Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mr Stoofer]

"New Page" Vote Count

Nightfall: 4 (Ether Glork CES Patrick)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 3 (Nightfall MBL Thesp)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (Mgm)

Not voting: Zindaras

Looking for

5

votes for a lynch!

21 hours, 18 minutes until deadline!

[Mr Stoofer]

Deadline extended by majority request!

New Deadline:

Monday 21st May 5pm BST!

[Patrick]

Unvote

in light of the new deadline.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Zindaras

[Glork]

MBL, could you please point out what post(s) Nightfall has made that "scum could not possibly make" and could you explain exactly why you don't think he could/would post as such if he were scum?

[Glork]

EBWODP: Actually, do the same with Patrick, Ether, and MGM, too, please.

[MrBuddyLee]

Thanks for the homework. Like I said, it was something I noted at the time but didn't write down. I'll see if I can spot those posts when I have time, but off the top of my head, for Patrick it was a post where he got pissed about something and for Nightfall it was one of his PBPA posts.

[Glork]

....



Pro-Tip, MBL: When you find something definitive as "no person could make this post as scum,"

note where you found this tell.

I would think that by now, you'd realize that making such a bold statement would eventually elicit an inquiry or two as to what extreme pro-town tell you found.

[Mgm]

Mgm - what do you think is the best play right now?

I've said before that I trust you, MBL and Glork about as far as I can throw you, but if none of you reach the chopping block, it's got to be Ether.

[Patrick]

Mgm, that question was asked really in context of the deadline, which has now disappeared anyway.

[Mr Stoofer]

Mgm, that question was asked really in context of the deadline, which has now disappeared anyway.

It hasn't disappeared; it's just having a sit-down and a cup of tea. It 'll be back soon.

[Patrick]

I apologise for innacurate wording. I'm sure he wouldn't have had a clue what I was trying to say
On the MBL thing, I have an idea what it might be for myself and Nightfall. It would be interesting to see which post it is for Ether though.

[Mgm]

Mgm, that question was asked really in context of the deadline, which has now disappeared anyway.

My views don't really change much based on a deadline.

The point was that I disliked the current bandwagon and that pretty much the only person I'd be willing to lynch at deadline if one of my own suspects isn't strung up would be Ether.

[Nightfall]

Still here, and still wanting to lynch CES or Ether.

[MrBuddyLee]

Zindaras should be lynched.

Discuss.

[Thesp]

Zindaras should be lynched.

Discuss.

Can we lynch him and CES?

[Glork]

Why?

[Patrick]

Vote: Zindaras

no reason not to go back to my top suspect with deadline extended.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Nightfall: 3 (Ether Glork CES )
Cogito Ergo Sum: 2 (Nightfall Thesp)
Zindaras: 2 (MBL Patrick)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (Mgm)

Not voting: Zindaras

Looking for

5

votes for a lynch!

Deadline:

Monday 21st May 5pm BST!

[Mgm]

Unvote:MBL; Vote:Ether

Apparently trying to have MBL lynched is a waste of my time, so I'll aim for something more feasible.

[Glork]

Vote: Zindaras

no reason not to go back to my top suspect with deadline extended.

Why?

[Patrick]

You mean why is he my top suspect?

There are several reasons, and alot of it is already dispersed throughout the thread. I started being suspicious of him on page 32, where I talked about it in posts 797 and 799. (How do you link to a certain post?)

His accusation there seemed off, and he never tried to respond or follow it up, which seems to me more likely what scum would do, and makes it hard to believe he really had that suspicion of me. In fact the next post he made after that was a Thesp vote just to make deadline.

When I look over his posts afresh he seemed suprisingly confident that AndrewS would turn up town.

I dislike his push on spectrumvoid on day 1, as has been discussed before. The only reason he's given for this fanatisism is that her post 111 was a "scumtell". I don't really see that, and Zindaras like me has tons of experience playing with spectrumvoid. She didn't seem particularly out of the ordinary, though she was kind of an easy target. In any case, I find it hard to believe he thought that post by her was the scummiest thing on the board.

On day 2, most of what I remember from Zindaras was wagon hopping, potshot at me, and lurking.

On day 3 he pretty much ignored the discussion of CDB and his claim. He didn't express suspicion of CDB before that, yet one or two of his posts near the end of the day look like he's already planning for the future, attempting to connect Glork to CDB (assumes CDB is scum and a goon as noted then). Now to me, it looks like he's trying to use Glork's reputation as a massive busthrower against him here. It seems counterintuitive to assume that someone who played a good part in busting a scum should themselves be scum. Glork came onto CDB second if I recall, with Thesp being the initial pusher. I believe if Glork was scum, he wouldn't have had any great incentive to bus CDB when he made his long stream of consciousness posts. Up until then, the pressure on CDB was coming from one person mainly. And Glork certainly had alot of other possible targets to attack if he was scum. CDB clearly played the lurking scum kind of game, which succeeded to some extent in getting people to overlook him, and I don't see why a scumbuddy would need to bus him at that point. It seems like Zindaras's suspicion of CDB came entirely because of the roleblocker claim, which is one of the easiest ways to bus a scumbuddy.

