Tales of You (Endgame)


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Post Post #3475 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:30 pm

Post by MastinSSK »

Err...
In post 3472, Clyton wrote:You ruthlessly continue your attacks on me, but you make no case to defend yourself, which I believe you have even said so earlier in the game.
Yep! And believe me. It's not because I can't defend myself. I can. It's because me being town is so fucking self-evident that I don't even really need to bother putting in the effort.
What if your attacks doesn't break this defensive wall I put up?
If at first you don't succeed...
Try, try again.
Which, thanks to my role, I can.

(Or I could just get PV lynched and become obvtown because me bussing remains an abnormality in my play which while not impossible is still unusual.)
Then you expose yourself to being attacked by others.
Sure do. Don't give a damn. See, that's the thing about town players on MS.net. (Again, gods, I wish I could scumread you for this, even though culture clash is far more likely the answer.) They don't care about others scumreading them. They care
about lynching scum
, and devote all their effort to it.
You're really no threat and many have their accusations against you, some more hidden than mines.
I love it when scum call me not a threat. It really has a way of blowing up in their faces.
If I read your analysis and continued to make such a statement, then that would lead to this; exposing myself in the more public open. Yet I still did just that.
The problem is that you're insisting it doesn't exist, and have flat-out called me not a threat. You think you have the edge over me. You don't think pushing me will backfire, and you think that in a fight, you'll win because you think that no matter how town I look, your logic will be superior. That gives you plenty enough reason to 'risk' it, given that there's enough players potentially supporting you that you don't think you'd catch flak.

Oh, and by the way. A lot of your points against my points aren't direct counters, but are more misdirections. Wish I could explain that.

(Not spoilering this one. 'Cause I didn't feel like it.)
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Post Post #3476 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:35 pm

Post by Rancid Broderick Drake »

BAAAAAAARGH
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Post Post #3477 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:39 pm

Post by Clyton »

In post 3473, MastinSSK wrote:
Spoiler: Clyton wall
I cannot assume the credibility of anyone's reads, and I ask that others would do the same with mines.
For someone claiming to not assume the credibility of anyone's reads...you sure have asked for a lot of players to trust in the credibility of townreads on you.

Are you sure you got that statement right? Reference some proof; it is your responsibility to show proof in your attacks against me.

I ask you refer to me such posts that indicates such behaviour.
Let's see. The massive wall war with AP. The fact that I fullclaimed, giving up on fighting to get myself nightkilled. My snarking towards players like DesBRO and F-16. The list goes on and on. It was in my iso long before it was in Rancid's. You coulda made a better case for Rancid copying me than you could for me being different from his.

War with AP: looking back at it, nothing stood out to me. I was under the assumption that was how you always acted, not because you are frustrated to the point of giving up.
Fullclaim: you admitted that you gave up on fighting so you can get nightkilled, which was part of your strategy since the beginning. Not a lot of people can differentiate if you were truly frustrated or you were enacting that strategy. Also, fullclaiming doesn't mean you give up on this game.
Rancid: he more effectively vented out his frustrations that even I can notice it through a quick skim/no analysis look.

To be fair, you did not have much of a defense during the time I issued such a suggestion to orc.
Bullfuckingshit. Both Kagura and Rancid have been insisting I'm town (WITH REASONS!) for most of the fucking game.

Apparently from my memory, this occurred much earlier. I already discussed RBD and his hypothetical lack of credibility, and Kagura is not in a good spot assumingly as he is getting assaulted from his neighbours because of his late appearance in Day 1 when the wagon was nearing its end.

You are attacking me on a ground where it is not applicable to the game at hand.
And now you know the crux of what I've been saying about the scumreads on me all fucking game.

You could've clearly stated this in a more dialogical manner and people would have come to understand you. I already mentioned why people are misunderstanding you.

And what's wrong with analyzing and scumreading at the same time?
Because
you offered to enter into a fucking 1v1 against me
. If you analyzed things and found them to be scum, sure. Battle. If you were analyzing things and were beginning to scumread me, you'd point it out but not risk it. Because know what a critical piece of logical, analytical play is? CAUTION. Which you have displayed the entire game. You've shown a lack of commitment to reads, being willing to reconsider them. Meaning that if you hadn't done your analysis? You'd have taken that stance on me.

Instead, you admit you didn't do the analysis...yet you also insist on trying to kill me anyway. From certain players, this might be normal. For a fucking self-admitted logical analytical player, it simply makes zero sense coming from town.

