Tales of You (Endgame)

[Kagura]

Forgot to fucking sign.

-b

[PeregrineV]

This is seriously not a town-PV.

A town-PV...how do I describe it? Is analytical. This PV? This PV...is hostile. A town-PV will have snark, but not of this nature, not derogatory. Not like this. Basically, this is too aggressive, forceful, hostile, and presumptuous to be a town-PV. Admittedly, I don't have much exposure to a scum-PV, but I've seen PV in a ton of his towngames. I've seen him run the gauntlet from lurker to active scumhunter, I've seen him play from beginnings and in middles and in ends, as town, and give actual effort. I've been exposed to how he treats the game as town, and this?

Simply isn't it. There's a lack of questions. Lack of not-knowing-things. Lack of lack of knowledge, you could say. He's not guessing. He's not theorizing. He's not analyzing. He's arguing. And I've never seen that from a town-PV. Ever.

I don't feel like this is hostile or derogatory. I actually feel like Mother Theresa here.

Lack of questions? No, i've pretty much asked each one about twice.

Lack of not-knowing-things? So I'm not town because I don't know things?
Elaborate on this one.

Lack of lack of knowledge? Isn't this the opposite of of the one above?

Guessing? Educated guessing, maybe.

Theorizing? My current theory is that with 11 out of 16 hydras, that the scumteam has probably 3 of them. See this for more details: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39517

Analyzing? See 1811.

Arguing? Maybe. The garbage I'm currently seeing isn't giving me reads, so maybe a good argument will.

[MastinSSK]

Tammy

,

please don't leave the game. Don't be discouraged from posting because of the load of fluff in the game. I was a little exasperated as well but I am trying to find out what is important and what isn't. You are literally one of the only players I am seeing eye to eye with that is also active and posting a lot of reasonable things that I can understand in the midst of all the other stuff to parse through.

Your posting is not bad and anyone who is critisizing it or complaining about it is either scum or can't read. If I have to pick one playerslot's posts I am looking forward to reading in this game, it would be yours. We both have very, very similar reads and I need your help in POEing the rest of the game. Get in here and play the game and we can win this by D4 after hopefully four scum lynches.

inb4 AngryPidgeon: "LOL buddying"

~ F-16

This post is actually insanely town.

Fuck any calling it null, and AP for calling it scum buddying.

This is townposting. Pure and simple. This is not manipulation. This is a sincere plea, for help in figuring things out, and addressed to a player that they respect dearly. I've been second-guessing my second-guess of my Carbon Fiber read, wondering if maybe he was actually scum. But no. He isn't. He's town, and I'm going to defend him to the death, now. Bump near the top of my townreads, in fact.

(Sometimes, all it really takes is one post.)

[AngryPidgeon]

AP entered and immediately buddied me with absolutely zero paranoia

Ok, Im gonna be honest. Wayyy before I replaced in, I read P1 of this game offhandedly for no reason. I read that opening post by SSK (thought it was you) and told cabd way before I even replaced in "Lol, MastinSSK is basically conftown for that post".

Paranoia doesnt come in one post. I called you out in my entry so I could see how you specifically would react (TO READ YOU) and you basically just convinced me that this was GoW mafia mastin tunneling me for fuck knows why despite me being pretty town. You are seriously morphing events to fit what you want to see and you ARE tunneling. You can tell Mac you aren't "Death tunneling" but thats a pretty bad subconscious dodge of just denying that you are tunneling cause I think you knwo that you are doing exactly that, regardless of your alignment.

Saying that I dont want to work with you is just straight up wrong. My entry post was literally just me trying to inert myself into the game by ctrl c + v'ing a lot of old jokes together and seeing what happened. Im not even going to pretend I had a definite thing I was looking for, cause I didnt. It contributed to my early scumread of BRO (now waffling on since) and townread of you.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fuck any calling it null, and AP for calling it scum buddying.

What the FUCK. I SAID NO FUCKING THING ABOUT THAT POST.

THE ONE INSTANCE WHERE I -DID- CALL THEM OUT , YOU AGREED:

AND I NEVER EVEN USED THE WORD BUDDYING FFS.

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

Actually, he is. I scumread him for it.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: MastinSSK

Over it. You are the weakest link.

[MastinSSK]

Except you flatout admitted that you dont have a good reason for reading me as scum right here (well admitted that you didnt have one UNTIL here):

I reall do expect SOME level of competence from town-mastin.

Okay. How's this. I think I finally have it. The scumtell that describes AP. AP's scumtell is, put in simplest terms, "You can't

prove

I'm scum, nyehnyeh." And that's what he's doing.

Good fucking god, you're a misrepping scumbag.

My iso has been filled with reasons your slot has been a scumread since before you were in it, and continued into when you replaced in, and well after it. Yes, not a concrete scumtell. Because I didn't have the scumtell locked down, didn't have the wording to describe it, didn't have something that captured the essence of your scumplay. That post was when I finally got the way to succinctly sum it up.

