Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Except that your switching to me was based on my pointing out the same thing MoS just did, which you happen to claim you're also in agreement with. As a result, your motive contradicts its action.

Your vote on Kison isn't because of any suspicion that he's scum.

Incorrect. MoS's poorly thought out support of Kison's fallacy is noted.

================

My vote on Kison is based on this post:

Is this some kind of slick attempt of yours, DGB, to break the Raffles wagon? I don't see much of a reason to go for the other two of your candidates. In fact, you are second on my list, just based on earlier developments, but even you are a weak case.

I have already explained that I am not hugely keen on the Raffles wagon. In light of his continued good behavior today, I do believe that he might be a townie worth keeping. Since I hold this opinion, it is not surprising that I find value in competing wagons. Whether Raffles turns up scum or town later, it will make this day a more informative one.

Kison's post raised the possibility that he might be a scum frustrated with my efforts. He would only be frustrated if one of PBuG and BM were scum. I know this is ironic, but Kison's post could be interpreted as a slick attempt to break a PBuG or BM wagon before it really got started, and re-ignite the Raffles wagon at the same time. Add to that a declaration that I am now "second" on his "list,"the paucity of logic, and prominent lack of insight leads me to believe that he might not be a townie.

You seem to be far more concerned with creating

any

competing bandwagon than actually lynching scum today, DGB. That's the difference. You are concerned about Raffles in particular being the leading bandwagon, which insinuates that there is a connection between you two. Instead of going about looking for scum and posting analysis and trying to find a better lynch for today, you concerned yourself with telling us that we need to just start beefing up the other bandwagons, without much reason for choosing them in particular except for the fact that they're the next 2 vote-getters. You seem far more intent on saving Raffles from lynch than actually finding scum today.

[DrippingGoofball]

You seem to be far more concerned with creating

any

competing bandwagon than actually lynching scum today, DGB. That's the difference. You are concerned about Raffles in particular being the leading bandwagon, which insinuates that there is a connection between you two. Instead of going about looking for scum and posting analysis and trying to find a better lynch for today, you concerned yourself with telling us that we need to just start beefing up the other bandwagons, without much reason for choosing them in particular except for the fact that they're the next 2 vote-getters. You seem far more intent on saving Raffles from lynch than actually finding scum today.

You're adorable.

The only connection is that I believe there is a greater chance Raffles may be town, than scum. Incidentally, I think a Raffles lynch would be most informative, especially if he is town, because I am challenging it, and people are reacting differently to the challenge to Raffles' wagon.

[TBuG]

I agree with MoS. DGB, you are being completely unhelpful.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not necessarily unhelpful, but her professed reasons for doing what she did do not match up with the actions taken, to say the least.

[mneme]

Hmm. Shana's vote hopping/lack of content is kind of disturbing (something I found an issue in her recent posts even before I realized she'd tried to vote me).

Sorry for the lack of (more) substantial content -- it's a big game with some very frequent posters -- which makes it very hard to get a strong read on anyone. And the fact that we know there are at least two scum groups makes it even harder -- there are a -lot- of scum in this game, and not a lot of hard info.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Try just picking a random person and reading through their posts in isolation, mneme. It takes less time, and it's less daunting of a task than reading the whole thread and analyzing it.

[mneme]

Oh, as I mentioned in my first post, I've read the whole thread -- did so when Phoebus said he might need me to replace. It's just that with certain subthreads taking up lots and lots of space, it's hard to get a hard read on anyone aside from raffles (obvious scum), BM (mixed -- but not having played with him, some of this may be playstyle), DGB (seems tres scummy), and a bare few more.

[Shanba]

uh, just one thing I would say is that I am indeed male... >.<

Anyway, I will lay out my case for Scarecrow/albert/mneme.

Good point. I'll take advantage of your point to cover up the fact that I'm been lazy about looking for scum and

unvote: Kison

vote: Raffles

Good Point.

I agree with you there.

Agreeing with people is the only thing Scarecrow did all game. Lurking is one thing, lurking then popping up to agree with someone is quite another. He has voted for three people: Kison for no reason then because he has an ugly avatar (random vote), Raffles because Flay said so and then because he thought he was scummy on a read through and OTU for no stated reason. I find this sort of lurking much more suspicious than simply being inactive for long periods of time.

Albert's only post was to ask for a reason why I suspected him, yet I had posted this in my opening post:

Scarecrow is so scummy it's not funny. Seriously, look at his posts in isolation, he's not just lurking but casually agreeing with people while trying to avoid garnering any sort of attention. I can't wait to grill his replacement (though Remus wasn't much better, to be honest XD)

My reasons are explicit: his lurking tempered with casually agreeing with people while trying to fly under the radar.

mneme has managed to since replacing hop onto the largest bandwagon and agree with everyone else who finds me suspicious. I can see no trace of an independent thought process there. (oh, and in case my vote didn't count because I voted for his predecessor,

Vote: mneme

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh, as I mentioned in my first post,

I've read the whole thread -- did so when Phoebus said he might need me to replace.

It's just that with certain subthreads taking up lots and lots of space, it's hard to get a hard read on anyone aside from raffles (obvious scum), BM (mixed -- but not having played with him, some of this may be playstyle), DGB (seems tres scummy), and a bare few more.