And I'm still considering my reads on you. You are the case of being a misunderstood townie getting kicked around because you refuse to defend yourself and keep provoking (attacking) your attackers. Also, I have not even shown you my analysis; don't rush to conclusions. In fact, my analysis can still be expanded with the introduction of your confrontational attacks on me.

Kill you? No. I wish to understand you. Yet you dismiss such an open outreach because you are convinced I am scum. Unfortunate. Perhaps I am expecting a high level of caution from other players (you) like I had shown.

Likewise, scum can manipulate the trust of others to benefit the team/their personal needs.
The difference, however, is clear. A scum player actively works to gain that trust and manipulates players. You've done that. A town player doesn't actively work to gain that trust and simply assumes it will be there. It was.

This applies to a difference in mafia philosophy/playstyle once again. I suggest you ignore the trust factor in debating against me.
Because fuck getting into a 1v1 wall war, I'm spoilering this shit.
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Post Post #3478 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:48 pm

Post by Clyton »

In post 3474, MastinSSK wrote:
In post 3472, Clyton wrote:
In post 3470, MastinSSK wrote:You ruthlessly continue your attacks on me, but you make no case to defend yourself, which I believe you have even said so earlier in the game.
Yep! And believe me. It's not because I can't defend myself. I can. It's because me being town is so fucking self-evident that I don't even really need to bother putting in the effort.

Yet how can you explain other people being so adamant about you being scum? You are clearly capable yet you refuse to resort to such a tactic. That is your downfall in the scenario you will be lynched, which can be easily possible if you keep that up.

What if your attacks doesn't break this defensive wall I put up?
If at first you don't succeed...
Try, try again.
Which, thanks to my role, I can.

(Or I could just get PV lynched and become obvtown because me bussing remains an abnormality in my play which while not impossible is still unusual.)

Unfortunately, people have already agreed that your role is not truly town-indicative. Why the suspicion on you would continue then? Your role is not established because it has not been tested. A killer has yet to target you today. Unless a the designated scum killer/town vig claims they tried to kill you and fail, your role will be speculation on the basis that you are trying to save your hide by roleclaiming.

Then you expose yourself to being attacked by others.
Sure do. Don't give a damn. See, that's the thing about town players on MS.net. (Again, gods, I wish I could scumread you for this, even though culture clash is far more likely the answer.) They don't care about others scumreading them. They care
about lynching scum
, and devote all their effort to it.

Culture Clash lel

You're really no threat and many have their accusations against you, some more hidden than mines.
I love it when scum call me not a threat. It really has a way of blowing up in their faces.

No comment needed here.

If I read your analysis and continued to make such a statement, then that would lead to this; exposing myself in the more public open. Yet I still did just that.
The problem is that you're insisting it doesn't exist, and have flat-out called me not a threat. You think you have the edge over me. You don't think pushing me will backfire, and you think that in a fight, you'll win because you think that no matter how town I look, your logic will be superior. That gives you plenty enough reason to 'risk' it, given that there's enough players potentially supporting you that you don't think you'd catch flak.

Oh, and by the way. A lot of your points against my points aren't direct counters, but are more misdirections. Wish I could explain that.

Never have I insisted such thing. Deliberately hiding this fact until revealing it later does not equate to someone not insisting such a fact.

In the purest form, a 1v1 is a great approach to investigating one another. You don't have to spill out everything in an all-out gambit like you are doing. You just have to realize I have the resources ten fold your entire stack.

Misdirections can be explained. Perhaps you are simply not capable of explaining yours yet.


(Not spoilering this one. 'Cause I didn't feel like it.)
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Post Post #3479 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:29 pm

Post by orcinus_theoriginal »

lb was a retard and didn't no lynch

more after this quick aram game
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Post Post #3480 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:28 pm

Post by Clyton »

Summary of MastinSSK
(lest anyone of you wants an analysis of all of his posts in his nearing 350 post-count ISO):

