Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[Raffles]

@Mneme

Out of 1~5

1. No read on alignment
2. Is scum
3&4. Is a wifom
5. is town.

So from this, what you are suggesting is there is no strong case to suggest that DGB is my scum buddy. In fact, there are far greater number of alternatives. If that is to be the case, then I can't see why DGB is scummy. I find it more of the case that other scums are over-pushing the option 2. Then I find this to be even more the case from your reasoning of how DGB's action is propagating me to the lynch.

[Phoebus]

Vote count:

1 bird1111 (theopor_COD)
2 Battle Mage (Akbar, IH)
1 (Dripping Goofball)
3 mneme (Dripping Goofball, Raffles, Shanba)
1 PBuG (Battle Mage)

6 Raffles (Fuldu, Kison, Mastermind of Sin, Mr. Flay, PBuG, spectrumvoid)

Not voting: 5

10 to lynch

Deadline 1: 1700 GMT Friday May 18

I shall be away till Sat/Sun.

Miss me!

[Mastermind of Sin]

So you think it's highly unlikely that there is a third scum group, but it's highly likely that Mneme is a member of this unlikely third scum group? Right.

Would you like to stop twisting my words into a knot size of the universe? Thanks.

I said he is likely that he is an

antagonist

. I couldn't careless what scum group he is. He could be a 2321st scum group for all I could care.

But if he's scum, how else could he "know" there are three scum groups unless he is NOT mafia or a wolf? Hence, your accusation that he

knows

there are at least 3 groups because he is scum directly implies that you think he is a member of a third scum group, which you have quite adamantly insisted was not a very likely possibility at all.

[mneme]

@Mneme
So from this, what you are suggesting is there is no strong case to suggest that DGB is my scum buddy.

No, I'm suggesting a very strong probability of both of you being scum. You're assuming an equal probability, which just isn't there. The level to which you're coming to her defense (and vice versa) would seem to indicate that you're either masons or scum together -- if you're masons, you're out far enough that you should claim and avoid wasting the town's time/investigations. The fact that you haven't yet points to scum, however.

You're seriously WIFMing here. Sureptitiously linking is usally scummy. DGB has tried and been caught at sureptitiously linking. Therefore, DGB probably scum.

[Raffles]

@mneme - Where am I WIFOMing? I'm pretty sure what I wrote down was pretty straight forward in my head.

@MoS: So? I said it was not a likely possibility. Big deal. Just because it's not likely that I will end up in Australia through quantum fluctuation, it doesn't mean it's not gonna happen. You are adamant that I'm a scum, so at the end of this day, you can stuff those words up your ass.

I hope everyone is noting what I'm being accused of. So far to my knowledge, I've been accused of high probability of: scum, mason and ESE. Mr. Flay has publicly announced he would commit game suicide if I don't turn out antagonist. Any more pledges? Keep them coming, I can start making some money for charity here...

[Raffles]

added point to MoS: Plus, aren't you missing a bigger picture here? I would quite happily die today, make no mistake on that. But mneme may have made a slip there you might want to investigate. What do you think about that?

[Kison]

Shanba's analysis was pretty accurate, I think. If you look back to what I've said myself, they match up pretty closely to what Shanba has also said: Reyo feels like town, DGB's MoS case was bogus. Something interesting was his Scarecrow comment. I hadn't really noticed the lack of content from him, but I guess that tends to happen with people who lurk like that. I didn't really find his vote over my avatar very scummy, since it was, well, in the earlier stages, but the rest I can see.

Raffles : I'm sorry, but your accusation against Mneme is pretty weak. You're making a case over what you consider to be a wording flaw, which I can definitely interpret in more than one way. I'm not sure what this is, a final thrust of desperation?

[Raffles]

@Kison: I made accusation to more than one person. Other of which had been totally ignored. At this moment, I'm starting to think there are overwhelming majority of scums and game mechanics were fucked for towns from the start. What do you think of my case against Pbug?