Judging from mneme's "conclusions," I believe that the sentence I bolded is a complete crock. He didn't read the game at all. He just picked a few people that made the headlines late in the game, and the most obvious ones at that, namely, Raffles, BM, and myself. He did not mention MoS or PBuG. No mention of anything that heppened yesterday. His "mixed feelings" about BM aren't to BM's credit, if mneme turns up scum.

mneme doesn't need to look for scum, he knows who they are. Until now I was mainly testing some of the players with my votes, and I'd like to give this one the mother of all tests:

vote: mneme

[mneme]

DGB: I didn't mention MoS because your attack on him was a complete crock. I didn't mention PBUG because I -still- don't know what's up with his bandwagon. I only mentioned the people who are actually acting suspicous. Including you.

[mneme]

And, er, shamba? If you're going to ding me because scarecrow was a lousy player (as seen by, you know, him needing to be replaced), well...pot. Kettle. Black.

Watch the bandwagon on me, people -- it's a really good clue as to who Raffles' buddies are.

[DrippingGoofball]

And, er, shamba? If you're going to ding me because scarecrow was a lousy player (as seen by, you know, him needing to be replaced), well...pot. Kettle. Black.

Watch the bandwagon on me, people -- it's a really good clue as to who Raffles' buddies are.

Exactly the kind of "defense" I expect from scum. It's a classic.

[mneme]

And DGB? It took me four days to read through this bloody thread. Four. Don't you people have something else to do? Calling me a liar after all this work doesn't merit an FOS (or changing my vote) -- it just pisses me off.

[Raffles]

Now isn't that an appeal to emotion?

[mneme]

Exactly the kind of "defense" I expect from scum. It's a classic.

*yawn*.

It's not a defense. You're trying a classic redirection, have been for days, and the bandwagon on me is an interesting example of same.

I don't need to defend myself against you, DGB. Except, of course, at night.

[Battle Mage]

His "mixed feelings" about BM aren't to BM's credit, if mneme turns up scum.

vote: mneme

i dont like this post atall. Not because it mentions me, but moreso because of the lack of recognition of its significance for DGB herself. IF Mneme comes up town, that reflects VERY badly on you, who, despite being called very scummy, has yet to recieve a vote.
Im not saying Mneme is town (i think i should reread him on that) but i think your post has the air of scumbuddy who wants to plan the next days lynch.
BM

[DrippingGoofball]

And DGB? It took me four days to read through this bloody thread. Four. Don't you people have something else to do? Calling me a liar after all this work doesn't merit an FOS (or changing my vote) -- it just pisses me off.

Four days of reading and that's all you can come up with? If I could vote you twice, I would.

[Raffles]

WILL EVERYONE STOP JUMPING INTO CONCLUSIONS ON ASSUMPTIONS THAT I AM A SCUM?

[Shanba]

mneme: me calling you scum has nothing to do with whether or not scarecrow is a "lousy" player. It's more that he's horribly scummy. Did you read my post?

[mneme]

Oh, actually a few things -- (remembered, since my read through was over a week before I actually joined the game--yeah, I should have taken notes): The red is almost certainly a scum sign. I'm curious about what ESE could mean.

It feels fairly similar to the "Empire of Rome" thing in Phoebus's Asterix game (though there, brackets gave the romans away). Whether it's a cult or a killing group? Don't know, don't care.

[DrippingGoofball]

i dont like this post atall. Not because it mentions me, but moreso because of the lack of recognition of its significance for DGB herself. IF Mneme comes up town, that reflects VERY badly on you, who, despite being called very scummy, has yet to recieve a vote.
Im not saying Mneme is town (i think i should reread him on that) but i think your post has the air of scumbuddy who wants to plan the next days lynch.
BM

When a scum points to 3 people they find scummy, I like to look for the "exception" in the lot. I am "très scummy" and raffles is "obvious scum" but he has mere "mixed feelings" for you, BM. This being said, I don't find this to be compelling evidence that you may be scum, at all. Just a tiny tickmark next to your name.

If Mneme's post contained some INSIGHT I would not look for these little details. It looks like he read nothing, and just tossed these little accusations that he thought would not stand out. I bet he's pretty shocked that I jumped on him so quickly, since his post was carefully designed not to offend.

How much work did Mneme really put in to conclude that Raffles, BM and myself are scum? None whatsoever. And if he didn't put any effort into it, and hasn't read the thread with looking for scum in mind, I have to wonder why BM gets a "mixed feelings" break. Since Mneme is out to deceive us, what is his purpose? Distancing - but not downright bussing? But he could also be wanting to cast suspicions on all 3 of us, and simply used different wording to give a fake appearance of variety.

[mneme]

Ok, Raffles. Do you have a role claim or something else of relevance?

And Shamba? Scarecrow wasn't horribly scummy -- he was just lousy. He showed up, didn't contribute pretty much anything, and left. Lousy. He didn't -do- anything of relevance; he wasn't even present enough to be a lurker.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh, actually a few things -- (remembered, since my read through was over a week before I actually joined the game--yeah, I should have taken notes): The red is almost certainly a scum sign. I'm curious about what ESE could mean.

It feels fairly similar to the "Empire of Rome" thing in Phoebus's Asterix game (though there, brackets gave the romans away). Whether it's a cult or a killing group? Don't know, don't care.

Wow. I love this.

Could you be more obvious?

Is this to try to convince us you actually read the game? Now, you read a whole more than a week ago, didn't take notes, and you're bringing back that long dead ESE argument, that was pretty left to settle on its own?

I really love this.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ok, Raffles. Do you have a role claim or something else of relevance?

I thought you read the game, haha. Not noticing roleclaims or lack thereof, are we?

[Raffles]

no claim yet.