That doesn't invalidate the

literal fucking MOUNTAIN of reasons I had posted before then

. (To call it just a 'wall' of reasons would be inadequate to explain the scale. There's only so large you can make a wall before it stops being a wall and becomes a mountain.)

[AngryPidgeon]

You have done nothing the ENTIRE FUCKING GAME but take potshots at me about the DUMBEST FUCKING SHIT IMAGINABLE (QT slip? Remember when you actually fucking typed that and was like 'yeah, hmm, I'm gonna hit submit on that that seems like a good post')

but I'm not interested in talking to you? even though every post you've made about me is 'bork sure looks like scum' behind my back?

Yes I dropped it after like 2 posts because I could tell that no one was going to give a shit, but you bring it back up later to discredit me in general out of the blue and have yet to make any attempt to understand me calling out other things about you I dont like. And saying Ive done nothing the ENTIRE GAME EXCEPT TUNNEL YOU (wee caps) is hilariously wrong because Ive been pushing CF more than you and talking about BRO/mastin way more than you. Its like you are just along for the ride here.

--

I'll tell you what. I -could- see this upset-ness over the QT thing affecting you as town to the degree that we are where we are.

So lets jsut put the pitchforks aside and talk for like a little bit.

Why did you call mastin a "rock"? Shes really like your #1 townread this game? Why? What do you think about her FoxHound push?

[AngryPidgeon]

Good fucking god, you're a misrepping scumbag.

Thats ok, you called my reaction to CF's post about Tammy scummy despite it not existing. You are way ahead of me in this department.

[MastinSSK]

Im not going to go quote shit from my ISO right now, but I HAVE been caring about what you say.

Caring, sure. You'd care about my posting regardless of either of our alignments because it's important.

I didn't say you didn't cared, though. I said there's no appreciation in there. Just putting me down. Deriding me. Dismissing me. Rejecting my efforts, and basically no attempt at synching up. There's "you suck" and such, but no effort to understand me. No effort to try and get me to understand you.

[MastinSSK]

What the FUCK. I SAID NO FUCKING THING ABOUT THAT POST.

'Course not. But Carbon Fiber's someone you've been calling out, and I was making a joke about how you were likely going to be calling him out on it like he said you would.

[MastinSSK]

But Carbon Fiber's someone you've been calling out, and I was making a joke about how you were likely going to be calling him out on it like he said you would.

Like, really. That should be pretty freakin' obvious that I was referring to that, and not to a nonexistent future post that'd be after that. Something not entirely serious which still conveys my thoughts on the matter. There's no way you'd legitimately read that as me saying you said that when no post saying it exists.

[AngryPidgeon]

What the FUCK. I SAID NO FUCKING THING ABOUT THAT POST.

'Course not. But Carbon Fiber's someone you've been calling out, and I was making a joke about how you were likely going to be calling him out on it like he said you would.

Yes and you agreed with my suspicion on them for that post and are now posturing about my suspicion on them for that reason and calling me out for it. I cant tell if you are joking or not and it looked pretty serious to me when you posted it. Either way I dont like it though.

[MastinSSK]

Yes and you agreed with my suspicion on them for that post.

Except I didn't. Scumread. Past tense. And I wasn't agreeing. I was commenting. My read on them had changed, was changing, and has continued to change.

Now it's not. It's town. Not moving from that.

[AngryPidgeon]

And I wasn't agreeing. I was commenting.

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

Actually, he is. I scumread him for it.

[MastinSSK]

...Which is still a comment.
"Yes, he is cozying up to Tammy. I scumread him [at the time] for it."

That's kinda self-explanatory.

[MastinSSK]

(Was, is, and will continue to buddy, no doubt.
...And I have no problem with this.)

[MastinSSK]

Oh, I suppose on an extremely technical note, that's something I did agree with AP on for a section of the game. Before he came in. Thus not actually agreeing with him.

Butyeah. Tammy's town, F-16's town. Throw in Rancid and Mac, and you've got a solid townbloc core. (There are townreads who don't make the cut for townbloc material and players who would make the cut if my townread was strong enough, but working on it. For instance, would love to have Kagura and Stalin inside. Kagura's kinda close but needs to be refined, Stalin is a bit more iffy.)

[Red Gyarados]

Trusting me blindly when I call someone town is usually not a great idea because

they're manipulating me specifically.

I've done this. As town.

(I've also done it as scum, though. )

RG - What are you're thoughts on mastin and LB?

Don't know if this was ever addressed by my other head, but I don't remember much of what happened the first 30 pages or so. I kinda just glazed over all the meta discussion Falcon was pumping into the thread and stopped caring for a while. My aversion to catching up also seems to be proportional to how much I have to read in order to do it. I had townreads somewhere but I need my Skype to see it. I think the main difference between my reads and Notty's was that I had Mac as town and CF higher than Mastin. My scumreads are just 'bleh.'

I have some concerns about LB as expressed by Nacho on this page. He says he's familiar with most of this playerslist but doesn't seem to understand how they play. I also have no idea who LB is or if I've ever played with him before.