[Raffles]

And towns, if any are alive watch this. I have been target no.1 from start of this day, attention hardly deviated. This game has some of the most prominent names on this site, who I believe to be better hunters, if they were town. After my death, you might be able to see roughly the number of scums you are dealing with. And I say it's quite a lot.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB has tried and been caught at sureptitiously linking. Therefore, DGB probably scum.

Tried and been caught??? Hahhahhhahhhaha!

Surreptiously?

Why, was my defense of other players hidden in the subtle nuances of my writing? Or was it as obvious Santa's beard?

Good grief mneme, it's about time you READ the game, and put more effort in pretending to be town. Your scumslip is showing.

[DrippingGoofball]

This game has some of the most prominent names on this site, who I believe to be better hunters, if they were town.

I am beginning to get a sinking feeling about Flay, in particular, on account of his sudden lurking as things heat up.

[Mastermind of Sin]

@mneme - Where am I WIFOMing? I'm pretty sure what I wrote down was pretty straight forward in my head.

@MoS: So? I said it was not a likely possibility. Big deal. Just because it's not likely that I will end up in Australia through quantum fluctuation, it doesn't mean it's not gonna happen. You are adamant that I'm a scum, so at the end of this day, you can stuff those words up your ass.

I hope everyone is noting what I'm being accused of. So far to my knowledge, I've been accused of high probability of: scum, mason and ESE. Mr. Flay has publicly announced he would commit game suicide if I don't turn out antagonist. Any more pledges? Keep them coming, I can start making some money for charity here...

added point to MoS: Plus, aren't you missing a bigger picture here? I would quite happily die today, make no mistake on that. But mneme may have made a slip there you might want to investigate. What do you think about that?

Hardly, Raffles. Your logic regarding mneme contradicts itself, that's my point. You can't say that we don't have a third scum group then turn around and vote mneme for being a member of the third scum group. Using your analogy, that's like saying you're not likely to end up in Australia through quantum fluctuation, but then turning around and buying tickets to the Sydney Opera House anyways. Until you can explain the discrepancies in your attack on mneme or withdraw your reasoning, I see no reason to believe he made a "slip", especially since the conclusion he came to about us having at least three scum groups is not only a reasonable one, but one that I have also considered to be the most likely scenario, and we're not alone in this.

[Raffles]

It's hardly a logic, it's contradiction with my earlier argument about 3 scum groups being unlikely. And I conceded at the end that since we can't tell the colour of cult for sure, the existence of cult is then, and only then jsut as likely as there being 2 antagonist groups. (I do remember you pushing the cult agenda like it should be Christianity though)

On this basis I refuse to withdraw my reasoning of accusation of mneme. I mean, why? I don't have a reason to.

The point I'm attacking is he may have

known

there were 3 scum groups. I'm not disputing there shouldn't be 3 groups at all at this moment. You are just bringing that complication in. For what purpose, I don't know. Some sadistic enjoyment?

[Mastermind of Sin]

No, just showing that you're easily changing your colors when it suits your purpose, especially when you smell a chance to derail your wagon onto someone else.

[Raffles]

Oh yea, because I don't want to be lynched. Did you read what I said? I'm quite willing to get myself lynched today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

And yet here you are trying to derail your wagon when you see the opportunity to jump on mneme...fancy that...

[Raffles]

I'm not trying to derail a wagon. I'm leaving as much footprints as I can so when townies (like you, possibly?) come to analyze my posts tomorrow, then they got lots to go on?




Or would you rather just have me shut up because I'm being ever so detrimental to scums?

[Raffles]

Plus, where is the loss if we actually do lynch a scum today? That would be one happy ending, eh?

[mneme]

It's never scummy to try to avoid being lynched (unless you do -specifically- scummy things to so avoid it).

[Raffles]

Mod

: I never asked, but since the post rate is massively high, is it possible to get a deadline retraction?

