general FYI, xyzzy is at L-3 not L-2. And we should definitely at least get everyone's opinion on the subject before we consider lynching or not.

Don't FoS someone because they have a different definition of something than you do. It's not nice.

[Arkest]

Hmm, I should explain better, I am suspicious of him because I think he is defending xyzzy who I think is scum.