Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[DrippingGoofball]

Sshhhh Raffles. Do not interfere with my psychological torture of Mneme. I wanted him to go and look at the game... after he actually reads it, and realizes how scummy he's been behaving, he will be bound by honor to vote for himself.

[Shanba]

mneme: the few posts he did make are scummy. Any player can say more than "I agree with you". It stinks of scum trying to fit in.

[mneme]

Goofball: BM was really scummy on day 1. He's been very helpful and played well today. Therefore, my assumption is "not scummy". But since he was pretty scummy on day 1, he got a ding.

FWIW, I suspect one reason this game reads wierdly is that it's got (with, based on on the title and the deaths, at least three scum groups) a huge purportion of scum. I'm not -- but I wouldn't be all that suprised if many of the people I find seriously scummy are. I'd guess this game started about half scum -- give or take -- just looking at the numbers.

[Raffles]

At least means 100% sure. What gives you 100% proof of three scum groups?

[mneme]

Ok, Raffles. Do you have a role claim or something else of relevance?

I thought you read the game, haha. Not noticing roleclaims or lack thereof, are we?

Wow. How just smart and cogent of you. I -must- have meant "have you claimed", not "are you about to claim?" You is teh funny.

You're right -- I shouldn't be voting for Raffles.

unvote
vote DGB (obvious scum

[mneme]

Raffles: the game's called "mafia vs werewolves". That points to two. " ESE Member" doesn't seem to link to either mafia nor werewolves, but as framed is another scum group. Thus at least three. Is this 100% sure? Of course not; Phoeb could be messing with our heads. But it's the best I got.

On top of that, the vibe I'm getting from this game seems to indicate many scum, not few. Might be off, but probably not.

[Battle Mage]

fyi-its my opinion that as scum, it is good to put suspicion on your buddies, but not to actually vote for them.
This could well be what Mneme is doing here. Of course, that is largely dependant on whether or not he is scum, but its my first thoughts.

When a scum points to 3 people they find scummy, I like to look for the "exception" in the lot. I am "très scummy" and raffles is "obvious scum" but he has mere "mixed feelings" for you, BM. This being said, I don't find this to be compelling evidence that you may be scum, at all. Just a tiny tickmark next to your name.

If Mneme's post contained some INSIGHT I would not look for these little details. It looks like he read nothing, and just tossed these little accusations that he thought would not stand out. I bet he's pretty shocked that I jumped on him so quickly, since his post was carefully designed not to offend.

How much work did Mneme really put in to conclude that Raffles, BM and myself are scum? None whatsoever. And if he didn't put any effort into it, and hasn't read the thread with looking for scum in mind, I have to wonder why BM gets a "mixed feelings" break. Since Mneme is out to deceive us, what is his purpose? Distancing - but not downright bussing? But he could also be wanting to cast suspicions on all 3 of us, and simply used different wording to give a fake appearance of variety.

[Raffles]

You are contradicting yourself. At least means "minimum of". This means you

know

there are three scum groups. I can say there are at least two antagonist groups, with possibility of three.


At this moment, I am pretty convinced that mneme is an antagonist, if SK, mafia, wolf, ESE, whatever.

Vote: mneme

[Raffles]

Battle mage, what did I previously tell you?

[Battle Mage]

i have no idea. please reiterate it for me.

[mneme]

You are contradicting yourself.

You are playing horribly. And no, I'm not.

At least means "minimum of".

Yes. I think there are a minimum of three scum groups -- ESE (whatever they are) werewolves, and mafia.

"At least" doesn't mean "I know" anything. It's a quantifier, not an emphasizer.

This kind of garbage, Raffles, is why I was voting you and why I will again.

Mafia isn't a game of semantics -- it's a game of deduction, comittment, and colletive behavior.

[Raffles]

You are playing horribly.

Same could be said for yourself.

"At least" doesn't mean "I know" anything. It's a quantifier, not an emphasizer.

This kind of garbage, Raffles, is why I was voting you and why I will again.

Mafia isn't a game of semantics -- it's a game of deduction, comittment, and colletive behavior.

You are still not making sense. You can't mix "at least", and "I think" together. At least means there is a known minimum, I think means you don't know for sure.

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm arguing the possibility that you might have slipped and said more than you should have.

[Battle Mage]

raffles, answer my question.

[mneme]

You are still not making sense. You can't mix "at least", and "I think" together.

Yes, you can. I did, in fact. It's -obvious- that this game has at least three scum groups, just by reading the thread. That it's not obvious to you is actually rather odd. "obvious" might be wrong -- but that's another matter.