Vote: retract deadline

@mneme: The scums had it easy on day 1. OTU just shut himself up. Best scenario for scums. I'm not going to do that. Worst case scenario for scum group collectively is a psychotic townie who is hellbent on making his every last minute alive count, whilst being identified at the end of the day that he is a town. More heavy fire I come under, the better.

[theopor_COD]

I'm with Raffles with a deadline retraction if at all possible. Plus some prods 50% of the players have dissapeared, I'm still waiting for N9V to answer my question levelled at him and Bird still hasn't appeared so my vote on him was obviously not enough to shake him out of hiding. I'll re-read the latest pages shortly, but I'd agree the uptake in discussion alone is worth an extension if only so everyone can chime in.

[Raffles]

I'm dismayed by a lack of response for my case against Pbug. Is there anyone out there?

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm dismayed by a lack of response for my case against Pbug. Is there anyone out there?

Where is it?

[Fuldu]

The point I'm attacking is he may have

known

there were 3 scum groups. I'm not disputing there shouldn't be 3 groups at all at this moment. You are just bringing that complication in. For what purpose, I don't know. Some sadistic enjoyment?

Your rationale for this argument is based on an interpretation of mneme's sentence that, to me at least, doesn't seem supportable. "At least" doesn't mean what you're saying it does, and mneme's tone did not seem to exhort certainty nearly so much as it seemed to indicate strong belief. At which point, yes, MoS's suggestion that you're latching onto this bandwagon as an attempt to derail your own seems reasonable.

[TBuG]

Oh alright then, if you want to know, I have slight suspicion on Pbug.

He has so far accused both OTU and I for same reason. The lurkishness. I've been noticing it's hypocritical nature because when you isolate his posts, his posts really lacks in content. Indeed the only post of anything meaningful he made has been a one against me.

As individual players, regardless of the game's flow, Raffles has been exceptionally scummy through this entire game. He brilliantly distracted with the argument abou XReyoX's noobishness on Day 1, which became oh so much longer than it ever needed to be.

I don't see any of that, that was merely a random voting stage banter.

When the discussion is not going his way, he attempts the change the subject. When things still don't go his way, he quotes his post in which he attempts to change the subject several times, bolding and enlarging various parts of it, using sledgehammer and wrecking ball analogies along the way.

If you are talking about you guy's loaded questions of "but you are lying aren't you", then yes. I might have got a little irate.

Then a metagame post, making assumptions about the number of scum, not at all considering the balance of the game in terms of pro-town power roles.

What's people's problem with metagaming? I don't see anyone else complaining about me trying to guess what the set up of this game maybe, that was the whole thing with ESE, remember? People speculating if there could be a cult involved? Now how unbalanced is that, 2 scum groups and a cult. I don't see people bitching about that.

He actively lurks when he isn't acting out,

Speak for yourself.

his vote on OTU floating along unnoticed without any ascertainable reasoning.

There was a reasoning, you just refused to take it in.

Oh so often he appears to post because he can.

Yes I post because I can. I also post in vein to try to help the town win. Problems? Maybe you'd prefer me to shut up and lurk so you can lurk with me.

Once he actually posts reasoning, there is the giant hypocrisy of 'I can't really extract any useful contribution to the town from him, despite the number of posts he may have made more than most.'

Well it's true isn't it? At least my posts are somewhat more fruitiful than yours.

His vote does come off next post, I'll give him that. He gets stuck on ESE for a little while. Then a very long period of no real contribution. He does make the stunning point against MoS that despite the long stall on OTU's wagon, OTu was town. Now some bickering with MoS. His more recent actions have content, but only because he's arguing against a particular player.

Long period of no post... oh look maybe you missed this?

As of Apr 8

Okay I'm going to have a restricted access starting immediate until 16th. I may or may not be able to post once a day. I hope you don't find a need to replace me.

If I die, I'll prove to you for second time the stalling votes are some good indication of someone not worth a lynch. And a good chance of being a town at that.

This is Raffles's argument, he basically calls me a hypocrite.