This misdirection that Mastin mentioned can be explained: I am focusing on his playstyle. Well of course, it is the reason why out of the multiple alignment reads I did on him, the townread stood out the most based on his playstyle. I generally stood with that read for the first 250 ISO posts of Mastin's, and looking back, I would continue to genuinely believe Mastin being town for those 250 posts. His playstyle and thinking between all his posts were overall consistent. Although I did mention flaws in his playstyles that simply goes against my philosophy of mafia/playstyle, that is fine; there were other flaws that went against his own words that he swore by, something of which is more glaring and that I cannot overlook. "The here and now?" Still references reads based on previous games on particular players (Kagura, AP, PV, etc.) and does not seem to be objectively reading them in the context of this game. Complains about people discrediting when he himself is using discrediting tactics against me (in my perspective at least). These are the most major ones, withholding the weak contradictions I found. I also had trouble figuring out if these posts were truly out of frustration as Mastin tried to defend with. I doubt there were any frustration posts due to his consistency with his playstyle and thinking for this game based on his role, till near the end of Day 1 (not as apparent as RBD's though).

So if his playstyle and thinking being apparent in all his posts (creating that consistency) is what made me see him town, then why did my read changed to him being scum? The reason is simple: the flaws that I cannot overlook (mentioned in the 1st paragraph) are showing. They are going against his thinking and playstyle more inconsistently, and these flaws are not because of mafia philosophy differences or playstyles. Although I have now moved Mastin up to the special "townies that are easily misunderstood to the public list" with an actual weak possibility of either alignment, he is still in fact, my strongest scumread. This should not be a surprise to anyone considering that I am a very cautious player and my placement of each people are based on such. I suppose why I was caught off-guard is simply because Mastin did not know how to handle himself once his (supposed) role was claimed to the public. What strategy is there left with his role revealed? Everything since thereforth has been purely based on adapting to the situations presented to him. With the amount of aggressors against him, he barked back just as loudly and aggressively. I admit two faults from me: hurriedly rushing this analysis of his newfound approach, and disregarding what made him town in the first place in respect to this different approach. Regardless, with the roleclaim he made, supposing it is real, Mastin has been made irrelevant to the game. The only way Mastin can be lynched if it was a policy lynch, but I doubt the others agree if they think Mastin is the most scummiest of their reads at the moment.

From his ISO posts 250+, I can see now and understand why the scumread on me, especially the stuff he posted on Day 2. Although it is not a strong scumread, it is probably his 2nd strongest scumread based on his list. Although I am always happy to defend myself to pass the time, I rather not replicate a bunch of noise from the previous day. Hence, my stance is that Mastin is for now weakscum/weaktown that is misunderstood by the public (something he admits but didn't really do much to defend himself because playstyle reasons). I feel this debate has made me see more of Mastin's playstyle and the perspective of enacting such a playstyle. I personally think it is not effective, but I will interact with any posts he makes that have some sort of genuine outreach to me and have some sort of relevancy to the topic at hand that can be found under that aggressive presence within all his posts.

Now Mastin, the real thing. Why the push against PV? I obviously don't see it if I'm asking you this. I am still trying to figure him out. Please refrain from saying "this is not town PV" because that is clearly going against your declaration of looking and dealing at the "here and now." Tell me from an objective stance you took upon, and just maybe, other people can see you as town assuming they agree with your push.
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Post Post #3481 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:27 am

Post by Titan »

In post 3479, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:lb was a retard and didn't no lynch

more after this quick aram game
r u srs
Half troll/Half wall.

I'm (Arthur) the wall. Don't let Tammy fool you. She trolls you w/o you even knowing! It's like you're in a constant state on mindfuck. RUN WHILE YOU CAN.
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Post Post #3482 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:02 am

Post by Breakfast With Sandy »

In post 3468, MastinSSK wrote:And again, there's a dissonance via insisting RBD is town yet not taking their read on me into consideration.
Only in an alternate universe where townies are always right and mafia games are always short.
In post 3468, MastinSSK wrote:Okay, then. Scenario. Orc's scum. He gets lynched and self-governs. He puts two obvtown players in.
What nonsense is this?

Scenario: Orci is scum. He therefore knows who is town and who isn't. He puts two
non-obvious
townies in. He also doesn't say in-thread that he's purposely gladiating a townread.

What happens Day 2?
Fuck all
.
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Post Post #3483 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:00 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

I submitted Kagura, Carbon Fiber, Peregrine.

Carbon Fiber is town.
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Post Post #3484 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:05 am

Post by Breakfast With Sandy »

VOTE: AP


Carbon Fiber claimed miller.
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Post Post #3485 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:13 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

See, why didnt you stop me yesterday when I said I was going to submit on CF? No one did. But you do now?
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Post Post #3486 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:14 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

So ya I didnt even submit on CF.