Please answer BM's question.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You are contradicting yourself. At least means "minimum of". This means you

know

there are three scum groups. I can say there are at least two antagonist groups, with possibility of three.


At this moment, I am pretty convinced that mneme is an antagonist, if SK, mafia, wolf, ESE, whatever.

Vote: mneme

Am I the only one noticing the irony of Raffles voting someone because he thinks they're a member of a third scum group?

[Raffles]

Dear Battle Mage May 09 2007

First I would like to show my appreciation of your scumhunting. It is giving us information, which is always beneficial for the town.

However, I would like to give you a constructive criticism on your technique. Currently you are guessing at the alignment of other players, based on presumption that I am a scum.

I do not appreciate this, for reasons that might seem obvious. This is because if I turn up as a town, then all your speculation to-date is a waste of time. Since I'm looking to be the likely lynch at the moment, and since I know my own alignment, this is highly unadvisable. Should I turn up as a scum, then you are free to speculate all this in Day 3.

I am not about to convince you that I am a town. I think it is a little too late for that. But should you need to take a stab at someone, please make your best use on what remains of my life and assess the interactions of other players with me.

Kind Regards

Raffles





I tried blunt approach, I tried formal approach, take your pick.

[Raffles]

@MoS: I never ruled out the possibility of 3rd. Or if I did, I put it back in highly unlikely category. You should know this since this is what we've been bickering.

[Shanba]

I think it's still possible that there are only two scum groups, but I will say again that I don't think this speculation is helpful now. Especially when we're finally getting somewhere with the whole scumhunting thing.

I want to say that the only thing making me uncomfortable about my vote on mneme currently is having dgb on the wagon with me. I reckon both of the are scum, from rival groups.

[Battle Mage]

err as a note: IM NOT VOTING FOR YOU. There is a reason for that, I AM BY NO MEANS CONVINCED THAT YOU ARE SCUM. I am a little confused as to why you seem to think i am attacking you. I dont even think i have been making assumptions based on you being scum-which is far from certain imo.
im going to plead ignorance here. Please refer me to the actual posts of mine that you are referring to.
BM

[mneme]

Raffles: the problem is, the -primary- driver of your bandwagon (at least in my eyes) isn't anything you've done -- it's DBG's opposition to it.

There are very few things you can say about yourself in thread that are inherently scummy (yes, there are some things). But flat out "noooo! Anybody but Y!" defense is very scummy -- it indicates one of:

1. Defender is being unreasonable.
2. Defender is a scum-buddy.
3. Defender is trying to make a link where none exists (ie, scum prepping cop claim or the like).
4. D is Cop.
5. D and Y are Masons.

We pretty much need a lynch or claim to get an idea of which it is -- so that's where focus/speculation is. It is, of course, possible that one of the possiblities that inidicates you are town is shown -- that too is interesting.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So you think it's highly unlikely that there is a third scum group, but it's highly likely that Mneme is a member of this unlikely third scum group? Right.

[Raffles]

Ahh, I'm getting you confused with MoS. (What does that say about you two?)

MoS and Kison attacks DGB on basis that I am a scum and DGB is trying to derail my wagon. Then you cast your suspicion on mneme

fyi-its my opinion that as scum, it is good to put suspicion on your buddies, but not to actually vote for them.
This could well be what Mneme is doing here. Of course, that is largely dependant on whether or not he is scum, but its my first thoughts.

besed on assumption DGB was a scum. I thought that stemmed off from me being scum.

[Raffles]

So you think it's highly unlikely that there is a third scum group, but it's highly likely that Mneme is a member of this unlikely third scum group? Right.

Would you like to stop twisting my words into a knot size of the universe? Thanks.

I said he is likely that he is an

antagonist

. I couldn't careless what scum group he is. He could be a 2321st scum group for all I could care.

[mneme]

fyi-its my opinion that as scum, it is good to put suspicion on your buddies, but not to actually vote for them.

FWIW, I don't think this is correct, but in the interests of not telling the scum how to play, I'd prefer to not spend too much time on it.

[mneme]

Agreeing with people is the only thing Scarecrow did all game.

O'Rilly?

The thing is, Flay, that

everyone

should want to stay off of the lurker list; scum or not.

Frankly, after you die, you shouldn't post

anything

, but people like to post things like "Damn, go town."

None of that's "only agreeing with people". Sure, he didn't post much, and sure, he eventually went idle and needed to be replaced (seems active enougn in his two current games, though.

But this isn't the only game he was just agreeing people with around that time, nor was that (barely) all he did.