Aside from the raging thing from (SSK?) against Falcon, Mastin is a small townread for me.

Hey, Nacho.

Forgetting something?

Maybe a read on a certain crimson creature

Maybe including the word "obvtown" in it

I don't understand why Notty posted this. Nacho clearly reached out to us first and it wasn't a one way street. I'm wondering if these pages were why Notty was sending me townreads on Nacho over Skype.

This in particular strikes me as town because Mastin doesn't give a fuck about forming processes for why he's going back and forth, makes it feel more natural.

I find Mastin to be a pretty positional player with his reads. Even if he doesn't clearly explain where they come from, I tend to be able to figure out where they're coming from. Usually when they make sense to me, he's town. When they don't, he's scum.

(Us, Titan, Kagura, MastinSSK)
(Beliffery, CF, RBD)

(Town)
(Not full town yet)

This is Notty's reads list. Up to this point I would have Titan, Kagura, CF, Mac as town. RBD/Mastin weaker town. Maybe Wood. I'm leaving ffery to Notty. I also think Orci could be town.

Notty refuses my reads. I don't know why.

ALSO, Bro didn't post the player list when he checked in to say he's reading and that lack of posting the player list is what moved you ahead of Peregrine as a scum read!

What?

Also, I think I remember seeing you reply to me on some page somewhere. Cabd never sent my main account a role PM. I think he just hates my slot.

(Where are the other 10?)

No idea. But I don't know why you're asking this considering you should know how both of us operate by now.

This whole bacon quote strip is bad.

Oh really? Why? Ffery seemed to enjoy it. And hell, they're even overruling you on it.

@Beliffery: Actually, why are you two overruling it?

Like, it means that everyone should be realizing we're town, even if they don't have concrete reasons for it.

Townish. And you'll remain in that pile until I get those weird vibes I always get when you're scum.

Fuckballs

?

And reveal their age at the start of day

Even if your claim is true, how does confirming it make you town? I still think a lot of the flavor is just a distraction.

The majority if this game has declared their town game and scum game to be so obvious the rest should be able to tell instantly.

Some people are more obvious at alignment telling than others. Tammy is one of these people. As for the others, it's just 'meh.' Notty was obvtowning our slot for a while, but I don't know where he went.

We're def 1v1ing someone tomorrow,
Don't care if ye call us trolls,
No fucks will be given,
LolOLOLoLOloLoloL

Can you only 1v1 someone you cop? Or can you target different people?

He actually did not read it, which turned out to be the case.

I'm actually leaning towards this being the likelier possibility. I didn't notice it either and I keep forgetting the size of this playerlist.

But regardless of what you think actually happened, I think 4 scum in a 17 player game is pretty standard. So I don't really find this to be a townslip.

RG, do you have a solitary read that is even slightly controversial?

Not that I know of. And define controversial and why it would tell you our alignment. Why?

/39

[MastinSSK]

Oh, and for clarity because apparently it's not obvious:
No, my read on Stalin is not 'iffy townread'. They're much, much lower on my townlist than I would prefer, and would be among the candidates for scum if there were any to be within my townread. But they'd be at the rear end of that list, because they're still solidly on the townlist. Just...not as strongly as I feel they should be. They're a townread. Not strong. Not weak. Some things strengthen it, others weaken it. Thus, the iffy bit. Because if they were townbloc material, it'd be them getting stronger rather than weaker. The opposite hasn't happened, but is still a concern of mine. Stalin just...isn't leaving a strong impression, is the best way I have to word it. Strength of reads-wise, they'd be at around the Gyarados level, perhaps ahead or perhaps behind. Which is slightly above LB and Clyton honestly, so basically...highest-tier town that's not in townbloc is the read on them, if that makes sense.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

heh.

We're working though our own townbloc PoE atm. I think we townbloc from a different philosophy than you do. A strong town read doesn't automatically equate to a townbloc ticket from my perspective.

While beli is scumreading you, I probably won't be trying to build consensus with you. And while your reads and play are as chaotic as they've been since AP joined the game and DespBro became active, I wouldn't be able to build consensus with you regardless of beli's read.

[Breakfast With Sandy]

actually, beli doesn't townbloc at all. He's going along with my efforts in that direction because he's a dead game sport.

[MastinSSK]

A strong town read doesn't automatically equate to a townbloc ticket from my perspective.

Nor mine. Tammy and F-16 are in the bloc not because they're townreads, but because they're strong players capable of working with others in the townbloc...and are also townreads.

Similarity in reads would make a townbloc consisting of...Rancid, basically, and that being it.

[MastinSSK]

('Course, a detail you mighta picked up on is that I'm actually outside my townbloc, since part of townblocking is voting together, and, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell......)

[AngryPidgeon]

Id say something about Kagura being Thor665 in the townblocks here, but Im gonna try and be civil to Bork for the rest of the Day.

[AngryPidgeon]

('Course, a detail you mighta picked up on is that I'm actually outside my townbloc, since part of townblocking is voting together, and, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell......)

Voting mastin > voting WITH mastin.