Then again he starts to pull back a bit on the Glork/CDB connection thing. Maybe realised he can't push that very far, or maybe a townie who just genuinely changed his mind. No particular read on that.

Nothing much to note on day 4, except for the beginning of his analysis. It was pretty thorough for such an early stage of the game, which implied he was going to spend some serious time doing the rest of the game later. But I think he has real life issues right now. The absence these past weeks is inconvenient, but I don't read anything into it because his activity has been low around the site.

My suspicion of him comes from days 1-3. I haven't made an exhaustive list of all the things I disagree with him on, or comments he made that struck me weird, because it would take forever. But he hasn't been on my brainwaves much in this game. When he's not contributing stuff I disagree with, he's usually been lurking or just hopping around. Feels like the ideal scum strategy. I can't really think of anything that strikes me as protown about his play, whereas I can for most other players in this game.

---

Glork, do you think Zindaras is protown? What do you think of Nightfall's recent posts?

[Glork]

I don't know about Zindaras yet. I want summary cases against him so that, in the next few days, I can review them myself and see where I actually stand. I've wavered on Zindaras a lot lately, and more than anything I just wish he were around to answer the questions being asked of him. My only thought right now is that if he's not going to show up, and if he'll be modkilled at the end of the day, we might as well lynch him now and potentially save ourselves from having to No-Lynch down the road.

Nightfall's posts bother me. If you'll notice, his most recent suspicions have been CES, Glork (to a lesser extent), and Ether. I find it interesting that in Post 1326, the VC shows the three of us voting Nightfall, and in 1328, Nightfall continues his quest against Ether (they've been sparring all game) but adds that last sentence that Glork/CES are "giving [him] grave concerns." It feels like nothing more than mass OMGUS to me. Everyone who suspects Nightfall is suspicious. Nightfall, could you recap your case against CES please? Why do you think he is scum? Why do you want him lynched?


I'm also waiting for MBL to outline his case against Zindaras. I am especially interested in hearing his opinions.

[Thesp]

Why?

Largely his reactions to me and especially to ChannelDelibird. He practically ignores the discussion surrounding ChannelDelibird when it's at the most volatile. I'm also compelled by the proposed scum argument on the Thesp-lynch failure:

I reread Ether's posts surrounding the failure to Thesp-lynch and don't think her dithering looks guaranteed genuine. Your logic that she's not scum because she didn't hammer in a hammerable situation would imply that MBL, Nightfall, Thesp, Patrick, Ether are protown and the remaining scum are in {CES, MGM, Glork, Zindy}. I see Glork and MgM as significantly townish, which would narrow that list to {CES, Zindy} in my eyes.

I also think his failure to show up is potentially induced by the fact he's in a difficult (perhaps even paralyzing) situation as scum.

[Ether]

Ether "okay with a Zindilynch". Followed by a post with pretty much no analytical content about Zindy.

Town: All right, where were we?
Glork: Zindie or Nightfall dies.
Thesp: Or CES.
Glork: Or CES.
Patrick: Zindie.
Mgm: MBL, Glork or Patrick. (You people are

so

bandwagon.)
Patrick: Nuh-uh.
Ether: Zindie or Nightfall. No CES.

I'm aware that my defense here is "It was

convention

(and Zindie was in second place anyway)," but I'm not sure what the problem was.

on Ether: paints more vividly, alternatively attacking and defending. Points out "misunderstanding" by Ether twice and "don't know if this is scummy in itself". Appears to be genuinely trying to ascertain the nature of Ether's attacks.

Actually--this was what bothered me on Day 2, and I still find it valid. Nightfall agreed and disagreed with my actions, which is fine and good as a supplement but didn't in this case tie into my alignment.

Why is she so eager to take Andrew’s word and lash out against those that believe otherwise?

There's the

one point

that might imply something sinister was going on, and Nightfall didn't really follow up on it until a weak "You're right, Glork; scum

do

defend town sometimes!" in his GlorkPBP. I found it disturbing that this was the only point he had on the person at the top of his List.

Uh...regarding CES/Nightfall's argument, I should

hope

that this is the sort of town that would be concerned at least a little with someone wasting three days of its life on a towngoer and doing little else. I'm not saying you should lynch me if Nightfall's town, but it was stupid to hinge that debate around his personal opinion at all.

That considered, CES appeared to have promoted me since the Move--I was previously on his "maybe" list with only two other non-Nightfall people. 'Something happen?

I'd still be happiest killing Nightfall, as his recent posts have been purely emotional appeals: he has neither provided recent rationale/further scumhunting efforts nor addressed a single point against him without blatant misdirection. (1311 comes to mind, where MBL suggested he was worried about Glork's paragonal wrath and Nightfall said that he wouldn't have wanted Glorkscum to mislead him. There was also the bit deleted in the Move, where I paraphrased three of his quotes about the deadline no-lynch; he said only that it implied Ether/Thesp and never spoke of it again.)

There's nothing now that would make me revise my stance on Nightfall based on Zindaras's alignment or vice versa. A Zindiemodkill wouldn't bother me, but I don't see it as a reason to wait a day for the next lynch.