Im goingto wait on Kagura to get here before I real claim.
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Post Post #3487 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:17 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

In post 3148, AngryPidgeon wrote:im only submitting cf kagura and pv tonight fuck you.
In post 3155, CarbonFiber wrote:
In post 3152, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:AP

If you are a town cop, submit me, mastin and whoever you want to investigate

Simplest solution
Look, that's massively suboptimal since my best guess is that you, Mastin and AP are scum together. So, let's say I'm wrong and you are all town. You clearing each other isn't actually that much help.
Ffery, why do you think CF DIDNT FUCKING SAY ANYTHING WHEN I SAID THIS?
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Post Post #3488 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:18 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

Like. I thought about it. And there is no fucking way that CF wouldnt say jackshit when I declared intent to investigate a him, a MILLER.

So thanks for ruining his reaction to that, I still think hes just scum for declining to comment on the cop declaring intent to investigate him as a miller though. Cause thats not something a miller forgets.
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Post Post #3489 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:19 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 3483, AngryPidgeon wrote:I submitted Kagura, Carbon Fiber, Peregrine.

Carbon Fiber is town.
In post 3485, AngryPidgeon wrote:See, why didnt you stop me yesterday when I said I was going to submit on CF? No one did. But you do now?
In post 3486, AngryPidgeon wrote:So ya I didnt even submit on CF.

Im goingto wait on Kagura to get here before I real claim.
Yes, let's wait for Kagura to get here before you real-claim.

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Post Post #3490 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:22 am

Post by Titan »

lol
Half troll/Half wall.

I'm (Arthur) the wall. Don't let Tammy fool you. She trolls you w/o you even knowing! It's like you're in a constant state on mindfuck. RUN WHILE YOU CAN.
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Post Post #3491 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:23 am

Post by Titan »

too funny
Half troll/Half wall.

I'm (Arthur) the wall. Don't let Tammy fool you. She trolls you w/o you even knowing! It's like you're in a constant state on mindfuck. RUN WHILE YOU CAN.
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Post Post #3492 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:23 am

Post by Titan »

vote ap
Half troll/Half wall.

I'm (Arthur) the wall. Don't let Tammy fool you. She trolls you w/o you even knowing! It's like you're in a constant state on mindfuck. RUN WHILE YOU CAN.
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Post Post #3493 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:23 am

Post by PeregrineV »

@Mastin-
it appears being scum has fried your brain. You're degenerating into in-coherency.

If AP can talk his way out of his botched fakeclaim, I'll gladly lynch you instead.
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Post Post #3494 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:26 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

You guys are all idiots. I looked back over the thread at night and realized that my claimed targets didnt make any sense...and that no one PARTICULARLY CF tried to stop me from submitting a claimed miller when I said I was going to.

How in the fuck does CF AS A TOWN MILLER not see me say Im going to investigate him and NOT BAT A FUCKING EYE.
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Post Post #3495 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:27 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And yes I got a result on Kagura.
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Post Post #3496 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:27 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 3488, AngryPidgeon wrote:Like. I thought about it. And there is no fucking way that CF wouldnt say jackshit when I declared intent to investigate a him, a MILLER.

So thanks for ruining his reaction to that, I still think hes just scum for declining to comment on the cop declaring intent to investigate him as a miller though. Cause thats not something a miller forgets.
He would probably think you are forgetful scum. I think by claiming MILLER it would automatically say "Hey, I will detect as not-town because I am a miller."

Once claimed, I wouldn't say jackshit either. Your investigation of me would either mean you are incompetent as a player (12,684 posts say you are not) or scum trying really hard to get me lynched.

Which do you think
I
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Post Post #3497 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:29 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

In post 3496, PeregrineV wrote:He would probably think you are forgetful scum. I think by claiming MILLER it would automatically say "Hey, I will detect as not-town because I am a miller."
Yes Im sure he would say that if he were town, but he probably ISNT town jesus christ.

Good job defending your scum buddy though.
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Post Post #3498 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:29 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 3495, AngryPidgeon wrote:If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And yes I got a result on Kagura.
Then you should have said you investigated him and he came back TOWN. That would make him a liar, no?
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Post Post #3499 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:29 am

Post by Breakfast With Sandy »

In post 3495, AngryPidgeon wrote:If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And yes I got a result on Kagura.
Then why did you yell at me for not stopping you when you posted your plans?
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